Advocate420
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Good defoliation reading !
BT'z 2nd Grow: Super Lemon Haze & Golden Leaf
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- #342
BTzGrow
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Day 70 - Watering now every day at 750ml for the flower tent girls. A little runoff. Per a little experiment the nutrients have been raised back up. Several of the clones in the veg tent were showing multiple decencies. Fortunately, the flower tent had no issues, and I want to keep it that way.
First up are the Lemon Sisters, Stella on the left and Sheila on the Right.
I feel they have both slowed down on their stretch as has Gilda over on the opposite corner.
On the other hand Grape Ape and Goldie are both only at the two week mark of their stretch and going nuts. Grape Ape has now surpassed the height of the tallest SLH
With Goldie jumping ahead of Gilda's height also.
Both are looking very strong and should be ready for their defoliation in less than a week at 21days stretch.
Over in the Veg Tent all seems to be plugging along well. I did top some of the crowd earlier a couple of days ago, and there are still three that need that treatment. In the Clone Tote there are still four of the Gold Leaf clones. They are filling out wonderfully also. I will top them at the same time I top the remaining three in the veg tent. compare their performances under the different lights. Pictures of the clone crews tomorrow perhaps. Don't want to overload everyone.
First up are the Lemon Sisters, Stella on the left and Sheila on the Right.
Both are looking very strong and should be ready for their defoliation in less than a week at 21days stretch.
Over in the Veg Tent all seems to be plugging along well. I did top some of the crowd earlier a couple of days ago, and there are still three that need that treatment. In the Clone Tote there are still four of the Gold Leaf clones. They are filling out wonderfully also. I will top them at the same time I top the remaining three in the veg tent. compare their performances under the different lights. Pictures of the clone crews tomorrow perhaps. Don't want to overload everyone.
Grape Kong!
Is that measurement related to differentiating fans from suger leaves?
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- #345
BTzGrow
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My understanding is the defoliation only applies to fan leaves. The fans create shade and block air flow if too many are present. Increase in humidity could also be an issue from the fans. Per Bassman59, the plants that have already been defoliated at the 21day mark of stretch, will continue to have any fans removed as they get big enough. BTW, the new growth and fans popping out of those just defoliated, seems to be very hearty and not slowing anyone down at all.
Not being completely knowledgeable with regards to sugar leaves I don't think they actually have much of a stem and are tucked inside the flower buds???
I still haven't established the entire purpose of sugar leaves, but I'm guessing they are ultimately important to the bud growth process.It does appear that there is a large amount of new growth since I did the defoliation, and they appear to be more sugar leaf like.
Regardless, my intent is to only remove fans from this point on. I will leave the sugars where they grow and wet trim them at harvest.
But why keep a fan with a stem that's 1.25" and take off one that's 1.5"? I was wondering why that distinction.
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- #347
BTzGrow
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I guess like many other things a line needs to be drawn at some point. If you start taking the ones that are at 1.25, the argument could then be made "Well why not the 1" stems?"
Additionally, it doesn't take but overnight before the short stems are certainly long enough to take the next morning.One thing I discovered while doing the most recent defoliation. The longer more mature fans could be bent back on themselves against the stem and had a certain and most definite pop. The break was clean and similar to that found with popping asparagus. That actually might be a better reason, waiting until the stem is mature enough to snap nicely.
So I'm going with the "Patience GrassHopper" method
I will say that when I did the defoliation on Rey in my first grow, I was brutal
and took everything that seemed to be a fan regardless of how short the stem was.
I feel that might have been a mistake 
and have backed off to working with Bassman's suggested length.
Keeps you from stripping it completely then!
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- #349
BTzGrow
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Day 71 - 23 days since flip. This buds for you all. On top of Sheila the action is getting hot and heavy.
I'm already imagining what this will taste like. Yummy!
I'm already imagining what this will taste like. Yummy!
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- #350
BTzGrow
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Day 75 - Defoliation Day One week & two days after the two SLH's and Gilda were defoliated, it's time to defoliate Goldie and GrapeApe. Goldie and GrapeApe went into the flip about a week after the first three, so this is their 21 days post flip defoliation.
Starting with the Big Gorilla in the Tent Grape Ape. Her name is Bonnie and she will take no prisoners. During stretch she has exceeded the height of the two SLH's by at least two inches. She stands proud over 26inches.
I'm throwing in a closeup view of the top buds. I feel they indicate that the stretch is pretty much over and she is setting into a bud building mode.
Next Up Goldie. She has actually grow a bit taller than Gilda. Gilda was the strong and fast grower in the beginning. That was part of the idea to hold Goldie back from the initial flip time. She is certainly looking very strong now.
Once again some bud shots from the top and looking like it's bud building time.
I did take Gilda out today and thought it would be nice to do a school picture for comparison to Goldie and also show what 8 days after the 19 day stretch defoliation looked like.
In the process I figured since she was out out of the tent and easy to spin around I could take a few of the larger fans off again. So we have a second very minor defoliation.
I ran out of time and was lucky enough to finish up with the three about 5 minutes after lights out. Fortunately I had the tent closed and quickly opened in a semi darkened garage with direct light Goldie back in. Thinking I will do a minor defoliation check on the SLH's tomorrow morning. Same Time, Same Station!
Starting with the Big Gorilla in the Tent Grape Ape. Her name is Bonnie and she will take no prisoners. During stretch she has exceeded the height of the two SLH's by at least two inches. She stands proud over 26inches.
Next Up Goldie. She has actually grow a bit taller than Gilda. Gilda was the strong and fast grower in the beginning. That was part of the idea to hold Goldie back from the initial flip time. She is certainly looking very strong now.
