Building A Better Soil: Demonstrations & Discussions Of Organic Soil Recipes

[Heirloom]

Thanks Robert, the aloe is very important, lol. Dried peat in a pot sucks to try to hydrate. Top dressing the minerals to combat fungus gnats is a great tip too. And again for the feed store alfalfa. I don't actually use 'meal'. I buy pellets from my feed store. In fact I know some lady's who would like the alfalfa tea I have made for them.

 

[Robert Celt]

Morning Heirloom, its pellets I get as well I just soak them in water for a few hours until they swell and then use them

 

[olderthandirt]

Heirloom, Robert.... why do you say do not use dolomite?
I've seen this point raised before and I'll be switched if I understood the discussions.

google the search term "agricultural lime vs dolomite lime" and after reading pages of discussions from suppliers and forums all I'm getting is that the aglime is primarily calcium and dolomite is calcium with magnesium.

So what is the drawback in using dolomite?

I am so close to seein' the handle I want to grab hold of to start to think I'm gettin' a clue (-;

Thanks

 

[Robert Celt]

Good morning olderthandirt

Dolomitic lime contains Mg as you mentioned. The problem is that the ratio of Ca:Mg is to high on the Mg side.

Dolomitic lime has a ratio of approximately 2:1 Ca:Mg

The above post on soils, I offered for Jeff, is based on cation exchange. Which is a technical term for how nutrients are made available for plant uptake. Think of it as a chess board with 100 spaces, where each space is occupied by something the plant can use.

Research in the 40's found that for optimal growth, 65% of the available space should be Calcium, 10% should be Magnesium, 5% should be Potassium and the remaining 20% open for the other nutrients needed by the plant. This gives a ratio of 13 : 2 : 1 for Ca:Mg:K.

Further research allowed for a "range" of ratios allowing for between 6:1 to 4:1 Ca:Mg ratios. Consider the chess board analogy above where the magnesium is a more powerful piece than the calcium. When the ratios are outside of the range above, magnesium will displace the calcium making it unavailable to the plant.

Dolomitic lime with a 2:1 ratio falls outside of the range and can cause calcium lockout. By using agricultural lime and Epsom salt, we can fine tune the ratio into the recommended range

As a side note, potassium is a more powerful player than both magnesium and calcium, and levels of potassium that are too high will cause lockout of both.

I hope I explained that in a way that is easily understood by all, regardless of their scientific background

RC

 

[Heirloom]

I was all geared up to make another long post, but now I don't have to. Thanks RobertCelt!

Yeah, 2:1 Ca:Mg is a problem. Besides above mentioned lockouts, too much Mg will tighten the soil. Funny thing is CalMag is the same ratio, so the hydro growers can chase their tails on that one too. Don't even talk to the Coco guys about Ca.....

I'll quote ClackamasCoot on Mg.....

Let's look at Chlorophyl in all forms......
Chlorophyll a - C55 H72 O5 N4 Mg - i.e. a single Magnesium ion
Chlorophyll b - C55 H70 O6 N4 Mg - single Magnesium ion
Chlorophyll c1 - C35 H30 O5 N4 Mg - single Magnesium ion
Chlorophyll c2 - C35 H28 O5 N4 Mg - single Magnesium ion
Chlorophyll d - C54 H70 O6 N4 Mg - single Magnesium ion
Chlorophyl f - C55 H70 O6 N4 Mg - single Magnesium ion

Can anyone explain the claim about 'Magnesium hungry' strains?


……. damage/problems with excessive levels of Magnesium go far beyond that - like tightening the soil making aeration and water flow difficult, reducing the CeC index by as much as 40% - just for starters.......

 

[olderthandirt]

... cation exchange. Which is a technical term for how nutrients are made available for plant uptake.

I've come across cation exchange several times.
Got the concept but I remain just dense enough to be not able to base actions on the concept. Just when I thought I was old enough to put away the books and be blissfully igorunt, ya draw me back in!

... magnesium will displace the calcium making it unavailable to the plant.

Dolomitic lime with a 2:1 ratio falls outside of the range and can cause calcium lockout. By using agricultural lime and Epsom salt, we can fine tune the ratio into the recommended range

As a side note, potassium is a more powerful player than both magnesium and calcium, and levels of potassium that are too high will cause lockout of both.

OK
The various approaches to soil "recipes" I've seen start making more sense.

