Blue Dream In ProMix From Seed, August 2016

[TheFrizz]

Hiya Monsignor! I am 99% sure that this is what happened to your plant:

When you lowered the light, you caused the plant to uptake higher levels of water (and thus, nutes) to support the higher rate of photosynthesis that is occurring due to more light exposure. More nute uptake would result in too dark green leaves and nute burn, which is what we see in the images.

Based on the picture you posted on Dec 8th, it looks like she is improving in health, the leaves look perkier since the flush. This supports the idea that ultimately this was nutrient toxicity caused by a sudden increase in light.

Your coliseum you built around her looks pretty awesome, I can't wait to see what she looks like when she fills it out!

 

[Monsignor]

Hiya Monsignor! I am 99% sure that this is what happened to your plant:

When you lowered the light, you caused the plant to uptake higher levels of water (and thus, nutes) to support the higher rate of photosynthesis that is occurring due to more light exposure. More nute uptake would result in too dark green leaves and nute burn, which is what we see in the images.

Based on the picture you posted on Dec 8th, it looks like she is improving in health, the leaves look perkier since the flush. This supports the idea that ultimately this was nutrient toxicity caused by a sudden increase in light.

Your coliseum you built around her looks pretty awesome, I can't wait to see what she looks like when she fills it out!

Frizz!!! Good to hear from you. I think you're spot on. I'm flushing with just water, Floralicious Plus, molasses, and half dose calMag until I see big lush leaves again. I think that you're right and even worse that it happened right after realizing a lockout had occurred for likely the entire grow. The proMix was probably saturated with nitrogen and even after a two gallon flush I should not have fed the next watering. Now I'm going to flush until they look lush and hungry for more nutes!!!

BTW... Aren't we due for a smoke report!?!?!?

Here are bad leaves I cut off last night:

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[Monsignor]

Happy Sunday Monsignor!!

Sorry I didn't respond, I was around non-weed people and then I forgot. Happy Tuesday, Dutch!!!

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[Monsignor]

Hey Monsignor- just wandering into this thread now. I always have a long list of subscriptions and just keep going in a circle trying to catch up. Sorry I missed your urgent callout.
It's very rare that we ever get to diagnose a problem with certainty, and this time is no different. I don't know the answer for sure, but I suspect it's mainly ph. I wouldn't worry about the couple yellowing leaves much - but the overall issue just looks like ph stuff.

Do you normally run your ph this high in promix? I use sunshine mix -which as far as I know this pretty much the same thing, and I feed at around 5.5 or so. Never above six. Here's a link to a post I made in my journal back when I was doing some high/low pH experiments. Links to posts aren't workin right now but this should get you close. It's post# 976 if you have to scroll down

The Hexapus's Garden


Soilless in general uses the hydro range. I haven't used promix, and maybe it works better at a different range than sunshine mix, but I really don't think so, and other people I have seen using it use the hydro range as well. Hydro range is usually labelled as 5.6 - 6.2. But, pH naturally tends to rise in the pot and so the trick I employ is to feed and water low and let it naturally swing upwards to take in that range.
Some people do ph soilless closer to the soil range. It seems like those growers tend to be the ones who are treating it more like soil-with more additives and beneficial bacteria and stuff. Maybe it works for some. I sure couldn't get it to work for me as you will see from my link.

6.3, in the hydro ph range, and in my grow, would be locking out many, if not most, nutrients.

Having said all this- it looks like you've been giving them a very acid environment for quite a while- so you did the right thing by giving it a high pH to bring it back up in the pot. Barring some other info - like 'I've been using promix for years and ph'ing to 6.5 and it's all been good' I think that if you ph everything to about 5.6 and stay consistent they will straighten out. It always takes a week or more even if conditions are perfect.


I haven't ever had leaves droop from being to close to the lights. They usually just burn or curl upwards.

Hey, WeaselCracka! Lol. I had always measured nutes at 5.8 and didn't measure the runoff because I didnt understand that there was a dramatic swing that occurs. Then a friend said (recently) that I needed to be at more like 6.3 because it's soil. Dummy me, I forgot that ProMix is soiless and that's why I was originally doing 5.8.

Skip to modern times... I now check my runoff every time with a decent pen. The soil swings from 6.0 to 5.5-5.6 with feedings of 6.4. Thanks to your advice, it's all clear to me now.

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[Monsignor]

Your coliseum you built around her looks pretty awesome, I can't wait to see what she looks like when she fills it out!

