Any idea what's up with these seedlings?

[bluter]

I'm hoping to get the plants up into the loft by next week so I can put them into their final buckets and then I will be able to try get their feeding schedule sorted out properly.

You posted on my journal a week or two back saying I should inject the feed directly into the perlite as apposed to using one of the drippers.

How far into the perlite should I put the tubes. Each bucket has 2 feed lines.

Thanks again for replying.

As always your help is appreciated also.

about an inch or so in.
the only issue i really have with the drippers is they can splash over the sides. otherwise i actually like rings that circle the edge of the whole bucket. it encourages outward root growth where direct does not. in direct the roots have a tendency to follow the straight path of the water,

 

[MGD420]

you could probably about double your lighting.
also that plastic is super flammable. i avoid panda film like the plague. paint or bubble mylar is the safe route.
if something happened in that room the roof is gonna be fully involved before you even realize you're on fire.

At the moment I have 2 mars hydro sp3000 lights up there. I do have a 3rd sp3000 there but haven't put it up in the loft.
Apparently 1 is good for 4×4 - 3×5 area from what I've read. Both draw 300w but again I've read that apparently 1 sp3000 is the equivalent to roughly a 600w hps.

Maybe @Mars Hydro can possibly answer this and help on coverage and what these lights are equivalent to.

Yea I only used the panda film as it was cheap to buy for the amount I needed and easy to get it all up the loft. I would need to cover the loft in either wood or plasterboard to paint but that would have been my first choice or even twnt material if I was able to get rolls of the stuff. There is a layer of silver insulation behind the panda film but I'm sure like the panda film it would burn along with everything else up there if the loft was to catch fire.
I don't think my next grow is going to be up the loft as it was a headache trying to get everything sorted for the grow and by December everything is going to need to be stripped down again and don't fancy doing it all over again.

 

[bluter]

At the moment I have 2 mars hydro sp3000 lights up there. I do have a 3rd sp3000 there but haven't put it up in the loft.
Apparently 1 is good for 4×4 - 3×5 area from what I've read. Both draw 300w but again I've read that apparently 1 sp3000 is the equivalent to roughly a 600w hps.

Maybe @Mars Hydro can possibly answer this and help on coverage and what these lights are equivalent to.

Yea I only used the panda film as it was cheap to buy for the amount I needed and easy to get it all up the loft. I would need to cover the loft in either wood or plasterboard to paint but that would have been my first choice or even twnt material if I was able to get rolls of the stuff. There is a layer of silver insulation behind the panda film but I'm sure like the panda film it would burn along with everything else up there if the loft was to catch fire.
I don't think my next grow is going to be up the loft as it was a headache trying to get everything sorted for the grow and by December everything is going to need to be stripped down again and don't fancy doing it all over again.

the mylar won't burn, but the plastic bubble will catch eventually. not like the panda. the panda burns, melts, and falls in big gobs of burning plastic.

it literally just happened to bill.

 

[bluter]

you could run all the 3000's judging by how many buckets you have.

 

[MGD420]

about an inch or so in.
the only issue i really have with the drippers is they can splash over the sides. otherwise i actually like rings that circle the edge of the whole bucket. it encourages outward root growth where direct does not. in direct the roots have a tendency to follow the straight path of the water,

There's 2 feed lines for each bucket. I could always use T pieces and split both lines into 4 and place them at each corner if that would work ?

 

[MGD420]

the mylar won't burn, but the plastic bubble will catch eventually. not like the panda. the panda burns, melts, and falls in big gobs of burning plastic.

it literally just happened to bill.

Other than getting busted that is my worst fear with growing. The house catching fire is the last thing I would want or need.
Even with my last grow being in a tent, the thought crossed my mind when coming home from work late at night that I was going to return to a house that was half burnt down, the fire services and police sitting outside. I know a couple of people who returned home to half their house burned to the ground so it's always at the back of my mind.