I hope I explained that in a way that is easily understood by all, regardless of their scientific background

RC

Oh yeah, yer good Robert.
So good in fact I'll be goin' back to the great google machine and revisiting cation exchange.

It is just a weed and I don't want to fall prey to over-thinking.
But I do look forward to a good harvest next year without using the bottled stuffs. Well, other than the occasional bottle o' beer mebbe (-;

Your time, and you as well Heirloom, is appreciated, thank you!

OTD

 

[Heirloom]

Tip your beer bottle into the soil mix. Your soil likes it too.

Cheers!

 

[Heirloom]

One of my favorite saved 'lite reads'

Cation Exchange Capacity in Soils, Simplified
©2007-2014 by Michael Astera
All rights reserved

The Ideal Soil: A Handbook for the New Agriculture

Chapter 2
Cation Exchange Capacity in Soils, Simplified
(Revised April 2014)

Adsorb vs Absorb

adsorb(ad sôrb, -zôrb), v.t. Physical Chem. to gather (a gas, liquid, or dissolved substance) on a surface in a condensed layer: Charcoal will adsorb gases .

Please note the definition above, taken from the large hardbound version of the Random House Second Edition Unabridged Dictionary. It's not absorb, it's adsorb , with a "d". We all know that a sponge absorbs water, a cast iron pot absorbs heat, a flat-black wall absorbs light. None of those gathers anything on the surface in a condensed layer, they soak it right in, they absorb it.

Adsorb is different, because it means to gather on a surface in a condensed layer. This is pretty much the same thing as static cling, like when you take a synthetic fabric out of the clothes dryer and it wants to stick to you. You don't absorb a nylon blouse, you adsorb it. Everyone got that? Good. On to Cation Exchange Capacity.

The Exchange Capacity of your soil is a measure of its ability to hold and release various elements and compounds. We are mostly concerned with the soil's ability to hold and release plant nutrients, obviously. Specifically here today, we are concerned with the soil's ability to hold and release positively charged nutrients. Something that has a positive (+) charge is called a cation, pronounced cat-eye-on. If it has a negative charge (-) it is called an anion, pronounced ann-eye-on. (Both words are accented on the first syllable.) The word "ion" simply means a charged particle; a positive charge is attracted to a negative charge and vice-versa.

Positively charged particles are known as cations. There are two types of cations, acidic or acid-forming cations, and basic, or alkaline-forming cations. The Hydrogen cation H+ and the Aluminum cation Al+++ are acid-forming. Neither are plant nutrients. A soil with high levels of H+ or Al+++ is an acid soil, with a low pH.

The positively charged nutrients that we will be discussing here are Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium and Sodium. These are all alkaline cations, also called basic cations or bases. Both types of cations (alkaline or acidic) may be adsorbed onto either a clay particle or soil organic matter (SOM). All of the nutrients in the soil need to be held there somehow, or they will just wash away when you water the garden or get a good rain storm. Clay particles generally have a negative (-) charge, so they attract and hold positively (+) charged nutrients and non-nutrients. Soil organic matter (SOM or just OM) has both positive and negative charges, so it can hold on to both cations and anions.

Both the clay particles and the organic matter have negatively charged sites that attract and hold positively charged particles. Cation Exchange Capacity is the measure of how many negatively-charged sites are available in your soil.

The Cation Exchange Capacity of your soil could be likened to a bucket: some soils are like a big bucket (high CEC), some are like a small bucket (low CEC). Generally speaking, a sandy soil with little organic matter will have a very low CEC while a clay soil with a lot of organic matter (as humus) will have a high CEC. Organic matter (as humus) always has a high CEC; with clay soils, CEC depends on the type of clay.

Base Saturation %

From the 1920s to the late 1940s, a great and largely un-sung hero of agriculture, Dr. William Albrecht, did a lot of experimenting with different ratios of nutrient cations, the Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium and Sodium mentioned above. He and his associates, working at the University of Missouri Agricultural Experiment Station, came to the conclusion that the strongest, healthiest, and most nutritious crops were grown in a soil where the soil's CEC was saturated to about 65% Calcium, 15% Magnesium, 4% Potassium, and 1% to 5% Sodium. (No, they don't add to 100%; we'll get to that.) This ratio not only provided luxury levels of these nutrients to the crop and to the soil life, but also strongly affected the soil texture and pH.

