AKGramma's Perpetual Grow

[Tead]

I don't usually jump into gun discussions... but I'll toss some simple thoughts in the ring.
First, and very foremost, on average, every single day in our community 3 guns are reported stolen. Who steals those weapons? Criminals. Who supplied them... we did.
Guns play out very differently in dense urban environments.
When a philosophical Tead surveys the world around him, he sees weapons of death raining from the skies upon the population that live around him. This, of course, worries Tead because he likes to get to know those around him... and doesn't believe many of them would be responsible gun owners. But of course, the logic folks use for ownership is somewhat compelling as well... if all the idiots around me are armed, wouldn't it be a good idea to arm oneself as well?
Whatever the best answer to these questions is, Tead chooses to buck the trend and not add a weapon of death into the gumbo... I just don't like the flavor that develops.

hmmmm... I don't ever enter the gun conversations. Curious.

 

[AKgramma]

The verdict is in! My BBL s a GOOD SMOKE! My relatives BEGGED me for some of my last harvest, even tho it has only been jarred for a week. I warned them that it might be harsh, but they insisted anyway. I was told it was smooth, relaxing, very sweet.

I did something right! I very much doubt that this jar will last the 4 weeks minimum cure. I don't expect the next harvest for another 6 weeks.

My very sativa-looking girl in flower was so tight with leaves and mini-branches, with flowers hiding under the fan leaves in tight clumps (thank the LEDs!) That I had to remove the fan leaves to let the light in.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the BBL in the far corner is male, because it has stretched and has turned red. I thought I saw some suspicious buds to either side of the crotches, not snuggled down in the crotches, like flowers do. This will explain why I never liked how BBL#1 was growing, and couldn't get viable clones from it. It's just a gangly, heavy-stemmed ugly plant. Sitting next to the female, they don't even look like the same strain. I'll know in a week, then will pull it and its bin, which is taking up far too much room. It's clone-mate will also be pulled, and I won't waste any more time on it.

So.. out of 10 seeds, I got ONE healthy lady, whom I just harvested last week, and a lot of clones from her. And the frilly lady in flower, with a totally different phenotype. In a way, that is a relief, because now I know what to expect from the 3 batches of clones: the OGK, BBL #4, and BBL #5.

I took some more clones because I needed to top two plants in hempy Most of the tiny clones I took a week or two ago got 1/16" root nubs, then withered away. So these clones are much bigger, and I just may put a few in Perlite-Vermiculate to root and dome them over.

All in all, I am happy with this grow, thanks to all the new ideas you all have given me. Definitely the LEDs, more lights overall, and regular feedings made a HUGE difference in the product. I won't get any harvest from the hempys for at least 10 weeks, unless they respond well to the new medium and water/feeding schedule, and take off for the moon.

 

[TorturedSoul]

[Long, well thought-out (lol) post on firearms edited away out of respect for AKgramma, this forum, 420 (its owner), and the forum guidelines.]

The verdict is in! My BBL s a GOOD SMOKE!

Congratulations!

My relatives BEGGED me for some of my last harvest, even tho it has only been jarred for a week.

I have decided that when one is growing for others, and one is giving away the harvest... That it might be a good idea to report things as being one complete (grow and flower) cycle behind what it actually is, lol. In other words, in a perfect world, the cannabis that they begged you to go ahead and release to them... would not have been from your most previous harvest - it would have been from the one before that.

Unfortunately, reality is... reality . I'll be in the same boat you are when I get to the harvesting stage. In fact, I might even end up offering to give those (who are capable of doing so) some instructions on drying & curing and then just let them do it. Who knows, lol?

My very sativa-looking girl in flower was so tight with leaves and mini-branches, with flowers hiding under the fan leaves in tight clumps (thank the LEDs!) That I had to remove the fan leaves to let the light in.

Shame you could not have simply moved the leaves instead of removing them. That doggone reality again, lol.

I wish I had the time/money/space/etc. to set up a grow in such a way that I had several clones setup so that I could do some pretty harsh defoliation on one a couple of times (the way that some growers do by choice), only limited defoliation on another, the barest minimum I could get by with and still "uncover" all the flower sites on a third, remove no (healthy) leaves on a forth and, instead, move them out of the way (using something to keep them out of the way), and to do neither on a fifth, just some mild "opening/training" to allow light to reach as much of the plant as I can in a general sense. Just to see what the yields of each ended up being, how each plant ranked in regards to the others, et cetera. Oh well, maybe someone else will read this one day and think, "Hey, I can do that!" - and then post results for all of us to read.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the BBL in the far corner is male, because it has stretched

I have seen a lot of "tall, gangly teenagers" end up being males - but I have seen a few of them end up being females. And one of those was produced the second- or third-best bud I have ever grown.

I thought I saw some suspicious buds to either side of the crotches, not snuggled down in the crotches, like flowers do.

The difference in the flower structure is much more worrying. Maybe it's a "him."

and couldn't get viable clones from it.

...or just some kind of non-viable (so to speak) mutant with undesirable characteristics? IDK.

I'll know in a week

Hopefully, you will be sure before you see opened yellow flowers.

So.. out of 10 seeds, I got ONE healthy lady

Hey, one good "keeper" seed is all you need.

and a lot of clones from her.

Exactly.

