Colombian Andes Greenhouse SIP CBD Auto Grow

[cbdhemp808]

Yeah, I have lots of questions also!
This is "super" soil, right? So even if we mix it 50-50 with rice hulls or perlite or whatever, you would think that it would no longer register hypothetically 200% of normal (or whatever), and now it would only register 100% of normal (or whatever)?
So how come it registers nada to muy poco, even for regular garden soil??

Maybe the product you got really wasn't super soil. Or the test wasn't accurate.

I can take a second sample with a larger sample, and test again tomorrow.

You could use your test kit on some other potting soil with a known NPK, to verify your test kit.

If your test was accurate, then I think the only explanation is the soil was billed as something it wasn't.

I can hypothetically send it out to the university for analysis, and we might see results in a few weeks.
But for supersoil to have NO nitrogen???
(Does not compute!)

Sounds like a good idea, if not too expensive.

 

[InTheShed]

At this point, my understanding is that at least ideally, I want a flat canopy.

What Azi said...mostly related to distance to the light in addition to increasing the number of tops. The tops thing is the only thing relevant when you grow in the greenhouse.

Is it just me, or do those look like different plants?
These here look way more sativa to me than the plant in the picture, and they look way more sativa (or perhaps way more photo) than anything else in the grow room, and they are still growing.

Most autos are a cross of at least 2 varieties (the original photoperiod with a cannabis ruderalis plant), and most originals are a cross of two or more varieties.

I have also heard that sometimes certain autos are not exactly stable, and will "go photo" on you.

Add up all those varieties and the number of potential phenotypes from the same seed batch increase greatly. It takes quite a few generations for the breeder to stabilize an auto variety, and many (most?) don't take the time to do that.

Nitrogen portrait: I am not sure, but does it look like N1 deficient? Phosphorus portrait: is it P1 Deficient? And Potassium portrait: is it also K1 deficient?

Did you use distilled or purified water as it mentions? Hard to believe there's virtually nothing in that soil, like it's coco or something!

I guess what I want to say is that I am trying to figure out the trimming principles and strategies for lollipopping.
Yeah, thanks! @InTheShed said he also lollipops, so maybe he will know what to do. (There are a LOT more sub-branches than I am used to!)

I don't lollipop autos because a) I don't want to stress them, and b) I have no idea when a week before flower is! That's when I do my photoperiod plants.

On all my plants I do take off the tiny budlets that grow down below the main canopy, but not on a leggy sativa since that might describe 80% of the flowers on the plant!

 

[Azimuth]

Yeah, I have lots of questions also!
This is "super" soil, right? So even if we mix it 50-50 with rice hulls or perlite or whatever, you would think that it would no longer register hypothetically 200% of normal (or whatever), and now it would only register 100% of normal (or whatever)?
So how come it registers nada to muy poco, even for regular garden soil??

Right. It should show  some level of nutrients. I can see a testing of coco registering nothing, but any mix should show some levels.

But just as a thought, and maybe this is really reaching, but is it possible that the activated carbon ate everything when I mixed the soil with water, to put it into solution?

No. The carbon acts like a sponge absorbing nutrients either when you pre-charge it or by taking it from the soil, but it's still there until the plant eats it up. You've had enough time that the blank carbon should have absorbed all it could, leaving anything else available for the testing. I suppose if you used an excess amount of carbon maybe. How much  did you use relative to the whole?

That's why I say something doesn't add up. Is the test kit way past its expiration date by any chance?

 

[CBDMed]

Maybe the product you got really wasn't super soil. Or the test wasn't accurate.

Yeah, it would not certify anything down here. But it was components for supersoil from a known grow shop in Bogotá, so I would think the components were legit. (They looked and felt just like the Subcool's components I used years ago in the States.)

You could use your test kit on some other potting soil with a known NPK, to verify your test kit.

That is a great idea, except I am not sure I have any, hahaha!

If your test was accurate, then I think the only explanation is the soil was billed as something it wasn't.

Yeah, except it was not soil, but components.

Sounds like a good idea, if not too expensive.

It should be affordable, but it may be several weeks. The ground gave way under the Panamericana (I-5), and they say it may take them 7 months to repair it, so gas is hard to get now. So I am not sure how practical a soil sample will be for months.

 

[CBDMed]

What Azi said...mostly related to distance to the light in addition to increasing the number of tops. The tops thing is the only thing relevant when you grow in the greenhouse.

That seems like a helpful summation. Thanks!

Most autos are a cross of at least 2 varieties (the original photoperiod with a cannabis ruderalis plant), and most originals are a cross of two or more varieties.

Right.

Add up all those varieties and the number of potential phenotypes from the same seed batch increase greatly. It takes quite a few generations for the breeder to stabilize an auto variety, and many (most?) don't take the time to do that.

Right.

Did you use distilled or purified water as it mentions? Hard to believe there's virtually nothing in that soil, like it's coco or something!

Ahh, no, I did not use distilled or purified. Sorry!! I used the normal creek water that comes out of the tap, after it has sat for 24 hours (habit, because they do not chlorinate the creek water here, but I keep a small reservoir inside, for when they shut off the water, during downpours).

I don't lollipop autos because a) I don't want to stress them, and b) I have no idea when a week before flower is! That's when I do my photoperiod plants.

Yeah, well, when she starts putting out pistils, she is starting to move into flower, so I figure that is the time I want to trim up any remaining larf.
Now I just have to figure out how to trim the stem shoots on Afghan Mass XXL so I don't trim away all of the buds!!

