It’s made by Flying Skull.
Actually sorry I forgot. The American version is called Z7 (same thing but different names for
bureaucratic reasons.)
Clone Success Tip
- Thread starter Herby Green
- Start date
Actually sorry I forgot. The American version is called Z7 (same thing but different names for
bureaucratic reasons.)
I tried all sorts of different methods - a few years just with rockwool- humidity done and all that jazz, then bubble cloner, DIY aero cloner, cloning in perlite, cloning in coco, then commercial aero cloner, also in plain peat moss, plain water- messed around tons with temps and RH, bleach, peroxide, cleaning and more f$&king cleaning and sterilizing everything all the time. Compost tea, GH Subculture, Recharge, I forget what else.
People kept saying ‘Do it this way, do it that way- you’ll have 100% results’. I also had 100% results, until I didn’t.
Bottom line is cloning is actually very easy and there are many ways to accomplish the same thing. But those root rot/slime critters are invisible and will screw everything up no matter what special technique you use.
Nowadays I’m back to cloning in plain perlite. Just an open tray of it, soaked with water treated with Z9, a little cloning gel on the stems No dome or anything like that because my RH is high here. I just leave them under a 9w cfl and by the time the perlite is dry again I have roots.
I’m sure any other method would work fine too as long as I have a way to keep the slime away.
Thanks again. I think we had this convo a couple years ago n I was one saying "do it this way, 100% success"
I have pretty much been using aero cloner since I started. I appreciate your expertise on the matter. I ordered the z7 2 part formula. Cant wait to get back on track.
Cornercat
Well-Known Member
Do you clean your cloner? I think the only times I haven't gotten 100% success is when I don't. Now I let it run for a day between cycles with bleach water and that cleans the collars/pump/manifold/res.
Out of curiosity Marz, how do you grow the plants that you clone from? Maybe the parents have an infection. If you're growing hydro I think it can make cloning harder. I'm reading a book on grafting and it mentions success rate can be relative to a cutting's turgidity. "Grafting records kept in Australia over 12-years have attributed over 99 percent of major losses to budding and grafting during wet weather. It is suggested that fully turgid tissue collected during wet conditions bruises five to ten cells into the cambium when cut and prevents compartmentalization. Healthy tissue does not grow and bacterial soft rots develop."
Maybe your plants are too turgid and the swollen cells in the cutting are bruising and bottlenecking the osmosis that the bare stem depends on for oxygen and water.
Out of curiosity Marz, how do you grow the plants that you clone from? Maybe the parents have an infection. If you're growing hydro I think it can make cloning harder. I'm reading a book on grafting and it mentions success rate can be relative to a cutting's turgidity. "Grafting records kept in Australia over 12-years have attributed over 99 percent of major losses to budding and grafting during wet weather. It is suggested that fully turgid tissue collected during wet conditions bruises five to ten cells into the cambium when cut and prevents compartmentalization. Healthy tissue does not grow and bacterial soft rots develop."
Maybe your plants are too turgid and the swollen cells in the cutting are bruising and bottlenecking the osmosis that the bare stem depends on for oxygen and water.
I'm a organic soil grower. I have a personal grow and a small commercial grow. I still get 100% in my personal grow in my house. Its my commercial grow in the new building I am having troubles in. The only difference from one grow to the other is the new grow is about 40 feet away and I used 4000k led for my veg instead of MH.
Yes I clean my cloner, new clone collars everytime. I bleach, rinse, run water for a day, rinse again. I pull pump apart n clean everytime. My water temp, ambient temp and RH are all damn near optimal.
Also I do not keep mother plants. I clone, veg for a few weeks and clone those.
Enjoil
Well-Known Member
I don’t know how long it takes but I have heard if you clone a clone, and then clone that one and so on, eventually it will be less potent. Let’s em see what others have to say. I’m sure a couple times is not a big deal. Interesting stuff. I am really into mycology, it blows my mind. I guess it can do the same In the mushroom world.
I’ve heard the same comments enjoil. I’ve been cloning and recloning the same plant since 2015 and haven’t noticed any change in potency. I’ve never had it tested but it’s always been the one plant that makes the bud that makes everyone who smokes it say ‘wow’. Which is why I pretty much have to keep it around whether I like it or not. Everyone continues to say ‘wow’ and want that bud to this day, so I don’t think it’s changed much. It’s possible the plant has become more of a pain in the ass to grow, but I’m not sure about that either because it was always a PITA.
make sure you run it at about 50% of capacity or less when cloning or starting seedlings. getting used to high power led can be tricky. dimmers. only ever run rigs with dimmers.
the kelvin should remain in the same territory as the old MH and you should see similar plant development. however, high power LED can damage cell structure, slowing development, in young plants and clones if not used carefully.