The percentage of the CEC that a particular cation occupies is also known as the base saturation percentage, or percent of base saturation, so another way of describing Albrecht's ideal ratio is that you want 65% base saturation of Calcium, 15% base saturation of Magnesium etc. Don't get too hung up on these percentages; they are general guidelines and can vary quite a bit depending on soil texture and other factors.

It's still a little-known fact that the Calcium to Magnesium ratio determines how tight or loose a soil is. The more Calcium a soil has, the looser it is; the more Magnesium, the tighter it is, up to a point. Other things being equal, a high Calcium soil will have more Oxygen, drain more freely, and support more aerobic breakdown of organic matter, while a high Magnesium soil will have less Oxygen, tend to drain slowly, and organic matter will break down poorly if at all. In a soil with Magnesium higher than Calcium, organic matter may ferment and produce alcohol and even formaldehyde, both of which are preservatives. If you till up last years corn stalks and they are still shiny and green, you may have a soil with an inverted Calcium/Magnesium ratio. On the other hand, if you get the Calcium level too high, the soil may lose its beneficial granulation and structure and the excessive Calcium will interfere with the availability of other nutrients. If you get them just right for your particular soil, you can drive over the garden and not have a problem with soil compaction.

Because Calcium tends to loosen soil and Magnesium tightens it, in a heavy clay soil you may want 70% or even 80% Calcium and 10% Magnesium; in a loose sandy soil 60% Ca and 20% Mg might be better because it will tighten up the soil and improve water retention. If together they add to 80%, with about 4% Potassium and 1-3% Sodium, that leaves 12-15% of the exchange capacity free for other elements, and an interesting thing happens. 4% or 5% of that CEC will be filled with other bases such as Copper and Zinc, Iron and Manganese, and the remainder will be occupied by exchangeable Hydrogen , H+. The pH of the soil will automatically stabilize at around 6.4 , which is the "perfect soil pH" not only for organic/biological agriculture, but is also the ideal pH of sap in a healthy plant, and the pH of saliva and urine in a healthy human.

So we are looking at two new things so far:

1) The Cation Exchange Capacity, and
2) The proportion of those cations in relation to each other: the percent of base saturation (% base saturation) and their effect on pH.
We are also looking at two old familiar things, clay and soil organic matter, and these last two need a bit more clarification.

How Clay and Humus Form

Clay particles are really tiny. They are so small that they can't even be seen in most microscopes. They are so small that when mixed in water they may take days, weeks, or months to settle out, or they may never settle out and just remain suspended in the water. A particle that remains suspended in water like this, suspended but not dissolved, is known as a colloid. Organic matter, as it breaks down, also forms smaller and smaller particles, until it breaks down as far as it can go and still be organic matter. At that stage it is called humus , and humus is also a colloid; when mixed into water humus will not readily settle out or float to the top. Colloids, because they are so small, have a very large surface area per unit volume or by weight. Some clays, such as montmorillonite and vermiculite, have a surface area as high as 800 square meters per gram, over 200,000 square feet (almost five acres) per ounce! The surface area of fully developed humus is about the same or even higher. Other clays have a much lower surface area; some clays actually have a very low exchange capacity, while humus always has a high exchange capacity.

Mineral soils are formed by the breakdown of rocks, known as the parent material. Heating and cooling, freezing and thawing, wind and water erosion, acid rain (all rain is acid; carbon dioxide in the air forms carbonic acid in the rain), and biological activity all break down the parent material into finer and finer particles. Eventually the particles get so small that some of them re-form, that is they re-crystallize into tiny flat platelets and become colloidal clay, made up mostly of silica and alumina clay particles aggregated into thin, flat sheets that stack together in layers.

Clay "History"

How old a soil is usually determines how much clay it has. The more rainfall a soil gets, the faster it breaks down into clay. Arid regions are mostly sandy and rocky soil, unless they have areas of "fossil" clay. River bottoms in arid regions will often have more clay because the small clay particles wash away easily from areas without vegetation cover. As noted above, clays tend to stick together in microscopic layers. Newly formed clays will often be made up of layers of silica and alumina sandwiched with potassium or iron. On these young clays, the only available exchange sites are on the edges. As the clays age, the "filling" in the sandwich gets taken out by acid rain or soil life or plant roots, opening up more and more negatively charged exchange sites and increasing the exchange capacity. Eventually these clays become tiny layers of silica and alumina separated by a thin film of water. These are the expanding clays; when they get wet they swell, and when they dry out they shrink and crack deeply. Because these expanding clays have exchange sites available between their layers and not just on the edges, they have a much greater exchange capacity than freshly formed clays.

