Blue Dream In ProMix From Seed, August 2016

Monsignor

New Member
Okay folks,

Bear with me. This is my first grow and first journal on here.


A little background...
I decided to do some research to find a highly desirable strain that would do well indoors and have potentially large yield with easy to moderate difficulty. Originally I wanted to try my hand at a SoG setup with "Shipwreck" and chose to purchase through a Canadian company that was a fraud. $250 down the drain and a hard lesson learned quickly. The website was very well put together and they seemed legitimate (I have no way of knowing what is and what isn't legitimate at this point). My second choice was Blue Dream (BD) and happened to have a close friend who is in the know coming to Michigan from Denver. I asked if he could help me out and two days later I had seven BD seeds gifted to me.

I built a nice grow room in my current house and intended to do my full operation there but as I was nearing completion with the room I decided that it was time to sell the house... Prior to making this decision I had germinated the seeds and had the seedlings growing in Styrofoam cups. The room took longer to build than I thought it would so I had to keep them in that stage for longer than anticipated and eventually had to make a makeshift grow room elsewhere that isn't nearly as nice but will do.

Feel free to follow along as I break this grow down into several stages. I am always open to advice and have many questions. I intend on growing fully organic for all future grows but this time I was gifted nutrients (nutes) and didn't have the cash at the time so that's what we're doing. I would have been curious to see the difference in person anyway so I may as well find out from the beginning. Here is the breakdown of my setup:

Strain: Blue Dream
Sativa/Indica: 60%/40%
Organic: No
Germination: Seed Between Wet Paper Towel Between Two Plates
Origin: Denver from Unknown Source
Substrate: ProMix BX
Bucket Size: 4 gallon fabric
Seedling Light: Meijer 16" Florescent Grow Light
Lighting Veg: 1000 watt MH
Lighting Flower: 1000 watt HPS
Cooling: Air
Seedling Nutrients:SUPERthrive and Organic Molasses
Veg Nutrients: General Hydroponics FloraDuo Part-A and Organic Molasses
Flower Nutrients: General Hydroponics FloraDuo Part-B and Organic Molassess

Germination: 8/15/2016

I placed the seeds between two wet paper towels on a plate. I filled the plate with enough water to stand and then dumped off the excess. I added water in this manner until they were ready to place into soil. It took three days for five of the seven to be ready.

I filled three paper cups with ProMix BX after I poked a few holes into the bottom of the cup. I chose to use Styrofoam because I figured it would allow me to peel the cup away without damaging the baby roots and it worked like a charm when I finally transplanted.

After a couple of days I remembered that I had forgotten the other two seeds in the cupboard. Upon inspection I found one with a really long tap root and one that would never end up germinating. I carefully poked my hole in the ProMix with a skewer as I had done with the others and sent it in, gently, root first.

A few days later I was delighted to see my little babies poking through the dirt... All but one. One of them was missing, the one that I had left in the paper towel to long. The next day I got antsy and gently dug it out. It was nearly at the bottom of the cup and had started growing it's first leaves under the soil. I raised her above the surface so she was proud to the same height as the rest. By 8/22/2016 they were all the same height and looking good:

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It didn't take very long and I started to notice that there was a little issue with one of my weedlings and I bet you can guess which one it was...

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One of these babies aren't like the other ones! Somehow my attempt to save the life of Junior turned out to backfire. I can only assume that this is due to my involvement because the rest turned out to be identical. I guess there is a chance of coincidence but I'm not buying it. Next time I'll wait another week to see if it pops on it's own just for essay's sake.

Stretchy...

I initially had my light about 12 inches above the leaves because I was afraid of burning them. I understand that it could have been within four inches now but hindsight is 20/20. As I was texting back and forth with one of my weed friends he mentioned that the node spacing was too much and I needed to get my light closer. I ajusted accordingly and they seemed to improve (until I topped them right at where they finally started getting close node spacing).

