Bluter's Happy Home For Hilarious Hempsters

[Danishoes21]

Bro looks good from here, even tho I may not understand 100 percent how you run the feeding schedule; You describes a cal:mag situation, with only one plant at least.

Is there a possibility you could be having silica issue?

I been reading on soil-less mediums like hydro this is a common occurrence, lack of silicon, could be added in the form of potassium silicate or sodium silicate.

“Leaves
Leaves are the first telltale sign that your plants have a nutrient problem. One of the main benefits of silicon is that it makes the crops drought resistant. Insufficient silicon means the leaves aren’t able to regulate the transpiration rate.

When cannabis plants lose large amounts of water, it leads to foliage discoloration and eventual drying. The leaves may also curl on the edge or droop.”

Not saying this is the exact issue, even though it’s a rare case to have a silica issue, it shouldn’t be over looked.

Hope you can get them where you want them b.



Only reason I suggest silica is because I have been using it if the form of foliar feed horsetail tea, this season I am pumping all my plants a high dose of silica via stomata and I have not had the same cal/mag issue I had earlier last season.

 

[bluter]

Bro looks good from here, even tho I may not understand 100 percent how you run the feeding schedule; You describes a cal:mag situation, with only one plant at least.

it's more general hunger. the things are building faster than i got ahead of. it's only the gelato really. i went to daily feeds which might have it sussed.

Is there a possibility you could be having silica issue?

There's some Si in the nute.

I been reading on soil-less mediums like hydro this is a common occurrence, lack of silicon, could be added in the form of potassium silicate or sodium silicate.

i wouldn't be against supplementing.

“Leaves
Leaves are the first telltale sign that your plants have a nutrient problem. One of the main benefits of silicon is that it makes the crops drought resistant. Insufficient silicon means the leaves aren’t able to regulate the transpiration rate.

that's in the mix for sure.

this is the first summer grow i've done in a long time. i normally do two grows a year and take the height of summer off. i've been adapting to a higher temp and rh than i normally face, effecting transpiration directly.

Only reason I suggest silica is because I have been using it if the form of foliar feed horsetail tea, this season I am pumping all my plants a high dose of silica via stomata and I have not had the same cal/mag issue I had earlier last season.

foliar does sound like a plan. if not for now for the future. got a recipe handy ?

 

[Danishoes21]

it's more general hunger. the things are building faster than i got ahead of. it's only the gelato really. i went to daily feeds which might have it sussed.



There's some Si in the nute.




i wouldn't be against supplementing.





that's in the mix for sure.

this is the first summer grow i've done in a long time. i normally do two grows a year and take the height of summer off. i've been adapting to a higher temp and rh than i normally face, effecting transpiration directly.




foliar does sound like a plan. if not for now for the future. got a recipe handy ?

Acapulco gold seems to handle a big feast, according to what I seen Gw run on his DWC. Acapulco is a beast bro.

You are right about too much of a rapid growth, your ladies have killed that threshold possibly eating up the bottoms to supplement their needs. Umm I think they are fine just the way they are bro, but then you got me thinking you still got 8-10 more weeks you say... seems like a lot of time left but I know you don’t want them begging for that long of a time.


Since you are indoors, I could not recommend my recipe; its stinks bro. @Azimuth is there any way to foliar feed some Silica with out the smell?

here is my simplest recipe, you are in Canada so horsetail is pretty much anywhere there is a fresh water stream, they like waterlogged soil. Harvest 2 handfuls, with the raw material, stuff a 1lt maison jar and top up with water, a spoon of worm castings (facultative), and a spoon of your sweetener of choice (I was using molasses, now I use sprouted barley syrup).

Close the lid of you jar, shake well and let sit for a week in sun; caution when you open it will burst like champagne. Use at an initial 1 parts tea 10 parts water; foliar in the first hour timeframe of light on; you want cool temps with lights to encourage stomata to stay open and process the foliar.




forgot to add, I do exactly the same routine I just described inter-day; we have drought like conditions and high temps at the moment, so we both basically have same conditions just different scenarios, every morning before direct sun on my plants I foliar the shit out of them and don’t water roots; I hit them before lights out with the root drench. But my gals are not flowering so you have a higher demand of everything.

