- Thread starter
- #441
I am certain that Lowes has them both.
CFL Light Tutorial
- Thread starter Roseman
- Start date
origamijoint
New Member
Roseman.....much wisdom from this brother.
Those of you (me included) who have big ideas....with the big lights and the big rooms, and the big fans and the big headaches.....there is much reason to listen to the Roseman. Study his style of grow, his understanding of it, and his love for it.....I promise you that will not be finding yourself paying 120 for a new HPS bulb. Yes there us a pause when one is making such a purchase. And the bulb is the cheapest part of a HID set up.
Alas!
I figure that if I was not supposed to be where I am now....lots of things would have stopped me. Growing CFL will save you much much much headache, backache, money, and time. You finish a day of work...go home to work on the grow room....and you get too tired to relax and medicate. Now that is tired. The CFL area of my grow room is the easiest and most stable. I do not need to worry about much with these great lights. Thank you...I have learned much so far.
The first tray of ladies hits the 36 hour dark period Saturday or Sunday.
Wish me luck.
Those of you (me included) who have big ideas....with the big lights and the big rooms, and the big fans and the big headaches.....there is much reason to listen to the Roseman. Study his style of grow, his understanding of it, and his love for it.....I promise you that will not be finding yourself paying 120 for a new HPS bulb. Yes there us a pause when one is making such a purchase. And the bulb is the cheapest part of a HID set up.
Alas!
I figure that if I was not supposed to be where I am now....lots of things would have stopped me. Growing CFL will save you much much much headache, backache, money, and time. You finish a day of work...go home to work on the grow room....and you get too tired to relax and medicate. Now that is tired. The CFL area of my grow room is the easiest and most stable. I do not need to worry about much with these great lights. Thank you...I have learned much so far.
The first tray of ladies hits the 36 hour dark period Saturday or Sunday.
Wish me luck.
TheMilkMan
New Member
YES i finally read all 30 pages after about 2 weeks on multiple threads......DAMN thats a lotta information to digest.....
You guys are unreal, I even had my own question answered im pretty sure.
I've copy pasted all the useful facts from all 30 pages I thought that mattered and I'm gunna edit it all and post them all up in one post if thats ok?
If not I wont.
Just figured I'd save someone 30 pages of hardcore.....but im baked so i wouldnt know if im talking shit or not exactly.
I'll ask my actual question later........
You guys are unreal, I even had my own question answered im pretty sure.
I've copy pasted all the useful facts from all 30 pages I thought that mattered and I'm gunna edit it all and post them all up in one post if thats ok?
If not I wont.
Just figured I'd save someone 30 pages of hardcore.....but im baked so i wouldnt know if im talking shit or not exactly.
I'll ask my actual question later........
Thanks RoseMan and reps to you man...and also thanks for all that added to this ....
I have read this twice now, and I think some of it has soaked in to ME head LoL...
One thing I am still wondering about though on these cfls, is Just how long they put the light out that the plants want.... Seems if one builds a big system using only CFLs with many bulbs... and they don`t last that long then in the long one they are not all that cheap to keep replacing to get the Output in light???
Hope someone can find this info out soon...Once again thanks to ALLLLL!!!!
I have read this twice now, and I think some of it has soaked in to ME head LoL...
One thing I am still wondering about though on these cfls, is Just how long they put the light out that the plants want.... Seems if one builds a big system using only CFLs with many bulbs... and they don`t last that long then in the long one they are not all that cheap to keep replacing to get the Output in light???
Hope someone can find this info out soon...Once again thanks to ALLLLL!!!!
origamijoint
New Member
One thing I am still wondering about though on these cfls, is Just how long they put the light out that the plants want.... Seems if one builds a big system using only CFLs with many bulbs... and they don`t last that long then in the long one they are not all that cheap to keep replacing to get the Output in light???
I am working on getting some stats on that. Using a new multimeter with a lums digital read. The limit is 40,000 lumins. So with larger bulbs......I must do this at a preset distance. Then work theumbers math back wards to get the initial and subsequent readings. Just one more variable I am interested in wrangling.