I did take Gilda out today and thought it would be nice to do a school picture for comparison to Goldie and also show what 8 days after the 19 day stretch defoliation looked like.
I ran out of time and was lucky enough to finish up with the three about 5 minutes after lights out. Fortunately I had the tent closed and quickly opened in a semi darkened garage with direct light Goldie back in. Thinking I will do a minor defoliation check on the SLH's tomorrow morning. Same Time, Same Station!
Oh boy do I want to come down there and bend stems! And with the nice defol they won't be blocking anyone else's light 
.
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- #352
BTzGrow
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After watching the following video shared over on another post about trimming/defoliating I'm considering just letting my plants just grow and do their own thing. It's obvious the commercial growers are defoliating but not training.
That is except for my early on veg LST training to manifold multiple branches.
That is except for my early on veg LST training to manifold multiple branches.
I don't take that as a lesson for my grows. Commercial everything only shares so much with the small scale doer.
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- #354
BTzGrow
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Agreed, but certain aspects and ideas can be shared and modified to the smaller micro grow. The micro/hobby grower has only so many resources and space to make happen what the commercial growers make look easy. Still, there are valuable lessons that can be learned from their experiences. Once those lesson's are figured out, then modification to ones personal grow space can be made.
I guess you could say I'm never happy inside the box of acceptable practices. Therefore the Hempy and LED's much less a lower costing nutrient regime. Let's also remember I'm a nooby so experimenting is part of my learning curve. I read and research and try what makes sense. If it fails the worst that happens is my yield is slightly reduced?
If it will make you feel any better, the three tallest plants Sheila, Goldie, and GrapeApe will most likely get some lite supercropping to keep them a little closer to the others and hopefully help all take advantage of the same light levels.
It would make me very happy
.I have much more room per plant than a commercial grower, as well as a lot more time per plant to train. They are maximizing their space and we are maximizing each plant. That's how I see it at least!
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- #356
BTzGrow
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Because of my enthusiasm, I perhaps have quite a bit less room per plant. I started with two each and threw in the GrapeApe. Just glad I didn't have a second successful GrapeApe germinate and grow or I would really have no room at all. I feel once this grow is finished along with the accompanying clones in the veg tent, I will most likely play with the idea of growing only one maybe two plants at a time and see what type of yield I can get. It's not like I'll be running out of supplies anytime soon, much less having to ration myself.
As it is I typically consume less than a gram per day.
Hmm...an ounce a month, 12 ounces a year and that doesn't include what you share with your friends or use for oils. Shouldn't be a problem for you with everything regularly coming out of the clone box. 
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- #358
BTzGrow
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Hmm...an ounce a month, 12 ounces a year and that doesn't include what you share with your friends or use for oils. Shouldn't be a problem for you with everything regularly coming out of the clone box.
Agreed, I current have a goal of producing 9oz per group that goes through the flowering tent regardless of number of plants. That is based on the idea of 1gram per watt. My flowering lights are rated at 125watts. They actually consume about 110watts so bonus to me.
I'm vegging with a mixture of the 54watt T-5 fixture in the clone box and 100 watts from the quantum board in the veg tent. I'm actually finding that moving plants back into the clone box after topping makes them fill out really nice, before putting them back into the veg tent. I can keep on defoliating and trimming while in veg until the flower tent is ready for the next batch. The T5 actually seems to make node spacing much closer which I feel is an added bonus. I would love to do 100% of the veg under T5 but the space and height requirements make that difficult if not impossible once the plants go into the larger baskets.
I feel the final yield is based mostly on the flowering tent power. Given that most flowering sessions are typically between 8-12 weeks, I could process 3-4 flowering sessions per year at 8-9oz per session. As I settle into a routine, I will see what type of schedule and effort I want to put into the process.
I discovered this video last year. But while I was looking for the best way to increase yields regarding my setup, I saw it again and started to really have a closer look. Here is an article about it :
Inside the Groundbreaking Farm That Boasts Three Pounds of Cannabis per Grow Light
So I wonder how I could use that technique plus all the other training technics I had learned. Then I decided to use everything the most optimized way I could. So I went for SOG like setup. Started supercropping of main stalk at week 2. Then did multiple stem pinching. Topped at 4th node. Then did defoliation but without going as far as they are in the video as think for example that a fan leave that doesn't block any light to any budsite is just a valuable energy resource for the plant. I believe they I'll always recover better when you let them have a few strategic fan leaves. The first defo was done a few days before flip instead of flipping day cause I wanted to give lower sites time to get some height to have better even canopy. It worked pretty well so far! By removing fan leaves on the taller bud sites, the lower ones could reach them within a roughly a week. I was so glad I could calculate things well. I plan to do another defoliation round at day 21. I ll go as far as it needs. In the video they remove every single fan leaf. So I think it s hard to do more than them.
All this to share your mind about how there is a little to learn in everything. Then using every little part can lead to huge results.
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- #360
BTzGrow
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Thanks for sharing the Leafly link for the video. A very interesting read. I would be more interested in knowing what their yield per watt is and also yield per cost of nutrients. Add into that the cost of labor per pound would be interesting. Given it appears they are stripping away sugar leaves that's got to be very labor intensive. Additionally, I'd be really interested in their media they are growing in. Just creating click bait with Three Per Light doesn't give me any reference to the real success of their process. In the end I'm sure they are crunching the numbers and have found a good ROI (return on investment) model for their stock holders and owners. How that translates into a micro/hobby grow might be more difficult to translate.
Another member here and I have been chatting privately on the subject, we are rather skeptical of the high cost of the nutrients, book and a phone app for an additional $99. However as you say -
I feel this is the final process for me. Learn as much as possible from all directions and adapt to ones personal needs. Perfect! Thanks for sharing.
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