- Thread starter
- #21
Re: Bassman59's 1st grow. DWC/LED, pray for me!
Well, crap.
Been uploadin 1 photo for over an hour. I got no clue.
Well, crap.
Been uploadin 1 photo for over an hour. I got no clue.
Bassman59's 1st Grow - DWC/LED - Pray For Me!
- Thread starter Bassman59
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #22
Time for humility.
Took me a few days but I figured out how to resize and upload photos. That's the good news.
Now for the bad news.
All but 1 are DOA. The one is included in photos below.
Where did I fail?
Guess 1: Adding 1/4 GH micro nutes as instructed by Lucas formula before seedlings had popped through and were only cracked.
Guess 2: Water temp very high, like 80f + or something. I dont know how to control this as I cant afford a chiller of any kind atm.
Guess 3: Over watering? Feed tubes drizzling too much?
Guess 4: When dropping the cracked seeds into wool, they were too deep and "rolled" upside down because I had slightly opened the holes a bit?
Not to be stopped, I have more seeds on the way, and will start to germinate the 1 remaining AK48 fem seed along with the new ones when they arrive and get this grow working right. The new seeds will be a bit behind obviously but that will just mean more veg for the one and more cropping so more bush and maybe some good clones. Ya?
I would love to hear opinions on above. I am discouraged but not to the point of giving up obviously.
Tent view:
Light:
250cfm duct fan (she's running at full speed in this photo):
Survivor:
Took me a few days but I figured out how to resize and upload photos. That's the good news.
Now for the bad news.
All but 1 are DOA. The one is included in photos below.
Where did I fail?
Guess 1: Adding 1/4 GH micro nutes as instructed by Lucas formula before seedlings had popped through and were only cracked.
Guess 2: Water temp very high, like 80f + or something. I dont know how to control this as I cant afford a chiller of any kind atm.
Guess 3: Over watering? Feed tubes drizzling too much?
Guess 4: When dropping the cracked seeds into wool, they were too deep and "rolled" upside down because I had slightly opened the holes a bit?
Not to be stopped, I have more seeds on the way, and will start to germinate the 1 remaining AK48 fem seed along with the new ones when they arrive and get this grow working right. The new seeds will be a bit behind obviously but that will just mean more veg for the one and more cropping so more bush and maybe some good clones. Ya?
I would love to hear opinions on above. I am discouraged but not to the point of giving up obviously.
Tent view:
Light:
250cfm duct fan (she's running at full speed in this photo):
Survivor:
miwa
New Member
looks like work to me....i just threw some bag seeds out rhe back window lol
I have used rock wool cubes in the past to germinate, some people say they work great, I don't like them. I drop my seeds in a root riot cube that is in a small container of coco/perlite. I give the whole thing a light watering and let it drain before I put the seed in. then I place it on top of my computer where it stays warm until the seed pops, then it's under a T5HO until it has 3~4 nodes or more. I don't give any nutes until it has it's first set of true leaves and then it's very diluted.
In my experience, the rock wool cube stay too moist for seeds. If you use them, water them once, then a humidity dome and then wait for the seeds to pop.
Hope the next batch works better for you. I know your frustration, I lost 9 of 10 Forbidden Fruit seeds my first time. That was also my last time using rock wool. It's been 100% since I went to root riot plugs though,
In my experience, the rock wool cube stay too moist for seeds. If you use them, water them once, then a humidity dome and then wait for the seeds to pop.
Hope the next batch works better for you. I know your frustration, I lost 9 of 10 Forbidden Fruit seeds my first time. That was also my last time using rock wool. It's been 100% since I went to root riot plugs though,
- Thread starter
- #26
Stevehman,
What are your thoughts on the following?
1. Germ seeds in 24hr water soak, then paper towel until root tap, place into root riot. When they break through, place root riot cubes into my DWC tubs with feeder tubes OFF until 1st leaves.