One of the fastest ways to age a clay and reduce the soil's exchange capacity is to use Potassium Chloride fertilizer, KCl. KCl does this by refilling the space between the clay layers with locked-in Potassium and by damaging the edges of the clay layers so that the exchange sites are no longer available. KCl is the cheap Potassium fertilizer used in most commercial mixes; not only does it destroy the exchange capacity of your soil, but the high Chlorine content kills off soil life. It is difficult to have a mineral balanced, biologically active, healthy soil if one is using much Potassium chloride.

In the southern half of the USA, the age of the clay fraction of the soil generally increases going from West to East. The arid regions, from California to western Texas, are largely young soils, containing a lot of sand and gravel and some young clays without a lot of exchange capacity. The central regions, from West-central Texas and above into Oklahoma, Kansas, and Nebraska, contain well-developed clays with high CEC. Moving East, the rainfall increases, the soils are older, and the clays are generally aged and have lost much of their ability to exchange cations. Across Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia the clays have been rained on and leached out for millions of years. Their reserves of Calcium and Magnesium are often long gone. The northern tier states, from Washington in the West to Pennsylvania and New York in the East were largely covered with glaciers as recently as 10,000 years ago, which brought them a fresh supply of minerals, and clays of high exchange capacity are common.

Organic Matter and Humus

Regarding soil organic matter (SOM) and humus, obviously any area that gets more rainfall tends to grow more vegetation, so the fraction of the soil that is made up of decaying organic matter will usually increase with more rainfall. Breakdown of organic matter is largely dependent on moisture, temperature, and availability of oxygen. As any of these increase, the organic matter will break down faster. Moisture and oxygen being equal, colder northern areas will tend to build up more organic matter in the soil than hotter southern climates, with one extreme being found in the tropics where organic matter breaks down and disappears very quickly, and the other extreme being the vast, deep peat beds and "muck" soils of some North temperate climates. As always, there are exceptions, such as the everglades of Florida, where lack of oxygen combined with stagnant water have formed the largest peat beds in the world; the area around Sacramento California is another example: there were muck (peat) soils 100 feet deep when that river delta was first farmed by European settlers.

Ordinary organic matter from the compost or manure pile, or the remains of last years' crops, doesn't have much exchange capacity until it has been broken down into humus, and from what we know, the formation of humus seems to require the action of soil microorganisms, earthworms, fungi, and insects. When none of them can do anything with organic matter as food anymore, it has become a very small but very complex carbon structure (a colloid) that can hold and release many times its weight in water and plant nutrients. The higher the humus level of the soil, the greater the exchange capacity. One way to increase humus in your soil is by adding organic matter and having healthy soil life to break it down or to add a soil amendment such as lignite (also known as Leonardite), a type of soft coal that contains large amounts of humus and humic acids. If the mineral balance of the soil is optimal, especially with an adequate supply of Sulfur, any fresh organic matter grown in or added to the soil will tend to form stable humus. Without balanced minerals and adequate Sulfur, much of the organic matter will decompose completely and be off-gassed as ammonia and CO2.

Variable Exchange Capacity

Humus can have an exchange capacity greater than even the highest CEC clays, but it is a variable exchange capacity that correlates with soil pH. In soils with a pH below 6 there will be an excess of H+ ions in the soil/water solution and many of the negative – exchange sites will be occupied by acidic cations such as Al+++ and Fe++. As soil pH increases due to added Ca, Mg, K, and Na, these Al and Fe ions will combine with negatively charged OH- ions in the soil-water solution, forming insoluble Aluminum and Iron oxides and freeing up the negatively charged sites on the humus to play a role in nutrient exchange. A high-organic-matter soil will have a low “effective” exchange capacity at low pH, because many of the negative exchange sites will be filled with tightly bound Al and Fe. Adding base cations, especially Calcium, will raise the pH and the Calcium++ ions will displace the Al and Fe with “exchangeable” Ca.

