Skullman420
Well-Known Member
Today - about 24 hours later, the plants look like they're thriving, but what a disgusting smell from the media? Is that supposed to happen?
Building A Better Soil: Demonstrations & Discussions Of Organic Soil Recipes
- Thread starter SweetSue
- Start date
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Decoding the Holy Grail: Terpene and Cannabinoid Retention - Decarb to Extraction
We have a new thread starting this morning that could use some curious minds, and in particular, any test results that speak to the challenges of decarboxylation.
Any and all interested minds are encouraged to join in the exploration as we attempt to get a better handle on decarbing.
We have a new thread starting this morning that could use some curious minds, and in particular, any test results that speak to the challenges of decarboxylation.
Any and all interested minds are encouraged to join in the exploration as we attempt to get a better handle on decarbing.
intuitional
Active Member
This is an outstanding thread. I'm going to be coming back to this and learning a lot for a long time and I hope to be participating as much as possible in the future. I have a question that I hope you fine folks may be able to help me with for my own soil mix....
In my local feed store they have a bag of oyster shell and coral calcium would that work well in a soil mix if I was trying to follow the basic build a soil recipe/general organic soil recipe that is recommended? It has the smaller coral calcium rocks in it as well as the oyster shell shards. I have everything else like basalt, gypsum, glacial rock dust, alfalfa meal, crustacean meal, kelp meal, neem seed meal, and diatomaceous earth. I'll also add in epsom salt to my peat moss and compost with vermiculite/rice hull aeration mix.
If I'm following everything that was laid out that should be decent, am I missing anything? Is the coral calcium/oyster shell ok to use?
In my local feed store they have a bag of oyster shell and coral calcium would that work well in a soil mix if I was trying to follow the basic build a soil recipe/general organic soil recipe that is recommended? It has the smaller coral calcium rocks in it as well as the oyster shell shards. I have everything else like basalt, gypsum, glacial rock dust, alfalfa meal, crustacean meal, kelp meal, neem seed meal, and diatomaceous earth. I'll also add in epsom salt to my peat moss and compost with vermiculite/rice hull aeration mix.
If I'm following everything that was laid out that should be decent, am I missing anything? Is the coral calcium/oyster shell ok to use?
Conradino23
Well-Known Member
I'll try to make it as simple as possible. It really depends on how much calcium and magnesium you already have in your mix. Count it and then come back with numbers.
intuitional
Active Member
I have one 3.8 cubic foot bale of Canadian Peat Moss, an equal amount of compost, and an equal amount of rice hulls and vermiculite as base soil mixture. As far as I understand I add about a half cup per cubic foot of my kelp/alfalfa/crustacean/neem mix and 4 cups per cubic foot of my Diatomaceous Earth/Basalt/Gypsum/Oyster shell and Coral Calcium (if we've deemed it allowable)/Glacial Rock dust. I added in about 5 lbs of epsom salts as well probably more to the mix as well.
Conradino23
Well-Known Member
Re: Building a Better Soil - Demonstrations & Discussions of Organic Soil Recipes
Epsom salts are rich in magnesium, I don't know what's the content, cause I never used them, so you need to bring calcium up to optimal balance. You also need to check how much trace minerals there is in compost, but it's gonna be probably below 0,25%, so it won't matter that much. Anyway calcium to magnesium optimal ratio should be at least 6:1 even better 7:1. Magnesium clumps the soil in abundance while calcium loosens it up.
Ah epsom salts contain magnesium sulphate, which means they break down into magnesium and sulphate in soil. Addition of sulphates is a great idea, but if you whack the mentioned ratio out of balance you're gonna have serious problems!
Epsom salts are rich in magnesium, I don't know what's the content, cause I never used them, so you need to bring calcium up to optimal balance. You also need to check how much trace minerals there is in compost, but it's gonna be probably below 0,25%, so it won't matter that much. Anyway calcium to magnesium optimal ratio should be at least 6:1 even better 7:1. Magnesium clumps the soil in abundance while calcium loosens it up.
Ah epsom salts contain magnesium sulphate, which means they break down into magnesium and sulphate in soil. Addition of sulphates is a great idea, but if you whack the mentioned ratio out of balance you're gonna have serious problems!
kelticBlue
Well-Known Member
Re: Building a Better Soil - Demonstrations & Discussions of Organic Soil Recipes
I dunno, five pounds sounds like a lot. That is one whole bag, Right? Maybe the coral calcium would balance it out but without a soil test hard to say. I have only used epsom as a supplement when needed.