Unfortunately I had to keep them in this state of adolescence for far longer than I intended as I did not finish my grow room nearly as quickly as I thought I would. Upon (structural) completion of my room I decided that it was time to sell the house and buy a sailboat for summer residence. I had to make a makeshift room at my other house that I rent to my brother in his basement furnace and water heater room that I had converted to a tool/work room when I lived there. The furnace created it's own layer of issues regarding lack of humidity that I will address later.

After the second week of being seedlings I mixed up a quarter teaspoon of SUPERthrive and a half teaspoon of molasses and started to feed them once a week with a sprayer and continued watering them as normal once the ProMix became very dry. After a few weeks I started noticing a distinct smell about the ProMix and my nute solition I had made. Upon inspection of the bottle and jug I noticed that it had cultured a mother of bacteria. The mother looked like a wispy cream or white tornado swirling up the middle of the jug when moved. Then it hit me... I put the molasses in the nutes to feed the beneficial bacteria in the ProMix and activate their culture; of course bacteria on the bottle and in the jug would thrive in that environment. At any rate, I dumped it out and from then on only mixed when needed.

These pictures will take you up to transplant:

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Isn't Junior CUTE!!! ... We were pretty sure those really tall ones were going to end up being male.

Transplant and Grow Room Setup: 10/23/2016

At this point my teens should be quite a bit more than teenagers but as I stated before, I had to lock them into that phase of grow so that I could build a home for them. I decided to transplant, take them to their new home, and build said home all on the same day... Yeah right... I finally got it pretty much how I like it yesterday, 11/2/2016.

Here is a picture right after I transplanted and gave them their first water in the new fiber pots and loaded them up to go to their new and final home:

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By the end of that Sunday I had gotten to this point in the following photograph. I know there's a lot going on here but I have a 6" carbon filter to scrub the air for smell. The intake for the Air Conditioner comes from the light, cooling it. I have a humidifier and a dehumidifier to allow me to have decent control over the environment.

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Problems:

I attempted to put a float valve in the humidifier so that I could automate the filling and found out the hard way that the jug you carry water in is just a loading cartridge and not the basin itself. After a minor flood, yesterday, I was able to get it working properly. It's a beautiful thing.

The room is the furnace room so hit has kept it around 35-45% relative humidity until now. Additionally, I cannot run the AC on anything other than fan because it trips the breaker. I will be running a heavy duty extension cord from the next room, which is on a different circuit, this weekend. This has lead to my temperatures being upwards of 85-95° Fahrenheit and a bit cooler at night. I'm hoping that they don't suffer too much but they seem to be doing much better now.

Topping and Sexing and Panda Film: 10/30/2016

They really started to fill out above the fourth and fifth nodes and I decided to defol the lower branches.

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This picture was taken on 10/28/2016 Look at Junior starting to come into it's own!!! Junior topped itself so I will have to take a cutting later to sex.

A few days later on October 30 I decided that I wanted to finally top them and get them into Rapid Rooters. I put them into the "Harry Potter Closet" under the stairs in permanent darkness. This was recommended to me as the quickest way to get them to show gender by my guy at the Hydro store.

***(Put picture of clones here)***

Now they're topped and labeled. As of yesterday, November 2, A and B have grown balls and were discarded. E grew pistols and I'm excited to announce that I have at least one ladygirl!!! C and D is up in the air. C looked like it could be developing balls and D looked like it could be getting hairs. Junior is also up in the air but I'm afraid it looks, prematurely, awful male-ish in the crotch! I may end up regretting naming it "Junior".

Here is a picture of them topped and beginning to grow new shoots. I will be training the shoots using Low Stress Training (LST), Supper Cropping, and shaping the outgrowths in a "fluxy" manner. Once the out growths have gotten acceptably long, parallel to the floor, I will allow vertical on the lower branches. Once they even with the next level I will let them go and finally I will let the top go. I'm aiming for a very flat topped lollipop.

A huge thanks to Light Addict for sharing all of your knowledge and technique!!!

