Ase's Perpetual Fun With Coco

Asesino85 said:
Yeah I had the same issue with my first plants in coco. All I knew was that I wanted to try coco but I was doing 1/2 strength off the bottle nutes and didn't even really know what N-P-K was. I knew I needed cal-mag but didn't know why either. It's essential in coco and seems to be the #1 problem. The #2 problem is not charging coco when transplanting and the plants slow way down until the coco gets fed a few times. Same concept.

You're always welcome for the info, now put it to good use! Btw I am headed to your journal to take a look. Hope you don't mind!
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Thanks again Ase!! I have written this all down. I even drew a diagram of how you transplant using the small pot in the middle of the big pot! Lol
 
Asesino85 said:
Ahhh, the question that never seems to really have a definitive answer does it? I've done a ton of research on this and here is what I've come up with. Let me tell you in advance that I've never grow with all organic so my answer is purely based on what I've read and my experience with non-organics.

I've always used GH 3 part series. I used soil for my first grow and liked it but had a ton of bugs and constantly had to deal with that. I followed TheBlaze at the time and he was growing in coco. Funny now he is back in soil and I'm the one in coco. Either way he grew with General Hydroponics and I had seen quite a few others use their nutrients with great results. My first grow in coco+perlite and GH nutes was just with the 3 base nutes and cal-mag. I used the bottled nute recommendation and cut it in half. Weed turned out pretty good and I had good sized plants. A couple weeks into flower on the 2nd grow I did a blitz of research on nutrients schedules and bought bloom enhancers and started changing my ratios weekly and adding Floralicious+ and Unsulphered Molasses. I also was excited at the way my plants looked and bought gallon jugs of each of the 3 part series. Basically all that just to say I've grown with the same stuff my whole time. I figured I get great results so why change it so now I am using it up. I would like to try something different for fun though but I feel obligated to use it up first.

I have the full Dutch Master (420Mag sponsor) line for coco that I won in the Plant of the Month for May contest. I need to sit down and do the math to figure out how close their schedule is to mine and adjust some of their ratios to suit mine and then I will give it a shot. I am looking forward to trying something different and seeing if I get a different result. However my research has basically proven that it's all the same and you just need to know how much of it and when to get the amounts as other lines. Then I will have at least a comparison to go off of for synthetic nutes.

After that I'd love to do an organic grow just to try it out. I've heard all sorts of things about organic growing but I've seen very little on organic growing with coco. I do think if you use all authentic ingredients (this is my theory with cooking too) that you are giving yourself the highest ceiling for quality. With that being said we know in farming that the best fruit isn't always the best yielding. I think the same concepts apply to weed. However, in the end I do not believe it makes that big of a difference in either quality of quantity if that makes sense? Maybe this year I will try it out and test my theory but I don't think it's a game changer.

I've always said light and environment are the two most important factors in growing. I'll throw in grower experience as a close 3rd. Nutes are not in my top 3.
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When you decide you wanna try organic, head over to Do Buds high brix thread and check out what we're growing. Trichs on trichs my friend is what we're growing. Also I'd like to weigh in on the organic v synthetic quality/quantity thing, so I believe that it is easier to produce quality tasty bud with organics. I used a simple super soil premix with my first crop and it is still to this day the best bud I've ever smoked and I know it won't be the best for long because of my high brix grow. That being said, I believe it is possible to grow that same quality tasty bud and get a huge yield with synthetics if you have all the extra additives like basically a full line of nutrients and you do extremely well during their growth and you flush really well. Now us that grow using High Brix Blend or using LOS will probably make a claim that there is something extra special about the bud we grow but I digress, there are distinct advantages to both it comes down to preference. One thing that I believe is super important is to try a bit of everything to see what you like best.
 
Seaweed Farmz said:
When you decide you wanna try organic, head over to Do Buds high brix thread and check out what we're growing. Trichs on trichs my friend is what we're growing. Also I'd like to weigh in on the organic v synthetic quality/quantity thing, so I believe that it is easier to produce quality tasty bud with organics. I used a simple super soil premix with my first crop and it is still to this day the best bud I've ever smoked and I know it won't be the best for long because of my high brix grow. That being said, I believe it is possible to grow that same quality tasty bud and get a huge yield with synthetics if you have all the extra additives like basically a full line of nutrients and you do extremely well during their growth and you flush really well. Now us that grow using High Brix Blend or using LOS will probably make a claim that there is something extra special about the bud we grow but I digress, there are distinct advantages to both it comes down to preference. One thing that I believe is super important is to try a bit of everything to see what you like best.
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I've seen that thread. Doc is a smart guy with a good product. I have a couple options with coco though like coco + amendments or liquid organics that I would try before going back to soil. Coco is just my style. I like your theories on quality and organics and all that. This is why I put grower experience above all this in my ranking of importance. If you know what to expect or just have a good knowledge of a plant life cycle and what it needs you can get high quality stuff when any of these methods.
 
Grow2HealMe said:
That statement makes so much sense. So I have the proper light, I have the proper environment, I have the proper growing medium and I am still happy with my first harvest under my new light. I just didn't want to chase the dream of huuuge buds while growing 100% organic if it's not logically possible from a novice pov.