With CFL's it is going to be much easier. As soon as time permits...I am going to jig a place for the meter and have a single CFL (the 100 w. equiv that I mostly see in the pics) and take a reading ever so often (every two days. Have the thing burning 24/7 for ease of the graph.) It also reads RH and temp. SO I can make sure that the area is similar to a CFL grow room.
If there are any requests for a specific bulb...and I am able to easily find it...and it costs under or around 20.00 I would love to help.
Take care all.
However....every bulb....regardless....fades quickly. That is why there are 1000's of "only used one grow" HID bulbs on Craig's list.
But a little long term information should be helpful to all.
I am working on getting some stats on that. Using a new multimeter with a lums digital read. The limit is 40,000 lumins. So with larger bulbs......I must do this at a preset distance. Then work theumbers math back wards to get the initial and subsequent readings. Just one more variable I am interested in wrangling.
With CFL's it is going to be much easier. As soon as time permits...I am going to jig a place for the meter and have a single CFL (the 100 w. equiv that I mostly see in the pics) and take a reading ever so often (every two days. Have the thing burning 24/7 for ease of the graph.) It also reads RH and temp. SO I can make sure that the area is similar to a CFL grow room.
If there are any requests for a specific bulb...and I am able to easily find it...and it costs under or around 20.00 I would love to help.
Take care all.
However....every bulb....regardless....fades quickly. That is why there are 1000's of "only used one grow" HID bulbs on Craig's list.
But a little long term information should be helpful to all.
TheMilkMan
New Member
Thousands? lol thats insane, were now chucking even our lights away after 1 use. Everything is disposable huh, wonder where all the millions of bulbs end up. That must be one massive stack of glass.
If i even had a bulb I reckon i'd grow till it cooked itself.
If i even had a bulb I reckon i'd grow till it cooked itself.
- Thread starter
- #447
thanks you bro, and + REP for you too.
The real cost of NOT using FLs is the cost of VENTING out the heat.
Good Luck with your grow, I hope to see a journal and pics.
- Thread starter
- #448
YES i finally read all 30 pages after about 2 weeks on multiple threads......DAMN thats a lotta information to digest.....
You guys are unreal, I even had my own question answered im pretty sure.
I've copy pasted all the useful facts from all 30 pages I thought that mattered and I'm gunna edit it all and post them all up in one post if thats ok?
If not I wont.
Just figured I'd save someone 30 pages of hardcore.....but im baked so i wouldnt know if im talking shit or not exactly.
I'll ask my actual question later........
Glad you're here, and I look forward to your condensed version.
- Thread starter
- #449
I asked until I got tired of asking, so I bought a light meter a year ago. I had bulbs that had been through two complete grows and seemed to be still effective, but the meter daid they were putting out 60% of what the same NEW bulb put out.
I am convinced a bulb is good for two grows then they are greatly diminished.
I also learned a larger bulb (65, 85, 105) lasts much longer than a smaller 42 watt bulb.
I'd love to see any study or test you can do. I hope you post it here.
- Thread starter
- #450
I think we are all familiar with TANNING bulbs. After a year or two, they still light up and appear just as bright, but won't tan and have to be discarded.
CharlieMopps
New Member
Its because of the radioactive isotopes have a shorter life cycle than the rest of the chemicals in a bulb.
TheMilkMan
New Member
OK:
In short form from what I've copied and pasted;
=======================================
KELVIN
=======================================
"K = Kelvin, means color temp. High and Low, or Red and Blue Kelvins are both needed...called Dual Spectrum."
==================================
RELECTORS
=======================================
The major weakness of CFLs is they do not penetrate deep into the foilage. But, I can put mine two inches near, and am well pleased with the tight condensed buds I get. I did see if the Reflectors reflected the light, as well as the mylar, tin foil, flat white and glossy white paint and mirrors. And YES, the reflectors did better than the white panels and not as well as the mirrors, tin foil and mylar.
Parabolic Reflectors = AWESOME
"NEED REFLECTORS = 50% of CFL lights goes UP"
If you're using spiral CFL's in a horizontal position without a reflector, *50%* of your light is illuminating your ceiling instead of your plants.