I always forget the optimal ratio & I always forget which clumps and which loosens it up.
Memory is a terrible thing to lose.
One thing I have learned from growing is not to whack the ratio out of balance, less is more for me. It is so hard for me to keep my hands off the grow.
I dunno, five pounds sounds like a lot. That is one whole bag, Right? Maybe the coral calcium would balance it out but without a soil test hard to say. I have only used epsom as a supplement when needed.
. . . Anyway calcium to magnesium optimal ratio should be at least 6:1 even better 7:1. Magnesium clumps the soil in abundance while calcium loosens it up.
. . . but if you whack the mentioned ratio out of balance you're gonna have serious problems!
I always forget the optimal ratio & I always forget which clumps and which loosens it up.
Memory is a terrible thing to lose.
One thing I have learned from growing is not to whack the ratio out of balance, less is more for me. It is so hard for me to keep my hands off the grow.
Conradino23
Well-Known Member
Fortunately Epsom salts got their content declared, so it's enough to bring calcium in any organic form up to balance the ratio adding more peat if necessary to stay under 20% overall calcium ratio. Cooking for 3 months or so should make it good to go 
Wow, that seems like a big batch of soil, and that seems like a whole lot of epsom salts. How many gallons of soil are you making?
intuitional
Active Member
I make a lot of soil at one time. Especially late in the fall I try to cook large amounts of soil so I have a lot of soil available for my winter growing. I'm not sure how much all of that is in gallons though.
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Sorry this got missed so long. Sometimes they'll get lost in a flurry of posts.
The pinch of compost added will nutralize the chloramines within ten minutes. The water is safe to use.
Tony Urban
Well-Known Member
I believe I have some pretty good soil mixed up and ready to go. Clackamas Coots base with few minor tweaks. (Azomite, local clay, diotomecious earth, biochar) I have been reading a lot of things about flushing, or salt buildup, or related comments. Most of these involve soil or soiless mediums and the use of "nutes".
Now, with this beautiful soil ecosystem I think I have created or will when I add the plant, I am curious about these things. Will I have to worry about flushing? Will I still have salt buildup or is that just a bottled nutrient issue? When I feed with compost teas, should I water until it runs out into the pan or give it enough to wet the pot?
Also, while I got ya on the line (that is becoming an age indicating statement), how much of this soil do I pack in a 5g smartpot? How dense should it be? Do I do the same if I am planting direct into 1 gal smartpots?
Just a few things I have been wondering lol
Now, with this beautiful soil ecosystem I think I have created or will when I add the plant, I am curious about these things. Will I have to worry about flushing? Will I still have salt buildup or is that just a bottled nutrient issue? When I feed with compost teas, should I water until it runs out into the pan or give it enough to wet the pot?
Also, while I got ya on the line (that is becoming an age indicating statement), how much of this soil do I pack in a 5g smartpot? How dense should it be? Do I do the same if I am planting direct into 1 gal smartpots?
Just a few things I have been wondering lol
Hey Urban, some great questions. For how much soil should you pack into a 5 gallon pot.....well I recommend you pack it in pretty good as you don't want a great deal of 'settling' which will occur if you don't. If your soil is good and has a fair amount of perlite or other amendments, it should still be pretty easy for the roots to do their thing even if its packed in pretty good.
As for flushing, my recommendation are that if you aren't adding bottled nutes then you probably don't need to flush. I don't flush. Its one of the reasons I selected growing in organic soils. Its my thought that despite the fact the plant starts eating itself the last couple weeks, I want to keep as much of the good stuff in the soil if possible and if I haven't been adding anything else to the soil (which I don't), I shouldn't really have much to flush. This allows my soil to still keep as much good stuff in it right up to the end.
Now I am sure that there might be other growers that feel differently, and might still flush, but thats my take. Good luck Urban!
Timmo
Well-Known Member
If you're not adding bottled salt-based nutes to your soil, then there's nothing to flush. If you're supplementing your soil with bottled organic nutes, there's still nothing to flush, though you should stop adding the nutes for the last two weeks--plain water only.
TheFertilizer
Well-Known Member
Hey guy's wondering if I could get some guidance with mixing my own soil. Not trying to re-invent the wheel or go totally custom, but just trying to work with inputs I can source locally and affordably. This is what I've gone with so far. Trying to mimmick Coot's recipe.
