AngryBird's Perpetual Organic Garden, T8 Lights, Homemade Food

Growlow said:
This is a great place for learning. What I love most is how those who have experience share it without bias or inflated ego's. I can be direct in delivering my information just due to my nature and influence from working in a scientific field. Secondly because I don't like to beat around the bush. With that said I'm the first to admit when someone has a more effective/efficient method or process. I was lucky to have the decade of mentorship that I was gifted by second generation dutch growers in the outback of Australia. Ideal sativa climate. Very close to the equator. But back to the point. I'm more than happy to answer any and all question you have. If I don't know I won't be shy in telling you. I just read your pm I'll try get back to you as soon as possible :) Hope you're having an awesome day! Ka kite anō
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ka kite anu :thanks: and yes, sharing without EGO is always best.
That is how you get the same in return.
But actually, the most important.. MAKES ME FEEL so much better (lol sounded ego)
I have a question for you so...

I will send you another PM :)
 
RueBakon said:
Hi AngryBird and peeps.

AB...You are so in depth with your journal..Awesome!

I'm late to the party so I'll watch through the window till a spot opens up.


Grow-On Angrybird!
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I got room right here next to me Rue... I don't bite; well, not unless you want me to. :)
 
RueBakon said:
Hi AngryBird and peeps.

AB...You are so in depth with your journal..Awesome!

I'm late to the party so I'll watch through the window till a spot opens up.


Grow-On Angrybird!
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Hi the stage is wide so everyone has room at first row :) welcome welcome :thanks: for joining.
 
Emilya said:
I got room right here next to me Rue... I don't bite; well, not unless you want me to. :)
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:rofl: :rofl: need to mix something up for bites then....hm... Em you don't have rabies right?? :rofl:
 
AngryBird said:
:rofl: :rofl: need to mix something up for bites then....hm... Em you don't have rabies right?? :rofl:
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not last time I was checked... you never know about these things though; I do hang with a wild crowd.
 
Emilya said:
not last time I was checked... you never know about these things though; I do hang with a wild crowd.
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:rofl: so we need to check... cannabis cures bites?? Helps for rabies?? hm....

WillysMom said:
Hi Birdie! Subbed in and caught up. You have a ton of great information in here! Looking forward to your journal. I know it will be as fun as you are!!
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:circle-of-love::welcome: Welcome welcome welcome :) We try to laugh a lot.. you live longer :) Grab a pillow or ang out on the couch.. feel like home.
I share of my knowledge just like everyone here has shared theirs :)
 
HEADS UP 5/8-2016

My pineapple Chunk was watered with plain water for 3 days ( with some vinegar to lower PH ) and the blackish color on the 2 first leaves has shaded of. It surely looks like my Overdose of N theory was correct.
When I planted the seeds, my concern was that PH of soil was 7.0-7.5 so I wanted to lower it and added some coffee grounds in the soil. And some in the water ( my water has PH 8!) I went overboard I know.. I was reading that Carnival like it around PH 6 so ,,,yes I panicked. Enough of talking.. here are pictures of the ..so far.. 2 babies.

Pineapple Chunk born 30/7-16, 6 days old:
DSC_011930.jpg


Deep Cheese born 1/8-16, 4 days old:
DSC_012029.jpg

They still only have 2 CFLs and 1 LED light. I am looking into adding some red and blue in there.
Still low on money but high on love :circle-of-love:.
Thank you for taking the time to read my journal.
 
hey birdie, girls are happening eh.

don't sweat the PH so hard with soil. it is very forgiving of things. tends to act like a natural filter for the plants. running soil, I don't PH at all, and my water runs 7.5-8 at the best of times. overthinking will do more damage than good.

have fun eh
 
Emilya said:
I have to jump in with my 3c of opinion here... I am totally against using baking soda in our gardens. The reason is the chemical composition of baking soda, NaHCO3, meaning it's made of one sodium atom, one hydrogen atom, one carbon atom, and three oxygen atoms. The oxygen and hydrogen atoms are fine, but the carbon atom is added waste and the sodium atom is a problem. Build up too much sodium and the roots will shut down... plants do not like salt. We regularly flush salts out of our soil that are left over after our synthetic nutrients break down, but by all means, do what you can not to add any additional salts to the mix. The problem with baking soda is that it takes so much of it to move the pH back up after adding nutrients, that the added salt does become a problem over time.

