AKGramma's Perpetual Grow

Tead: 2 of my OGKs and two of my BBLs are in perlite only, except for a tiny bit of top dressing, which I added later due to deficiency issues. All the other hempys are mostly perlite with less than 25% vermiculite in the basic mix. They all look soggy because I just watered them! ;-)

Now the seedlings are more like 50/50 perlite to soil/sand/vermiculite, with a top dressing of a few TBs of worm castings.

The problem I have with pure perlite is that the stems of the adults are not stable and the plants want to lean, even tho the roots have hit the reservoirs. I'm having to reinforce them.


So, I'm no fan of some of your hempy medium mixes. Sand has no place in a hempy pot... it's all going to float down to the bottom and fill the res area.
Let's step back a minute and ponder what roots need. First, light is a no-no of course. Then, they need water and oxygen. Too much or too little of either is bad juju. Since we're using a drain to waste (DtW) method, we're not recirculating and oxygenating the water, thus we might expect have some challenges providing oxygen to the roots. Plus, most of us are using water that has sat for some time, so that water itself contains less oxygen as well.
The symptoms are similar to an over-water in soil... which is basically the same problem. Curled boated leaves are your main pointer.
A side issue you may encounter is root rot. Roots that can't breath die. This triggers the root rot process. Excessively cloudy runoff and a curled plant are your indicators for root rot. You may also detect a rotting odor.

Are your tipping pure perlite plants in those shallow containers? If so, I might suggest that the container is just to shallow. Deeper roots hold the plant better.
 
I was over in Tead's journal. He's doing an experiment with tall hempys made from PVC drain pipe. This reminded me of the benefit of taller containers with more volume. Below is a copy of my reply to Tead.
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I see the logic in taller hempys, to accommodate the roots, so they don't wrap themselves around the pot. My ladies sure like the tall kitchen trash cans (24" 13 gallons) I transplanted them to. I even got more growth out of my poor OGK clones.

If I get a chance, or if I can ground layer one of my last OGK ladies, I will put them under the LED and see if I can get a better leaf structure out of the clones.
________________

This also reminded me of why my OGKs have such underdeveloped leaves. I need to get them under the LEDs with supplemental lighting, not just CFL's. OGKs seem to need more of everything to develop to their full potential. More light (with something higher than CFL's), bigger pots, more nutes. I have learned that they tend to grow low, so I don't have to worry about them topping my 48" headspace.

Thanks, Tead!
 
Tead: The shallow containers contain the soil mix I use. I am not going to use them again because they take up too much sq. footage, and I seem to have enough headroom to use taller containers. The tall containers are the hempys with perlite and about 20% vermiculite to some and 2 are just pure perlite, for comparison.

I see your point about sand in the mix with hempys. TY for that! There isn't much sand left in the used soil, as it did settle out, like you said. The soil has lost its porosity. This is esp important with the OGK's which are finicky. The OGK's are in perlite/vermculite with no soil. But I DID transplant them from soil to Perlite as 4-month old juveniles, and, this is the main problem, they didn't get the right medium or lighting in veg. Lesson learned!

If I can get a viable OGK clone by layering, I'll use the Perlite mix from clone through maturity and see the difference.

The seedlings will go into the Perlite mix, when I up-pot. Time to make some mid-sized hempy pots, eh? I have plenty of empty half-gallon juice containers lying around!
 
Ya know... the re-plant dance has just never gone well for me. I was recently reminded why I'm no fan of it. I avoid it by just planting into my final containers. Perhaps I'm just lazy.

That WOULD cut down on work - a LOT of work! And you don't need to clutter your space with 3 or 4 sizes of pots.

If I had the room, I would do the same, but I have a batch of photo seedlings I have to sex, and I don't want to waste space on them until they prove that they are female.

I suppose I could sex the free mystery seedlings and cull the males. How soon do you think I can get away with that? They're just 3 weeks old.
 
Dunno... been pondering the idea myself. I like to stay with female genetics and usually avoid the issue, but I got 5 Afgann regs as a freebie in a seed order.

Well.... I'm TRYING to stay with female genetics, but I got these mystery freebies in an order. :rofl:

Best guess anyone?
 