If you're using them vertically *above* the canopy, you're doing even worse, as they don't radiate much at all along that axis.
The escaped light in those situations is huge.
===============================
VELCRO to stick Stick Mylar on reflector
==============================
===================================
WATTS PER LUMENS
=================================
the 200w listed at 9250 lumens for a lumens/watt ratio of 9250/200=46.25
the 150w is listed at 7500 lumens for a l/w ratio of 7500/150=50
the 125w is listed at 6500 lumens for a l/w ratio of 6500/125=52
the 42w are listed for 2700 lumens, l/w ratio of 2700/42=64.28
some 26w give off 1700 lumens for a l/w ratio of 1700/26=65.38
some 13w that give off 825 lumens for a l/w ratio of 825/13=63.46
Another comparison =
~ = approximately
68W ~ 4200L **61.7 L/W**
42W ~ 2600L **61.9 L/W**
26W ~ 1700L **65.4 L/W**
23W ~ 1600L . **69.6 L/W**
270 watts (135 x 2) = 17550 lumens
300 watts of CFL = 10000 lumens = SUN
Need 3000 lumens per sq foot minimum to grow vege stage
=================================
LUMENS AT HEIGHT
================================
A 1000w hps puts out approx. 140,000 lumens at 1', but this falls off to 15,555 lumens at 3'.
A 400w hps puts out approx. 51,000 lumens at 1'.
So, placing a 400w 1' above the plant will put out more than 3 times the lumens that a 1000w will at 3'.
8 x T5 Flourcent Tubes = 40000 lumen
4 x " " 20000 Lumen
400HPS @ 1 foot = 40000 lumen
400 HPS @ 2 feet = 15000 lumen
600W (150 lumens per watt):
1' away: 90,000 Lumens
2' away: 22,500 Lumens
3' away: 9,999 Lumens
4' away: 6,428 Lumens
400W (125 lumens per watt):
1' away: 50,000 Lumens
2' away: 12,500 Lumens
3' away: 5,555 Lumens
4' away: 3,571 Lumens
A 1000w HPS will put out ~140,000 lumens at 1' away
A 1000w HPS will put out ~35,000 lumens at 2' away
A 600w HPS will put out ~90,000 lumens at 1' away
A 600w HPS will put out ~22,500 lumens at 2' away
A 400w HPS will put out ~50,000 lumens at 1' away
A 400w HPS will put out ~12,500 lumens at 2' away
We have to keep:
1000w HPS; ~3' above the tops, at 3' the 1000w put out 15,555 lumens.
600w HPS; ~2' above the tops, at 2' the 600w put out 22,500 lumens.
400w HPS; ~1' above the tops, at 1' the 400w put out 50,000 lumens.
Light intensity virtually doubles for every 6" closer an HID is to the canopy of a garden. I've singed a top twice by keeping my lamp real close, more like 6"-8" with the MH which is hotter than the HPS, I think this is a good strategy seeing as the plants have never seemed to mind getting a little hot, never hurt growth any. I always raise the light, but I never raise it more than 10" above the canopy.
Now the 400w can't cover the area the 1000w can, but for my money I'll buy the 400w and put more of them around for more, closer lighting and getting more lumens on those solar receptors we're feeding so diligently.
=================================
Determining lumens for your grow area:
==================================
First determine the square footage of your area (example in a 4 foot by 4 foot area, there is 16 square feet, 2 by 2 feet is 4 Sq ft. ) If you have a 1000 Watt High Pressure Sodium Light Bulb, that produces approximately 107,000 lumens. Divide this by 16 (your square footage) 107,000 divided by 16 = 6687 lumens per square foot. So just divide the total amount of Lumens, by the total amount of square feet, and that's your lumens per square foot.
================================
NUTES AND LIGHT
================================
WITHOUT ADEQUATE LIGHT, YOU HAVE TO REDUCE THE PPM AND AMOUNT OF NUTRIENTS FED TO THE PLANTS OR YOU WILL GET NUTE BURN.