A much better kitchen product to use as a pH up is pickling lime, Ca(OH)2 . It is very strong and doesn't take much to raise that pH back up to where it needs to be, and note that not only does it not have salt, but it has calcium, oxygen and hydrogen... all needed by the plants. The only problem is that at room temperature pickling lime is a little hard to get mixed into the solution and you have to be patient with it... a little goes a long ways.

I found toward the end of my synthetic phase of growing that it was easier to use lye as my pH up, which you can get behind the counter at any hardware store. Again, a little goes a long way, but it is also a salt... it is just doesn't have the extra carbon atom to add extra waste to the soil and you use so little of it that the salt isn't much of a problem.

As far as pH down, lemon juice works, but it takes a lot of it to get good pH movement, and as it breaks down it attracts bugs to your soil. I needed a clean and cheap pH down, and I found it with battery acid, H2SO4. I would have preferred to use phosphoric acid, but it is a little exciting doing that chemical reaction at home and it is a bit expensive to buy.... but look at the chemicals in sulphuric acid... 2xHydrogen, 1xSuphur and 4xOxygen. This is all useful to the plant, with no waste! To safely use battery acid, just buy a $6 box at your local auto parts store, and a gallon of distilled water. Take out one cup of the distilled water and replace it slowly with one cup of battery acid. You now have a 15:1 water/acid mix that closely approximates the acid content of the popular pH down product at the hydro stores.... and you just made enough to last for a year, for pennies.
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Emilya said:
H2SO4 ... two hydrogen atoms, one sulphur atom and 4 oxygen atoms... nothing in there that can harm you or the plants. You are not using it in a strength that is caustic, all it is, is a bit acidic by the time you cut it down to 15:1.

Let's look at common vinegar as a comparison and ask how it can be a healthy choice. It is known to chemists as Acetic Acid, CH3COOH, and again breaking it down we find one carbon atom, 4 hydrogen atoms and 2 oxygen atoms... broken down it won't harm a thing... Acetic Acid in its pure form is actually pretty ugly.

The point is that all of these compounds break down as soon as they begin interacting with other things and eventually sort out into their base components. It is very possible to add things to your soil that break down into harmful elements, things you would not want to have in your smoke or your body. The acids we have been discussing are not those things... they are considered to be catalysts that break apart other compounds, but in themselves, especially in the dilutions that we are talking about, they are harmless to you, your plants and to the microlife living in your soil.

Lastly, let me give you this example... Coke has a pH of 2.252... quite acidic actually... you can feel the burn as you drink it. Battery acid has a pH of 1.0, not too far away from Coke, and yet you still drink that stuff. Let me repeat your question, how can THIS be a healthy choice?
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KHCO3

Carbon is not a problem in the soil food web, in fact it's a very necessary energy source. Many forms of micro biology use ingested carbon. Plants excrete carbonate compounds (root exudates) in order to attract and support certain types of biology in the rhizosphere.

With that in mind, plus the added K, you can see why Potassium Bicarbonate is an attractive PH up.

I've never had an issue using phosphoric acid as a PH down.

Speaking of acids and catalysts, some greens like spinach need additional acids (dressing with vinegar or citrus acid) for us to make the iron available when eating them.


