CFL Light Tutorial

[Setting Sun]

I think most grows using HPS from above would benefit more from having CFL's as side-lighting rather than adding them to the HID hood.

The reasons being that at the height you need to keep the HID above the canopy, the CFL's will be too far away to be as effective as they could be closer.

Also, since CFL's don't penetrate as well as HID, the canopy itself will block a lot of that CFL light coming from above. Using them from the sides, the penetration is *much* deeper and more effective.

 

[FryingPanFlyer]

I think most grows using HPS from above would benefit more from having CFL's as side-lighting rather than adding them to the HID hood.

The reasons being that at the height you need to keep the HID above the canopy, the CFL's will be too far away to be as effective as they could be closer.

Also, since CFL's don't penetrate as well as HID, the canopy itself will block a lot of that CFL light coming from above. Using them from the sides, the penetration is *much* deeper and more effective.

Great point SS, I'm planning to do exactly as you say. My cfl hood is only for vegging, I then put them into my flower closet and use the hps, but I need to get some cfl's in the corners to provide the side lighting you mention for the reason you mention.

 

[Tyrone Hamilton]

Good advice SS!

The one advantage CFLs have over HID is the ability to place them an inch away from the plant - this overcomes their inherent disadvantage of less light per watt because the inverse square law - getting them super close makes them reasonably efficient in delivering the lumens to the plant.

 

[MostlyCrazy]

Yeah, what they said! Good point SS! +reps all around!

 

[420warriors]

I was just reading Setting Suns comp grow and there is discussion about CFL vs. MH for veg. This thread seems more appropriate for my question though. I was just wondering, with the amount of CFLs most guys are running they could get a nice 8 bulb T5 with lower wattage and higher lumen output. I realize this limits the ability to arrange lights for side lighting and coverage, and a lot of CFL growers are on a limited budget but does anyone have experience or insight to which might be better? The more I think about it CFLs have numerous advantages with so many wattages and the ability to be configured to fit almost any area. But if you get a T5 panel, most just need plugged in. Aside from these differences, I'm just curious which works better.

 

[Setting Sun]

well, check this out, my 24" T5 with two 55w PL-L tubes cranks out 10,000 lumens.

110w and 10,000 lumens

can't do that with spiral CFL's, but as you mention, CFL's can be positioned with a lot more flexibility

 

[Proverbs]

We use 16, 32 watt,T-8, 6500k, 3000 lum lamps to surround each garden. We then top off each grow plot (4 wide, 5' long and 5'-8' high) with 1, 400 watt MH and change the color temp down to 2000 to 3000 k during grow to bloom schedule.

The nice thing about using T-8 (or 12) is that you can use each one as a 'Grow Stick' if need be- sliding it into the plot when and where needed.
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Each Plot starts out with 4, 6500k bulbs which, as the plants grow, are moved uo (arching) in the center which leaves the side lighting at original level. When more light is needed we turn on another 4 lamp ballast and add the needed lights at top and then to sides midway through grow. Once the ladies get about 4 feet high we flip the lights to a vertical position which allowes the plants to receive all the side lighting they need from all 4 sides. We also change the color spectrum of the 6500k lights down to around 3000 k. This is done in steps. (Or you can swap out the T-8 6500k bulbs with 2100k bulbs) The MH at top just helps each plot finish better. We bump the color spectrum of the MH too.

Total lum is (T-8 = 45,000 lum from sides inward) and MH 40,000 lum, top down. Ttl 85,000+ lum/lux at less than 1,000 watts and far less heat.

I forgot to mention... we are about to drop the MH lamps and just add another set of 4 T-8s to the top... hanging them right down into the gardens.

This whole set up requires 5, 4 lamp 35 watt ballasts.

And produces vertually no heat!! With summer coming this always becomes a factor.

And we are using only 5 plug ins. for 20 lights with a lumen out put of 60,000. /640 watts.

30 bulbs, $65
5 ballasts $1oo
40 sockets $28
Ttl $193

 

[Roseman]

I was just reading Setting Suns comp grow and there is discussion about CFL vs. MH for veg. This thread seems more appropriate for my question though. I was just wondering, with the amount of CFLs most guys are running they could get a nice 8 bulb T5 with lower wattage and higher lumen output. I realize this limits the ability to arrange lights for side lighting and coverage, and a lot of CFL growers are on a limited budget but does anyone have experience or insight to which might be better? The more I think about it CFLs have numerous advantages with so many wattages and the ability to be configured to fit almost any area. But if you get a T5 panel, most just need plugged in. Aside from these differences, I'm just curious which works better.

For optimum use, I guess you'd need both. Those long tubes T-5s are great, but I think being stationary is the drawback. My plants eventually wind up at different heights and I can postition each bulb and reflector two inches near each top cola, at varied heights, is the advantage.