Just wanted to buzz in and give lil . Great job on getting these seeds to germ. I'm learning some cool techniques and the pics help so much. Great growing!

Thank you so much, and welcome to my little grow! Most of the visitors to my journal have much bigger gardens and different grow methods than mine. I encourage you to visit their journals, too. That's where I learn.
 
Since my seedlings are past the 3 week mark, I decided to put them in with the ladies in flower, in order to sex them. As soon as I know, I will cull the males and move the little girls back into veg.

I need to make room for incoming seeds; strains that I have not tried yet. Off to Home Depot to buy more trash bins for hempy pots and a big bag of coarse Perlite!

Yes, Tead and Sue, I'm going to switch to hempys, because I can get more into my spaces and perlite is a whole lot lighter to move around than soil. (SHHHHHH! Don't tell Tead, but I'm going to add a bit of Vermiculite to the mix)
 
Came home with 5 more 3 gallon trash bins to convert to hempys. Only this time they had black in stock, and they were on sale, so I got 5. I almost got 5 gallon bins, but I had to factor in the extra height, plus the extra perlite I'd have to buy. These are 13' tall, and rectangular... kinda. They are bowed out a little, pretending they are oval. I can get 2 in a plastic storage bin that catches the waste water.

I couldn't lift the 4 CF perlite bag in the store, so settled for the 2 CF, and it was the only brand that specifically said "coarse perlite" on the bag. The 1 CF bags are ground finer and have a lot of dust. I can't see how that fine stuff aerates the soil.

I have acquired a variety of fem seeds, so plan to pop just one of each strain and learn what I can about each. It's school time for this Old B...., er Lady!

Remember the BBL branches I ground layered? I tugged on them and they held firm, so I cut them from the mother. They are a bit wilted, so I'm spritzing the leaves a couple times a day. I probably should trim off the flowers, now that they are in veg, to reduce the stress and the hormones. I hope I didn't cut them too soon.

So, babies here, clones there, empty hempys crying out for planting, seeds begging to be popped..... oh, what's a gal to do?
 
Came home with 5 more 3 gallon trash bins to convert to hempys.

I've used 2-liter soda pop bottles because they were free (Mountain Dew, by preference, because I've never felt the need to paint those). You get smaller plants, of course. But you can pack a lot of them into a small space (or into a pan).

In case I have not already mentioned it here, this was a great "hempy" style journal, in which 2-liter bottles were used:
Come SOG with Me - 112 Plant - 2 Liter - Hempy SOG
He basically placed rooted cuttings directly into flower, perpetually.

These are 13' tall

I am going to assume you meant 13" tall ;) . Although it is true that cannabis plants generally seem to do better in a deeper container than a shallower one (of the same volume). But it's often a choice between taking up limited grow space area versus taking up limited grow space height, I suppose.

settled for the 2 CF

That's the largest size I have ever been able to find in my local area. And even that is a treasure hunt. Out of curiosity, how much does that size cost (and the 4 ft.³ ones)?

it was the only brand that specifically said "coarse perlite" on the bag.

I cannot find that at all around here, sadly.

The 1 CF bags are ground finer and have a lot of dust. I can't see how that fine stuff aerates the soil.

It quickly gets washed out through watering. Or it could be rinsed out, I guess (which is what the company should have done before packaging it, but that adds expense/complexity and arguably reduces the final product by a tiny, tiny amount).

I have acquired a variety of fem seeds, so plan to pop just one of each strain and learn what I can about each.

Seems like an adventure. But do remember that, unless your seeds are from IBL (inbred lines) - and to an extent even then - then multiple seeds of a strain can and often do produce multiple phenotypes. Since the vast majority of commercially available strains (seeds) sold today are at best F₁ (and, with people ripping off other breeder's strains, lots of seeds being sold are F₁xF₁, et cetera), I'll assume that if you have three seeds of a given strain and grow one, what you learn from doing so may not be completely applicable to one or both of the remaining seeds.

Some people who end up with multiple seeds of one strain prefer to germinate and grow them all at once, flower them, harvest, and cure the resulting buds - and then to use the information gleaned in order to choose which, if any, of those plants will become "keepers." That requires space, though, not only to grow all the plants at once but to keep the "original" plants in the vegetative phase (either actively growing or more or less in stasis) so that they'll be available after the learning experience has concluded.

