Bud Washing

[Azimuth]

The acid provided by the lemon juice reacts with the base of the baking soda creating a foaming or bubbling as they neutralize each other. This bubbling is allowing the baking soda to gently scrub small particles of dirt or dust from the surface of the buds and any sugar leaves.

I din't get the foaming action when I mixed the two. Is it possible I need more of the lemon juice?

 

[greenjeans]

I din't get the foaming action

Are you adding it to the water - or adding it together before much water is in the bucket?? If it is well diluted it may not foam up much.

 

[reciprocity74]

I live in California, Rh has been 55 to 62 outdoors and indoors I grow outdoors and don't mess with tents, etc. The lemon juice and soda kill the smell of my buts, As I already told you I do the same method without lemon juice and they smell divine. Thanks for the comment though. I think lemon juice is a great idea if you are concerned about pest for mildew. There is no difference in the left over water from buds I rinse in lemon juice vs plain water. all clean

I'm in Canada and the RH swings all over the place at this time of year...Temperature has also been week to week.

I guess results are going to vary based on all the many factors involved for each person's harvest. This time by far, my most grimy discarded water came from the lemon juice and baking soda bucket.

I read somewhere through the thread that you should get the baking soda in and mixed, add the lemon juice, another quick mix, and then get at the washing promptly to make the best use of the active mixture.

Depending on the volume of material you have to process, and how much debris needs to have removed...at some point you would have to refresh the bucket with a fresh mixture to ensure you are getting the best cleaning action.

The hay smell should reduce over time from some of the articles I read via Google searches, but the potency level of the buds may be lower. I hope things work out for you LKV. Cheers!

 

[Azimuth]

Are you adding it to the water - or adding it together before much water is in the bucket?? If it is well diluted it may not foam up much.

I add it directly to the water. Baking soda first then lemon juice. I've not seen anywhere to add them together in a separate container before adding the water. Have I missed an important instruction?

 

[greenjeans]

Have I missed an important instruction?

I don't know - I just know that when I mixed mine together with just a little water it really foamed up. I don't think the foaming action would last long enough to be an important factor in the washing process. But then again, I'm only an expert in my own mind!!! If the foaming was important I would spray with lemon juice, sprinkle with baking soda and dunk - not practical - but a fun experiment!!!!

 

[GratefulBud]

I add it directly to the water. Baking soda first then lemon juice. I've not seen anywhere to add them together in a separate container before adding the water. Have I missed an important instruction?

From what I have read on this thread and elsewhere, you are correct. Add baking soda to water and mix well, then add the lemon juice (or citric acid). In my experience the lemon juice and baking soda did not foam much, however when I recently used citric acid it foamed quite a bit.

I recently dried in a fridge and buds are now in jars getting burped twice daily for another few days, then will burp once per day.

 

[Azimuth]

Ok, thanks, @GratefulBud . Maybe I'll try the citric acid. Not sure if lemon juice loses its kick over time or not. Wouldn't think so, but who knows. I had mites this last round and want to make sure I get all of the benefits of the wash, and foaming sounds to me like it is doing something my normal mix doesn't.

 

[SmokingWings]

I din't get the foaming action when I mixed the two. Is it possible I need more of the lemon juice?

Maybe I'll try the citric acid. Not sure if lemon juice loses its kick over time or not. Wouldn't think so, but who knows.

Sorry about the delay in getting back to your first question. I included the second related comment. Did a bit of googling 'baking soda' and 'lemon juice'. Looked up whether they became less acidic or less base and checked on info about what reduces their potency, etc.

Baking soda will change over time and the pH will drop from the 8 it started off at. Over time the pH drops but it does not "go bad" as in becoming unhealthy. Most references put the shelf life at 6 up to 12 months after the box or can is opened. After that the stuff will not work as well which can be a disaster when using it for baking and other cooking. Humidity is mentioned as what causes this and I figure that is because the humidity mixes with carbon dioxide in the air forming a mild diluted acid.

Lemon juice will maintain its acidity of about 2 pH until it is mixed with a base or mixed into water. Then it's pH can quickly climb. In other words it quickly becomes less of an acid when pouring into a bucket of water. If using lemon juice from a bottle do not buy the really inexpensive stuff. I have read the labels on some of the really low priced lemon juice and it often is a different acid than citric with lemon flavoring added. I experimented with some of the low price 'artificial' lemon juice and it did not work well at all.