OK, let's pull this information together. We have discovered that:

1) Alkaline soil nutrients, largely Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium, and Sodium, are positively charged cations (+) and are held on negatively charged (-) sites on clay and humus.

2) The amount of humus, and the amount and type of clay, determine how much Cation Exchange Capacity a given soil has.

3) We have also discussed the ideal base saturation percentages of these nutrients which according to the work of Professor Albrecht, is approximately:

65% Ca (Calcium)
15% Mg (Magnesium)
4% K (Potassium),
1-3% Na (Sodium)

4) We have talked a little about the effect of those ratios on soil texture and pH and why they are not hard and fast "rules".

The next step is to understand how the plant, and the soil life, gets those nutrients from the exchange sites, the "exchange" part of the story.

Trading + for +

In the same way that acid rain can leach cations from the soil, plants and soil microorganisms more or less "leach" the cation nutrients from their exchange sites. These alkaline nutrients are only held on the surface with a weak, static electrical charge, i.e. they are "adsorbed". They are constantly oscillating and moving a bit, pulled and pushed this way and that by other charged particles (ions) in the soil solution around them. What the plant roots and soil microorganisms do is exude or give off Hydrogen ions, H+ ions, and if these H+ ions are in high enough concentration in the soil solution that some of them surround the nutrient cation and get closer to the negatively (-) charged exchange site than the nutrient cation is, the H+ ions will fill the exchange site, neutralize the (- ) charge, and the nutrient cation will be free of its static bond and can then be taken up by the plant or microorganism.

The way this works specifically with plant roots and microbes is that they expire or breathe out carbon dioxide into the soil. This carbon dioxide (CO 2 ) combines with water in the soil and forms carbonic acid (H 2 CO 3 ); the H+ Hydrogen ions from the carbonic acid are what replaces the cation nutrient on the exchange site. A Calcium ion that is held to the exchange site has a double-positive charge, written Ca++. When enough H+ ions surround it that some of them get closer to the exchange site than the Ca++ ion is, two H+ ions replace the Ca++ ion and the plant or microbe is free to take the Ca++ up as a nutrient.

How the CEC is measured, and what to do with that information once you have it.

Exchange capacity is measured in milligram equivalents, abbreviated ME or meq. A milligram is of course 1/1000th of a gram, and the milligram being referred to is a milligram of H+ exchangeable Hydrogen. The comparison that is used is 1 milligram of H+ Hydrogen to 100 grams of soil. If all of the exchange sites on that 100 grams of soil could be filled by that 1 milligram of H+, then the soil would have a CEC of 1. One what? One ME, one milligram equivalent (meq), the ability to adsorb and hold one milligram of H+ Hydrogen ions.

Let me repeat that: 100 grams of a soil with a CEC of 1 could have all of its negative (-) exchange sites filled up or neutralized by 1/1000th of a gram of H+ exchangeable Hydrogen. If it had a CEC of 2, it would take 2 milligrams of Hydrogen H+, if its CEC was 120 it would take 120 milligrams of H+ to fill up all of the negative (-) exchange sites on 100 grams of soil.

The "equivalent" part of ME or meq means that other positively (+) charged ions could be substituted for the Hydrogen. If all of the sites were empty in that 100 grams of soil, and that soil had a CEC of 1, 20 milligrams of Calcium (Ca++), or 12 milligrams of Magnesium (Mg++), or 39 milligrams of Potassium (K+) would fill the same exchange sites as 1 milligram of Hydrogen H+.

Why the difference? Why does it take 20 times as much Calcium as Hydrogen, by weight? It's because Calcium has an atomic weight of 40, while Hydrogen, the lightest element, has an atomic weight of 1. One atom of Calcium weighs forty times as much as one atom of Hydrogen. Calcium also has a double positive charge, Ca++, Hydrogen a single charge, H+, so each Ca++ ion can fill two exchange sites. It only takes half as many Calcium ions to fill the (-) sites, but Calcium is 40 times as heavy as Hydrogen, so it takes 20 times as much Calcium by weight to neutralize those (-) charges, or 12 times as much Magnesium, atomic weight 24 (Mg++, also a double charge), or 39 times as much Potassium+. (Potassium's atomic weight is 39, and it has a single positive charge, K+, so it takes 39 times as much K+ as H+ to fill all the exchange sites, once again by weight.) The amount of + charges, the quantitiy of atoms, of K+ or H+, is the same.)