Sunshine Mix 4 with Myco ( 70% Peat Moss, perlite, and dolomite lime)
Super Coarse Perlite
WormGold Plus Earthworm Castings (Plus Kelp Meal and Rock dust)
Down to Earth Bio-Live
Down to Earth Neem-Seed Meal
Down to Earth Azomite
Basically I did...
2/3 Perlite and Sunshine Mix 4
1/3 EWC
into 2.4 cu ft, basically an 18 gallon tote
Into that I mixed 8-9 cups of the Bio-Live, 2 1/4 cups of the Neem-Seed Meal (misread directions, twice as much as box said), and 18 tbsp of the Azomite.
Watered it until it kinda clumped in my hand and then fell apart. Letting it "cook".
So basically I have...
Fish bone meal
Fish meal
Alfalfa meal
Crab meal
Shrimp Meal
Kelp Meal
Langbeinite
Basalt
Leonardite
A bunch of fungi and myccorrhizals
(^All that just in the Bio-Live!^)
Azomite
Neem Seed Meal
Earth Worm Castings ( With "Rock Dust" and Kelp Meal, no more information )
Peat Moss
Perlite
I'm just worried that because I diluted the Sunshine Mix so much that the dolomite lime in it isn't going to do much so far as pH buffering, but from what I understand ( which ain't much ) the microbes and various soil life are supposed to control the pH. Also another reason why I picked Bio-Live, as it seemed like it had a good biological payload in terms of fungi and bacteria.
Anyway, I know it really isn't close to as customized as most people make their soils, but I'm hoping this "custom" mix will feed my plants with just water at least through flower? I was thinking of making a similar mix, but with just the Sunshine, Perlite and EWC for seedlings and younger plants. Maybe just the Peat Moss, but all the bales of that are HUGE and more costly than the Sunshine Mix 4 up front. I just don't have the space to store all that soil, nor the need. So hoping the Sunshine Mix 4 is like a good way to get a mostly Peat Moss base. Will also try to get some compost into the mix when I recycle it, but I haven't even got my bins going.
Thoughts? Questions? Criticisms? Tar and feathers?
Sunshine Mix 4 with Myco ( 70% Peat Moss, perlite, and dolomite lime)
Super Coarse Perlite
WormGold Plus Earthworm Castings (Plus Kelp Meal and Rock dust)
Down to Earth Bio-Live
Down to Earth Neem-Seed Meal
Down to Earth Azomite
Basically I did...
2/3 Perlite and Sunshine Mix 4
1/3 EWC
into 2.4 cu ft, basically an 18 gallon tote
Into that I mixed 8-9 cups of the Bio-Live, 2 1/4 cups of the Neem-Seed Meal (misread directions, twice as much as box said
), and 18 tbsp of the Azomite.Watered it until it kinda clumped in my hand and then fell apart. Letting it "cook".
So basically I have...
Fish bone meal
Fish meal
Alfalfa meal
Crab meal
Shrimp Meal
Kelp Meal
Langbeinite
Basalt
Leonardite
A bunch of fungi and myccorrhizals
(^All that just in the Bio-Live!^)
Azomite
Neem Seed Meal
Earth Worm Castings ( With "Rock Dust" and Kelp Meal, no more information )
Peat Moss
Perlite
I'm just worried that because I diluted the Sunshine Mix so much that the dolomite lime in it isn't going to do much so far as pH buffering, but from what I understand ( which ain't much ) the microbes and various soil life are supposed to control the pH. Also another reason why I picked Bio-Live, as it seemed like it had a good biological payload in terms of fungi and bacteria.
Anyway, I know it really isn't close to as customized as most people make their soils, but I'm hoping this "custom" mix will feed my plants with just water at least through flower? I was thinking of making a similar mix, but with just the Sunshine, Perlite and EWC for seedlings and younger plants. Maybe just the Peat Moss, but all the bales of that are HUGE and more costly than the Sunshine Mix 4 up front. I just don't have the space to store all that soil, nor the need. So hoping the Sunshine Mix 4 is like a good way to get a mostly Peat Moss base. Will also try to get some compost into the mix when I recycle it, but I haven't even got my bins going.
Thoughts? Questions? Criticisms? Tar and feathers?