Does bill know what caused the fire, lights, wiring etc.
What type of lights was he using ?

 

[FelipeBlu]

It’s why I quit growing indoors.

Please get a wifi heat and smoke detector and app for your phone.

Buy a large (20# or bigger) fire extinguisher.

Consider a sprinkler system.

Bill’s case is unusual - but I know many, many people who have experienced frozen cheap monkey fans that narrowly missed burning up the tent. Get a quality fan - not a $ store one.

 

[MGD420]

you could run all the 3000's judging by how many buckets you have.

I would need to adjust where the lights would hang if I was the put the third light up. 2 of the led lights back to back cover the entire length of the buckets. If I had 4 of them.i would have put 2 side by side

 

[MGD420]

It’s why I quit growing indoors.

Please get a wifi heat and smoke detector and app for your phone.

Buy a large (20# or bigger) fire extinguisher.

Consider a sprinkler system.

Bill’s case is unusual - but I know many, many people who have experienced frozen cheap monkey fans that narrowly missed burning up the tent. Get a quality fan - not a $ store one.

I think I will as I really don't fancy the house burning down and where the grow room is situated it directly above both bedrooms and covers part of the livingroom in my house.

What about the heat detector, will the heat from the grow room itself not be enough to set it off ?
If only I was able to grow outdoors I would but unfortunately unless its a gorilla grow its not possible with cannabis being illegal here.

 

[bluter]

Other than getting busted that is my worst fear with growing. The house catching fire is the last thing I would want or need.
Even with my last grow being in a tent, the thought crossed my mind when coming home from work late at night that I was going to return to a house that was half burnt down, the fire services and police sitting outside. I know a couple of people who returned home to half their house burned to the ground so it's always at the back of my mind.

it's super rare with led. hid lighting was much more prone to disaster, and i ran hid for three decades, safety was always in the forefront when planning a room back then.

Does bill know what caused the fire, lights, wiring etc.

they are trying to determine cause right now.

What type of lights was he using ?

he was running a new sponsored led.
a different wall covering choice would probably have greatly reduced the fire or it may have not caught at all. it was made much worse by the panda.

i've known 3 growers local who got burned down at one time or another. they all used panda, it makes things so much worse if it goes sideways.


don't stress on it it's really rare but does happen. i'd run the room the way it is now with a view to upgrade over time.

I would need to adjust where the lights would hang if I was the put the third light up. 2 of the led lights back to back cover the entire length of the buckets. If I had 4 of them.i would have put 2 side by side

4 side by side would be ideal.

 

[MAK1]

Why are the leaves in these seedling curling down ? Is it overwatering, underwatering, heat etc. I posted on my journal asking but didn't get a reply regarding my plants.

At the moment the plants are under a phlizon ph-d6 led light. They get around 18 - 20 hours under the light.

They get watered twice a day with about a shot glass worth of water, once when I wake up in the morning and again before I go to bed at night. At least 12 hours apart.

I just recently started mixing some nutrients in with their feed. 0.5ml of canna aqua vega part A and 0.5ml of canna aqua vega part B.
I mix this into 1 litre of water.

Edit: forgot to mention the seedling are mostly growing in perlite with about 10% of that coco. Their final pos are 100% perlite but used a small amount of coco to get the seeds started.

Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

Roots, or lack of roots. These plants need water but they have not enough roots. Foliar spray and cover with a humidity dome for a couple more days. Let the roots "look" for water as you keep the roots very lightly moistened. The leaf is enough right now. Next time. Hit 'em with more light (blue) from seed and you will get shorted internal lengths for shorter plants with more bad sites

 

[bluter]

Roots, or lack of roots. These plants need water but they have not enough roots. Foliar spray and cover with a humidity dome for a couple more days. Let the roots "look" for water as you keep the roots very lightly moistened. The leaf is enough right now. Next time. Hit 'em with more light (blue) from seed and you will get shorted internal lengths for shorter plants with more bad sites

you got that backwards. blue encourages stretch. a warmer light keeps things more compact.

i grow with a mix of 3000k and 3500k, which is heavily biased to flower. 4000k - 6500K is the blue veg range. it's useless for flower. if you have to run a bias, run a flower bias, does better every time.

