Building A Better Soil: Demonstrations & Discussions Of Organic Soil Recipes

[Robert Celt]

Hey Emilya

I have watched a number of SubCool's videos and think he's a decent guy As for his recipe, there's nothing wrong with it, it does a good job and works well.

But many are leary of ordering things online, have problems with Bat Guano's sustainability etc,etc ,etc LOL

For me, it was none of the above, I thought about using his recipe, but I found much cheaper amendments locally to use

If you want, read the article "Soil Science 101" in my signature. In it I broke down some of SubCool's recipe and offered cheaper alternatives that can be bought dirt cheap at a feed mill. For example, I can buy 50lbs of alfalfa pellets for $20 CDN. As for the worm castings, I love them for amendments but they are expensive so I set up my own worm farm LOL

Some of the other alternative amendments are things you have around the house LOL

 

[Robert Celt]

On a side note Emilya, I do have a problem with how SubCool suggests layering the soil. He suggests full strength at the bottom of the pot and lighter strength at the top. In recent years, its been shown that the majority of the nutrient uptake by cannabis occurs in the top 6" or so of soil and that wider, shallower pots produce better plants. That's why when you see LARGE plants in some of SubCool's videos and Jorge Cervantes videos, they are in large diameter shallow grow bags or shallow boxes.

This year I grew in 15-20gal grow bags set into the ground. After pulling them recently, I tend to agree with Jorge's opinion of the top 6" or so being the most productive area. There were large roots in the bottom, but the finer feeder roots were mostly in the top 6-8" of the bags and I didn't feed or water any of them. I left them for ole Mamma Nature to tend LOL

 

[Emilya Green]

On a side note Emilya, I do have a problem with how SubCool suggests layering the soil. He suggests full strength at the bottom of the pot and lighter strength at the top. In recent years, its been shown that the majority of the nutrient uptake by cannabis occurs in the top 6" or so of soil and that wider, shallower pots produce better plants. That's why when you see LARGE plants in some of SubCool's videos and Jorge Cervantes videos, they are in large diameter shallow grow bags or shallow boxes.

This year I grew in 15-20gal grow bags set into the ground. After pulling them recently, I tend to agree with Jorge's opinion of the top 6" or so being the most productive area. There were large roots in the bottom, but the finer feeder roots were mostly in the top 6-8" of the bags and I didn't feed or water any of them. I left them for ole Mamma Nature to tend LOL

I study roots. I have been fascinated in how roots develop and grow within containers, and I tend to agree with you about short squat containers, but knowing how the roots work gives us an advantage in working with them. There are clearly 2 sets of highly specialized roots in a container grow. You end up with the fine mesh of roots in the top and highly specialized feeder roots at the bottom. I have catered to both in my mix... lots of nitrogen and compost for the top roots... all the super nutrients in the bottom layer for the bottom feeder roots. It seems to work:

Also, keep in mind that after doing this layering in 3 successive up-pottings, I now have little layers of supersoil all throughout my final 5 gallon container... from a little layer solo cup sized, to the next at 3q and now 1/3 of the bottom of my 5 gallon... that stuff is everywhere now.

 

[Robert Celt]

That's a good idea Emilya

For me, I use DIY fabric grow bags indoors and out. Because they air prune the roots that grow outside of the soil/bag and force lateral rooting, my root balls look very different. I don't get that mass of larger roots circling the bottom of my indoor plants. The root ball tends to look more like a mass of steel wool LOL with the greater density in the top 1/2 of the pot, much like the roots of my outdoor girls were this year. Because of this pruning action, I only up pot twice. The seedlings go into coco pots, which act much like fabric grow bags, which get put into 1 gallon grow bags once the roots are exploding out of the sides of the pots. After a few weeks, once I feel they have filled out the soil with root mass, I transplant into whatever final size bag I intend to use.

I could probably put the coco cups directly into the final size bag but some habits are hard to break, and I know from experience that the girls would put most of their energy into building their root system rather than above soil growth

 

[Heirloom]

Really subcool, cootz and most other recipes sort of dance around the same basic pattern.

Compost/Humus
Worm Castings
Aeration
Clay or 'top soil'

Amend with your choices from the wide, wide world of macro and micro nutrient sources, humic substances and biological inoculates.

