Colombian Andes Greenhouse SIP CBD Auto Grow

[CBDMed]

Ahhh.... they came just as I was getting ready to print it out.

He said earlier he has never built a greenhouse before, but today he said he is copying the other greenhouses in the valley.
He said there are other greenhouses with even less slope, and even wider spacing between the supports, and they are around for a long time. (I have seen some of them, and yes, there are).
I know what @Cide Hamete Benengeli and @cbdhemp808 are saying is very true! I have seen that kind of stretching before. However, if he is copycatting existing greenhouses in the valley then I think this may have to do for temporary.

Next time I hope to have a good plan, and build it strong, with arches like what @cbdhemp808 suggests.
The way things go here, if you have a good plan, and clear instructions, then everything can flow. But if you ask someone to take the headache away and he copies what is done locally, then I think that is what you have for now (unless you want to lose a good working relationship, which is hard to replace here).
Thanks! Got to run.

 

[Cide Hamete Benengeli]

Bueno, primo colombiano... Yo sinceramente no conozco invernaderos de film de plástico de techo plano y totalmente horizontal, que aguanten el peso de una buena lluvia, y no digamos ya si graniza o nieva (desconozco a que altura estás): el plástico se hunde bajo el peso y las uniones entre plástico y estructura acaban cediendo, o rasgando el plástico... Otra cosa es que pongas el film plástico plano, pero dándole unos pocos grados de pendiente (aunque a la vista parezca casi horizontal), al tener un lado de la estructura un poco más de altura que la parte contraria... Pero yo tampoco soy ningún experto en invernaderos, también te lo advierto...

Well, Colombian cousin... I honestly don't know greenhouses made of plastic film with a flat roof and completely horizontal, that can withstand the weight of a good rain, let alone if it hails or snows (I don't know how high you are): plastic it sags under the weight and the joints between the plastic and the structure end up giving way, or tearing the plastic... Another thing is that you lay the plastic film flat, but giving it a few degrees of slope (although it appears almost horizontal to the eye), when have one side of the structure a little higher than the other side... But I'm not an expert in greenhouses either, I warn you too...

 

[CBDMed]

Bueno, primo colombiano... Yo sinceramente no conozco invernaderos de film de plástico de techo plano y totalmente horizontal, que aguanten el peso de una buena lluvia, y no digamos ya si graniza o nieva (desconozco a que altura estás): el plástico se hunde bajo el peso y las uniones entre plástico y estructura acaban cediendo, o rasgando el plástico... Otra cosa es que pongas el film plástico plano, pero dándole unos pocos grados de pendiente (aunque a la vista parezca casi horizontal), al tener un lado de la estructura un poco más de altura que la parte contraria... Pero yo tampoco soy ningún experto en invernaderos, también te lo advierto...

Hola @Cide Hamete Benengeli ,
Sé que lo que dices es verdad. Pero el techo no es completamente plano.
Mide 4,5 m de ancho y 30 cm de altura.
Para mí no es mucho.
¡Para mí, tengo mucha más confianza en el diseño de @cbdhemp808 !
Estoy atrapado en una situación en la que tengo muy poco tiempo y necesito ayuda confiable.
Comenzó de una manera, y si lo microgestiono y trato de decirle que lo haga de otra manera, puede pensar fácilmente que soy complicado y que ya no quiere trabajar para mí. (Porque los buenos siempre tienen más trabajo del que pueden hacer).
Creo que está tratando de imitar otras estructuras que están aquí en el valle.
Entonces puedo probarlo, y si no funciona podemos hacer que funcione.
La próxima vez construiremos uno bueno como el que tiene CBDHemp.
¡Muchísimas gracias por la preocupación! Es muy amable.

Well, Colombian cousin... I honestly don't know greenhouses made of plastic film with a flat roof and completely horizontal, that can withstand the weight of a good rain, let alone if it hails or snows (I don't know how high you are): plastic it sags under the weight and the joints between the plastic and the structure end up giving way, or tearing the plastic... Another thing is that you lay the plastic film flat, but giving it a few degrees of slope (although it appears almost horizontal to the eye), when have one side of the structure a little higher than the other side... But I'm not an expert in greenhouses either, I warn you too...