 

[MGD420]

it's super rare with led. hid lighting was much more prone to disaster, and i ran hid for three decades, safety was always in the forefront when planning a room back then.

I know that led doesn't give off as much heat as hid lights but I also understand that anything can go wrong and nothing is 100% safe or fool proof so Its always at the back of my mind about leaving the house with everything running.
When It came to putting the extensions up in the loft I bought 50 metre of cable to rewire them so I wasn't having to plug extensions into other extensions so that each extension can be plugged into it's own socket downstairs. Didn't fancy my chance of overloading sockets or extensions.

they are trying to determine cause right now.

I've seen bill post on the forum but don't think I've ever spoken with him but even at that I feel gutted for the guy. Hopefully the fire didn't cause too much damage.

he was running a new sponsored led.
a different wall covering choice would probably have greatly reduced the fire or it may have not caught at all. it was made much worse by the panda.

I'm guessing it was led lights he was growing with ?
It's a bit late in now for me to change the panda film out as everything has been put together and took months of preparing but i'll take heed at whats been said here and my next grow will definitely be done without panda film. Once it comes down it won't be going back up again.

i've known 3 growers local who got burned down at one time or another. they all used panda, it makes things so much worse if it goes sideways.

I know of a couple of growers who are local to me that burned their house/half their house down but could say what caused it, just seen the destruction it caused, not only them but neighbours through the wall, above or downstairs had to evacuate and live elsewhere until the house was repaired.

don't stress on it it's really rare but does happen. i'd run the room the way it is now with a view to upgrade over time.

Like I mentioned in one of my previous replies, I'm not sure if I will be growing in the loft again after this grow but had nowhere else to grow as many plants. It's the inconvenience of having to get ladders to then climb up a loft to then maneuver over joists to get to the grow area, then every December I would need to strip everything down for the yearly gas inspection as engineers always take a look up the loft where the flu for the boiler exits the house.

4 side by side would be ideal.

The electric bill wouldn't be ideal running 4 though lol. Just running the 2 lights last time along with the dehumidifier fans etc almost doubled my electric bill.

 

[bluter]

I know that led doesn't give off as much heat as hid lights but I also understand that anything can go wrong and nothing is 100% safe or fool proof so Its always at the back of my mind about leaving the house with everything running.
When It came to putting the extensions up in the loft I bought 50 metre of cable to rewire them so I wasn't having to plug extensions into other extensions so that each extension can be plugged into it's own socket downstairs. Didn't fancy my chance of overloading sockets or extensions.



I've seen bill post on the forum but don't think I've ever spoken with him but even at that I feel gutted for the guy. Hopefully the fire didn't cause too much damage.




I'm guessing it was led lights he was growing with ?
It's a bit late in now for me to change the panda film out as everything has been put together and took months of preparing but i'll take heed at whats been said here and my next grow will definitely be done without panda film. Once it comes down it won't be going back up again.

you can sheet right over it if you want to go that way. it makes an incredible vapour barrier and would be half the work. vapour protection and light blocking is actually what panda was developed for.

it's used in apps where stuff has to stay dry on the inside. it wasn't developed for the grow market.

Like I mentioned in one of my previous replies, I'm not sure if I will be growing in the loft again after this grow but had nowhere else to grow as many plants. It's the inconvenience of having to get ladders to then climb up a loft to then maneuver over joists to get to the grow area, then every December I would need to strip everything down for the yearly gas inspection as engineers always take a look up the loft where the flu for the boiler exits the house.

cripes. that's a royal pain.