On all my plants I do take off the tiny budlets that grow down below the main canopy, but not on a leggy sativa since that might describe 80% of the flowers on the plant!

Got it.
Thanks!

 

[CBDMed]

Right. It should show  some level of nutrients. I can see a testing of coco registering nothing, but any mix should show some levels.

Yeah, I would think!!

No. The carbon acts like a sponge absorbing nutrients either when you pre-charge it or by taking it from the soil, but it's still there until the plant eats it up. You've had enough time that the blank carbon should have absorbed all it could, leaving anything else available for the testing.

Ok, good to know! Thanks!

I suppose if you used an excess amount of carbon maybe. How much  did you use relative to the whole?

Oy... I don't really remember (sorry!). It has been a long time. Maybe I used a half gallon in 100 gallons of supersoil, and that was before it was cut with rice hulls.
I don't really remember, but safe to say probably much less than 1% of the total mix.
I just have a hard time believing a half gallon of activated charcoal could eat up all of the other NPK in that batch of supersoil.

That's why I say something doesn't add up. Is the test kit way past its expiration date by any chance?

Great question, Azi!
I am looking all over for an expiration date, and don't see one.
"Ruh-roh..."

 

[CBDMed]

CBD, it seems like a good question, but it also seems hard to say at this point.
There is clearly some kind of deficiency, as I am having to add a lot of dog water N and also PK 13-14 to these SIPs.
However, to look on the bright side, I only have to add P, K, and N! (Haha!)

So yes, it would seem that there is some sort of deficiency with this soil, but SIPs are also very demanding, and it also seems rather UN-reasonable for 50% supersoil to register "depleted" on an N-P-K test.
(So, good question!)

 

[Azimuth]

Oy... I don't really remember (sorry!). It has been a long time. Maybe I used a half gallon in 100 gallons of supersoil, and that was before it was cut with rice hulls.
I don't really remember, but safe to say probably much less than 1% of the total mix.
I just have a hard time believing a half gallon of activated charcoal could eat up all of the other NPK in that batch of supersoil.

That's not enough to move the needle to zero even if completely empty and with weak soil. I use 12.5% (roughly ) of biochar in my mix, but I do charge it prior to mixing.

 

[CBDMed]

That's not enough to move the needle to zero even if completely empty and with weak soil. I use 12.5% (roughly ) of biochar in my mix, but I do charge it prior to mixing.

Oh, so biochar is like a one-time single-use disposable battery that you charge up (in worm castings or whatever), and then add that to your grow, to be spent one time?
And it powers that grow (like a single-use battery), and then from there it is just is part of the soil after that?
Or do I misunderstand?

 

[CBDMed]

From The Volga (where I bought the test kits):
Question: What is the shelf life for this kit? I have a five year old kit
Answer: 12-18 months

So it seems the kit could very well be past its pull date???
That would be a bummer, because there is no pull date on the package, and it will be hard to send it back from here...

 

[CBDMed]

Hey CBD, good idea here:

You could use your test kit on some other potting soil with a known NPK, to verify your test kit.

Hmm.....
If the goal is just to verify the kit, could I test with some liquid fertilizer (algae based)?
It is a dark color, but I could dilute it to normal fertigation strength, and then test.

Alternately, I could test the dog water, 1:10 like you suggested. That is mostly clear.

And I don't have known NPK values on soil, but I do have decent canna soil from Bogotá. It should have some values to it!

 

[Azimuth]

Oh, so biochar is like a one-time single-use disposable battery that you charge up (in worm castings or whatever), and then add that to your grow, to be spent one time?
And it powers that grow (like a single-use battery), and then from there it is just is part of the soil after that?
Or do I misunderstand?

Nope, exactly the opposite. It's like a rechargeable battery that you can charge before first use. Then, when the soil nutes run low the microbes can go get some from that stored up in the batteries. Then, when you fertigate some of what you put in fills the batteries back up. Forever. Like literally thousands of years.

 

[CBDMed]

I don't have natural light until morning, but Just to get an idea, I thought I would sample my daily VEG liquiferts that I use for the SIPs.
I diluted dog water 1:10 (for N) and added:
1 tablespoon of BioNova PK-13/14
1 tablespoon of BioNova Grow (3-2-4)
This was in 5 liters of creek water that has been sitting in a reservoir for a couple of days.
Ten minutes later, and here are the results:

Sorry it is not natural light, but this is the best I can do at this hour.
From right to left, first Nitrogen (N):

Then Potassium (P) in the middle:

Then on the left, Potash (K):

@cbdhemp808 , how does that look to you?

 

[Azimuth]

Ofer.

 

[CBDMed]

Hahahaha!

Ofer.

 

[Azimuth]

Can you run straight up dog water?

 

[CBDMed]

Can you run straight up dog water?

Con gusto. Only, I switched the order back to left-to-right.
There was a lot of settling, so I shook right before the photo, and then after 5 minutes more.

First N on the left at 10 minutes and shake:

Then N after five more minutes of settling (after the shake):

Then P at 10 minutes and shake, with a lot of sediment:

Then P five minutes after the shake:

Then K at 10 minutes and shake:

And then finally K after settling for five more minutes:

What thinks you?

 

[InTheShed]

No N in the pee, no P in the P, and no K in the K? Sounds like either a test issue or a water issue.

 

[CBDMed]

No N in the pee, no P in the P, and no K in the K? Sounds like either a test issue or a water issue.

Water issue as in I need to get distilled or demineralized water?
Or what kind of water issue?

 

[InTheShed]

Making sure you follow the directions to the letter in order to eliminate the river water as a variable. There must be a reason they include that or no reason to mention it.