I can accept my yields could be smaller because I'm so happy with the quality of what I've made. You have so much insight, I kinda asked you a holy grail question, but I looove learning from others' experiences. Soaking it up like the sunshine. Thank you for such a detailed reply. I'm excited that I'm understanding broader concepts.
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One factor for growing bigger buds organically is the container size/roots. To really get big plants and buds from soil, you have to use bigger containers and grow them a bit longer. Speed and size are not the strong points of soil grows. Quality and taste are and are the reasons I will continue to grow organically. My brother grows in DWC and Aeroponically and he grows straight up monsters in spaces than I do but his stuff tastes like crap compared to mine. I will sacrifice bud size and yield for the increased quality.

Now having said that, I have the utmost respect for synthetic/nute growers. They grow some amazing plants and Ase is one of them. I love watching him do his thing in coco.
 
Asesino85 said:
Transplant

I decided to start with some new coco for these girls so I took pictures of my process of rinsing, charging and then transplanting. I am lucky to have a huge drain table to do this in but big rubber or plastic storage bins or garbage cans work as well. First I take the dry coco brick and add a bunch of regular tapwater.

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I then take a strainer for vegetables and quickly strain some of the moisture out. It is still pretty wet at this point but the water I dump is amber and full of dust and sand. I strain them by taking a small bucket and flipping it upside down and placing it in a larger bucket. I then put the strainer in there and dump the wet coco into it. I use another strainer to push down and it does the job pretty well.

I then made a batch of 1-1-1 N-P-K nutrients at 400ppm (6.2 PH) with 200ppm being cal-mag. I also added 1 Ml/Gal of Rapidstart. I dumped that into the buckets of coco and they get soaked again. I let that sit for an hour and then strained it, this time way slower and straining more moisture out then the quick strain before. Here they are getting charged before straining.

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After rinsing the hydroton I put a 1 inch layer into the bottom of the airpot and then started filling coco on top. On the last layer I put an empty pot that is as big as the ones the babies are in and then pull it out. It creates a perfect hole for the young plants to go in. I sprinkled Great White Mycorrhizae in the hole. I then got each plant, held the stem between my middle and index finger and lightly squeezed the outside of the small pot until the plant slides out. I then sprinkle a little more Great White on the roots directly and flip into the premade hole as gently as possible.

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The girls when they were done. Had great, healthy, white roots on all of them. I think I did it without causing hardly any stress so I do not expect any delay. Once I see aggressive veg growth I will top them. Likely sometime in the next 4-6 days.

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Excellent breakdown Ase, I appreciate you taking the time to show this. I always wondered how it was supposed to be done.
 
Van Stank said:
One factor for growing bigger buds organically is the container size/roots. To really get big plants and buds from soil, you have to use bigger containers and grow them a bit longer. Speed and size are not the strong points of soil grows. Quality and taste are and are the reasons I will continue to grow organically. My brother grows in DWC and Aeroponically and he grows straight up monsters in spaces than I do but his stuff tastes like crap compared to mine. I will sacrifice bud size and yield for the increased quality.

Now having said that, I have the utmost respect for synthetic/nute growers. They grow some amazing plants and Ase is one of them. I love watching him do his thing in coco.
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Thanks VS! I think I grow some of the best quality stuff I can get out of coco. I agree that it might never match the ceiling of soil when done correctly but I think a lot of people mess up soil and don't use it to the full potential. Homemade living organic soil to me is as premium as you could get.

I've had numerous people say it's as good, if not better, than top shelf dispensary weed here ($50-60 1/8th). On the flip side to that, I bet the stuff you grow is amazing and super top shelf. Probably can't even find stuff like it unless you grow it or know a good friend. You know what you are doing though and understand growing. I had to find a balance between quality and yield that I really liked. Coco was that balance between both for me. A coco grow with coco and soil amendments might be something I try this year. I've kind of found my way of doing things now so it's time to start experimenting again to learn. Never can be complacent with so many things to try.
 
pennywise said:
Nice! I have 10 purple Envy coming from Gorilla
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I have been looking at that strain for a while. I believe its in my wishlist somewhere LOL
 
Flower Day 27 - Veg Day 15

First I'd like to start off by showing off something a sponsor gave me for 420 Plant of the month of May. It was a Scrog system by P-Scrog and even though I couldn't make it work with the way I grow indoors, I put it to good use. This thing is amazing for peppers and tomatoes. I got started really late this year but I can already see how I am going to use it next year for outdoor tomatoes and peppers. I could also see it working well for outdoor marijuana grows. Even indoor if you only did a plant or two per tent.