In short form from what I've copied and pasted;
=======================================
KELVIN
=======================================
"K = Kelvin, means color temp. High and Low, or Red and Blue Kelvins are both needed...called Dual Spectrum."
==================================
RELECTORS
=======================================
The major weakness of CFLs is they do not penetrate deep into the foilage. But, I can put mine two inches near, and am well pleased with the tight condensed buds I get. I did see if the Reflectors reflected the light, as well as the mylar, tin foil, flat white and glossy white paint and mirrors. And YES, the reflectors did better than the white panels and not as well as the mirrors, tin foil and mylar.
Parabolic Reflectors = AWESOME
"NEED REFLECTORS = 50% of CFL lights goes UP"
If you're using spiral CFL's in a horizontal position without a reflector, *50%* of your light is illuminating your ceiling instead of your plants.
If you're using them vertically *above* the canopy, you're doing even worse, as they don't radiate much at all along that axis.
The escaped light in those situations is huge.
===============================
VELCRO to stick Stick Mylar on reflector
==============================
===================================
WATTS PER LUMENS
=================================
the 200w listed at 9250 lumens for a lumens/watt ratio of 9250/200=46.25
the 150w is listed at 7500 lumens for a l/w ratio of 7500/150=50
the 125w is listed at 6500 lumens for a l/w ratio of 6500/125=52
the 42w are listed for 2700 lumens, l/w ratio of 2700/42=64.28
some 26w give off 1700 lumens for a l/w ratio of 1700/26=65.38
some 13w that give off 825 lumens for a l/w ratio of 825/13=63.46
Another comparison =
~ = approximately
68W ~ 4200L **61.7 L/W**
42W ~ 2600L **61.9 L/W**
26W ~ 1700L **65.4 L/W**
23W ~ 1600L . **69.6 L/W**
270 watts (135 x 2) = 17550 lumens
300 watts of CFL = 10000 lumens = SUN
Need 3000 lumens per sq foot minimum to grow vege stage
=================================
LUMENS AT HEIGHT
================================
A 1000w hps puts out approx. 140,000 lumens at 1', but this falls off to 15,555 lumens at 3'.
A 400w hps puts out approx. 51,000 lumens at 1'.
So, placing a 400w 1' above the plant will put out more than 3 times the lumens that a 1000w will at 3'.
8 x T5 Flourcent Tubes = 40000 lumen
4 x " " 20000 Lumen
400HPS @ 1 foot = 40000 lumen
400 HPS @ 2 feet = 15000 lumen
600W (150 lumens per watt):
1' away: 90,000 Lumens
2' away: 22,500 Lumens
3' away: 9,999 Lumens
4' away: 6,428 Lumens
400W (125 lumens per watt):
1' away: 50,000 Lumens
2' away: 12,500 Lumens
3' away: 5,555 Lumens
4' away: 3,571 Lumens
A 1000w HPS will put out ~140,000 lumens at 1' away
A 1000w HPS will put out ~35,000 lumens at 2' away
A 600w HPS will put out ~90,000 lumens at 1' away
A 600w HPS will put out ~22,500 lumens at 2' away
A 400w HPS will put out ~50,000 lumens at 1' away
A 400w HPS will put out ~12,500 lumens at 2' away
We have to keep:
1000w HPS; ~3' above the tops, at 3' the 1000w put out 15,555 lumens.
600w HPS; ~2' above the tops, at 2' the 600w put out 22,500 lumens.
400w HPS; ~1' above the tops, at 1' the 400w put out 50,000 lumens.
Light intensity virtually doubles for every 6" closer an HID is to the canopy of a garden. I've singed a top twice by keeping my lamp real close, more like 6"-8" with the MH which is hotter than the HPS, I think this is a good strategy seeing as the plants have never seemed to mind getting a little hot, never hurt growth any. I always raise the light, but I never raise it more than 10" above the canopy.
Now the 400w can't cover the area the 1000w can, but for my money I'll buy the 400w and put more of them around for more, closer lighting and getting more lumens on those solar receptors we're feeding so diligently.