 

[bluter]

Acapulco gold seems to handle a big feast, according to what I seen Gw run on his DWC. Acapulco is a beast bro.

it's the gelato eating me out of home. and they wanna be beasties. i not only went to daily i upped the feed. sorta dancing on pins though. it's gonna be hot.

last feed was 11.7 MC, 8ml calmag., in 8L RO. no BE. though i'm thinkin'..

You are right about too much of a rapid growth, your ladies have killed that threshold possibly eating up the bottoms to supplement their needs.

i don't like my plants eating themselves at this point. i'm alright with it depending where they are in flower.

Umm I think they are fine just the way they are bro, but then you got me thinking you still got 8-10 more weeks you say... seems like a lot of time left but I know you don’t want them begging for that long of a time.

that's exactly where i'm at with at with that.

i'll show a couple pics from tonight. gelato are holding, and i may even see them improving a touch.

my problem children

they are building like mad for early flower.

but they are just overall too light. the acapulco gold are far closer to where i normally sit as far as colour at this time.

a couple are losing some at the very bottoms, but not like the gelato. check out stretch at the back. sorry for the blur. bad cell pics in poor light.

the acapulco are building too, but not like the gelato wanna.

gonna be a ride til the end.

Since you are indoors, I could not recommend my recipe; its stinks bro. @Azimuth is there any way to foliar feed some Silica with out the smell?

here is my simplest recipe, you are in Canada so horsetail is pretty much anywhere there is a fresh water stream, they like waterlogged soil. Harvest 2 handfuls, with the raw material, stuff a 1lt maison jar and top up with water, a spoon of worm castings (facultative), and a spoon of your sweetener of choice (I was using molasses, now I use sprouted barley syrup).

Close the lid of you jar, shake well and let sit for a week in sun; caution when you open it will burst like champagne. Use at an initial 1 parts tea 10 parts water; foliar in the first hour timeframe of light on; you want cool temps with lights to encourage stomata to stay open and process the foliar.

we have loads of horsetail. gonna bookmark that.

 

[Danishoes21]

b you got beasts going bro, on that birds eye view I can appreciate the green. You good man, if it drops those real first fans at dead bottom I'm never worried. When I seen the top section and canopy of yours; your golden!!!

 

[Mr. Krip]

Bro looks good from here, even tho I may not understand 100 percent how you run the feeding schedule; You describes a cal:mag situation, with only one plant at least.

Is there a possibility you could be having silica issue?

I been reading on soil-less mediums like hydro this is a common occurrence, lack of silicon, could be added in the form of potassium silicate or sodium silicate.

“Leaves
Leaves are the first telltale sign that your plants have a nutrient problem. One of the main benefits of silicon is that it makes the crops drought resistant. Insufficient silicon means the leaves aren’t able to regulate the transpiration rate.

When cannabis plants lose large amounts of water, it leads to foliage discoloration and eventual drying. The leaves may also curl on the edge or droop.”

Not saying this is the exact issue, even though it’s a rare case to have a silica issue, it shouldn’t be over looked.

Hope you can get them where you want them b.



Only reason I suggest silica is because I have been using it if the form of foliar feed horsetail tea, this season I am pumping all my plants a high dose of silica via stomata and I have not had the same cal/mag issue I had earlier last season.

As a general rule, there's no such thing as a "Silica Issue" that I'm aware of.

Silica is not required for growing plants (i.e. it's not an essential element). It can help strengthen the cell walls which help make the plant more tolerant to stress, drought, pests, etc. and can help them process nutes and with photosynthesis, so it's a good additive, but the plants shouldn't be showing deficiencies if grown without it.

 

[Danishoes21]

As a general rule, there's no such thing as a "Silica Issue" that I'm aware of.

