Colorado High - Soilless - LED/CFL - Dutch Dope - 2014

[David Bowman]

Day 35 since the start of germination and while the kids appear to be perfectly green and healthy, with no signs of any deficiencies or other issues, they are growing sooo slooowly. The grow environment is rock solid with temperatures between 70° and 85° and RH between 40% and 60%. I'm running the same light set-up as my last grow with the LEDs a few inches closer perhaps but everything else is the same. Not including the first pair of true leaves, each kid has 5 nodes and is working on their 6th node. The tallest kid is only 4" in height, 7" in width and is ~16" away from the LEDs, the shortest kid is just over 2" in height, 4" in width and is ~18" away from the LEDs. I fed them a total of a quart of nutrient solution containing Growology Step 2, SNS 604A and Cal-Mag Plus, all at full strength, with no issues. Pots are still not dry enough for another feeding. I've decided not to top them as I'm concerned that any shock right now might stunt them even further.

Group shot of the kids on day 35 since the start of germination -

Profile and overhead shots of the B/L kid on day 35 since the start of germination -

Profile and overhead shots of the B/R kid on day 35 since the start of germination -

Profile and overhead shots of the F/C kid on day 35 since the start of germination -

I wonder if the increased temperatures and supplemental CO2 of my previous three grows did more than I thought and I'm now seeing what a more "normal" environment looks like. Still though, only 4" high after 5 weeks from seed, something just doesn't seem right. My first thought is genetics since all of the kids appear to be similarly affected. However, if it is environmental in nature, I still haven't figured out what it might be that's causing this slow growth. My main concern at this point is that the kids maximize vegetative growth prior to showing gender later this month. Perhaps they are in for one helluva a stretch period early in flowering. Any way you look at it this is quite unusual especially as this is the tallest strain I've grown to date.

 

[yuyo]

they do seem small
hopefully they will spurt for you
this may sound backwards but what about moving the lights up
make them stretch to it a bit maybe? like 2 - 4 inches
just a few days to a week then move back down?
i dunno maybe i'm the one stretching ...for answers doh!
it seems some strains take a bit to get used to the led
are you utilizing your cfl side lights?
no matter the case lets hope it gets resolved
maybe these are just some finicky girls
take care and good luck

 

[David Bowman]

Yeah, I'm using my CFL sidelighting. I can only adjust in 5" increments given my drip tray support system and I guess I could lower the drip tray but I'm concerned about getting the kids too far away from the LEDs like last time. Interestingly enough, they do seem to be growing more lately than they were earlier so that would indicate to me that they don't need moving away from the LEDs. Maybe they are spending their time building a good root system which will support explosive growth later. This is unusually difficult to diagnose and treat this time around, especially when the only problem is overall plant size, as they are on track node-wise being on their 6th node and continuing to grow.

 

[b.real]

looking good

if I were you I would keep that led unit 12" away from the canopy. what did you yield from you cfl grow and what did you yield from your led grow? I remember there being more watts during your cfl grow so that's a big factor.

 

[David Bowman]

Really? That close? I yielded 0.50 oz./plant 1st grow, 1.00+ oz./plant 2nd grow, 0.75 oz./plant 3rd grow which had less than half the wattage during flowering than the first 2 grows. I expect that the lack of sufficient lighting, as well as its distance to the canopy, were the major causes of the reduced harvest last time.

 

[theengineer]

my P300 is 12" above the plants, and the P450 is about 18", only due to to fresh 12/12 from seed plants having gone in recently.

 

[b.real]

if I get an led unit I plan to run it 12" away from the plants, maybe even closer. as long as it's not too close where light is being blocked from the rest and or burning the plant I think it'll be fine. the closer the higher the lux the higher the yield. cronic's plants touch his led unit.

 

[David Bowman]

This being a reflector LED, which has lenses which direct and focus the light energy, I know that the spectrum doesn't fully blend until a certain distance from the LEDs, something like 8"-12" if I remember correctly. If the plants start growing better the taller they get, then I just might have to change my canopy to LED range from 15"-20" down to 10"-15".

 

[b.real]

oh yeah, that that double lens technology. regardless, I think the plant will grab the light no matter what. that's what they do best 12" sounds like a sweet spot as long as all the plants are getting light.

 

[David Bowman]

b.real. I'm going to let them grow to approximately 10" from the LEDs and then drop the drip tray 5" and see how they do in that range.

 

[David Bowman]

Day 40 from the start of germination and the kids are slowly getting with the program with each of the them growing at least an 1" over the last 5 days. They look very happy and healthy to me so as long as they keep on growing, I don't really care about the pace. I'm most definitely looking for quality over quantity this go around so better is better than bigger.

Group shot of the kids on day 40 since the start of germination -

Single shot of the Back/Left kid on day 40 since the start of germination -

Single shot of the Back/Right kid on day 40 since the start of germination -

Single shot of the Front/Center kid on day 40 since the start of germination -

I fed them a total of one half gallon of Growology Step 2, SNS 604A, Cal-Mag Plus and molasses a few days ago and they have responded well. They are now between 14" and 16" from the LEDs and I'm still letting them grow up towards the lights some more before I lower the drip tray. I hope all is well with you and yours.

 

[b.real]

they look awesome man! I think they're ready for some water. without water they can't grow.

also I've been doing a lot of reading about leds and the lens doesn't determine where the light blends or anything (as some are thinking/claiming). the degree that the lens is angled determines how the light exits the fixture. a 90 degree lens will shoot light directly downward while a 120 degree lens bends the light into something like a floodlight. as long as the plants aren't burning and the light isn't getting blocked by the top leaves you can get leds close for those needed lumens. some people even cut the top fan leaves off to allow light to get to the lower fan leaves.

happy growing and

 

[David Bowman]

The pots are still heavy and it's only been a few days since I last watered. The surface of this medium dries quickly I've found and it is easy to over water thinking the remainder below is just as dry.

 

[b.real]

ahh, gotcha.. as long as they have water. without water you'll have halted growth.

 

[David Bowman]

 

[David Bowman]

That is very interesting b.real about the LEDs, I knew about the light angles but not about how close you can get them. I think you're right and I've fallen for some early LEDs myths that I've picked up over time. BTW, you were right, yet again, about the kids needing some water. I still cannot get this determining when to water based on pot weight thing mastered. I double-checked with my moisture meter and sure enough they were dry. I'm giving them another half gallon of nutrient solution as I type. Thanks so much for keeping your sharp eyes on my grow. It is greatly appreciated!

 

[b.real]

no problem man! I noticed the soil pulling away from the containers so I thought they looked dryish.

 

[David Bowman]

I noticed that too within a day or two of watering so I didn't think it meant that much.

 

[KingJohnC]

I have used moisture meters in the past but now I place 1 finger 2" into the medium and feel how moist the medium is and this method as well as frequency of watering to determine when I should optimally re water my plants.

 

[David Bowman]

Thanks KJC!