plants will exhibit something looking close to genetic issues if over exposed, or subjected to extreme intensities. most growers stay well within bounds and might never run across the issues
my friend clones in a very similar fashion. minus the z9, and he uses t5s. he takes the tiniest of cuts too, and does it all in a shallow pan. he mists but doesn't dome.
he gets clones from anything he wants.
i went back to hempy cup cloning out of laziness. it worked so well i will probably just keep doing that.
are you on well water, municipal, filtered, or RO ?
check with your local. there have been a lot of changes in water management in the last couple years. not just chloramine. there may have been changes to your supply. have seen it happen here. i'm on RO as a result.
i've had genetic drift doing clone over clone. it takes a long time though, and some phenos will slide quicker than others.
If it is it isn't much. I have had my montana kush for years.
I clone under a 20w florescent. I am on well water but I switched to bottled spring water for the cloner.
ran a black indica pheno till it started doing all sorts. it was a medical plant i got through friends and was a local legend for adhd pills. would have mothered it but don't have the capacity. i had a couple others that went as well, but the genetics were only middle of the road with those. the black indica ran a couple years longer than they did before any trouble.
won't be anything in the water then. the well water was probably ok.
I figured well water was ok as I have used it for years. I actually think my water is part of my success. Its 280ft well in ancient glacial fed river bed. My well pump burned up and I had it replaced along with the pipes. Thought something got stirred up and started a bacteria problem. Switched to spring water and still had problem. Bought all new gear, sterilized everything and then my pump in my cloner burned up. I might have fixed the issue only to have my pump fry and leave me without clones again!
I usually scrape my stems on my clones but this is where they rot off. I have a new batch of clones, they made it past the rot stage but are taking forever to root. Once I get my z7 im going to go back to my old method....well water, scrape stems, roots in 10 days....I hope!
Do you think its possible to actually improve on a strain from selective cloning? I only use the healthiest shoots off my plants to clone, with structure that I want. My kush was very leggy and small stalk on her, over the years with selective cloning I been able to change the structure of the plant to bigger stalk, more durable, less lanky.....I think. Even after better part of a decade and cloned clones upwards of 100 times she still testing 20% to 22% thc and 2% terpenes. I only started testing in June so cant say what she tested prior.
as far as i know, the genetic capability of a clone can only ever equal the mother at 100% expression.
I agree but would selecting specific branches for plant structure fall in that category? I am working on black cherry punch right now. She is very short with alot of lower lateral branching. I think if I clone branches that are from the top of the plant with no lateral growth I can pass that on through the clones.
Also I have a pathos plant, it has very little variegation. If I clone only the variegated parts would the clones be more apt to be variegated?
@Graytail was just talking about this over at PotChimp’s journal and I tend to agree with him from what little I’ve seen.
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There seems to be genetic drifting going on, and I do think you can change the plant based on how and where you clone it from.
As for the variegated plant I had. The clones from the variegated branches were very hard to root and that was before I got the Z9. I sure hope the Z9 /Z7 works for you by the way.
The variegated cuttings I did manage to root grew into variegated plants. The cuttings I took from the non-variegated branches never showed any variegation again. I renamed them as two different phenos. Lost the variegated one despite my best efforts, but still have the non variegated version going a couple years later.
PotChimp's Side Projects
There seems to be genetic drifting going on, and I do think you can change the plant based on how and where you clone it from.
As for the variegated plant I had. The clones from the variegated branches were very hard to root and that was before I got the Z9. I sure hope the Z9 /Z7 works for you by the way.
The variegated cuttings I did manage to root grew into variegated plants. The cuttings I took from the non-variegated branches never showed any variegation again. I renamed them as two different phenos. Lost the variegated one despite my best efforts, but still have the non variegated version going a couple years later.
I just checked my clones and looks as if they are starting to rot off again. Hopefully my z7 shows up sooner than later. It is becoming extremely frustrating. Everything seems perfect to, i checked water temp right after pump turned off and was 72.8, drops down to 68 before pump kicks back on. 73 ambient temp with 60% Rh. It has to be some sort of bacteria, maybe even airborn through my air pump?
From what I read the slime type of organisms don’t generally get airborne as spores, but they can get kicked up in dust, etc. They go through a few lifecycle stages and at one they are kind of like tadpoles and travel around in liquid. At any rate I never had any luck sterilizing everything.
Link to a post where I was blathering about it at one point. Weasel Forges Ahead
Link to a post where I was blathering about it at one point. Weasel Forges Ahead
I will look into that this evening. Getting a bit redundant and expensive to keep throwing cutting away and this will keep my next crop from going into flower at least 10 days. It also screws my entire schedule up. i'm use to harvesting the 1st of every other month and starting my new crop. I will not let my genetics get lost so i will just have to wait.
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