2. Place root riot directly into my system, feeder tubes off, place the pre soaked (or not soaked?) seed into root riot. snip a corner off root riot to cover the hole ever so slightly (my led is still on 24/7 for the one plant afterall).
3. Germ and drop in root riot and not place into dwc till the 1st leaves begin (They would be under cfls till then) .
upon further looking at the wool, I think it came down to over watering with the drizzle. combined with the 1/4 nutes suggestion from the lucas formula. I thought I had the tubes turned down low but maybe not low enough.
The one plant remaining has a nice little root coming 2" or so out of the bottom of the planter though and nearly to the water level. Once that root is well established into the water level I'll look at that feeder tube and see just how low it was on flow.
What are your thoughts on the following?
1. Germ seeds in 24hr water soak, then paper towel until root tap, place into root riot. When they break through, place root riot cubes into my DWC tubs with feeder tubes OFF until 1st leaves.
2. Place root riot directly into my system, feeder tubes off, place the pre soaked (or not soaked?) seed into root riot. snip a corner off root riot to cover the hole ever so slightly (my led is still on 24/7 for the one plant afterall).
3. Germ and drop in root riot and not place into dwc till the 1st leaves begin (They would be under cfls till then) .
upon further looking at the wool, I think it came down to over watering with the drizzle. combined with the 1/4 nutes suggestion from the lucas formula. I thought I had the tubes turned down low but maybe not low enough.
The one plant remaining has a nice little root coming 2" or so out of the bottom of the planter though and nearly to the water level. Once that root is well established into the water level I'll look at that feeder tube and see just how low it was on flow.
miwa
New Member
i germinated my seeds in a wet t-shirt...put mg in jiffy pots....soak mg with weak solution of mg plant food...30-10-10..place seeds root down into jiffy pot....when plant is establishd with 2nd set of leaves....place pot with plant into larger container...water around outside edge of jiffy pot...less chance of getting stem rot
Last seeds I didn't presoak, just droppped them into the root riot plug. I wouldn't put them into the DWC until they have roots sticking out of the cube and then I would put them in. I wouild keep them under a CFL until they have a few sets of leaves, the LEDs can be a little much for them. Most LED companies recommend 36 inches above seedlings and clones to get them acclimated to the light.
Dang Bassman, sorry to hear about your losses.
I agree with the responses you received about your problem. I like to use Grodan (basically rockwool) and have no problems with it though.
My germination process is as follows. Wet paper towel folded over seed then placed in a Ziplock bag. Zip the bag half shut, take a deep breath and blow slowly into the bag until full, then zip shut. Place in a warm place (top of fridge, cable box, etc.). When the seed has a 1/4-1/2" root plant it. Like stevehman said place them under a cfl and wait for roots to show out of the bottom before putting them in your system, and also like stevehman said, no nutes until you have your first set (or two) of leaves.
With all that being said, I'm concerned about your water temp. 80*'s is WAY to warm, the water will not have enough oxygen for your roots. That issue will need to be fixed. Have you considered soil for this grow? Maybe use the DWC this winter?
I agree with the responses you received about your problem. I like to use Grodan (basically rockwool) and have no problems with it though.
My germination process is as follows. Wet paper towel folded over seed then placed in a Ziplock bag. Zip the bag half shut, take a deep breath and blow slowly into the bag until full, then zip shut. Place in a warm place (top of fridge, cable box, etc.). When the seed has a 1/4-1/2" root plant it. Like stevehman said place them under a cfl and wait for roots to show out of the bottom before putting them in your system, and also like stevehman said, no nutes until you have your first set (or two) of leaves.
With all that being said, I'm concerned about your water temp. 80*'s is WAY to warm, the water will not have enough oxygen for your roots. That issue will need to be fixed. Have you considered soil for this grow? Maybe use the DWC this winter?
- Thread starter
- #30
Steve,
Ya, my led is 35" above presently. But I think I'll do as you suggest and not drop the new seeds (should be here soon I hope) until roots have appeared outside the cubes.