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In the past I would try and top as early as possible which was usually around the 2 week mark. I top at the 4th node, get rid of the 1st and 2nd nodes and leave the 3rd node. It give me 4 main branches using the branches from the 3rd and 4th nodes. This time I am going to make sure they are aggressively growing first. It will likely mean that I will have 6-7 nodes and I'll still top down to the 4th. I'm just seeing if giving them a few extra days to grow will cause them from slowing down. I always seem to have one plant get stunted and it is usually after topping. I know not all strains react to training the same but if they are all aggressively growing when I top them then that should be giving them the best shot of not getting stunted. We will see. As of now they have all started going vertical. Lemon was first about two days ago and the Cinderella99 was right behind it yesterday morning. The ICE started going last night and this morning the Jock Horror had started up. I likely will not be topping all of them at the same time but rather when each one seems ready this time. Today was the first day I dumped a good sized feed to where I got runoff in with these girls. Up until now I've only watered to keep things moist and not wet.

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The flower tent is something else right now. I usually get one nice looking plant per cycle. This time I have two. The little Lost Coast OG looks like it will be half the height of the others.

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The Purple's are both gorgeous and both so different. Both are stacking like crazy right now and I hope it never stops!
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Purple Envy Cola - Starting to smell like a deep grape candy.
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Purple Kush Cola - Smells earthy and a little musky.
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pennywise said:
That purple kush is gonna be killer
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I'm just waiting to see what node it stacks down to. So far I am incredibly happy with it. I've heard CKS has a real strong Purple Kush too. Can't wait to try it.
 
Ase, check OldTimingMan's journal before trying the CKS PK. He grew several from seed in hydro and had no consistency whatsoever. Not to slag a sponsor, and I know others have had success with CKS, but I decided against CKS PK as an option based on his experience.

In my extremely limited experience, waiting until ~6 nodes and topping is better. Of course I had other issues in my first grow, but my plants stalled a little early on when I topped early. My round 2 Chocolope got topped twice but only after she was mature and she bounced back strongly both times. My thought was that the superior root structure and maturity of the plan made a big difference. I topped from 5-6 nodes down to 3 in this round, 4 days after potting up and had no slowdown as a result. I'll post up some pics later, they're thriving now.

My only "mistake" was leaving some 2nd nodes against my better judgment. It's hard to take a node off when it's at the canopy! I figure I'll just use them for clones if they don't keep up over the next few weeks.
 
DobeWan said:
Ase, check OldTimingMan's journal before trying the CKS PK. He grew several from seed in hydro and had no consistency whatsoever. Not to slag a sponsor, and I know others have had success with CKS, but I decided against CKS PK as an option based on his experience.

In my extremely limited experience, waiting until ~6 nodes and topping is better. Of course I had other issues in my first grow, but my plants stalled a little early on when I topped early. My round 2 Chocolope got topped twice but only after she was mature and she bounced back strongly both times. My thought was that the superior root structure and maturity of the plan made a big difference. I topped from 5-6 nodes down to 3 in this round, 4 days after potting up and had no slowdown as a result. I'll post up some pics later, they're thriving now.

My only "mistake" was leaving some 2nd nodes against my better judgment. It's hard to take a node off when it's at the canopy! I figure I'll just use them for clones if they don't keep up over the next few weeks.
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Ulga is a CKS Purple Kush. ;). I've got 6 more seeds so I'll get to see if they are consistent but this is shaping up to be my best plant ever. That and Cali OG were my choices for seeds from them from Plant of the Month for May from CKS.

I've done the topping at 5-6 nodes and just topped down to the 4th with good success which is why I am going back to that method. I'm just trying to 100% read the plants this time before doing anything. Each of them individually.
 
CKS wanted me to jump through hoops to get the beans I won in POTM. Fuck it... not worth my time.

I love your PE Ase.
 
TheBlaze said:
CKS wanted me to jump through hoops to get the beans I won in POTM. Fuck it... not worth my time.

I love your PE Ase.
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Yeah I had a different experience with them. They had just put out a statement on the forums talking about changing their image. My experience with them was good just not as good as Gorilla seeds. That was the best seed purchasing experience I have had and Nirvana seeds was a close 2nd.

So far I can't say anything negative about CKS. Just my experience, but I've read some bad experiences with them and heard of inconsistency with some strains. I'll have to see what all my beans from them have in store for me.

I'm at the coast for a few days and they have been stacking like crazy, especially the PE. I'm sure it'll look even better when I get back!
 
I have to say this is the first journal where I finally got to see coco in action. Thank you Ase!

I hate to say it too, but my PK's I got from CKS were very disappointing germ consistency, if at all, considering my health is dependant on my meds, it's so frustrating. Feels like you're just throwing money away, unless you win them for free. The owner promised me a discount on my next PK purchase, now he's gone, they won't honour the specific convo I had with him.

However, their CBDream is one of my fav CBD strains for my brain injury. They do have some great strains, but just a few imo, enough to keep them in business I guess. But Gorilla Seeds loves their customers and Sherry grows herself, so you're dealing with someone who speaks our language.
 
I've had all good experiences from cks. I like how they are just up north and seeds show up within the week. As far as inconsistency, the sour d had three pheno types. One of those pheno was a nice mix of the other two. I've had many orders like that. Now after the ownership switch I got some WW. All were the same, and I believe someone commented saying they looked just like there's. Me I would like to know how close to the real thing are crop Kings genetics.
 
You've had Gorilla Seeds shipped to Canada without issues, G2HM?

I need to make an order at some point in the fall, no rush, but I'm considering trying out another seed bank.
 
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