Silica is not required for growing plants (i.e. it's not an essential element). It can help strengthen the cell walls which help make the plant more tolerant to stress, drought, pests, etc. and can help them process nutes and with photosynthesis, so it's a good additive, but the plants shouldn't be showing deficiencies if grown without it.

I'm with you on that, Silica is a micro element. Not a thing to worry about.

Bluter did say he is experiencing hotter than usual temps and dry RH, so I'm thinking since the macro elements are well covered and he started exploring a possible Cal:mag situation being a micro element the second most important in my list of micro is Silica. He up the feed so they ain’t hungry; it could just well be these very lower fans have no reach to the light, so they shed them.

Its too early to say the Gelato is under stress, but its giving a sign by dropping green and losing photosynthesis on those lower fans. Once they are yellow they are useless, he doesn’t need the lower fans, but if they move up in search of what ever element they are after, its gonna start hurting his yields.

Its too early in flower to be shading green to yellow in that manner, there is probably a loss of in hydration rates based on his comment above of it being hot inside the grow.

I have seen that a imbalance in temperatures can trigger a micro element to misfire having a ripple effect on a macro element like N.

Just a thought.

 

[Mr. Krip]

I'm with you on that, Silica is a micro element. Not a thing to worry about.

Bluter did say he is experiencing hotter than usual temps and dry RH, so I'm thinking since the macro elements are well covered and he started exploring a possible Cal:mag situation being a micro element the second most important in my list of micro is Silica. He up the feed so they ain’t hungry; it could just well be these very lower fans have no reach to the light, so they shed them.

Its too early to say the Gelato is under stress, but its giving a sign by dropping green and losing photosynthesis on those lower fans. Once they are yellow they are useless, he doesn’t need the lower fans, but if they move up in search of what ever element they are after, its gonna start hurting his yields.

Its too early in flower to be shading green to yellow in that manner, there is probably a loss of in hydration rates based on his comment above of it being hot inside the grow.

I have seen that a imbalance in temperatures can trigger a micro element to misfire having a ripple effect on a macro element like N.

Just a thought.

Silicon is important, like the other micros, and especially in hydro, but a deficiency is extremely rare. I don't think I've ever seen what I would consider a silicon deficiency and, I think you'll find, it's not even discussed/listed in most charts & articles on cannabis deficiencies.

For example:

When you see the yellowing between the leaf veins (called "intervenal chlorosis") of the lower leaves it would usually indicate a Magnesium deficiency which could be caused by lack of magnesium or the PH being out of a range where the Mg can be ingested by the plant.

Honestly, I don't think I've ever even seen a pic of a Silicon deficiency since, as Bluter mentioned, it's in almost all nutes at adequate dosages, but I imagine it would look more like a Calcium deficiency with brown spots on the leaves all over the plant.

EDIT: Right before posting this, I did a quick search to see if I could find a pic of a Silicon deficiency in cannabis and I can't even find one on the web, including in an article on how to identify the deficiency (which they say is by leaf discoloration, drooping, curling, and eventually dropping)!

 

[Azimuth]

Since you are indoors, I could not recommend my recipe; its stinks bro. @Azimuth is there any way to foliar feed some Silica with out the smell?

I don't grow outdoors and don't foliar feed, but to knock down the smell you could try LAB, either mixed in with the willow/HTF or with a subsequent spray.

That's something I've been meaning to try, just haven't done it yet.

 

[Wastei]

@Azimuth is there any way to foliar feed some Silica with out the smell?

Potassium silicate. I buy 36% "water glass" locally for sealing concrete. 75ppm of that is roughly 30ppm elemental Si.

 

[Danishoes21]

Silicon is important, like the other micros, and especially in hydro, but a deficiency is extremely rare. I don't think I've ever seen what I would consider a silicon deficiency and, I think you'll find, it's not even discussed/listed in most charts & articles on cannabis deficiencies.

For example:

When you see the yellowing between the leaf veins (called "intervenal chlorosis") of the lower leaves it would usually indicate a Magnesium deficiency which could be caused by lack of magnesium or the PH being out of a range where the Mg can be ingested by the plant.