Dog,
I'm a bit concerned about water temp too. This could be the one pain in the ass thing to handle for me. I dont have the $$ for a chiller. I have three 1gal jugs in freezer but when the plants get big and have huge rootballs, they wont like a jug IN the water. I have a couple thoughts in that regard to mull over.
Ya, my led is 35" above presently. But I think I'll do as you suggest and not drop the new seeds (should be here soon I hope) until roots have appeared outside the cubes.
Dog,
I'm a bit concerned about water temp too. This could be the one pain in the ass thing to handle for me. I dont have the $$ for a chiller. I have three 1gal jugs in freezer but when the plants get big and have huge rootballs, they wont like a jug IN the water. I have a couple thoughts in that regard to mull over.
- Thread starter
- #31
Ok,
The 1 plant has new leaves coming. It's been near two weeks, so I did a complete, drain, clean, replenish of that tank. The taproot is into the water bath now.
In cleaning, I cleaned off tons of slime. Slime on feeder tubes, walls of tub, etc. I really dont like that, but glad I got it all cleaned out. Maybe GH organic nutes are not such a great choice for dwc like this?
Anyways, all cleaned up, I fed 1/4 micro & grow (synthetics) per instructions in the DWC system I purchased to do this grow in.
The 1 plant has new leaves coming. It's been near two weeks, so I did a complete, drain, clean, replenish of that tank. The taproot is into the water bath now.
In cleaning, I cleaned off tons of slime. Slime on feeder tubes, walls of tub, etc. I really dont like that, but glad I got it all cleaned out. Maybe GH organic nutes are not such a great choice for dwc like this?
Anyways, all cleaned up, I fed 1/4 micro & grow (synthetics) per instructions in the DWC system I purchased to do this grow in.
miwa
New Member
i like the paper towel...zip lock thing...i will do that next...i knew about it...but never thought about filling the bag with air before sealing...thanks yarddog
miwa
New Member
i was not kidding when i said i threw the seeds out the window....i will post photos when i learn how...won't do that again...you will see why when you see the photos
Hey Bass! I'm sub'd for this one and wishing you good luck.
Just a couple of suggestions....As for my credentials, just read my first journal which is nothing but me killing seed after seed trying to germinate!
First, I agree 100% with SteveH. Soak the cube, put in the seedling, cover it with a humidity dome, and don't put it in the DWC until you see some good roots coming out of the cube.
Most likely you did drown the seeds. I don't believe the 80* temps are too high to get the seed to germinate, but they are VERY high to be running DWC, especially with organics.
Some nutes can make the water feel slimey, but it's also a sign that there may be a problem (unwanted bacteria) in the res. The high temps and organic nutes MAY cause you some pythium problems going forward.
Also, you don't want to plant that seed too deep. The seedling is using a ton of energy to try to break out of the surface. Don't worry about it taking longer for the roots to break out of the cube. It happens quick and by the time they do, you know you'll have a good root structure. I recommend planting the seed about twice as deep as the seedling is big (i.e. one seedling's distance from the surface) then just gently & loosely pull some of the rockwool fibers over the hole to block out the light.
Do not bother with nutes. the seedling doesn't have roots to uptake them and doesn't need them. She'll get her early nutes provided to her by the cotelydons.
I germinated a seed last week by just dropping straight into a wet rockwool cube. No pre-soaking or anything else and it popped in 2-3 days. I did another one yesteray where I did soak the seed for about 12 hours before putting directly into the rockwool cube. It had just started to crack, but had no taproot showing.
MANY people have great success with germing using paper towels or napkins in a sealed plastic bag, or on a plate, in a warm place. This is NOT wrong but, I personally don't believe it's the best way to germinate. There can be issues where the seedlings roots can start to grow into the paper and can cause stress when they are removed. Also, some paper towels/napkins are treated with chemicals that can cause issues. IMHO, if you're gonna put it in a paper towel, you may just as well put it in the cube and not worry about problems, but again, this is just my opinion and many people do fine with the paper towel method.
