Building A Better Soil: Demonstrations & Discussions Of Organic Soil Recipes

[LungButter420]

great read. Figure'd I'd sub

Is CC's soil reusable? Do you have to re-amend the soil after each run? If i understand correctly, you shouldn't (except for maybe some trace minerals) as the teas and drenches resupply the soil with the proper nutrients. Still starting to grasp the concept of the gardener growing the soil and letting the soil grow the plant.

Thanks for any help in advance

LB 420

 

[Radogast]

great read. Figure'd I'd sub

Is CC's soil reusable? Do you have to re-amend the soil after each run? If i understand correctly, you shouldn't (except for maybe some trace minerals) as the teas and drenches resupply the soil with the proper nutrients. Still starting to grasp the concept of the gardener growing the soil and letting the soil grow the plant.

Thanks for any help in advance

LB 420

I have 4 months on my CC soil, some on my second plants, nothing but water (except a worm poop/compost tea at planting time or after the soil gets too dry.)
I plan to do worm castings as a top dress soon. I hope to run my cc-mix for 2-3 years From reports, this seems possible.

 

[SweetSue]

great read. Figure'd I'd sub

Is CC's soil reusable? Do you have to re-amend the soil after each run? If i understand correctly, you shouldn't (except for maybe some trace minerals) as the teas and drenches resupply the soil with the proper nutrients. Still starting to grasp the concept of the gardener growing the soil and letting the soil grow the plant.

Thanks for any help in advance

LB 420

It's evolution in action, the natural way things were meant to grow. To answer your question, the CC recipe is one we use in our no-tills. My no-till just got planted with its 4th consecutive tenant. I harvested this morning by clipping the plant above the soil line and then popped another seed right into the pot. I have a schedule of about 8 amendments I regularly add to my pot every week, and then I occasionally topdress with vermicompost and a few other things now and then.

It's all very casual and easy to run. You can add teas if you want or not, if that's your choice. But with regular attendance of vermicompost my no-till will run indefinitely. We're beginning to see gardeners rebuild their soils after 3-4 years, when the aeration components begin to break down enough that compaction begins to occur.

It's all in building a better soil. It's also in utilizing the power of worms. But if you build a better soil, give the plant good water, and surround your plant with light you will harvest better buds. It's pretty much what we all do. And it's so easy you won't believe it. No measuring nutrients or monitoring PH, no fear of deficiencies, no flushing. Plant, water, harvest.

When you're ready we'll be here to help you.

 

[LungButter420]

It's evolution in action, the natural way things were meant to grow. To answer your question, the CC recipe is one we use in our no-tills. My no-till just got planted with its 4th consecutive tenant. I harvested this morning by clipping the plant above the soil line and then popped another seed right into the pot. I have a schedule of about 8 amendments I regularly add to my pot every week, and then I occasionally topdress with vermicompost and a few other things now and then.

Exactly, the natural way things were meant to grow, that's what led me to this method! True organics IMO. i have learned an enormous amount and couldn't be more thankful for people here on 420 for sharing

You popped another seed in while keeping the old plant's roots in the pot?! That seems too easy...

Also Sue, when you say you have 8 amendments you add every week, I'm a little confused (perhaps a little too baked). could you elaborate? I thought all the amendments would be added to the soil at the time of the soil mix and after each harvest, if additional amendments are needed. Would you care to share those 8 amendments you use to keep you soil thriving after a harvest (or whenever you feel the soil is lacking)?

Hopefully these aren't dumb questions. Thanks for help in advance

LB 420

 

[bobrown14]

That's a thing of beauty BB. DYI?

Yes DIY but I bought it from Tim the Microbeman - I figured I could build one no problem but he builds them and sells them so my way of giving back and getting something in return - win win. I got everything in the pic sans the $2.50 HD bucket and lid!! Not too bad a deal.
Everything else we need is in the worm bin!!

 

[iwltfum]

We're beginning to see gardeners rebuild their soils after 3-4 years, when the aeration components begin to break down enough that compaction begins to occur.

I run no-till in my raised beds and have never had to take the soil out and rebuild it for the last 7 years. I'm confused as to why it would be necessary to rebuild your soil by taking it out of the pot. If you keep adding fresh nitrogen and carbon (properly made compost) and calcium on top, then the top dressings, including the aeration components that they provide, should work their way down into the soil over time. Plus the old roots should provide a good amount of aeration. I guess the one thing that might cause aeration problems would be the lack of live worms in the soil, which seems like it might be impossible to maintain since they will leave the planter every time it drys out a little.