What We Have Learned

We have now learned the basics of CEC, cation exchange, in the soil.

1) Clay and organic matter have negative charges that can hold and release positively charged nutrients. (The cations are adsorbed onto the surface of the clay or humus) That static charge keeps the nutrients from being washed away, and holds them so they are available to plant roots and soil microorganisms

2) The roots and microorganisms get these nutrients by exchanging free hydrogen ions. The free hydrogen H+ fills the (-) site and allows the cation nutrient to be absorbed by the root or microorganism.

3) The unit of measure for this exchange capacity is the milligram equivalent, ME or meq, which stands for 1 milligram (1/1000 of a gram) of exchangeable H+. In a soil with an exchange capacity (CEC) of 1, each 100 grams of soil contain an amount of negative (-) sites equal to the amount of positive (+) ions in 1/1000th of a gram of H+.

 

[jeffsmith]

Thank you very much

I will do some googling and report back.

What's is spr?

Also what amounts of everything.are.you using? And I will try and calculate it up to my batch size

Many more thanks!

 

[olderthandirt]

One of my favorite saved 'lite reads'

Cation Exchange Capacity in Soils, Simplified
©2007-2014 by Michael Astera
All rights reserved

The Ideal Soil: A Handbook for the New Agriculture

Chapter 2
Cation Exchange Capacity in Soils, Simplified
(Revised April 2014)
....

LOL!
That page is where I've been for the past while. heh-heh, great minds and google (-;

 

[jeffsmith]

Welcome to Jeff You've come to the right place, there is a wealth of knowledge and helpful members here

I will see if I can help answer some of your questions

You are planning on using peat for a base, this is good but you need to consider a couple of things using peat.

1: Peat is not easy to "wet out" which means that once dried, it prefers to stay dry and does not absorb water easily. Therefore, it is helpful to add a wetting agent. If you are wanting to stay organic, mix Aloe with your water (either plant or powdered) to wet the peat.

2: Peat has a low pH, typically about 4.3, this is much to low for growing in and will need to be amended to raise it into the 6.5 range. To do this, add approximately 545g (19 oz) of agricultural lime (as Heirloom said, avoid Dolomitic lime) per 3.8 cuft bale of peat.

To this add 3.2Kg (7 lbs) of Epsom salt per 3.8 cuft bale, this may seem like a lot but its based on the actual weight of the Magnesium in the salt which only accounts for a small percentage of the total weight. This will put the Calcium/Magnesium ratio in the proper range.

This will give you a good base will lots of Calcium with is good for plant growth and as a buffer against wide pH swings.

Next I will give you approximate weights of amendments to add to this base (per 3.8 cuft bale of peat) Some of which will add more Calcium to the mix which is OK because a high Calcium soil tends to promote healthy plants.

The worm castings are OK in the ratio you mentioned as they have various nutrient levels depending on the source.

=> Blood meal: 500g (1 lb)

=> Bone meal: 2x the Blood meal

=> Basalt dust/Green sand...unless you intend to recycle your soil, don't bother. They are a slow release/long term amendment and the minute amounts released during a single grow are not worth the time/money. I do use rock dust as a top dressing for indoor grows to prevent fungus gnats from being able to lay eggs and breed.

=> Dolomitic lime...Don't use

=> Kelp meal...great micro nutrient amendment, use approximately 4 kg (9 lbs) per bale

=> Oyster shell...use the flour if available, faster release. Can be substituted with powdered eggshell. Approximately 1-2 cups

=> Crab/Crustacean meals...the main reason for this is not the nutrients, but rather the chitin in the shells. As it breaks down it release a chemical that attacks fungus and the shells of unwanted visitors like fungus gnat larvae.

=> Neem cake/meal...I don't use it, I try to source all my amendments locally rather than have it shipped in. It is an excellent amendment though for various reasons, use at approximately 10% by weight.

=> Diatomaceous earth...the single reason to use as an amendment is for the silica content. Silica promotes strong stems and stalks. As Heirloom mentioned, some have had poor experiences with it acting like a glue. I have not run into this problem and use about 1kg (2.2 lbs) per bale of peat.

=> Guano I don't use, not needed with the other amendments and can't source locally.

=> rice I don't use for the same reasons.

Now I will add some options you don't have on your list.