Others will germinate one seed, grow it, take a cutting (or several), root them, and then eventually flower the clones, harvest the yield, and cure it. They will then repeat this process with each seed from the strain until they've grown out all of them, compare the cured bud (and other characteristics, such as yield amount, flowering time, etc.), and choose one or more mothers, disposing of or giving away all the others.

I probably should trim off the flowers, now that they are in veg, to reduce the stress and the hormones.

I have seen people not remove flowers. Then again, I've always been told to pick fruits so that the plant won't end up "thinking" its life cycle is finished. But I do not think it matters greatly unless there were a lot of flowers/buds, or if they were well along.

I hope I didn't cut them too soon.

The umbilical has been cut, now you have to feed the little <BLEEP> ;) . But, seriously, their means for getting nourishment have just been drastically reduced. You may have to feed less and more often for a little while until their root systems are well-established. It shouldn't take long, and you can begin reducing the frequency to encourage "seeking" (root growth).

I'm just rambling. I've been at my mother's for a while and am going stir crazy.
 
LOL! TS, Mothers tend to drive their grown kids crazy. It's payback, y'know, for when you drove HER crazy.

I will take your advice on feeding the ground-layered clones. Their mother was 1 month into flower, and I mean F L O W E R! Pistils and flower clusters spaced almost perfectly from top to bottom-most branches! And they, too were covered with the same. I will have to trim those off, I think.

And, yes, I meant 13 inches tall for my OGKs.

You hit it on the nose for the factors I had to consider between wide and shallow bins vs tall and narrow trash containers.

I have lots and lots of used 2 to 4 liter bottles/jugs I've grown MJ through the juvenile stages.
 
TS: I forgot to answer your questions about cost of Perlite here. A 2 CF bag of name-brand coarse Perlite costs around $18. a bag. A 4 CF bag of generic Perlite with no indication as to coarse, fine, or industrial grade costs about $25. I'd rather pay for the material that is labelled than pay less for something that might not be suitable for my needs.

Edit: The brand was OMRI and I bought it at Home Depot. You CAN order it from the store and if your purchase is over a certain amount, they will deliver it.
 
TS: I forgot to answer your questions about cost of Perlite here. A 2 CF bag of name-brand coarse Perlite costs around $18. a bag. A 4 CF bag of generic Perlite with no indication as to coarse, fine, or industrial grade costs about $25.

Six or eight years ago I could buy it all day long for $13 per 2 ft.³. Now it is between $26 and $30 for the same amount, when it is in stock (March). I figured you'd have to pay $50 or $60 for it in Alaska. Guess I live in the wrong state, lol (that is probably not news to anyone who lives here :rolleyes3 ).

Edit: The brand was OMRI and I bought it at Home Depot. You CAN order it from the store and if your purchase is over a certain amount, they will deliver it.

Your local Home Depot stocks perlite in any size other than those little "quarts" sized Suzi Homemaker bags?!? Huh.

Not at all sure I'd want to have bulk gardening supplies delivered - especially from someone local. I'm getting a little too old to shoot and dispose of a thief's carcass, so I try really hard not to mention gardening, cannabis, etc. to anyone that I wouldn't trust with my life or a pretty woman's virtue.

LOL! TS, Mothers tend to drive their grown kids crazy. It's payback, y'know, for when you drove HER crazy.

I'll grant that I caused many of the gray hairs on my mother's head to appear (after all, I was responsible for causing her to set a coat on fire in JC Penny's back when you could still smoke at the mall, lol). But she has been trying to drive me to suicide off and on since I was four years old or so. <SHRUGS> She has not been successful at it (as of yet), obviously. And I have so far managed not to snap and pull a Lizzie Borden. But I think there ought to be a point where every parent must stamp that particular account as "paid in full."

I will take your advice on feeding the ground-layered clones.

Take my advice with a grain of salt ;) .

Their mother was 1 month into flower, and I mean F L O W E R! Pistils and flower clusters spaced almost perfectly from top to bottom-most branches!