I thought the brightness was intense until I hung the Panda Film.... Oh... My... Gawdddd... This stuff is great!!! And relatively inexpensive. Thank you to one of my weed buddies for the recommendation!

This picture is of the current setup with the Panda Film and the remaining four plants:

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TOO BE CONTINUED...
(As always please comment below. Let me know what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong. Thank you in advance for the feedback!!!)
 
I stopped by the room to find that my clear rubber hose that I had installed to my float on the Humidifier had blown up to like three times it's original diameter. Luckily it didn't burst because that would have filled the entire basement.

Useful Plumbing Tip:
***Future reference: If you're going to attach 1/2" inside diameter hose to anything under normal house water pressure, you need to buy the type that has the white braided rope molded into it!!!

In Other News... Junior was a boy. Junior is dead now and was ground up in the garbage disposal.

I am trying my hand at early sexing and only three have proven successful. E shot out pistols before I ever topped her and put her top into 24 hour dark cycle. A and B looked male-ish but A, specifically, had mutiple little balls but they were on stalks. So far I don't feel comfortable sexing unless the little balls are on stalks or they have white wispy pistols and no balls.

I borrowed this picture from @SmokeyMacPot and edited it a little for illustrative purposes. You can read more at his thread, What are preflowers?

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Notice the little stalk circled in Orange.

Down To Three... DA DA DAAAAAA
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These three are getting along nicely and I will begin doing my own version of Flux Training that should give them a nice flat-topped-lollipop shape. My goal is to get all of the benefits of Fluxing on three different tiers. I think It'll be called "FluxTiering" or something (if it works). I'm aiming for uniform airflow and light penetration with even budding instead of having lower branches that aren't very productive.

I think the FluxTiering is something that will be worth tuning in to.

TOO BE CONTINUED...
(As always please comment below. Let me know what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong. Thank you in advance for the feedback!!!)
 
Super Cropping is not for the faint of heart...

Yesterday, 11/7/2016, I decided it was time to defol and supercrop. As I've said before, each limb is going to go opposite each other; creating a six point star from the top looking down. I will force these and their growth nodes to grow parallel to the ground until there are 6-10 branches per limb per tier that I can let go vertical to create colas. I'm hoping for 36 to 60 colas per plant and I may cut every other section of new growth to ensure adequate cola spacing. I'm trying to avoid having to use a scrog net as my space is limited and it would be hard to move around my room with netting going wall to wall.

Here is E before defol, 11/7/2016:

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I took off as much undergrowth and suckers as I could while trying to leave two sets of fan leaves. I ended up only leaving one set but that should be better than none. I didn't break the skin on E but I did on multiple branches of C and D. I just duct taped them and today they looked much better... until I ripped off one of D's bottom branches... OOPS!!! It was too close to the trunk to attempt surgery so I'm just going to have to cut my losses. Sorry, D.

This is a picture of the three after defol, 11/7/2016:

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My phone died before I could take pictures of C and D but here is E after putting on the training wire, 11/8/2016:

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This should be the last high-stress that I put on my girls (hopefully all girls). The relative humidity is staying around 60-70% and the temperature is 80-85 degrees. It is a very warm November here in Michigan, so once it cools down; the room should too thanks to my small inlet fan from the outdoors. I'm so excited to see my Blue Dream grow into huge beautiful buds and I can't wait for this growth training phase to be over so I can watch them go up, up, and away!


TOO BE CONTINUED...
(As always please comment below. Let me know what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong. Thank you in advance for the feedback!!!)
 
Bounce Back from Fluxing, Training, and Boo-boos 11/9/2016:


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Thank gawd I didn't screw up my most aggressive grower, E!!! Look at her go!!! I'm going to get her big and wide then let the bottom row go vertical first. Once they catch up with row two I will let them go up. Once they reach three the whole thing will go up. I'll probably let the top tier get to 6-8 inches before going into flower. Wont be long now and I'll have a flat topped, half-globe shaped bush!

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Poor D lost it's lower branch! Luckily the other minor breaks look like they will heal and we will survive this.