The electric bill wouldn't be ideal running 4 though lol. Just running the 2 lights last time along with the dehumidifier fans etc almost doubled my electric bill.

they got you guys over a barrel on hydro cost. i'm running a 600w rig in the flower room plus a massive extractor and it couldn't add more than 5 - 10% on the bill.

 

[MGD420]

you can sheet right over it if you want to go that way. it makes an incredible vapour barrier and would be half the work. vapour protection and light blocking is actually what panda was developed for.

it's used in apps where stuff has to stay dry on the inside. it wasn't developed for the grow market.

I did think about it half way through building the grow area. I thought about using ply or mdf board and cutting it in half to get it up the loft, painting it white and using white tape to seal between the boards but again the overall cost and not having enough spare cash to buy certain stuff.

cripes. that's a royal pain.

It certainly is.
It's the thought of the time it took to build the grow area to then have to rip it all down before the inspections. Then spending days or even weeks trying put it all back up it kind of made me think about a second grow up the loft before i even started this one. Tents can be put up and taken down in a 5 - 10 mins, easier to access etc. I know if i had used boards it would have taken way less time but again the rafters everywhere.

they got you guys over a barrel on hydro cost. i'm running a 600w rig in the flower room plus a massive extractor and it couldn't add more than 5 - 10% on the bill.

The cost of fuel, gas and electric here is extortionate, it doesn't help that at this precise moment i'm with the most expensive gas and electric supplier in the country. I'll be looking to move to another supplier asap.

 

[MAK1]

you got that backwards. blue encourages stretch. a warmer light keeps things more compact.

i grow with a mix of 3000k and 3500k, which is heavily biased to flower. 4000k - 6500K is the blue veg range. it's useless for flower. if you have to run a bias, run a flower bias, does better every time.

 

[MAK1]

I'm not wrong. Perhaps I can explain it better. I am only referring to the early growth cycles. If you give your plants additional blue light from seedlings to the first 2-3 weeks only, the result will be shorter plants. After this use your usual lighting.
HPS lighted plants always get so tall and spindly, have weak stems, and huge inter-nodal lengths, lack of blue frequency is the reason. Adding blue early on will correct this problem.
This addition of blue LED chips one of the reasons LEDs are the future of lighting. We can control different frequencies during different growth stages. The Sun has more blue at sunrise, more red at sunset. Same thing happens in springtime (more blue frequencies) and in the fall we get more red. Red is for flowering, not much use to a seedling. Plants stretch to "see" blue light this is true. However once the "see" the blue light they stop stretching.
If you have an HPS set up and you put a control plant along with the subject plant that got more blue during early growth. Now place them both into HPS or your normal light and the blue plant will be shorter every time and continue to grow stockier with shorter internodal space.
Lack of blue causes stretching. Once a plant sees blue they stop stretching. Full spectrum for healthy plants and lots more red for flowering that massive amount of bud sites.

Not confused just hungry. Are you gonna eat that brownie?

 

[bluter]

I'm not wrong. Perhaps I can explain it better. I am only referring to the early growth cycles. If you give your plants additional blue light from seedlings to the first 2-3 weeks only, the result will be shorter plants. After this use your usual lighting.
HPS lighted plants always get so tall and spindly, have weak stems, and huge inter-nodal lengths, lack of blue frequency is the reason. Adding blue early on will correct this problem.

older HPS and MH lighting was very very narrow in kelvin. HPS in particular doesn't carry the blue, which is exactly why you saw those results. MH carries tons of blue but is a bit skint in red, you can flower with MH though.

This addition of blue LED chips one of the reasons LEDs are the future of lighting. We can control different frequencies during different growth stages. The Sun has more blue at sunrise, more red at sunset. Same thing happens in springtime (more blue frequencies) and in the fall we get more red. Red is for flowering, not much use to a seedling. Plants stretch to "see" blue light this is true. However once the "see" the blue light they stop stretching.

it has a bit more to do with the entire spectrum and the white light revolution.

i built and sold led cob rigs under a branded name for a number of years locally, and have led experience through another industry as well.