Hola Cide,
I know what you are saying is true. But the roof is not completely flat.
It is 4.5m wide, and there is 30cm of rise.
To me it is not a lot.
To me, I have much more confidence in @cbdhemp808 's design!
I am just caught in a situation where I have very little time, and need trustable help.
He started one way, and if I micromanage him, and try to tell him to do it another way, he can easily think I am complicated, and not want to work for me anymore. (Because the good ones always have more work than they can do.)
I think he is trying to imitate other structures that are here in the valley.
So I can test it, and if it does not work we can make it work.
Next time we will build a good one like CBD has.
Thanks for the kind concern! It is very appreciated.

 

[Azimuth]

Why can't he just add some extra bamboo stilts on top of one side so it is maybe a foot or two taller than the other. Then stretch the supports between the two giving you instant slope. Not as good as cbd's hoops but could be built in without too much fuss.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Ahh, ok. Perfect!

Thanks, @Buds Buddy ~!
Still praying for your wife.

We expect her to pass today. She's barely hanging on. Thank you for your prayers.

 

[Cide Hamete Benengeli]

Why can't he just add some extra bamboo stilts on top of one side so it is maybe a foot or two taller than the other. Then stretch the supports between the two giving you instant slope. Not as good as cbd's hoops but could be built in without too much fuss.

Efectivamente, y tal como ya le dije a nuestro amigo @el gringuito justo antes, esa es la solución mas sencilla, si no puede usar los típicos arcos curvos... Un poco más complicado sería hacer un "techo" de dos aguas en forma triangular...:

Indeed, and as I already told our friend @el gringuito just before, that is the easiest solution, if you cannot use the typical curved arches... A little more complicated would be to make a "roof" with two waters in the form triangular...:

...Pero quizá nuestro amigo se esté complicando demasiado, y no necesite ni invernadero...: @el gringuito, ¿que temperaturas en °C máximas y mínimas aproximadas suelen darse en tu zona durante la temporada en la que piensas cultivar? ¿A que altitud estás?: Si te sirve de referencia, piensa que yo cultivo sin invernadero en mi sierra sativas de larga floración hasta Diciembre (el Junio-Julio del hemisferio Sur), a 39° de latitud Norte y casi 900 metros de altitud... Y otra cosa que debes tener en cuenta es la resistencia al viento y el efecto "vela naútica" que cualquier film de plástico tendrá antes vientos fuertes, y más sobre una azotea... no me vayas a salir volando, mi primo, je...

...But perhaps our friend is getting too complicated, and he doesn't even need a greenhouse...: @el gringuito, what approximate maximum and minimum temperatures in °C usually occur in your area during the season in which you plan to grow? At what altitude are you?: If it serves as a reference, think that I grow without a greenhouse in my sierra long-flowering sativas until December (June-July in the Southern Hemisphere), at 39° North latitude and almost 900 meters of altitude ... And another thing that you must take into account is the resistance to the wind and the "nautical sail" effect that any plastic film will have before strong winds, and more so on a roof... don't go flying off me, my cousin heh...

 

[CBDMed]

Why can't he just add some extra bamboo stilts on top of one side so it is maybe a foot or two taller than the other. Then stretch the supports between the two giving you instant slope. Not as good as cbd's hoops but could be built in without too much fuss.

Well, great question! And the answer is....
I am in Colombia, and I have a contract employee I am not afraid to have in my house. (Thud.)
It took two months to find him.
I asked him if he could please build me a greenhouse, and he said he had never built one, but he could look around at the existing ones in the valley, and make a good version of that they do. I was completely overloaded, and saw an opportunity to let him take one of many loads off of me, and I said OK!!
I am sure if he gives me a good version of what they do here in the valley, it may not necessarily be the ideal, but it should last for long enough to get us onto the structure. (And if he is a reliable employee who is honest and humble, then we want to keep him around, for sure, for sure.)

If I had had the presence of mind to show him some photos from CBD's thread, I could have avoided this whole problem. But I did not think of it. He said he could build something inexpensive and reliable in bamboo (Farmer Juan style), and I said "Okay!!" because I've got too many irons in the fire, and too many headaches, and this would be one less.