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C fared the worse on this FluxTiering expedition! She lost one branch for sure on her middle tier and potentially one on the top tier. I'm thinking I would rather a top or middle tier loss rather than the bottom tier, like on D. I can allow the lower tiers to have an extra set of colas to take their places I think they will balance just fine.

Lessons Learned...

I should have waited a day or two (today) to supercrop C and D. I think that I'll end up using an E clone as the future mother for obvious reasons but I guess we won't really know until flower. I will start three clones of each before flower so that one of them can become a mother and I can grow the remaining two of the same clone next cycle. Who knows, maybe C will have mega monstrous buds that are out of this world. Only time will tell!!!

TOO BE CONTINUED...
(As always please comment below. Let me know what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong. Thank you in advance for the feedback!!!)
 
Hiya Monsignor, thanks for commenting on my grow, I wanted to return the favor! It looks like we have a lot in common- 1000w HID light, Blue Dream from seed, GH nutes, and a brand new plant training technique. This idea of multitiered fluxing sounds very interesting, what do you estimate the final dimensions of each plant will be? I love reading and learning more about other people's unique grow ideas :thanks:

As far as feedback goes, I will start with the good news:
-The foliage looks like a healthy shade of green and I don't see any clear signs of nutrient deficiency
-You have clearly done research and have no fear of trying advanced growing techniques

Here is the main area of improvement:
-Building a sturdier plant structure earlier on in the grow

Why? Well, because with fluxing, you are trying to create a very compact and efficient plant and the branches need to be strong enough to support the lateral weight of all those colas. The best way to build a sturdy plant structure involves training within the first month or so of veg, and these plants are over 2 months old. This is a challenge because since the plants stretched so much in their early growth, their overall structure will be weaker than a plant with the same biomass/age but half the height. Supercropping is definitely a solid strategy to increase limb strength, but to be honest I think that early plant training and providing enough light are key for the grow strategy you are pioneering.

Anyways, I think your idea is fascinating and I am looking forward to watching the grow progress!

:Namaste:
~TheFrizz
 
Subbed. Very good stuff. .thumb:
Pipe cleaners are very handy in the grow for all sorts of applications including tying splints on to damaged limbs. Tape is awkward and hard to remove.
 
Looking good. My only comments on your growing is that you can move a Floro light much closer to the seedlings than you did. I let my clones and seedling plants touch my T-8 bulbs and they do not burn. They do not get leggy that way. The other thing is the way that you are making an espalier with your weed. Nothing wrong with the method or the results, except... I have done that myself, and the issue becomes water drops condensing on the horizontal limbs. I had stem rot from doing that last year indoors with BD and with OG Kush. I had to prune out some larger branches that got infected (I rooted those tops out into more clones though). It can form really fast and take you by surprise. Keep the fans going! I grew a cut from Santa Cruz, so it was the real deal. I grow only from seed using my own landraces and heirlooms, or from known cuts of clone-only strains. Anyway, BD had the most stem rot and the most bud rot both growing indoors last winter/spring, and outdoors this summer/fall. It is good weed, good for sex, and a good flavor to it. It grows like a landrace sativa as well, with long open tops. It blooms relatively early, and finished pretty fast. It has gobs of resin and white sugar on the tops as well. It is also pretty bullet proof and will re-veg in the sun or under lights pretty fast. Meaning you can re-crop the same plants. But... watch for any rot! Cut out any rot and spray with Neem oil at 100:1 water:neem if you see any velvet stem rot, mold, or powdery mildew. I swear my Neem and it works fast. It is not available in Canada for really stupid reasons, but you can get it here in the states.
 
TheFrizz,

it's funny that you say that. I found your thread by searching for other Blue Dream grows. Thank you for your advice regarding the sturdy structure. I had intended on having them out of the closet like RIGHT after they popped and into my grow room. Unfortunately I never finished the original room in time and had to keep them as babies as long as possible so I could come up with another room to grow in :-(

I have a feeling I'm going to have to net them as soon as they go into flower if not just as a precaution. Thank you so much for the feedback.
 