I forgot to thank you for the Colosseum comment. It was pretty cool but my makeshift grow room was at my other house and I had to bring them home to my own grow room and now I dont have the Colosseum lol. I took a video of half of the room though...

Upgraded Grow Room - YouTube

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[4Dutchess]

Could you please explain how you PH the run off??? Ive heard of it but not sure how and why. I just learned to PH the water/feed and Im ready to learn this next step and add it to the arsenal. Thanks!
Common sense says you catch the run off from the pot in a cup and check its PH? Whats this good for? What should PH run off be?? I use O.Forest soil and try to PH all to 6.25-6.50
Nice to see you Frizz! I hope all is well for you! Happy Holidays!!

 

[PrincessFiona]

Could you please explain how you PH the run off??? Ive heard of it but not sure how and why. I just learned to PH the water/feed and Im ready to learn this next step and add it to the arsenal. Thanks!
Common sense says you catch the run off from the pot in a cup and check its PH? Whats this good for? What should PH run off be?? I use O.Forest soil and try to PH all to 6.25-6.50
Nice to see you Frizz! I hope all is well for you! Happy Holidays!!

Hi there, u dont ph the run off, u test the ph of the run off, google what run off should be that is safe, then correct ph of water u use to water if run off is too high or low, think thats what u mean? Sorry if im wrong lol

 

[PrincessFiona]

Ideal soil run off should be 6.3 to 6.8

 

[PrincessFiona]

Also if the ph of run off is to high or low it can mean ur plant isnt gettin right amount of good stuff, u may need to up ph as ur using ocean forest which is similar to my soil and says it has a natural buffer, i would try ph 7.0 then should come out lower but safe?

 

[4Dutchess]

Hi there, u dont ph the run off, u test the ph of the run off, google what run off should be that is safe, then correct ph of water u use to water if run off is too high or low, think thats what u mean? Sorry if im wrong lol

Thats what I meant. So put run off in a cup, check ph, and adjust water/feed from there. I get it. Its kinda like PHing water/feed at least to see where your at?? Interesting. Ok Im going to google PH runoff for cannabis and see whats up. Thanks!
Im guessing checking run off and adjusting is as important as checking the water and feed and adjusting. Especially if you got signs of a PH problem. Thanks. Now all I got to do is work this step in!!
Great Day!

 

[Weaselcracker]

Hey, WeaselCracka! Lol. I had always measured nutes at 5.8 and didn't measure the runoff because I didnt understand that there was a dramatic swing that occurs. Then a friend said (recently) that I needed to be at more like 6.3 because it's soil. Dummy me, I forgot that ProMix is soiless and that's why I was originally doing 5.8.

Skip to modern times... I now check my runoff every time with a decent pen. The soil swings from 6.0 to 5.5-5.6 with feedings of 6.4. Thanks to your advice, it's all clear to me now.

That was confusing to me though, lol. Just so we are clear through, right? Promix is not soil. It is referred to as soilless, and is a form of hydroponics. It uses the hydroponic ph range. The peat moss and perlite which make up promix are an inert substance containing no nutrition, unlike soil. It's just something aerated and fluffy for the roots to grow in, while the grower adds all the nutrition. ie- hydroponics.

 

[Monsignor]

That was confusing to me though, lol. Just so we are clear through, right? Promix is not soil. It is referred to as soilless, and is a form of hydroponics. It uses the hydroponic ph range. The peat moss and perlite which make up promix are an inert substance containing no nutrition, unlike soil. It's just something aerated and fluffy for the roots to grow in, while the grower adds all the nutrition. ie- hydroponics.

Lol I just didn't have another word for it. I'll just say promix from now on!!!

Now since it is a form hydroponics, I typically feed every watering (not realizing I was in lockout). If I hadn't been in lockout then there wouldn't have been a buildup therefore when ph balanced and fixed, there wouldn't have been burn?

I just want to be clear that I should typically feed when watering or should it be feed them water then feed then water or feed fees water or water water feed?

Any thoughts?

 

[Monsignor]

***Media... I'll say media from now on.

 

[Islandgrow]

Lol I just didn't have another word for it. I'll just say promix from now on!!!

Now since it is a form hydroponics, I typically feed every watering (not realizing I was in lockout). If I hadn't been in lockout then there wouldn't have been a buildup therefore when ph balanced and fixed, there wouldn't have been burn?

I just want to be clear that I should typically feed when watering or should it be feed them water then feed then water or feed fees water or water water feed?