I am definitely glad for the reminder for CBD's style of greenhouse! I looked at that before, and I liked what I saw. I think it could be easy to incorporate walls. One major issue is that I have not found PVC Pipe Heaters anywhere here, so there is no way to bend larger than 3/4" or 1" at most (and I would think a larger tube would be in order).
The reality is that they build in bamboo here, because it is local, and cheap. And his buddy sells it to him cheap (like $2.50 for six meters). So this one is a prototype he knows how to build, and the next one can have much more slope.
That's the reality.
I had the opportunity to tell him to raise the one side higher, and I missed it. He said he was going to make it like a good version of what is commonly done here in the valley, and I said yes.
I think it will be a good experiment, and then the next one we can improve on it.
I am in it more for the long haul relationship, then for the job at the moment. (Even if this greenhouse should crash inside of two years, which I doubt, the relationship is more important.) I know that might not make sense in Gringo, but it makes excellent sense in Latino (because the relationship is their priority). I hope I am explaining well.

 

[CBDMed]

We expect her to pass today. She's barely hanging on. Thank you for your prayers.

I will keep praying.

 

[CBDMed]

Efectivamente, y tal como ya le dije a nuestro amigo @el gringuito justo antes, esa es la solución mas sencilla, si no puede usar los típicos arcos curvos... Un poco más complicado sería hacer un "techo" de dos aguas en forma triangular...:

Indeed, and as I already told our friend @el gringuito just before, that is the easiest solution, if you cannot use the typical curved arches... A little more complicated would be to make a "roof" with two waters in the form triangular...:

...Pero quizá nuestro amigo se esté complicando demasiado, y no necesite ni invernadero...: @el gringuito, ¿que temperaturas en °C máximas y mínimas aproximadas suelen darse en tu zona durante la temporada en la que piensas cultivar? ¿A que altitud estás?: Si te sirve de referencia, piensa que yo cultivo sin invernadero en mi sierra sativas de larga floración hasta Diciembre (el Junio-Julio del hemisferio Sur), a 39° de latitud Norte y casi 900 metros de altitud... Y otra cosa que debes tener en cuenta es la resistencia al viento y el efecto "vela naútica" que cualquier film de plástico tendrá antes vientos fuertes, y más sobre una azotea... no me vayas a salir volando, mi primo, je...

...But perhaps our friend is getting too complicated, and he doesn't even need a greenhouse...: @el gringuito, what approximate maximum and minimum temperatures in °C usually occur in your area during the season in which you plan to grow? At what altitude are you?: If it serves as a reference, think that I grow without a greenhouse in my sierra long-flowering sativas until December (June-July in the Southern Hemisphere), at 39° North latitude and almost 900 meters of altitude ... And another thing that you must take into account is the resistance to the wind and the "nautical sail" effect that any plastic film will have before strong winds, and more so on a roof... don't go flying off me, my cousin heh...

Hi @Cide Hamete Benengeli !
Yes, this structure is exactly half of this structure. Same. Nada más. I think it can last a long time like this, or they would not build it like this. Got to run.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I wish I could. The bags have no markings.
I had to write to ask if it is coco or coco-pine (no markings).
So I will probably have to wash it.

It does look like coco coir, but I'm not 100% sure.

Keep in mind that the best way to buy coir is in compressed blocks. 5kg coconut coir brick. I buy these locally in bulk from a guy who imports them. My cost is about $6.00 USD per block. When you expand the brick with water, it increases in volume about 9x.

I thought to do a simple hoop house like I had before, except in 3/4" PVC instead of 1/2", and then support it real good to the sidewall.

The PVC you used before with the one that fell down, that might work. I don't remember what diameter that PVC tubing was.

I know what you are saying. I have seen that kind of stretching before.
If that is not enough slope on the roof, then I am not sure how to fix the situation.
I can ask him if such hoops would be beneficial, but I am sure he had a different design idea, and I am not sure how to implement hoops at this point.
Let me print this picture out, and see what he says.