BigSur,

Thank you very much for the info and feedback. I learned the stretchy lesson the hard way. At one point they would fall over every time I misted water into the cup for watering. The main reason the light wasn't put closer sooner is that I had no idea how fast they would grow!!! One minute they're tiny, two days later I look and they've got three segments and are all stretchy!!!! Now we know!!!

I will keep a very close eye out for the bud rot. I keep the room at 60% humidity and 80 degrees now. At flower I will drop as close to 70 degrees as I can get and will step down the RH by 10% each week until I can get to 20-30% to finish out the cycle. One thing I do have is great airflow. It's like a wind tunnel in there.

I had no idea about the Neem oil. That one is archived! Thank you so much for the feedback!!!
 
Yah, I swear by Neem. The only way I could grow GDP here was using Neem every few weeks. Otherwise it would be killed off by powdery mildew. Neem is also effective for eradicating spider mites, aphids and whitefly.
 
Another [TWO] bites the dust...

C and D's clones finally showed their sex in the clone room. At first I had put them at 24 hour darkness as instructed by the hydroponics-store-guy. I figured, "what the hell?", and took his advice. E quickly showed that she was a female. She had actually popped pistols before I put her clone in total darkness. A couple of the others had pronounced male preflowers. C and D though... pretty tricky.

I finally gave up on the 24 hour darkness thing after two weeks. You can check that out HERE. After switching to 12/12 and a week later, they exposed themselves.

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I'm not upset about it though, E is the best grower out of them all and now can receive all of my attention. I will be cloning her in a few weeks to start a mother and fuel to my next grow.

Here is a picture of C (or D) right before they were executed for being male!!!!!
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Some more extreme defol and espalier!

Fluxing is nothing more than a specific style of espalier. Espalier is the, often extreme, method of training plants and trees to grow in unnatural ways to suit our need. It can be cosmetic or it can be functional. In the case of fluxing, espalier allows for a sturdier base and more colas as well as a balanced internal system for nutrient transfer. I provided a link above to the guide for fluxing.

Two of the major benefits to fluxing is cola spacing and ability to have light and air penetration and an even cola height across the spread. For my "fluxtiering" I am trying to create more colas in one plant while having even light and air distribution on multiple tiers.

Here are a few pictures of today's defol and training:
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This is my beautiful "E" after a haircut. She was my one and only female out of six seeds. If you notice, the wires are getting relatively extensive and I will begin watering her with a funnel and pipe to get around the wires.

You probably noticed that I left most of the fan leaves on the bottom tier and cut them all off of the top tier. This is to allow for faster growth of the bottom tier and provide lots of food to the entire plant. So far it is working nicely. I did a week's worth of work today. Before I cut into her she was bushier than that photo of C, above.

In case you were wondering, the following picture is of all of the fan leaves I removed today just before being sent down the disposal:
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Not-so-protip:
It seems to be better to start training the branches off of the limbs after they are at least two inches. The wires wanted to slip off of the smaller ones and I was afraid I was going to break them.

TOO BE CONTINUED...
(As always please comment below. Let me know what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong. Thank you in advance for the feedback!!!)
 
About time to go vertical:

Last night I did some basic training. I cut off three inner growth nodes from the bottom tier because they overlap colas on the top two tiers. I felt it would be far too over crowded if I left them. I'm allowing the branches off of the limbs to start going vertical but I am still forcing the limbs to go sideways. Once 3rd tier growth reaches the 2nd tier I will allow the 3rd tier ends to go vertical as well. I will do the same with 2nd and 1st as well.

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I'm also strongly thinking about topping 3rd tier now, essentially doubling the colas, and then topping 2nd tier when tier 3 reaches tier 2, and tier 1 when 2 and 3 reach it. Got all that? I'm afraid that I will end up with too close of cola spacing find a bud rot problem. I am able to get the air down to 20% relative humidity due to being right next to a furnace and my airflow is pretty darn good so I'm trying to talk myself into it. I have decided to build a SCRoG net stand out of PVC and do two layers of net to allow the spread of colas.