Ask what the best soil mix is and you will get varied answers. The only true answer we can give you is whatever soil mix works for you and what ever brings you the results you're looking for.

 

[Robert Celt]

And again Heirloom hits the nail on the head

 

[Radogast]

I picked up this freebie fungi cocktail last week at the Maximum Yield indoor gardening show.

I'm normally just a straight Glomus intraradices guy.

Should I toss this in some soil, the worm trays or just toss it?

P.S. I have another fungi cocktail freebie that doesn't even have Glomus intraradices.

 

[Robert Celt]

Hey, its made for plants, follow the directions and try it on a plant and see if it makes a difference

 

[TheRoach]

Yes, that looks promising!

 

[Heirloom]

I'd be happy to evaluate your freebies!

 

[SweetSue]

Excellent discussion going on here guys. That was exciting to read. Emilya, I had a thought that wanted to be shared. Looking at your roots it occurred to me that

1. Doc Bud would never be happy with a root ball that looked like that. He shoots for that "steel wool" look TheCelt gets with his bags.

2. The reason we want those tiny roots is that we're growing in containers, in many cases with accelerated timelines. There's no need for specialized deep-running roots. We went out of our way to include those nutrients typically found deep in a natural setting, in the soil mix, so it's right there at the doorstep of the plant. We want the plant to have the greatest opportunity for exchange capacity. That means all the small roots we can grow.

Your plants are growing in a manner that pleases you, so no reason to change, is there? Just food for thought.

You guys amaze me. Sometimes I stand back and just shake my head at the brilliance I often find myself surrounded by. This community gardening approach we have here rocks!

 

[Robert Celt]

Thanks for the REPS Sue I don't do any of this for recognition though.

I believe in sharing experiences, knowledge and research with the community to benefit the community I don't believe there is any RIGHT way to grow, but by sharing we gain options so we can each find what works best for us and in turn gives us all the chance to become better gardeners

 

[SweetSue]

The goal is to grow cleaner, more potent meds with less stress. That means set the ego aside and be creative. It works so well here.

 

[Heirloom]

Thanks for the REPS Sue I don't do any of this for recognition though.

I believe in sharing experiences, knowledge and research with the community to benefit the community I don't believe there is any RIGHT way to grow, but by sharing we gain options so we can each find what works best for us and in turn gives us all the chance to become better gardeners

Oh, I totally do it for the recognition. I thought we all did. LOL.

I think I posted in one of Sues threads a little while back that I realized I was sort of a BORG when it came to gardening 'style'. Assimilating knowledge from all aspects and fitting it together in ways that work.

And thank you Sue for the reps and kind words. It only crackles around me when I forget to ground whatever I'm trying weld on....lol. That's not going to make much sense to anyone else.

 

[Robert Celt]

Makes sense to me Heirloom LOL

Crackling is one thing, standing on a bared ground cable while fitting a new rod is a hair raising experience for those of us who have done it, ALWAYs pay attention to what you are doing LOL

 

[Heirloom]

Oh noooos.

 

[Robert Celt]

LOL even when your mind wanders as bad as mine, that is ONE experience not likely to be repeated LOL

 

[SweetSue]

Guys, I'm out in public. People are wondering why I'm laughing so hard!

 

[Robert Celt]

Tell them the voice in your head told you a joke, then see what kinda looks you get

 

[Heirloom]

Hey Emilya
I can buy 50lbs of alfalfa pellets for $20 CDN.

I like that you sourced feed stock. WAY cheaper. I found it here for about $14US. Building on that theme I wondered if throwing in something like a sweet mix (all stock) in a batch of soil prior to composting would benefit. Might really super charge the process. It's a mix of various oats, corn and a bit of molasses.

You can buy kelp meal at feed stores too. The only brand I know is Tasco. It's right in your neighborhood TheCelt! Comes in 25Kg bags.

ACADIAN SEAPLANTS LIMITED
30 Brown Avenue, Dartmouth,
Nova Scotia

Also, I found at Tractor Supply they have brix 82 molasses by the gallon for $10US. Marketed as a sweet treat for deer and such. Not a bad price if you're buying molasses.