At one point in time I revegged a few plants after harvest. I left some buds on the plants (since they were about all that was still there, lol) and those plants did fine. But it was a different situation. For one thing, those plants had extensive root systems. So I cannot advise you not to remove the buds/flowers... I suppose it's like any rooted cutting - you end up removing matter that isn't actively contributing to energy generation/storage if the cutting does not appear to have sufficient roots to uptake enough water/nutrients to support everything.

I have lots and lots of used 2 to 4 liter bottles/jugs I've grown MJ through the juvenile stages.

It'll work for flowering containers, too. You get smaller plants/buds - but I guess 100 seven to fifteen gram plants is nothing to sneeze at. Can be useful even in a general (flower) area if one has extra space or wishes to add in a strain but not to have that strain overgrow the room.

I'm just rambling again; too hot/sweaty to sleep. I went out about 45 minutes ago when it actually dropped below 80°F to see if I could sleep on the front porch, but only succeeded in giving some insects a feast. Seemed like when I was eight years old we had one of the hottest days on record (at the time) and it dropped to about 65°F overnight. <SIGH> Sure wish it'd snow....
 
We're getting some badly-needed rain now, and it's actually cool enough to keep the grow room under 80 F, with fans sucking air from the north window.

As for the clone by ground-layering, I do like this method, but next time I'll leave the clones attached to the mother a lot longer. I sorta wanted to get the clones to reveg before they went too far into flower.

If these two fail, I do have two successful clones of the bbl in veg that i can grow out and further clone. I really like this strain. It smells sweet, is sticky as cotton candy, and the family really likes the body relaxation they get. And when in flower, it is so pretty.
 
Please note: Since my journal has gone way beyond a simple BBL grow, I'm asking the mods to change the name to AKGramma's Perpetual Grow.

I will also change this in my siggy, when the change is made. So please don't get confused.
 
Normally I don't get much time to tend grow unit #2, because I have it on a night shift to reduce the amount of heat in the grow room. This AM I got up early and visited Unit 2. It was FULL OF MITE WEBS! This unit contains my last 3 OGKs and two mid-flower BBLs. I was so devastated, I was tempted to toss all 5 plants.

I was rudely reminded why I have learned to hate OGKs. The mites were thickest on them, and the buggers spread to the BBLs, but not nearly as bad.

But then I saw the lovely little buds all over the plants and went to WAR! First I trimmed off all the leaves that were harboring colonies of adults and eggs. Then I thoroughly soaked each plant with neem+dish soap in a last attempt to save these 5 plants.

When I get a chance, I'm going to hunt for Borg Mites in unit #1, taking out and inspecting every plant and doing what I have to in order to stop them. #1 has the ladies who are almost finished, all BBLs, and Frilly lady.
 
I spent the last hour and a half inspecting trimming, spraying, cleaning out, and rearranging Unit #1, with the ladies who will be harvested first, up front, where I can get at them. I had treated them for mites a couple days ago, but I wasn't going to take any chances that there were any live eggs in Unit #1. I removed any 3-fingered and larger leaves that had white bumps underneath and white spots on the tops from lack of chlorophyll.

About all are left are some very sticky sugar leaves, covered with trics, and plump calyxes.

The BBL stems are so tall, I had to support them. Since the units are not very deep (24" shelving) I put push pins in the wall and with garden ties, secured the tall stems to the pins, leaving a bit of space for aeration. There is a LOT of light in this unit: the 2 Mars 300's and 10 - 23W CFLs. There are two fans for circulation, one from the side and one from the top.

I washed out the catch bins under the hempy pots and cleaned up the fallen leaves from the plants and the shelf.

Tomorrow, they are going to get a good water spray-down to wash off the neem and soap. Don't worry about root rot; between the heat from the lights and the lower humidity in the house, they will dry out very quickly. And I won't pull down the tarps until they ARE dry. This has worked well for me, when the plants were too big to haul to the shower.

Having put 2 hours this morning and an hour and a half tonight on the Ladies, I feel like I have accomplished something; I've done a good day's work cleaning up the units and the ladies. They were overdue.

I am glad I have more hempys than bins full of soil. It was a lot easier to move pots around.

EDIT: Oh, and I drilled hempy holes in the new trash buckets. :-) I'm committed, NOW!
 
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