I like your suggestion.
I think we can implement that when we get to the property.
You are saying this will definitely have a problem unless there is more slope, or more support? :[

I guarantee you that if the slope isn't sufficient, it's not going to work. If it's near flat, it won't work. If you were using rigid polycarbonate panels, it would work with only a slight slope, provided the panels were supported enough.

Let me provide an example. I have a tarp structure – it's just metal tubing (conduit), that looks a bit like your bamboo structure; however, it has about a 15-20° slope, and no rafters. I have a fairly high-quality tarp stretched over it. The tarp has grommets all around the edges, and I use those elastic ball jobbies on each grommet to connect the tarp to the frame. This setup works 100% in a heavy rain. One more key aspect of this setup: the tarp DOES NOT stretch OVER the frame. The elastics connects the tarp to the frame. This eliminates any possibility of pooling.

Now, how is this different than using a clear greenhouse plastic? The plastic is way thinner than the tarp, and has no grommets (it can't because it's too thin). So this has three main implications: you have to provide enough slope, enough support to keep the plastic from pooling water, and a way to connect the plastic to the frame.

In the design I showed you, the greenhouse walls are straight, and then PVC hoops are used across the top. There are sufficient hoops to hold up the plastic, and the plastic is stretched tight using "snap clamps" that clamp the plastic to the PVC tubing. I can provide you with more design details if you want to attempt it.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Indeed, and as I already told our friend @el gringuito just before, that is the easiest solution, if you cannot use the typical curved arches... A little more complicated would be to make a "roof" with two waters in the form triangular...:

The key here is the roof pitch (the slope). In the photo, they use a central peak, with two sides. You only really need one side. What I'm not clear about from this photo is how they attached the plastic to the bottom of the roof frame. The top and sides are not so crucial; however, if the connection to the bottom isn't done correctly, then you'll get water pooling up on the plastic. The plastic of course needs to be stretched tight.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I am definitely glad for the reminder for CBD's style of greenhouse! I looked at that before, and I liked what I saw. I think it could be easy to incorporate walls. One major issue is that I have not found PVC Pipe Heaters anywhere here, so there is no way to bend larger than 3/4" or 1" at most (and I would think a larger tube would be in order).

1" PVC bends easily without any heating. That's what I am using – 1" PVC is totally sufficient for a small greenhouse. And then I'm using 1x4" snap clamps. Notice also the 1x struts at the apex of each tube, and tensioning cords that hold the tubing to the strut. The tubing provides the necessary slope – water runs right off. Stretching the plastic is accomodated very nicely by the snap clamps; and as time goes by, you can re-tighted the plastic easily. By the way, I am using 6 mil, 4-year, UV resistant plastic. Cheap, thinner plastic will degrade quickly and fall apart.

 

[Azimuth]

Built like it is with the flat roof, he's probably going to have to have some strategically placed drain holes in the roof plastic to minimize the pooling during a rain.

Hell, could even put some rain barrels under the holes to catch the water.

 

[Bill284]

I used a steel frame from a portable garage and used tuck tape and 6ml poly for walls.
Slope let's rain run off just fine.
Weathered storms all summer without a problem.

VIVOSUN #Love What You Grow
Bill284

 

[Azimuth]

Do you take it down during the winter because of snow load?

 

[Bill284]

Do you take it down during the winter because of snow load?

No I threw the top that came with it overtop and moved it to the driveway.
I took one end off.
And door off for air flow.
I'll move it back in the spring if I don't build a permanent one.

That's the roof that came with it.
If snow builds up I'll have to brush it off though.
But so far so good.




#VIVOSUN #Love What You Grow
Bill284

 

[CBDMed]

Hey @Cide Hamete Benengeli !
I'm back now.