Honestly, I don't think I've ever even seen a pic of a Silicon deficiency since, as Bluter mentioned, it's in almost all nutes at adequate dosages, but I imagine it would look more like a Calcium deficiency with brown spots on the leaves all over the plant.

EDIT: Right before posting this, I did a quick search to see if I could find a pic of a Silicon deficiency in cannabis and I can't even find one on the web, including in an article on how to identify the deficiency (which they say is by leaf discoloration, drooping, curling, and eventually dropping)!

I don't grow outdoors and don't foliar feed, but to knock down the smell you could try LAB, either mixed in with the willow/HTF or with a subsequent spray.

That's something I've been meaning to try, just haven't done it yet.

Potassium silicate. I buy 36% "water glass" locally for sealing concrete. 75ppm of that is roughly 30ppm elemental Si.

Thanks all of you for chipping in, by understanding what is happening here with these lower fan, we all learn something.

Micros are underdogs but still a part of the whole biochemistry. Seldomly micros will give you troubles but if and when they do it’s so hard to pin point because they are overlooked. Like Boron or Sulfur it’s freaking hard to tell…

Interesting information on this thread.


Edit;
Other thing that gets me thinking is, I think b said something about his feed bag being like a huge bag and probably he has it for some time now, I know from organics ferts they eventually oxidize and are not good… could it be the powder fertilizer was exposed to elements and the chemical balance of the mix is fucked making a disruption in the “availability” of certain elements?

 

[Mr. Krip]

Like Boron or Sulfur it’s freaking hard to tell…

Once again, a Boron or Sulfur deficiency would be extremely rare and it can be hard to distinguish some, but here's a quick down & dirty on how to ID the most common deficiencies you'll see in cannabis:

First, especially in hydro, make sure your PH is in check. If not, correct PH problems first.

Nitrogen - Plant is yellowing from bottom->up. Up the Nitrogen (grow formula)

Calcium - Brown spots on leaves. Add Cal-Mag or some other form of calcium (lime, shells, etc.)

Magnesium - Yellowing between leaf veins in lower leaves. Add Cal-Mag or some other form of Magnesium (kelp, epsom salt, compost)

Iron - Yellowing between leaf veins in upper leaves and can easily be confused with Magnesium which effects lower leaves. Interestingly, Cal-Mag will take care of it because it also has iron which makes me think they add it for the people who think the issue is Mag when it's really iron. You can also add peat moss, compost or chelated iron supplement.

Potassium - Leaf discoloration around the leaf edges turning from yellow/white to brown (looks a lot like light burn!) and usually occurs when the plant is starting bloom phase. Up the bloom nutes, add a P-K Booster or some other source of Potassium (potash, kelp, compost, green sand, etc.).

It's not that the plant can't be deficient in those other minerals, but if you're on a decent nute program and your PH is in check, it would be pretty rare, I think, to see anything other than the five I listed above.

Everyone, please feel free to chime in if you think I missed any of the common deficiencies.

I hope that helps!

 

[bluter]

daily feeding followed by an aggressive ramping of nutes seems to have turned things around for now. the plants have started working on stacking.

i'm keeping the gelato in front so i can watch them closer. i've gone back to feeding by weight and just watching. i'm near the top of the feed schedule now and will hold there for a while then drop back a little. i'm seeing some pk pull occurring now.

the gelato have started behaving finally. the lower canopy is still taking a beating but everything upper has stabilized and is looking better.

they are building well and i'm not as worried about them making it to finish now.

the acapulco are doing fine, they don't bulk up as fast or seem as hungry. they are a bit of an easier grow overall. i'm not making a guess as to who will ultimately produce better at this point. there's a ways to go yet.

they are definitely on sativa time. neither strain has completely stopped stretching, i've given them more head room. they are slowing the stretch though, i'm fairly certain they will settle soon.

i'm still running 11 / 13, there's no reason to reduce further probably for some time yet. light is being run in the 80 -90% range, just a touch lower than usual, i felt it was appropriate considering i don't normally grow through the temps i'm seeing now.