Suggestions include being sure the baking soda was recently bought and the box recently opened. Be sure that the lemon juice is really lemon juice. Even the lower priced bottles of store brand juice worked well as long as they claimed 100% lemon juice and the listing of ingredients started off with water and real lemon juice concentrate. Adding in that not enough of the baking soda and/or lemon juice will cause next to no reaction so try increasing the amounts.

I usually put the water into the bucket then add the plant material and swish around. Then add the baking soda and swish around and while the water is swirling around start to pour in some lemon juice. I don't measure anymore and add ingredients by some sort of instinct kinda like the way some old cooks will no longer use measuring spoons or cups for for the family recipes they have been cooking up year after year.

 

[GratefulBud]

Ok, thanks, @GratefulBud . Maybe I'll try the citric acid. Not sure if lemon juice loses its kick over time or not. Wouldn't think so, but who knows. I had mites this last round and want to make sure I get all of the benefits of the wash, and foaming sounds to me like it is doing something my normal mix doesn't.

Shed uses citric acid and says it works fine so I tried it this grow. I added 3/4 cup baking soda to 4 gallons water and mixed. Then I added 100 grams dry citric acid and mixed. It foamed like crazy. When I dipped each branch it foamed a little.

 

[Azimuth]

Sorry about the delay in getting back to your first question. I included the second related comment. Did a bit of googling 'baking soda' and 'lemon juice'. Looked up whether they became less acidic or less base and checked on info about what reduces their potency, etc.

Baking soda will change over time and the pH will drop from the 8 it started off at. Over time the pH drops but it does not "go bad" as in becoming unhealthy. Most references put the shelf life at 6 up to 12 months after the box or can is opened. After that the stuff will not work as well which can be a disaster when using it for baking and other cooking. Humidity is mentioned as what causes this and I figure that is because the humidity mixes with carbon dioxide in the air forming a mild diluted acid.

Lemon juice will maintain its acidity of about 2 pH until it is mixed with a base or mixed into water. Then it's pH can quickly climb. In other words it quickly becomes less of an acid when pouring into a bucket of water. If using lemon juice from a bottle do not buy the really inexpensive stuff. I have read the labels on some of the really low priced lemon juice and it often is a different acid than citric with lemon flavoring added. I experimented with some of the low price 'artificial' lemon juice and it did not work well at all.

Suggestions include being sure the baking soda was recently bought and the box recently opened. Be sure that the lemon juice is really lemon juice. Even the lower priced bottles of store brand juice worked well as long as they claimed 100% lemon juice and the listing of ingredients started off with water and real lemon juice concentrate. Adding in that not enough of the baking soda and/or lemon juice will cause next to no reaction so try increasing the amounts.

I usually put the water into the bucket then add the plant material and swish around. Then add the baking soda and swish around and while the water is swirling around start to pour in some lemon juice. I don't measure anymore and add ingredients by some sort of instinct kinda like the way some old cooks will no longer use measuring spoons or cups for for the family recipes they have been cooking up year after year.

Wow, thanks @SmokingWings ! That's some helpful info right there.

I think I could actually have the baking soda issue. Have no idea, but I'd put a lot of money on my stash being way more than 12 months. And I'll check the bottle on the lemon juice. I think I did that originally and was satisfied, but...

I think I'll spring for fresh ingredients this round and see what I see.

 

[Azimuth]

Shed uses citric acid and says it works fine so I tried it this grow. I added 3/4 cup baking soda to 4 gallons water and mixed. Then I added 100 grams dry citric acid and mixed. It foamed like crazy. When I dipped each branch it foamed a little.

Thanks @GratefulBud ! Also very helpful.

Are those the official bud washing bucket ingredient levels from @InTheShed ? I may try the cirtric acid this round and see how it works. I didn't get anything like your "foamed like crazy" action in my pruior attempts.

I didn't think much of it since I'm an indoor grower and don't have much floating around or landing on the plants, but this round I got mites and I'd just as soon flush those little bastards away before putting up the next harvest.

 

[GratefulBud]

Thanks @GratefulBud ! Also very helpful.

Are those the official bud washing bucket ingredient levels from @InTheShed ? I may try the cirtric acid this round and see how it works. I didn't get anything like your "foamed like crazy" action in my pruior attempts.