Any thoughts?

I think feed feed water should work to keep the salt buildup down. How often do you water/feed?

"carpe diem"

 

[Monsignor]

I think feed feed water should work to keep the salt buildup down. How often do you water/feed?

"carpe diem"

I wait until the media is SUPER dry. It takes 2.25 Gallons slow fed to have any runoff and between 4 and 5 days to fully dry out.

Because of the obvious burn, I am doing two waters then a feed to ensure a good washout. In two weeks she's going into 12/12 and I'll do Feed Feed Water throughout flower. I agree that there has to be a salt flush at SOME point. You would think anyway.

Here she is last night:

Obvious improvement.

 

[4Dutchess]

Im in soil and I water, feed, water, etc.
So in soiless you will use more nutes than soil for a grow????
I think Im ready to progress to the step of PHing my run off.
As far as flushing then burn, my laundry grow looked terrible after the Sledge hammer flush i did but then it has aphids. The tent flush went great and they have no bugs. I was thinking dont S.hammer flush no more but now I know it was Aphids.
Im not ready for promix or hydro just yet!
Great Day Monsignor!

 

[Monsignor]

Im in soil and I water, feed, water, etc.
So in soiless you will use more nutes than soil for a grow????
I think Im ready to progress to the step of PHing my run off.
As far as flushing then burn, my laundry grow looked terrible after the Sledge hammer flush i did but then it has aphids. The tent flush went great and they have no bugs. I was thinking dont S.hammer flush no more but now I know it was Aphids.
Im not ready for promix or hydro just yet!
Great Day Monsignor!

Great day to you as well, Dutch!!! I really thought those were broad mites and not aphids but then I looked at some Google pics as they're definitely aphids. I think you could pick those off with a finger nail and there's no way you could with a broad mite.

I wonder if there are any beneficial insects you could introduce to eat the aphids?

Im in soil and I water, feed, water, etc.
So in soiless you will use more nutes than soil for a grow????
I think Im ready to progress to the step of PHing my run off.
As far as flushing then burn, my laundry grow looked terrible after the Sledge hammer flush i did but then it has aphids. The tent flush went great and they have no bugs. I was thinking dont S.hammer flush no more but now I know it was Aphids.
Im not ready for promix or hydro just yet!
Great Day Monsignor!

 

[Weaselcracker]

I'd lean more towards the feed,water, feed routine- but there is a lot of wiggle room. It depends how much you're feeding. It's possible to do very well running on a constant light feeding. But if you're going for a heavier feed, like me, then stretch it out a little more between feedings.

I operate on roughly a weekly schedule because of life commitments. My pots dry up after about 5 or 6 days. I water them slowly till they're completely soaked and I get water running out freely. Then I feed the saturated pots well the next day, which results in a bunch more runoff as the water is displaced by the nutrient mix. If the plants seem to be getting overfed at any point I'll skip a weekly feeding or make it lighter. Or if my schedule is flexible enough I'll move to a 8 -10 day cycle instead of a 7 day one.

Getting the pot saturated and having a little runoff each time is very important. People talk about wasting nutes but nutes are by far the cheapest part of my grow. Letting a bit run down the drain, so my plants can be healthier, doesn't seem like a problem.

I've also done well using much smaller pots and doing multiple weak feedings each day. There are lots of options as long as you have some runoff and don't overfeed or overwater. ( How often you can feed/water without overwatering relates to the pot size and the fluffiness of the growing medium).

 

[Monsignor]

Thanks Weasel. I've never done the saturate before feeding. I've always mixed half strength of the high nitrogen nutrient and put in the two gallons or more of nute-water. I like the way you're saying better because it will allow me to measure the soil runnoff PRIOR to adding the new nutrients. I've been working off of an assumptive PH swing, i.e. last nute-water was with 6.4 and it brought it up to 6.0 so it must have swung from 6.0 to 5.6. Since my last issue that seems to have been the case but now that I'm flushing for two cycles there should be less swing so I wasn't quite sure how to add the missing variable.... Mystery solved. Thanks, Weasel!!! Rep+

 

[Islandgrow]

Great day to you as well, Dutch!!! I really thought those were broad mites and not aphids but then I looked at some Google pics as they're definitely aphids. I think you could pick those off with a finger nail and there's no way you could with a broad mite.

I wonder if there are any beneficial insects you could introduce to eat the aphids?

Ladybugs for aphids.

"carpe diem"