Conradino23
Well-Known Member
I think it's quite rich. Well with that kind of mixture your main concern is not lack of nutrients, but their excess. I mean plants should grow fine in this as long as their heavy feeders. If you grow more delicate ones some problems may appear. Also your main concern is giving only water throughout, which means you don't want to feed anything. It's definitely doable then with this recipe. I would actually keep off any more ferts. I always advise Brix monitoring, checking growth pattern of the plant and testing the quality in every possible way. You're happy by the end, great! You think it should be improved, you can change your approach in the 2nd run by recycling the soil. BTW if you're good for soil test, take a sample when it's ready and send it to the lab
I think it's quite rich. Well with that kind of mixture your main concern is not lack of nutrients, but their excess. I mean plants should grow fine in this as long as their heavy feeders. If you grow more delicate ones some problems may appear. Also your main concern is giving only water throughout, which means you don't want to feed anything. It's definitely doable then with this recipe. I would actually keep off any more ferts. I always advise Brix monitoring, checking growth pattern of the plant and testing the quality in every possible way. You're happy by the end, great! You think it should be improved, you can change your approach in the 2nd run by recycling the soil. BTW if you're good for soil test, take a sample when it's ready and send it to the lab
One thing he can do with this as it pertains to having too many nutrients is to provide a "soft zone" so to speak. What i mean by this is to provide two different types of "soil" in the pot. What I generally do is I have my nutrient rich soil in the bottom half of my container, and then the top half of the soil is something with a relative low nutrient base (BushDoctor CocoLoco or Roots Organic Soil are my two favorites). What you are doing is you are providing a feeding zone (bottom half of the pot) and then a water zone with very light nutrients (the CocoLoco or Roots Organic). This allows the plant to only take what nutrients it wants/needs from the bottom and still be able to drink all the water in wants in the top half. I have had no trouble using this technique with no grow issues what so ever. The roots slowly work their way into and down the nutrient rich soil as it needs it.
My only recommendation for him is to watch the pH of the water you use. Certainly wouldn't hurt to check the pH of his soil as well. My soil pH is about a 6.5 and since my tap water is horrible on pH (9.1), I pH it down using a product called Earth Juice crystals....it will pH the water but won't bother the good stuff in my living soil the way most pH down will. So I pH my water to about 6.5 and I never have any issues at all.
TheFertilizer
Well-Known Member
I think it's quite rich. Well with that kind of mixture your main concern is not lack of nutrients, but their excess. I mean plants should grow fine in this as long as their heavy feeders. If you grow more delicate ones some problems may appear. Also your main concern is giving only water throughout, which means you don't want to feed anything. It's definitely doable then with this recipe. I would actually keep off any more ferts. I always advise Brix monitoring, checking growth pattern of the plant and testing the quality in every possible way. You're happy by the end, great! You think it should be improved, you can change your approach in the 2nd run by recycling the soil. BTW if you're good for soil test, take a sample when it's ready and send it to the lab
I think it would be pretty cool to send it in for analysis, who does that for you?
I was also worried about it being too rich for my ACE Sativa hybrid. It's Panama x Malawi, I don't know that either one is a particularly heavy feeder, but right now I have them in Happy Frog soil in solo cups and they have not liked being fed so it would say they feed a lot less heavy than the other indicas and hybridized strains I've ran.
I was thinking about making the same mix but minus the Bio-Live and Neem Seed Meal, just the EWC and Sunshine 4 basically, and using that for planting while they're young and then transplant into this stuff when they're more mature. Also thought I'd be accomplishing what Van Stank was talking about by doing so.
Yeah I plan on doing some slurry tests. I have a soil pH meter but it's not very accurate. Hopefully if I send it in for analysis they can tell me the pH of it as well.
I use the Earth Juice crystals as well. I use their line of nutrients. I like them but I'm just tried of mixing bottles. I know it sounds lazy, but I get real sick sometimes, and it's like the last thing I want to do but has to get done, so switching to a soil I won't have to feed will already have one major benefit for this med grower. For that reason I'd really like it to do its own pH buffering too, but at least pH'ing water isn't that bad.
Conradino23
Well-Known Member
Landrace sativas are light feeders, they grow best in High Brix soil!
I don't add anything but water throughout my entire grow. I just water with adjusted pH'd water around 6.5-7.0. I don't blame you at all for wanting to ditch the nutrients all together. I want as close to "no maintenance" on my grows as I can get. I would much rather spend the time in my garden training the plants than trying to figure out what to feed them.