 

[Setting Sun]

I just shim under my pots with pieces of styrofoam or something like that to even out the canopy.

Works fine, but might not be the best option for clumsy mofos. Also, if the discrepancy is too great, the shimmed plants start to shade the lower half of the taller plants.

Another benefit of using T5's over CFL's is that you get a professionally-designed reflector with a T5.

 

[420warriors]

This is the kind of stuff I was hoping to hear, thanks to everyone! Seems like a combo or at least side lighting of some sort is best, at least if you're staying away from HID. Hey Proverbs, do you have pics or a journal? your set up sounds interesting.

 

[Setting Sun]

Here's a link to a site that has power compact T5 DIY kits.

Compact Fluorescent Lighting Kits

 

[Proverbs]

This is the kind of stuff I was hoping to hear, thanks to everyone! Seems like a combo or at least side lighting of some sort is best, at least if you're staying away from HID. Hey Proverbs, do you have pics or a journal? your set up sounds interesting.

As soon as Justine gets back her in Montana with my camera- I will up-load what I have and take new pics as well. I should have uploaded the pics long ago. The set up is like this...

You have 5 ballasts (T-8 35 watt @$20 each) 4 - 4 foot lamps can be ran off of one ballast.

Attach 4 bulbs to 'ballast #1'. Place the 4 bulbs about 2 inches above the baby plants. As they grow- lift the two center lights up. When they grow taller- add 2 or 3 more lamps (from ballast #2) in an arching fashion leaving the side lights at/near ground level. Use more ballasts and bulbs as they grow taller.

There are many ways you can 'hang' the lights. I hang 'bird netting' from the ceiling and just slide the bulbs through from one side of the netting to the opposite side of the garden though that netting. It's a no brainer really. Never seen it done before but it sure works!

Design:
From the ballast run that bulbs lead wire down to the end of the bulb.
It becomes nothing more than a bulb with a wire running down to the connection at the other end. (I use rubber bands to hold that single lead wire on to the Bulb. Now just run the bulb through the Bird netting near you toward the bird netting on the opposite side of the garden. Increase as grow height demands! (in that arching fashion.)

There will come a time when you will want to just 'drop' your lights straight down from the ceiling. Vertically. All of them. A single light shining from the bottom of the plant to the top of the plant. Side lighting is now from bottom to top/top to bottom.

USE QUICK CONNECTIONS ON ALL LIGHTS. Bullet/butt connectors. (Butts/females are the 'hot' side ends coming from the ballasts. The Bullet looking leads are for the cold bulb side. )

This makes rearranging the lights a snap! When your plants get big you will love the ease on moving or replacing lights. And you can stick them into/or through the center of the plant mass if you desire.

A 30 bulb, 6 ballast system costs about $200 bucks.
The 6 ballast system represents a 24 lamp garden. (4 feet x 6 feet and more than 4 feet in hieght)

3000 lumans x 24 lamps/bulbs = 72000 lumens.
Not bad for only having 6 plug ends to deal with. (ballasts)
35 watts per bulb= 840 watts with little heat to deal with.

And the whole garden is lite from every conceivable direction you desire - even from the bottom up if you want!

It's all about imagination. You will learn even more as you conduct your first 24 bulb grow. (I saw the need for quick connects and for female ends to be on the 'hot' side/ballast before I set up my first grow. I've had enough shocking experiences in my life.)

You too will also come up with ideas as well !

As for T-5s... look at the cost difference between the two. Ballast and bulbs. Also look at the lenghth. We use 4 foot bulbs. Not 2 or 3 foot ones.

Enjoy
Justin

 

[420warriors]

Sounds very interesting, seems like you got the versatility of CFLs in a tube set up. +rep if I can. And I will definitely be watching for pics.

 

[Setting Sun]

There are many ways you can 'hang' the lights. I hang 'bird netting' from the ceiling and just slide the bulbs through from one side of the netting to the opposite side of the garden though that netting. It's a no brainer really. Never seen it done before but it sure works!

I may be misunderstanding, but you're not using reflectors with your tubes, just bare tubes?

 

[420warriors]

I was just thinking about the reflector also. I bet it would be easy to make an adjustable one to hang the same way as the lights. I have seen rolls of flexible shiny silver stuff at home improvement stores,although there may be better or cheaper options. I can't wait to see pics, it could be interesting.

 

[FryingPanFlyer]

I was just thinking about the reflector also. I bet it would be easy to make an adjustable one to hang the same way as the lights. I have seen rolls of flexible shiny silver stuff at home improvement stores,although there may be better or cheaper options. I can't wait to see pics, it could be interesting.

You could even use dowels above the lamps threaded through and supported by the bird netting on either end like the lamps. 5 dowels inserted in an arc with a piece of mylar placed on top would make a nicely shaped canopy.