I didn't think much of it since I'm an indoor grower and don't have much floating around or landing on the plants, but this round I got mites and I'd just as soon flush those little bastards away before putting up the next harvest.

I think @InTheShed used 3 gallons of water so his was a little stronger.

 

[InTheShed]

I think @InTheShed used 3 gallons of water so his was a little stronger.

I use 4 gallons of water in a 5 gallon bucket to make sure nothing scrapes the bottom. About 3/4 cup baking soda, and lemon juice should work just as well as citric acid since the main ingredient is the same.

 

[Azimuth]

I use 4 gallons of water in a 5 gallon bucket to make sure nothing scrapes the bottom. About 3/4 cup baking soda, and lemon juice should work just as well as citric acid since the main ingredient is the same.

Ok, thanks.

 

[KeithLemon]

I use 4 gallons of water in a 5 gallon bucket to make sure nothing scrapes the bottom. About 3/4 cup baking soda, and lemon juice should work just as well as citric acid since the main ingredient is the same.

Thanks Shed I will be trying this how much Lemon juice if you do not mind me asking I will just cut my finger and bleed the juice in the bucket.

 

[InTheShed]

Thanks Shed I will be trying this how much Lemon juice if you do not mind me asking I will just cut my finger and bleed the juice in the bucket

As I recall the original recipe was 1 cup each baking soda and lemon juice in a 5 gallon bucket, so you can scale down from there.

Your blood must be in high demand on July 4th!

 

[Jvernice]

Lemon juice is a natural antiseptic. Baking soda is a foaming agent that will help break down grease and oil. Lots of cleaning products use it. I don't know if that's the specific reasoning behind their use for bud washing though. I don't wash my nugs. I don't use anything that I'm concerned about washing off, but I'm interested in seeing/reading about yours and other people's experiences w the process.

First, lemon juice is not an antiseptic. It is an acidic solution containing citric acid and as ascorbic acid. The latter is an anti oxidant which can reduce micro organisms. Baking soda is slightly acidic and has no emulsification ability. It’s does nothing to remove dead bug crap. It will react with the acids in the lemon juice to form CO2 (the foaming) and the salts (sodium citrate and sodium ascorbate).
The question “why do you rinse?” was rhetorical. Of course you rinse the junk off your cannabis. My point is that you are making this process more complicated than it has to be. A mild surfactant (natural soap) and water, followed by a clean water rinse is all you need.

 

[StoneOtter]

I could be wrong J but my memory is saying we came to use this formula because it was a commonly one used for washing produce before consumption. Thanks for your method!
So what's going on in your garden? Anything? I'm about to fire mine up with 4 different cultivars from @Herbies Seeds .

 

[Jvernice]

The Lemon Juice and the Baking Soda should be used together. They will react with each other and cause a gentle fizzing or foaming action which helps to loosen the very small particles of loose leaves, dirt and crud so they can be dumped out with the water. One by itself will not do much.

Real lemon juice is what I remember from the original thread years ago. I use bottled lemon juice but read the label to be sure that it contains lemon juice. Some of the discount brands do not; they use another form of organic acidic liquid and add some lemon ester so it smells like the real thing.

I seem to remember from the original thread that about 5 minutes of soaking and swishing around is enough. So I swish for a bit and wander off for a minute or so and come back and swish and wander around and.... Can't remember what the recommended temperature of the water was but I keep thinking it was somewhere between room temp and body temp. I have noticed that really warm temps will cause changes in the colors and the buds can start to look dark green and sometimes black, especially if there is any purple coloring.

As to 'before or after drying', not sure. I have done two washing sessions using a "trimmed and still fresh" harvest and a "trimmed and dried for a couple days" harvest. The second washing experiment is in the fridge right now and is close to ready to go into jars for the cure. ........

I pulled them out and will get back to you in a few minutes after they come up to room temperatures.

That makes more sense. Rinse or wash with lemon juice first. Follow this with baking soda rinse (you don’t need that much to neutralize the acids). Then two water rinses to remove the baking soda. This will be much more effective at cleaning your buds.

 

[InTheShed]

It will react with the acids in the lemon juice to form CO2 (the foaming) and the salts (sodium citrate and sodium ascorbate).

Sodium citrate is used as an oil emulsifier. Could it be stripping the oils from our trichomes as well? Is that a reason to do them separately?