 

[bobrown14]

Exactly, the natural way things were meant to grow, that's what led me to this method! True organics IMO. i have learned an enormous amount and couldn't be more thankful for people here on 420 for sharing

You popped another seed in while keeping the old plant's roots in the pot?! That seems too easy...

Also Sue, when you say you have 8 amendments you add every week, I'm a little confused (perhaps a little too baked). could you elaborate? I thought all the amendments would be added to the soil at the time of the soil mix and after each harvest, if additional amendments are needed. Would you care to share those 8 amendments you use to keep you soil thriving after a harvest (or whenever you feel the soil is lacking)?

Hopefully these aren't dumb questions. Thanks for help in advance

LB 420

There is ORGANIC and something else... there is no Kinda organic or "natural" it's either organic or not organic, black and white there's no in between. You use salts for fertilizer that is NOT organic, I don't give a rats ass what anyone tries to tell you or me.

CC mix can be used no-til and results have been consistent in that each successive round our harvest improves. My last round 5-6 generation clones went from 45" tall to well over 7' tall with size of buds keeping pace with size of plant. Amazing really.

To get a grasp on organically grown just take a walk in the forest and really look around, look closely at the worm castings next to old dead logs - that there is black gold and our main active ingredient in our CC mix. You don't need to have a worm bin, you dont even need to purchase worm castings, just go for a walk in the woods/forest with a bucket and a scoop. This is the time of year to collect worm castings in the woods. The worms are almost done eating and digesting and pooping out last falls leaves. So now you can see all the hard work and collect some for yourself and your gardens. Five minutes and you have a 5 gallon bucket full, enough to make a mix for several large no-til pots. Add in some aeration and CSPM with some minerals, there's your organic soil mix.

Take a look at my journal pics for the last run - I've automated the watering enough to go on vacation 2X this run once for 17 days and other for 7 days (out of country). So out of a 75 day flower cycle we've been away for 24 days with a SUPER harvest of premo buds. I'd stack em up against anything you can purchase at a dispensary 100%. Thats in a grow tent no fancy anything AND the least expensive LED lights I could find!

See the analogy to the forest?? No one is out there feeding the trees or the bushes other than the earth worms!! Symbiotic relationship that we try and emulate in the grow tent. The reasoning for adding minerals is in a forest the fauna/rain water are constantly breaking down rocks into minerals for the soil and microbes to feed the plants and trees. The only difference is the types of microbes in the soil in the forest. They cater to the trees and are more hyphae/mushroom oriented but there's still a lot of bacteria there.

When we do an ACT we are growing bacteria AND hyphae that help feed the plant but live in the soil. Hence the saying; feed the soil not the plant. That means we are feeding the microbes/hyphae in the soil that work in a symbiotic relationship with the plants roots.

When folks start adding in "fertilizer" to "feed" the plant what actually happens is the "fertilizer" kills the microbes and hyphae in the soil that the plant needs and depends on to survive and is replaced with something (mainly salts) the plant can uptake directly. You might as well grow hydro instead of wasting good soil.

Compare hydro grown tomatoes to organically grown tomatoes, WHOLE different result there. Why you don't see as much hydroponic tomatoes in the store this time of year. They cannot compare or compete with organic soil grown tomatoes. Everyone knows this and this is the same with canna there's absolutely no difference in that analogy. Again anyone that says different is absolutely wrong on any/every account.

<begin soapbox>

The ONLY reason for all that fancy bottled nutrients/fertilizer is to get a hold of your hard earned cash, the ONLY reason for that garbage they call "nutrients".

Mark my words here - the company that invented Round-up for corn (Monsanto) will soon be heavily invested in the canna market and be selling you the pest/weed/fertilizer/seed YOU need to have a successful canna crop!! They have already seen the future of what they started with Round-up and have largely gotten out of that market. The next cash crop for Monsanto to control is Cannabis. Vote early vote often and keep it green.
</end soapbox>

 

[TheRoach]

I dont get why everybody insists fertilizers are "plant food" be it bottled hydro stuff or compost/soil mix.
No matter how marvelously alive your soil is, it is not feeding your plant.
No matter how expensively engineered the hydro nutrients are, they are not feeding your plant.
Plants dont obtain their food using their roots; roots are for water, salts and minerals. (Even in nature, nutrients are salts)
Plants obtain their food using the leaves.
Plants feed on light.
Also, the hairs that grow from the calyxes are called PISTILS. Plants dont have pistols, they dont need guns....
If you refer to guerrilla growing as "gorilla growing" you better stop smoking cannabis.