=================================
Determining lumens for your grow area:
==================================
First determine the square footage of your area (example in a 4 foot by 4 foot area, there is 16 square feet, 2 by 2 feet is 4 Sq ft. ) If you have a 1000 Watt High Pressure Sodium Light Bulb, that produces approximately 107,000 lumens. Divide this by 16 (your square footage) 107,000 divided by 16 = 6687 lumens per square foot. So just divide the total amount of Lumens, by the total amount of square feet, and that's your lumens per square foot.
================================
NUTES AND LIGHT
================================
WITHOUT ADEQUATE LIGHT, YOU HAVE TO REDUCE THE PPM AND AMOUNT OF NUTRIENTS FED TO THE PLANTS OR YOU WILL GET NUTE BURN.
- Thread starter
- #453
mrcoz,
origamijoint
New Member
No....not everything is disposable. In fact I believe most things are not. I am not blind to the fact that our manner of living and out plastic world does indeed take a huge toll on the world and the most expendable.
I understand the crux of your thought. It may be the correct one. Let me throw some light on some things I have learned. 1. Human nature......the HID bulbs do not get tossed. They cost too much. Someone somewhere is using them or storing them "just in case". I have a strong feeling that the vast majority of grow bulbs go somewhere other than the trash heap...I could be wrong...but I have a feeling they are like old smut....something that really never is too useless to toss.
Thought 2. Whetherthe bulb puts out x light now and y light later...one thing remains the same. The amount of current it takes to make the bulb burn. SOoooo whether new or about to burn out......it takes about 1100 w. to make the 1000 w. HPS bulb burn. So when to get a new bulb? At what time period do they start to cost more in operation than in light production. No maker of these bulbs has the courage to post the information...none that I know of yet. So.
Without data....we do not know. I will have a better idea soon enough.
mrcoz, excellent review of lighting distance application.
The only way to determine the light output of the particular bulb you are using is with a light meter. I don't have one but it is on my list. I toss my cfl's after two - three grows or one year whichever is less. The MH and HPS have a longer rated life and that's where I need the meter.
The only way to determine the light output of the particular bulb you are using is with a light meter. I don't have one but it is on my list. I toss my cfl's after two - three grows or one year whichever is less. The MH and HPS have a longer rated life and that's where I need the meter.
TheMilkMan
New Member
but I have a feeling they are like old smut....something that really never is too useless to toss.
I'm just gunna grow these cfl's i got till it wont grow now more lol they are at 2 grows now.
i must admit i never considered the light output after using a couple of times but then most people i know will be using their hps etc again and again.
MostlyCrazy =
All i want are the basic hard facts on buds / lights in all ways.
The idiot proof basics that tell us what to do to get results.
I didnt really review anything, I just cut and paste parts of the 30 pages and made a mini reference encyclopedia from the experts for my own personal use but now everyone can have it without searching for weeks.
Ive always wanted to know this information on lumens, and now i have a bunch of other vitally important information as well i find it just incredible that i can get this off one thread.
If anyone should be thanked its the hardcore researchers that put the effort in and found out what it is we need to know
But still you found it and brought it to this thread as at least a reminder of the facts of the situation and that is of value here.
TheMilkMan
New Member
What this whole thread has done for me, is show me that CFL's are the absolute right choice for my grow, and I'll never have to buy a hps, i can just nick down the hard ware shop and buy some lights.
Its also shown me that heat issues can be taken care of by using this method.
I'm simply after the easiest and trouble free personal grow i can get.
Maximizing is not an issue, I don't need a pound of cannabis to get high and I'll never have to deal with some dodgy punk dealer ever again and haggle about the price of herbs.
Its also shown me that heat issues can be taken care of by using this method.
I'm simply after the easiest and trouble free personal grow i can get.
Maximizing is not an issue, I don't need a pound of cannabis to get high and I'll never have to deal with some dodgy punk dealer ever again and haggle about the price of herbs.
And that's one of the big reasons people grow with CFL's. Stealth and a decent product can be easily attained with CFL's. The proof is here.
- Thread starter
- #460
Amen, I hear ya.
You can tell a CFL bulb is too old when the plant stretches like crazy toward it, even when it is two inches away.