 

[Proverbs]

I may be misunderstanding, but you're not using reflectors with your tubes, just bare tubes?

No. Fry and I were talking long ago and I decided to go with a ceiling to floor Mylar type bubble shield, Aluminum wrapped bubble pack type stuff- comes in a 4' x 125 roll. Cut to legth and velcro the top tp a velcro strip. This allows me to adjust the 'wall' as close of as far way from the outter edge of the grow. I keep the lights about 4 inches awat from the 'walls' which helps refelct the light better at different angles. If the refective is too close the directional refelction is reduced.

It's nice to be able to remove the walls and work on whatever needs to be done around the plots.

Sorry I forgot to mention the refective before. 6 sheets at 4'x 8' in 2 plots and 4' x 10' in 3 plots with 2 more plots with it on the walls and the interior of a couple of grow cabinets that I built at the start.

The free hanging method is so much easier to work with however. Looks a bit odd but grows are not to be show rooms.

The top lights on two plots are on 4x 4 'picture frames' that can be raised and lowwerd as needed the bulbs and the reflective is attached to the frames. the others hang within the gardens. I find that this is keeping them from stretching as well.

Neat things develop during experiments.

Hopefully this help you a bit.

peace

J

 

[Proverbs]

You could even use dowels above the lamps threaded through and supported by the bird netting on either end like the lamps. 5 dowels inserted in an arc with a piece of mylar placed on top would make a nicely shaped canopy.

On one of the first grows I thought about hot glueing a plastic 'hook' onto the ends of each socket and hanging it on the netting. I like it better than running the bulb through on one hand but don't like the pulling of the netting from one light in relation to the others. Changing the angle of the bulb from level to whatever angle pulled on the netting causing the other bulbs to change orientation in my head. So I didn't do it. Just ran through the netting.

Once your plants are large enough you can just straight drop hang the bulbs.

Also. I'm going to use a 4 x 4 pane of glass and do the sea of green thing we were talking about. Once the plants have 'splaid' themselves I will put in the chicken wire and let the bud internods grow upward while keeping the hieght of the plant very low. Only the bud branches will rise above the screen.

I can see it in my mind and that idea has been in my mind long enough. So I will be doing that plot next.

And it' time to but my nutes in bulk and mix my own. Tired of buying liquid. Gonna try solid I thing. Stealth Hydro nute were really good. So I'm gonna crack the code and bulk purchase my own.

I'll call it 'Justin Jungle Junk' "For those who want to make their own Rock'en Jungle Juice" Another surpirior line form "This Just in !"

I gotta quit thinking so much

 

[FryingPanFlyer]

On one of the first grows I thought about hot glueing a plastic 'hook' onto the ends of each socket and hanging it on the netting. I like it better than running the bulb through on one hand but don't like the pulling of the netting from one light in relation to the others. Changing the angle of the bulb from level to whatever angle pulled on the netting causing the other bulbs to change orientation in my head. So I didn't do it. Just ran through the netting.

Once your plants are large enough you can just straight drop hang the bulbs.

Also. I'm going to use a 4 x 4 pane of glass and do the sea of green thing we were talking about. Once the plants have 'splaid' themselves I will put in the chicken wire and let the bud internods grow upward while keeping the hieght of the plant very low. Only the bud branches will rise above the screen.

I can see it in my mind and that idea has been in my mind long enough. So I will be doing that plot next.

And it' time to but my nutes in bulk and mix my own. Tired of buying liquid. Gonna try solid I thing. Stealth Hydro nute were really good. So I'm gonna crack the code and bulk purchase my own.

I'll call it 'Justin Jungle Junk' "For those who want to make their own Rock'en Jungle Juice" Another surpirior line form "This Just in !"

I gotta quit thinking so much

Hey J, Roseman knows the analysis of the SH nutes, I saw it in one of his old posts, it may not even be here on this site. Send him a pm and he'll let you know what they are. I do like the grow nutes, but I haven't heard much good of the flower. I know Roseman has gone to the AN sensi grow nutes as have I.

And don't you dare quit thinking so much, I love it when you get on a roll!

 

[Roseman]

Hey J, Roseman knows the analysis of the SH nutes, I saw it in one of his old posts, it may not even be here on this site. Send him a pm and he'll let you know what they are. I do like the grow nutes, but I haven't heard much good of the flower. I know Roseman has gone to the AN sensi grow nutes as have I.

And don't you dare quit thinking so much, I love it when you get on a roll!

I just PMed the formula to Proverbs.

I really like the SH nutes, especially for beginners and CFL growers. They are CHEAP, simple, easy to use, need no measuring, and I did 7 grows, 100% with SH nutes. On the 8th grow, I tried ADVANCED NUTRIENTS for Flowering and they were great, but what made them great was they had additional Nitrogen in them, which I like and beleive in, for Flowering..