Finally, I recommend you germinate a couple of bagseed or freebies before you start playing with the expensive seeds. Again, coming from a guy who's killed lots of seeds before he was able to germinate successfully, I know the cost involved both in money and time.
Once you get your technique down, and it won't take much adjustment since you're now learning what doesn't work, it'll become easy for you to have high success rates on germing.
Just a couple of suggestions....As for my credentials, just read my first journal which is nothing but me killing seed after seed trying to germinate!
First, I agree 100% with SteveH. Soak the cube, put in the seedling, cover it with a humidity dome, and don't put it in the DWC until you see some good roots coming out of the cube.
Most likely you did drown the seeds. I don't believe the 80* temps are too high to get the seed to germinate, but they are VERY high to be running DWC, especially with organics.
Some nutes can make the water feel slimey, but it's also a sign that there may be a problem (unwanted bacteria) in the res. The high temps and organic nutes MAY cause you some pythium problems going forward.
Also, you don't want to plant that seed too deep. The seedling is using a ton of energy to try to break out of the surface. Don't worry about it taking longer for the roots to break out of the cube. It happens quick and by the time they do, you know you'll have a good root structure. I recommend planting the seed about twice as deep as the seedling is big (i.e. one seedling's distance from the surface) then just gently & loosely pull some of the rockwool fibers over the hole to block out the light.
Do not bother with nutes. the seedling doesn't have roots to uptake them and doesn't need them. She'll get her early nutes provided to her by the cotelydons.
I germinated a seed last week by just dropping straight into a wet rockwool cube. No pre-soaking or anything else and it popped in 2-3 days. I did another one yesteray where I did soak the seed for about 12 hours before putting directly into the rockwool cube. It had just started to crack, but had no taproot showing.
MANY people have great success with germing using paper towels or napkins in a sealed plastic bag, or on a plate, in a warm place. This is NOT wrong but, I personally don't believe it's the best way to germinate. There can be issues where the seedlings roots can start to grow into the paper and can cause stress when they are removed. Also, some paper towels/napkins are treated with chemicals that can cause issues. IMHO, if you're gonna put it in a paper towel, you may just as well put it in the cube and not worry about problems, but again, this is just my opinion and many people do fine with the paper towel method.
Finally, I recommend you germinate a couple of bagseed or freebies before you start playing with the expensive seeds. Again, coming from a guy who's killed lots of seeds before he was able to germinate successfully, I know the cost involved both in money and time.
Once you get your technique down, and it won't take much adjustment since you're now learning what doesn't work, it'll become easy for you to have high success rates on germing.
miwa
New Member
u r right m krip...my seed root went into my t-shirt...lucky it did'nt hurt it when i pulled it out...its growing
- Thread starter
- #36
Thanks for those thoughts everyone. And welcome krip. I certainly dont feel alone in the failure dept. I know we all go through it to some extent and it's part of the learning process.
Took a look at my girl after just a few hours of 1/4 nutes of SH micro/grow and she looks purty perky.
I'll be grabbin root riot or the other cube (not wool) today maybe. Not rushed till the new seeds arrive. Maybe they'll be here weds. Then I'll cfl/dome them in closet till they're ready so they can go in with the LED 20-24" or so above. Sure, they'll be behind a cpl weeks, but hey thats just more time for topping #1 and more bush.
Took a look at my girl after just a few hours of 1/4 nutes of SH micro/grow and she looks purty perky.
I'll be grabbin root riot or the other cube (not wool) today maybe. Not rushed till the new seeds arrive. Maybe they'll be here weds. Then I'll cfl/dome them in closet till they're ready so they can go in with the LED 20-24" or so above. Sure, they'll be behind a cpl weeks, but hey thats just more time for topping #1 and more bush.
miwa
New Member
can you see this
miwa
New Member
can U C this??????
miwa
New Member
from seeds thrown out the window in april....WOWWWWWWW