Here is an example:

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You can easily see from the top elevation that light penetration and air flow will be greatly increased along with the added strength benefits. I should be able to go taller and heavier (hopefully) with less risk of breaking a limb.

I think that if I top them and do good vertical training and lollipopping, I shouldn't have and light or air issues. Thoughts on the matter are welcome.

TOO BE CONTINUED...
(As always please comment below. Let me know what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong. Thank you in advance for the feedback!!!)
 
Looking good, the limbs have really thickened nicely since I last checked your grow out! I agree with your reasoning when it comes to light and air, it is good to evenly distribute the colas and allow each one an inch of two of "wiggle room".

What is your final pot size you plan on using? I don't know as much about soil grows, but I do know that for a 1 plant SCROG you will need a pretty big root structure to support growth. I have seen some really massive soil grown single-plant SCROG's in 10 gallon pots :thumb:

Keep up the good work, and I admire you greatly for trying out a new technique!

:Namaste:
TheFrizz
 
Looking good, the limbs have really thickened nicely since I last checked your grow out! I agree with your reasoning when it comes to light and air, it is good to evenly distribute the colas and allow each one an inch of two of "wiggle room".

What is your final pot size you plan on using? I don't know as much about soil grows, but I do know that for a 1 plant SCROG you will need a pretty big root structure to support growth. I have seen some really massive soil grown single-plant SCROG's in 10 gallon pots :thumb:

Keep up the good work, and I admire you greatly for trying out a new technique!

:Namaste:
TheFrizz
TheFrizz,

Thanks for the kind words!!! I'm not actually doing a full on Screen of Green. I just didn't know what else to call the netting other than "SCRoG Netting" as I've seen it advertised. I don't think I'll let my one plant go much taller than yours were, just a little bit wider and a little bit taller. I don't intend to repot. I just want to have a uniform method of controlling the cola spread.

Do you think this container will be sufficient? I want to say they're 4 gallon?

Thanks for the inspiration!!!!!!!!!!!.

Sent from my LGLS991 using 420 Magazine Mobile App
 
I had to go feed my young lady today and decided to take a quick video. I also created a youtube channel and will be putting grow updates on there as well. Enjoy.

Monsignor's Blue Dream in ProMix 1000 Watt MH/HPS FluxTier - YouTube

She's using about 1.5 Gallons of water a week.

I am currently putting these nutes in with every watering of 1.5 gallons:

4 Tablespoons of FloraDuo Part A
2 Tablespoons of Organic Molasses
2 Splashes of SuperThrive
 
Monsignor, could you please go to my thread and post the decarbilization info. there so I have it, please. My computer skills suck and thats such great info! I want to be a great indoor grower and sure could use your help!
Happy Holidays!!
 
BTW, TheFizz, I realize now that the word I was looking for was "Trellis" Netting. I'm building a cheap and easy platform to mount the netting and PandaFilm onto this weekend so I can get rid of the curtains. I'm also having issues maintaining a humidity higher than 45% and a temperature lower than 85°F at the plant so I will be making a wind tunnel for the fan to sit at and direct the cool air in a more concentrated manner. I want to bud at closer to 70° degrees. Thankfully bud rot shouldn't be an issue. If I turned off the Humidifier I think I could get the room down to 10% lol.

4Dutchess,

Thanks for stopping by. I sent those over to your thread for you. Nice looking thread by the way, it's huge so I'm going to have to work my way through it!!! I'm sure you will be a great indoor grower. My next expedition will be into aeroponics.
 
I started my tent in July and fought high temps until Oct. I figured out the secret is the air the tent gets has to be close to 70 deg. Wether you have to lower or raise for that temp so be it. My tents temps are perfect now its cooler outside. I wont flower with my tent in summer with 600w HPS again. If anything in summer I will use LED's and T11's.
Happy Holidays!!
 
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