Sorry I had to take that out of my chest!

 

[Heirloom]

If you refer to guerrilla growing as "gorilla growing" you better stop smoking cannabis.

Sorry I had to take that out of my chest!

I'm guessing I caused this outburst. I take full responsibility for it. I was rushed and spell check accepted it, never even thought about it. I read it later and was ashamed. And it was too late for me to edit it. So there it is. My shame immortalized.

 

[TheRoach]

Haha no bro! Not at all. I hadnt seen your comments. I was looking for some info in the net and I kept on finding pistols, gorillas and plant food. Ugh

But if you felt guilty, repenting helps.
Regards and reps + for the good laugh

 

[Heirloom]

Well then..... nothing to see here. Move along.

 

[iwltfum]

Mark my words here - the company that invented Round-up for corn (Monsanto) will soon be heavily invested in the canna market and be selling you the pest/weed/fertilizer/seed YOU need to have a successful canna crop!!
</end soapbox>

Monsanto bought General hydroponics and Vermicrop Organics in April under the company name Hawthorn Garden Group (or something like that). They tried to keep it really quiet -pretty successfully.

 

[TheRoach]

Oh snap!

 

[SweetSue]

Exactly, the natural way things were meant to grow, that's what led me to this method! True organics IMO. i have learned an enormous amount and couldn't be more thankful for people here on 420 for sharing

You popped another seed in while keeping the old plant's roots in the pot?! That seems too easy...

Also Sue, when you say you have 8 amendments you add every week, I'm a little confused (perhaps a little too baked). could you elaborate? I thought all the amendments would be added to the soil at the time of the soil mix and after each harvest, if additional amendments are needed. Would you care to share those 8 amendments you use to keep you soil thriving after a harvest (or whenever you feel the soil is lacking)?

Hopefully these aren't dumb questions. Thanks for help in advance

LB 420

I do two drenches a week with my no-till. These get applied every week no matter what, all the way through the life cycle of the plant, because it's the soil you're feeding. The soil feeds the plant. You replenish the stores. I'm out right now, but when I get home I'll dig up the links for the recipes. Basically I'm adding aloe vera juice, coconut water, FullPower fulvic acid, humic acid, malted barley grain, Agsil16, kelp meal and something that I can't think of now. These are added lightly and consistently, although you can miss without any problems.

These additives keep things clicking along smoothly. I'll post the recipes later.

 

[SweetSue]

Haha no bro! Not at all. I hadnt seen your comments. I was looking for some info in the net and I kept on finding pistols, gorillas and plant food. Ugh

But if you felt guilty, repenting helps.
Regards and reps + for the good laugh

Me too. +reps for proper contrition.

 

[SweetSue]

I run no-till in my raised beds and have never had to take the soil out and rebuild it for the last 7 years. I'm confused as to why it would be necessary to rebuild your soil by taking it out of the pot. If you keep adding fresh nitrogen and carbon (properly made compost) and calcium on top, then the top dressings, including the aeration components that they provide, should work their way down into the soil over time. Plus the old roots should provide a good amount of aeration. I guess the one thing that might cause aeration problems would be the lack of live worms in the soil, which seems like it might be impossible to maintain since they will leave the planter every time it drys out a little.

I was thinking about this since I posted it and what you say makes perfect sense to me. I dug into my own no-till for the very first time recently to plant a scallion and I was blown away by the quality and friability of the soil. I have a healthy worm population in that pot. Those worms should keep everything nicely aerated I would think. My pot's only been running for a year now. I'm thrilled to hear yours has been running for 7. +reps for the all-important share.

 

[SweetSue]

Here you go LB. I have this page in my blog and I've reprinted the amendments section.


STEP THREE: CONTINUOUSLY AMENDING THE SOIL
This is my dream watering schedule. For my grow it wasn't necessary to water from the top once I installed the SWICK system, so this became my plan for drenches.

Water seedlings with coconut water or rainwater only.

The watering/amending schedule is done consistently, regardless of where the plant is in its life cycle.

Two to three waterings a week (basically every other day: I did twice a week)
- one enzyme tea watering (measurements for one gallon)
* 1 TBS sprouts, puréed
* 10 ml Fulpower fulvic acid
* 5 ml Agsil

I've modified this one because I no longer bubble the malted barley grain. It works just as well to grind the grain into a powder, sprinkle it on the soil and water in with the rest of the scheduled amendnents that would have been added to the tea. There are many other sprouts that can benefit the soil though, corn being an important one.

