Any oxidizing agent
sodium citrate is not an emulsifier. It is apH buffer and has minimal, emulsification ability. It will not strip terpenes or other oil soluble parts of the trichomes.
Bud Washing
- Thread starter Hiker
- Start date
Oh, I found this:
"Sodium Citrate is also used as an emulsifier for oils in the cheesemaking process."
Sodium Citrate - The Chemical Company
Chemical Name: Sodium citrate (Trisodium citrate) CAS Registry Number: 68-04-2 Synonyms: 1,2,3-Propanetricarboxylic acid, 2-hydroxy-, trisodium salt; Citric acid, trisodium salt; Sodium citrate; Sodium citrate anhydrous; Trisodium citrate; Citrato de trisodio, dihidrato; Citrate de trisodium...
thechemco.com
It’s not really an emulsifier. Try it for yourself. Add sodium citrate to water and add any oil (olive, for instance). Shake it up. If it separates, it’s not emulsified. I can tell you that it will not emulsify the oil. It is much more effective as a pH buffer in cheeses. It helps the rennet to react with the milk proteins. The pH is very important in cheese making to form a proper curd. If the pH is too high or too low, the curds will be weak or way too hard. I also make mozzarella at home. Citric acid is used as well as acetic acid for mozzarella curds. Sorry for being off topic.
I'll give that a try tonight! What's the downside to mixing them if the resulting chemicals won't do any harm to the flowers?
No harm. Just rinse it off.
I'd rinse off no matter what!
It is the acid from the lemon juice reaction with the base in the baking soda which creates the foaming action. This foaming action is actually a very gentle scrubbing of the surface of the buds and leaf material. Then the material is rinsed to remove all the loosen up dirt, dust, old dead plant material, any small pieces of trimmed plant material, dead bugs, live bugs, bug eggs, insect frass, chlorophyll that leaked out of the plant material, and of course any small particles of baking soda. Two rinses are plenty but if someone wants to do another one that is up to them.
My feeling is that this process does not break off enough tricomes to be noticeable.
There more I think about this, the more I like it. I already spray my plants sometimes with a soap wash to combat bugs and I can see how something designed to clean could work quite well for this application.
But, a few questions:
- How would soap compare to the standard baking soda and lemon juice combo? Would you think one would be more effective than the other, and why?
- What recipe would be best (soap:water)
- Would you change anything about the process like time spent in the wash bucket? Or hang it for a bit before the rinse to let the soap do its thing?
- I assume we are talking about true soaps here (those with "potassium salts of fatty acids" in the ingredient list) and not detergents like Dawn Dishwashing Liquid.
I know the original approach was lifted from the home washing/rinsing of vegetables and so there's nothing necessarily specifically related to cannabis to use those two particular inputs, and also the OP of the technique cautioned not to use standard commercial vegetable washing liquids since those can contain compounds that might melt the trichomes.
I know we can use soaps to combat bugs right up through harvest so the trichimes should be safe in this application as well. I've got a harvest coming up this weekend for a grow that had mites so I'm definitely doing a wash of some sort.
I would look for a soap/detergent that doesn’t precipitate with hard water. I personally prefer Dawn detergent (not a natural soap, but a detergent). I use a teaspoon to each gallon of water. It’s very mild and rinses out totally. Natural Soaps will precipitate with hard water leaving a residue. You don’t want soapy tasting buds.
Lemon juice and baking soda won’t clean as well, but rinses out completely, too. I’m not saying it’s ineffective, but most of the recipes I see use way too much lemon juice and a boat load of baking soda. You don’t want to use high concentrations of an solution.
A single wash with the detergent solution should be followed by two clean water rinses.
Soak time depends on how dirty your flower is. If it’s really gross, replace the wash periodically.
I'd be concerned about Dawn and plant oils, since it's designed to "take grease out of your way"!
It’s risk/reward. Some bug crap isn’t going to get washed away without some emulsifier. That’s why I use such a small amount. Look, there are going to be dozens of different opinions on this. Same for fertilization, soil composition, etc.. In the end, it’s up to you and what you feel comfortable with. I’m giving you my position. It not the only one that will work. It’s best to get educated on different approaches and use the method that makes sense to you.
What about using Dr. Bonner’s instead of Dawn? CL
It’s a blend of potassium soaps. The only down side is if you use hard tap water to rinse. If you use RO water, it should work well.What about using Dr. Bonner’s instead of Dawn? CL
Tennessee Tim
Well-Known Member
I wash indoor grown plants only when they need it, and bugs resulted in safe organic treatments being used, to wash the residues away. I sometimes add a bit of lemon juice, it appears optional, for results are similar/same. I use buckets of cold water, changing them often as needed. Our very humid climate needs very good air circulation and probably good to use dehumidifier until the leaves surfaces are dry. I use well water that is relatively soft. Years ago, I washed outdoor plants covered in dust and insect debris and hung them till surfaces dried with very good ventilation and a dehumidifier until the excess moisture was gone. I have never had any problems with bud washing. If any chemical pesticides were used throw the plants away, washing may not remove all the poisons.
Good point. Thanks for that.
And there in lies the rub. Dunking a soapy bud stick into the rinse bucket will then make that rinse bucket soapy, defeating the purpose. Probably better to treat it like one would for spraying for bugs and just spray it down with the soapy water while it's still standing in the pot and then spray again really well with clean water for the rinse. The good news is that you wouldn't have to wait for it to dry like you do when treating for bugs.
Hmmm. I'll have to ponder that for a bit, but I think I'll just do the tried and true baking soda/lemon juice bud wash this round. I'll use a fresh box of baking soda and higher quantities of each and see if I can get the bubbling action I hear so much about...
I think the motion of dunking up and down might release more of the dried on bugs with the weight of the water than a simple spray might.
Yes, there are probably thousands of variations that people might like to try. The important part of this thread is that the lemon juice and soda works very well. It's proven. With a few rare exceptions, people have been happy with the method.
So, of course, people are entitled to do whatever they want to their plants. Ima keep washing my produce the way that has been proven to work.
Jus' saying'.
Well said, and nice to see you around!
Did my bud wash today. Used a new box of baking soda and 100% real lemon juice from concentrate. Same result, no foaming bubble action. The wash bucket was suitably dirtier than when when started so that's good, but I don't know why I don't get the same action you guys get. I think I'll have a look at some videos to see what I should be looking for.
Mabye I'll try something different next round like the organic soap idea if I can get comfortable about the rinse aspect.
Mabye I'll try something different next round like the organic soap idea if I can get comfortable about the rinse aspect.
Do you have hard water? I’m trying to figure out why it’s not foaming to. Looks like we have a mystery on our hands. lol CLDid my bud wash today. Used a new box of baking soda and 100% real lemon juice from concentrate. Same result, no foaming bubble action. The wash bucket was suitably dirtier than when when started so that's good, but I don't know why I don't get the same action you guys get. I think I'll have a look at some videos to see what I should be looking for.
Mabye I'll try something different next round like the organic soap idea if I can get comfortable about the rinse aspect.
Not really sure. Never had it tested. What are the tells?