If you have an HPS set up and you put a control plant along with the subject plant that got more blue during early growth. Now place them both into HPS or your normal light and the blue plant will be shorter every time and continue to grow stockier with shorter internodal space.

you really can't compare HID lighting to led.

all white light led emitters carry more of the total spectrum than their HID counterparts. it has to by definition in order to create a white light. otherwise we'd all still be stuck back in the days of burple.

you have to get in to extreme kelvin before it starts getting skint at the other end. ie - a 2700K emitter is not gonna have much blue, but there will be some, just not enough to be useful in seedling / veg. same goes for a 6500k emitter not bringing enough red to flower decent.

Lack of blue causes stretching. Once a plant sees blue they stop stretching. Full spectrum for healthy plants and lots more red for flowering that massive amount of bud sites.

the newer strip and q-board lighting has the advantage of carrying loads more emitters than the older cob. this makes it possible to run a wider mix of K, allowing builders to "tune" the rig for a full spectrum.

on a straight cob rig you have to hit the spot you want in K. dedicated flower rigs would run a mix of 2700k and 3000k. dedicated veg rigs would run at 4000k and 4500k. both rigs would carry enough spectrum that you could veg or flower under them if needed, it just wouldn't be ideal.


the 'full spectrum' rigs i built were a mix of 3000k and 3500k. this is my personal preference and was by far the most popular set up. i still get requests for them. an HID rig would not be as successful running those K as a led rig. the led simply carries more.


the 3000k/3500k rigs work fantastic throughout both veg and flower, with a decided flower bias.

Not confused just hungry. Are you gonna eat that brownie?

made me laugh ..
i don't think you're confused, you just can't really equate a led emitter to what happens under HID

 

[MAK1]

older HPS and MH lighting was very very narrow in kelvin. HPS in particular doesn't carry the blue, which is exactly why you saw those results. MH carries tons of blue but is a bit skint in red, you can flower with MH though.








it has a bit more to do with the entire spectrum and the white light revolution.

i built and sold led cob rigs under a branded name for a number of years locally, and have led experience through another industry as well.








you really can't compare HID lighting to led.

all white light led emitters carry more of the total spectrum than their HID counterparts. it has to by definition in order to create a white light. otherwise we'd all still be stuck back in the days of burple.

you have to get in to extreme kelvin before it starts getting skint at the other end. ie - a 2700K emitter is not gonna have much blue, but there will be some, just not enough to be useful in seedling / veg. same goes for a 6500k emitter not bringing enough red to flower decent.






the newer strip and q-board lighting has the advantage of carrying loads more emitters than the older cob. this makes it possible to run a wider mix of K, allowing builders to "tune" the rig for a full spectrum.

on a straight cob rig you have to hit the spot you want in K. dedicated flower rigs would run a mix of 2700k and 3000k. dedicated veg rigs would run at 4000k and 4500k. both rigs would carry enough spectrum that you could veg or flower under them if needed, it just wouldn't be ideal.


the 'full spectrum' rigs i built were a mix of 3000k and 3500k. this is my personal preference and was by far the most popular set up. i still get requests for them. an HID rig would not be as successful running those K as a led rig. the led simply carries more.


the 3000k/3500k rigs work fantastic throughout both veg and flower, with a decided flower bias.






made me laugh ..
i don't think you're confused, you just can't really equate a led emitter to what happens under HID

OMG I am sooo messed up. My story might be straight but this my response to a different post. Opps!
I went to the top of the post and realized I already ate the brownie about an hour earlier.
Excuse me. Snap!

 

[bluter]

OMG I am sooo messed up. My story might be straight but this my response to a different post. Opps!
I went to the top of the post and realized I already ate the brownie about an hour earlier.
Excuse me. Snap!

well you're not really that far off, and your post does seem relevant to this thread lol.
it's still good info.