=> Alfalfa meal...can be sourced quite cheaply at most any feed mill/feed store. I buy 25kg (55 lb) bags for $20 at a local feed mill. It is a good organic source of Nitrogen, Potassium and various micro nutrients and helps "loosen" the soil. Use at about 3kg (6.5 lbs) per bale.

=> Used coffee grounds...used the same as alfalfa meal for the same reasons. Can be sourced at local coffee shops (such as Starbucks) often free.

Note: when using amendments such as: coffee grounds, alfalfa meal, neem meal, kelp meal, etc...you need to cook the soil for a minimum of 2 weeks or until you can put your hand deep into the soil and it feels cool. These amendments generate heat while breaking down and get hot enough to kill plant roots.

As for your AACT...as Heirloom said, don't bother with rock dust, replace it with alfalfa meal if you can source it.

Keep in mind that all these are based on weights, and weights given are based on the average weight of a 3.8 cuft bale of peat, therefore are approximate rather than exact figures.

Hope this helps in your search If you have other questions, don't hesitate to shout out

RC

Hi and thanks so much
As for the alloe do i use it every water?or just once so it's in there? Also how much say per ltr of water or can I just add the powder to the soil mix?
Is basalt rock dust and green sand the same thing? Yes I will be reusing
And yes I plan on cooking.it
I will have a ring/look around over.here Monday morn and report back
Cheers and.Thank to you !
I

 

[Heirloom]

Thank you very much

I will do some googling and report back.

What's is spr?

Also what amounts of everything.are.you using? And I will try and calculate it up to my batch size

Many more thanks!

SRP = Soft rock phosphates. A Phosphorus option and can be replaced with other sources.

I think Robert Celts reply covered it well on the application rates.

Welcome to Jeff You've come to the right place, there is a wealth of knowledge and helpful members here

I will see if I can help answer some of your questions

You are planning on using peat for a base, this is good but you need to consider a couple of things using peat.

1: Peat is not easy to "wet out" which means that once dried, it prefers to stay dry and does not absorb water easily. Therefore, it is helpful to add a wetting agent. If you are wanting to stay organic, mix Aloe with your water (either plant or powdered) to wet the peat.

2: Peat has a low pH, typically about 4.3, this is much to low for growing in and will need to be amended to raise it into the 6.5 range. To do this, add approximately 545g (19 oz) of agricultural lime (as Heirloom said, avoid Dolomitic lime) per 3.8 cuft bale of peat.

To this add 3.2Kg (7 lbs) of Epsom salt per 3.8 cuft bale, this may seem like a lot but its based on the actual weight of the Magnesium in the salt which only accounts for a small percentage of the total weight. This will put the Calcium/Magnesium ratio in the proper range.

This will give you a good base will lots of Calcium with is good for plant growth and as a buffer against wide pH swings.

Next I will give you approximate weights of amendments to add to this base (per 3.8 cuft bale of peat) Some of which will add more Calcium to the mix which is OK because a high Calcium soil tends to promote healthy plants.

The worm castings are OK in the ratio you mentioned as they have various nutrient levels depending on the source.

=> Blood meal: 500g (1 lb)

=> Bone meal: 2x the Blood meal

=> Basalt dust/Green sand...unless you intend to recycle your soil, don't bother. They are a slow release/long term amendment and the minute amounts released during a single grow are not worth the time/money. I do use rock dust as a top dressing for indoor grows to prevent fungus gnats from being able to lay eggs and breed.

=> Dolomitic lime...Don't use

=> Kelp meal...great micro nutrient amendment, use approximately 4 kg (9 lbs) per bale

=> Oyster shell...use the flour if available, faster release. Can be substituted with powdered eggshell. Approximately 1-2 cups

=> Crab/Crustacean meals...the main reason for this is not the nutrients, but rather the chitin in the shells. As it breaks down it release a chemical that attacks fungus and the shells of unwanted visitors like fungus gnat larvae.

=> Neem cake/meal...I don't use it, I try to source all my amendments locally rather than have it shipped in. It is an excellent amendment though for various reasons, use at approximately 10% by weight.

=> Diatomaceous earth...the single reason to use as an amendment is for the silica content. Silica promotes strong stems and stalks. As Heirloom mentioned, some have had poor experiences with it acting like a glue. I have not run into this problem and use about 1kg (2.2 lbs) per bale of peat.

=> Guano I don't use, not needed with the other amendments and can't source locally.