 

[Danishoes21]

I see the spears coming, keep her steady and your golden b.

 

[bluter]

I see the spears coming, keep her steady and your golden b.

probably still in for a bit of a dance before finish.

 

[bluter]

things are pretty much on a relatively even keel right now. my acapulco gold are pretty happy, but i could be feeding them maybe a little too much compared to the gelato. they get the same mix and i've been mixing more for the gelato.

there's a tiny bit of edging just starting, and some of the upper stuff caught a little upward light curl. i'm not sure if it's ongoing or reaction from previous. gonna monitor it today and tomorrow and decide if i need to dim the rig or give them more head space.

they're beginning to fill in a little bit.

i moved a bunch of lower branching to the outside of the hoops to spread the interior out a bit for better light penetration. i should have thinned them out a bit better. something to consider on the next run. they've gotten thick enough the lowers are light starved.

the gelato are pretty much stable now. they're developing more chunky than spear like.

sorry about the fuzzy pic. everything's off an old phone i stranded at the flower space. there's so much crap around it can't focus on what i want. a little like adhd.

anything not getting light is being sacrificed. i like the strain though, even with the slightly harder grow. i can see running it again easy with some more attention. it's clearly a heavier feeder, might be just the phenos. it eats more like an indica, even with the sativa type structure.

everyone's crowded in the flower space now. another reason i should have thinned them a bit better.

if i run hoops on the next grow i'll probably do it full ubt style and just go with four branches - 2 nodes - total. depending on whether i run sativa again. i went with three and the bottom nodes didn't do much on most, and i could probably use the room.

 

[TorturedSoul]

my acapulco gold are pretty happy, but i could be feeding them maybe a little too much compared to the gelato. they get the same mix and i've been mixing more for the gelato.

Do you feed/water by hand? If so, do the heavy feeders first, then add some water to your bucket. That'll dilute the mixture, although it could cause a pH shift, depending on the water.

 

[bluter]

Do you feed/water by hand? If so, do the heavy feeders first, then add some water to your bucket. That'll dilute the mixture, although it could cause a pH shift, depending on the water.

i mimic a flood and drain in hempy by plugging the drain hole when i feed. i fill the gelato a bit more and they sit in 'flood' a bit longer before i let them drain.

 

[bluter]

the plants are starting to build nice. i'm at least 6 wks out as a guess still. a long ways to go.

i getting a little cupping and upward curl from excess heat and over lighting exposure.

i rolled the light back a little to give them a break but there is little i can do about the heat this time of year. i'm averaging about 24c but i'm spiking to 29c at times during the day. i like to stay in the 22 - 24 range if i can.

i was sitting at the top of the feed chart at 12.5g MC in 8L RO and 8ml calmag. i pulled back just a touch to see if it helps with the cupping, but i'm seeing a classic pk ask at the same time. i just started to alternate it with 10g MC in 8L RO with 8ml calmag and 2g BE which is a slightly cooler mix over all, but heavier on the pk obviously.

gelato gals have stayed relatively stable.

they are beginning to get a wee bit chunky and i'm hoping i can encourage them to continue. i'm just starting to get a few pistils turning, i'm banking on it being due to maturity and not an overfeed reaction. will have to watch close the next few days.

the acapulco gold are right there with them. i'm beginning to like the stacking.

saw a couple immature gnats floating in the runoff tonight. not a big deal, but i'll hit everyone up with an h2o2 flush tomorrow before i have to get out on the road again for shows this wkend. that should take care of them.

the gnats aren't bothering me. they have a real tough time in the perlite, it renders them flightless. attacking them now will finish them easy. i'm super impressed i haven't seen anything more serious pest wise. i normally don't run summer grows as a way of avoiding them. i didn't have a choice though this time.

 

[Danishoes21]

Packing weight b.



Doing great work G