:circle-of-love:
 
unforgiven said:
hey birdie, girls are happening eh.

don't sweat the PH so hard with soil. it is very forgiving of things. tends to act like a natural filter for the plants. running soil, I don't PH at all, and my water runs 7.5-8 at the best of times. overthinking will do more damage than good.

have fun eh
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and the other side of the argument is that pH can be very critical, and it depends entirely on the line of nutes that you choose to use. Most people who run synthetic nutes and who do not adjust pH, have trouble. It makes no sense to spend money on nutes and then not use them correctly and let most of it run out into the drip tray. Some nutes work just fine with bad water... generally these are expensive nutes designed with buffering agents in them. Some people with high pH water get by with watering with their high pH water one time, and then mixing it with their nutes the next time... and the balance between the two extremes, without extra adjustment, just happens to balance out into the proper pH range in their containers. These are very lucky people and mother nature is looking out for them.. but in the final analysis, they also adjusted their pH... they just didn't realize it. Sometimes overthinking does a whole lot of good... and sometimes ignorance is bliss... it all depends on your perspective.
 
Heirloom said:
KHCO3

Carbon is not a problem in the soil food web, in fact it's a very necessary energy source. Many forms of micro biology use ingested carbon. Plants excrete carbonate compounds (root exudates) in order to attract and support certain types of biology in the rhizosphere.

With that in mind, plus the added K, you can see why Potassium Bicarbonate is an attractive PH up.

I've never had an issue using phosphoric acid as a PH down.

Speaking of acids and catalysts, some greens like spinach need additional acids (dressing with vinegar or citrus acid) for us to make the iron available when eating them.


:circle-of-love:
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works just fine in an active rhizosphere, and that is why farmers use it in their fields. In a synthetic, chlorine cleansed, non organic grow... this stuff simply won't break down.
 
ignorance is bliss??? wtf a wee bit argumentative?

well I will turn the other cheek and walk away.

good luck on your grow here,

and have fun eh
 
Emilya said:
and the other side of the argument is that pH can be very critical, and it depends entirely on the line of nutes that you choose to use. Most people who run synthetic nutes and who do not adjust pH, have trouble. It makes no sense to spend money on nutes and then not use them correctly and let most of it run out into the drip tray. Some nutes work just fine with bad water... generally these are expensive nutes designed with buffering agents in them. Some people with high pH water get by with watering with their high pH water one time, and then mixing it with their nutes the next time... and the balance between the two extremes, without extra adjustment, just happens to balance out into the proper pH range in their containers. These are very lucky people and mother nature is looking out for them.. but in the final analysis, they also adjusted their pH... they just didn't realize it. Sometimes overthinking does a whole lot of good... and sometimes ignorance is bliss... it all depends on your perspective.
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Emilya, thanks for this good info. I've watered my plants with my expensive delivered water. 4 of the plants are in the last few weeks and I know it's time to start flushing. Can I use the tap water (with high PH) to do that? I hate to waste the bottled water because it's just going down the drain during flush.
 
Didn't intend to be argumentative until in a long conversation about adjusting pH, someone comes along and says it isn't necessary. Contrary advice invites argument. What I note now is that you won't allow an examination as to why not adjusting pH works for you, you have chosen to make it personal that I disagreed with you. This was not personal sir... I was trying to use science and logic to figure out why not adjusting pH works for you, while trying to make it clear that in the face of the hundreds of thousands of people out there who feel that adjusting pH is an important thing to do, it probably would not be a wise idea to follow your advice as given... there are reasons that it works for you, and that you can grow prize winning plants... and I for one would like to learn what you are doing to make that happen. But please, the science has been proven and is written in the instructions of most nutrient lines... there are certain ranges for pH. You can't just come along and tell a synthetic grower that it makes no difference, and that the soil will take care of it... I can't let that stand without saying something.

So, I apologize for using the word ignorant and upsetting you. Please know that I was not calling you ignorant. If we were talking about an organic grow, you would not be wrong at all. I myself no longer adjust pH, because as you say, the soil and the microbes don't care, at least within the range that we play. But please... why come along with a statement like that, to a synthetic grower, and confuse them?
 
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