=> rice I don't use for the same reasons.

Now I will add some options you don't have on your list.

=> Alfalfa meal...can be sourced quite cheaply at most any feed mill/feed store. I buy 25kg (55 lb) bags for $20 at a local feed mill. It is a good organic source of Nitrogen, Potassium and various micro nutrients and helps "loosen" the soil. Use at about 3kg (6.5 lbs) per bale.

=> Used coffee grounds...used the same as alfalfa meal for the same reasons. Can be sourced at local coffee shops (such as Starbucks) often free.

Note: when using amendments such as: coffee grounds, alfalfa meal, neem meal, kelp meal, etc...you need to cook the soil for a minimum of 2 weeks or until you can put your hand deep into the soil and it feels cool. These amendments generate heat while breaking down and get hot enough to kill plant roots.

As for your AACT...as Heirloom said, don't bother with rock dust, replace it with alfalfa meal if you can source it.

Keep in mind that all these are based on weights, and weights given are based on the average weight of a 3.8 cuft bale of peat, therefore are approximate rather than exact figures.

Hope this helps in your search If you have other questions, don't hesitate to shout out

RC

 

[jeffsmith]

Thanks again

As for the 3.8 cubic feet bale.
I googled the conversion to litres = 107 lets
But is the bale compressed? So holding much more?
The peat I get is loose on a truck. And the minimum I can get is 6 to 7000 lets.
Just thought this may mAke a difference to how much Amendments I add?
Thanks again

 

[Heirloom]

As for the 3.8 cubic feet bale.
I googled the conversion to litres = 107 lets
But is the bale compressed? So holding much more?
The peat I get is loose on a truck. And the minimum I can get is 6 to 7000 lets.
Just thought this may mAke a difference to how much Amendments I add?

A compressed bale is reported to be about 8cf. (228.5 L) Mr. Celt gave per bale numbers.

Is basalt rock dust and green sand the same thing? Yes I will be reusing

Basalt and Greensand are not the same thing, but in the same category of amendments. And neither should be confused with SRP (soft rock phosphate).

 

[Robert Celt]

Hello Jeff

If you are getting loose peat, use those measurements are for approximately 8 cuft or 225 litres. Compressed peat expands to roughly a little over double the volume. Just for a quick guide, a typical wheel barrow is 3 cuft or about 85 liters.

As for using the aloe, if you can get powdered, basically follow the directions that comes with it. If using raw plant aloe, I am guessing in saying that 50ml per liter of water should suffice. The other organic option that I forgot about is "soap nuts", google them

When making your soil, add the lime and Epsom salt to your peat and mix well. Then add the wetting agent (water and aloe or water and soap nuts) to get it well wetted but not too soggy. You need to do this first to ensure you have the "exchange sites" loaded with the proper ratio of Ca and Mg prior to adding your other amendments. You may get away with adding and mixing all the amendments prior to adding water, I have done this with success But its better at load up the Ca and Mg first.

As for your question concerning rock dust vs green sand, they both serve essentially the same purpose, and I would opt for the rock dust. Rock dust can be obtained from any rock quarry that is granite or basalt. It is the by product of screening the stone after being crushed and graded. It is often referred to as crusher dust or stone dust and for the quantities most of us would be using, most quarries will give it to you

As a note to others reading this, the weights of amendments I gave above are specific to using peat and will not suit other forms of soil. The CEC mentioned above by Heirloom has to known for the type of soil that you are working with to get the proper ratios.

RC

 

[Robert Celt]

BTW Heirloom, very good article concerning CEC and why we build soils the way we do

I started a thread a while ago called Soil Science 101 on here for friends looking to get into organic growing, maybe at some point when I have time, we could collaborate on starting a 2nd thread for more advanced soil science, like we have been discussing here, for members looking to delve deeper into the subject.

 

[Robert Celt]

OTD, I am glad you found that helpful and sorry I was the reason you had to go "back to the books" LOL

 

[Heirloom]

I'm subb'd to your thread too. Feel like it would have been a better place for a post like that.

Sounds fun my friend.

 

[jeffsmith]

You guys are awesome I will be back after more googling and research
I can't.Thank you enough!!!!!!

Thank you for you time and info

 

[Robert Celt]

Sue one of these days, you are going to hit me with that wand of yours, rattle my brain and knock me out into left field