Efectivamente, y tal como ya le dije a nuestro amigo @el gringuito justo antes, esa es la solución mas sencilla, si no puede usar los típicos arcos curvos... Un poco más complicado sería hacer un "techo" de dos aguas en forma triangular...:

Indeed, and as I already told our friend @el gringuito just before, that is the easiest solution, if you cannot use the typical curved arches... A little more complicated would be to make a "roof" with two waters in the form triangular...:

...Pero quizá nuestro amigo se esté complicando demasiado, y no necesite ni invernadero...: @el gringuito, ¿que temperaturas en °C máximas y mínimas aproximadas suelen darse en tu zona durante la temporada en la que piensas cultivar? ¿A que altitud estás?: Si te sirve de referencia, piensa que yo cultivo sin invernadero en mi sierra sativas de larga floración hasta Diciembre (el Junio-Julio del hemisferio Sur), a 39° de latitud Norte y casi 900 metros de altitud... Y otra cosa que debes tener en cuenta es la resistencia al viento y el efecto "vela naútica" que cualquier film de plástico tendrá antes vientos fuertes, y más sobre una azotea... no me vayas a salir volando, mi primo, je...

...But perhaps our friend is getting too complicated, and he doesn't even need a greenhouse...: @el gringuito, what approximate maximum and minimum temperatures in °C usually occur in your area during the season in which you plan to grow?

Good question. We are in a high mountain valley. This is an annual for the valley floor. We will be a few hundred meters higher (cooler).
Annual high of 67F is 19.4C.
50F is 10C.
I think it's too cool for cannabis outdoors without some kind of a greenhouse.
It's definitely too cool for coca.
However, we chose a cool wet place because when cannabis and coca grow outdoors you get guerrillas and narcotrafficking (and all that goes along with that). (Silly people! If they just would not outlaw plants the Father never outlawed, we would not have this problem!)

At what altitude are you?:

Not sure, really. But we will be maybe 1C cooler then the above chart.

If it serves as a reference, think that I grow without a greenhouse in my sierra long-flowering sativas until December (June-July in the Southern Hemisphere), at 39° North latitude and almost 900 meters of altitude ...

Ok, but I think the climate here is not as seasonal. It is tropical temperate rainforest, which I think is perhaps very different than Spain?

And another thing that you must take into account is the resistance to the wind and the "nautical sail" effect that any plastic film will have before strong winds, and more so on a roof... don't go flying off me, my cousin heh...

Hahaha, thanks for your concern! But the verticals are 5" bamboo bolted to brick sidewalls with 3/8" stainless steel lag bolts. hahaha!
Yes, we will have to see how strong the winds get in these mountains, but there are many bamboo greenhouses here in this valley, and the supports are MUCH father apart!
Here is one we walked past today, growing tomatoes.

Side view:

And here were some others, in the distance. They looked like they had even more space between the long poles. So I think we will probably be ok.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Yes, as long as the plastic at the low end of the roof looks like this, the water will drain off. It has to be tight enough.

 

[CBDMed]

Hey, @cbdhemp808 !

1" PVC bends easily without any heating.

That's GREAT news!! Thanks!!

That's what I am using – 1" PVC is totally sufficient for a small greenhouse.

I am going to have to check out your thread again! How wide is your span??

And then I'm using 1x4" snap clamps.

Thanks!
They make those here by cutting a 4" piece of pipe, and then cutting a third of the side out.

Notice also the 1x struts at the apex of each tube, and tensioning cords that hold the tubing to the strut.

Nice. Thank you!

The tubing provides the necessary slope – water runs right off. Stretching the plastic is accomodated very nicely by the snap clamps; and as time goes by, you can re-tighted the plastic easily.

Very nice!
I wonder what the difference in cost is. Don Segundo gets 6 meter (18') bamboo poles for $2.28 USD.

By the way, I am using 6 mil, 4-year, UV resistant plastic.

Hahaha, I am using whatever the thick, heavy, yellowish, UV resistant plastic they sell in the hardware stores here is. (It is night or I would take you a picture, but it is thick. It has to last about a year.)

Cheap, thinner plastic will degrade quickly and fall apart.

Siiii.....
Nice greenhouse!!

 

[CBDMed]

Yes, as long as the plastic at the low end of the roof looks like this, the water will drain off. It has to be tight enough.

Yes.
I think we will be ok for a year or two, while we build. (It was cheap, he was confident he could take it off my plate, and I think it will be fine for right now.... but when we plant down permanent, I want something more like what @cbdhemp808 has!)