- one rainwater watering
- one coconut/aloe watering
* 1/4 c fresh, young coconut water
* 1/4 tsp 200x aloe vera powder
* 5 ml Agsil
Repeat indefinitely.

Every three weeks add 1/4 tsp TM7 to 2-1/2 gallons water.

Beginning when there are four nodes, add bio accumulator teas.

With new soil do weekly application of two alternating teas
- 2-3 tsp neem meal + 1-2 tsp kelp bubbled in a half gal water for 24 hrs.
* dilute to make 2.5 gal water
* add 1/4 tsp aloe + 10 ml fulpower per gallon
- same measurements using alfalfa instead of neem

The estimated minimal cost of beginning this regime:
- $ 15 Malted barley (2.5 pounds; 4 oz/cup)
- $ 22 Coconut Water Powder (1/2 # = 75 gal @ 1/4 c. per gal.)
- $ 22 200x aloe powder
- $ 26 Fulpower (quart)
- $ 14.20 Agsil (pound)
- $ 13 TM7 (100 gm bag)
- $ 13 Neem/karanja (2.5 # = 5-6 cups)
- $ 14.06 Kelp meal (3# = 6 cups)

There are many plant-based amendments that can be used to fill the voids until you can afford to get these items picked up. For example, it's possible to substitute corn meal, molasses, kelp, equisetum, or camomile for plant immunity in place of neem/karanja, although you should eventually purchase them. Camomile in particular is legendary for its immunity properties. Sprouted corn can be substituted for coconut water to supply cytokinins.

Notes on this list of amendments:
- Priority should be given to coconut water, aloe vera juice and kelp meal
- Secondary priority to Fulpower (fulvic acid) and malted barley grain
- Third would be neem/karanja meal, TM7 and Agsil

 

[LungButter420]

Sue,

Couldn't thank you enough for all the information you've provided. Today I started reading "Teaming with Microbes" The soil food web is fascinating even for an engineer I've noticed you can get a good majority of these things off BuildAsoil, so I'll have to make a big order here soon. From what I can tell, they have a bunch of quality products that go right along with feeding the soil instead of feeding your plant. I'd like to eventually build an entire garden using LOS. Once again, thanks so much for your help and I look forward to more learning

LB 420

 

[SweetSue]

Sue,

Couldn't thank you enough for all the information you've provided. Today I started reading "Teaming with Microbes" The soil food web is fascinating even for an engineer I've noticed you can get a good majority of these things off BuildAsoil, so I'll have to make a big order here soon. From what I can tell, they have a bunch of quality products that go right along with feeding the soil instead of feeding your plant. I'd like to eventually build an entire garden using LOS. Once again, thanks so much for your help and I look forward to more learning

LB 420

Glad we could help you. I envy you the book. I've had it on my list waiting for mad money for months now. When money came in it went to setting up the grow. Now I'm on hold for the book again. Enjoy it. What I have read was great stuff.

 

[Tomster420]

As promised Sue, here is my first attempt at a living organic soil ecosystem. Let the scrutiny begin haha!

Okay so here is my soil mix;
*25L Seedling soil
*5L Perlite
*8 cups of rock/mineral dust (2 of which is pure quartz). The rock dust and quartz will be acquired from a local dry riverbed, which we will bring home and boil in hot water to kill any baddies in it, then we will further crush to make it as fine as possible.
*15-20 Organic spirulina vitamins (finely ground)
*1 cup of white beans (finely ground)
*3 heaped tbs of the following (all finely ground)
-fine dry coconut
-Corn (non-gmo)
-Rice (non-gmo)
*1 heaped tbs of himalayan rock salt (finely ground)
*1/2 cup of Eco-Neem
*1 tbs eco-seaweed
*1 1/2 cups of crustacean meal
*1 tbs All natural greek yoghurt (diluted in 500ml of de-clorinated water)
*1 1/2 cups egg shells and epsom salts (finely ground)
I hope this all intrigues you in a good way

Now here is my version of the teas, haha i know i'm trying my own teas i'm a madman! I like to experience things a bit differently so hopefully it works out

Tea 1: 3L coconut water, 3ml of both organic grow/bloom (all sources of this food is derived from NATURAL SOURCES, its from holland and they know their shit lol)
Tea 2: 3L coconut water, 3ml eco-neem, 1/4 cup of aloe vera juice, 1/3 tsp eco-seaweed (or 1.5g if you have the scales )
Tea 3: Rain water or de-chlorinated water (if rain water is unavailable)

Enjoy everyone! I hope you enjoy my twist on this amazing ecosystemal growing style, have a great day/night Peace, love and Light