IDK if you have ever grown, consumed product from, or read about Neville's Haze. But I went through lots of seeds (lots of seed packs, actually) before I found that perfect sativa keeper (for ME). Someone else might have stopped after the first package of seeds. Or second, or third, or... Because there were many decent plants. But it was a point in my life when I had the space, the light and, well, the money. I'd grow a couple, run a couple clones from each all the way through, compare with the last pair, toss the two that weren't the best (again, for me), rinse/lather/repeat. It was kind of fun, because I had bud to smoke, and did not have to rely on memory to decide whether #3 was better or worse (I guess I should be typing "more suitable?") than, say, #11. If it was still around when it came time to compare #11, lol, it would have already been determined to be better than the other ones that came (and went) before.

I wish I still had the genetics of the one I ended up keeping. Or any of them. For that matter... I just wish I had all the notes that I made through the years. There was a time when someone could ask about a nutrient brand (that I had used previously) and I could rattle off tips and suggestions for 15 minutes. Now, OtOH, I CRS. And I mean that almost literally - the other night, I was feeling kind of nauseous and it took me a few minutes to decide whether I was getting sick or if I had just forgotten to eat anything that day (the latter). IDK. Life... It'll kill ya.

And the frilly lady in flower, with a totally different phenotype.

Awesome! This means you have more than one choice to offer (or, alternatively, to decide which you would rather grow). Unfortunately, sometimes (often) a plant's yield does not fully shine... until after a good, long cure. You might think, "A is better than B," (based on whatever criteria you use to judge) and then, after curing, decide that not only have they both improved, B has improved so much that it is better than A. It doesn't often happen, I suppose, but it can.

I took some more clones because I needed to top two plants in hempy Most of the tiny clones I took a week or two ago got 1/16" root nubs, then withered away.

I decided to wait, after all, on germinating the next batch of seeds. But then I changed my mind again and started three to soak. I figured if nothing else I'd go hide them in the woods for a couple of weeks and deal with pests when I retrieved them (if the crows/etc. didn't eat the babies). I checked on them earlier, two have cracked but I don't really see any root growth at all (I can see white where the crack is, but that's it) and the other has a tiny little rootlet that kind of looks like it just spiraled in on itself and stopped. I don't know if I allowed them to get too hot (possible - I used my oven for a germinating chamber again) or if there was something wrong with the water. I was at Mom's house and asked her if she had a gallon jug with a lid I could use for "plant water" (didn't mention what type of plant ), and she told me to grab a couple of full jugs that she had all ready to water her houseplant/garden younglings with. So, instead of knowing that the water was good (and dechlorinated - I have been a little stuffed up and couldn't smell)... I just assumed. I'm going to give them a day or two more, then I guess I'll try again with different seeds. I hope they end up being fine, because I have a limited number and do not expect to get any more (probably for years). Plus, I used my only Vanilla Kush because some of the reports I read on that strain were favorable and I have been asked to provide buds that are mostly indica to a couple of people. I was going to try to grow clones of it in several two-liter bottles, maybe one in each corner and one in between each of those around the perimeter, growing "lollipopped" so they did not take up much room.

So these clones are much bigger, and I just may put a few in Perlite-Vermiculate to root and dome them over.

Go, clones, go! I am not a fan of humidity domes for clones. I would rather keep just enough moisture at the stem to "encourage" the cutting to produce roots faster. But it all depends on your temperature, humidity, (to some degree) strain, other factors, and personal choice.

All in all, I am happy with this grow

Definitely the LEDs, more lights overall, and regular feedings made a HUGE difference in the product.

And your LEDs were only in use for a small part of their life cycle. This grow should produce a better harvest. The one after that, after you have things more dialed-in, even better. Here's hopin', lol.

 

[AKgramma]

TS: There was no place to move the fan leaves TO! The petioles were very short, and the dominant branches are masses of closely-packed leaves in closely packed nodes. IN fact, you can hardly tell that I defoliated, except now all the flowers are exposed. They look like monster COLAs, only made up of leaves, rather than buds. I hope the buds follow suit. This is the lady from a month ago. She's much bigger and fuller now. It's the LEDs.

My first BBL harvest WAS a tall, lanky lady, who looked more male than female. And, like you said, she is giving a good smoke.
As a reminder, here she was just before harvest.

But she didn't have the thick red stems this fellow lurking the the corner has. And she showed terminal flowers right off. Not so this one. The only things growing on the terminal branches are lots of leaves. I'm going to visit the grow room soon, to check the suspicious bud.

 

[AKgramma]

This is frilly lady now, having been lightly divested of her largest fan leaves.

This picture didn't capture all the flowers hiding in the foliage. I lowered her to encourage stretching and turned off a few of the supplemental lighting. I think she will benefit from having some space between her nodes.

As expected, BBL#1, to the left and behind Frilly Lady, was male, as there were suspicious structures on several of its (his) branches. So I terminated him and his clone, leaving me more room to move plants around. I now have the room to put another plant in flower.

EDIT: Frilly Lady in flower and one grown-up clone in veg are the only two plants I have left in soil. All the others are in hempy bins.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I lowered her to encourage stretching and turned off a few of the supplemental lighting. I think she will benefit from having some space between her nodes.

Are you referring to the CFLs? If so, try replacing any 6,500K ones with 2,700K. The higher- (color) temperature lights tend to promote shorter, more compact growth, while the lower-temperature ones should produce more "stretch." And, by swapping instead of simply removing, you are not reducing the total amount of light.

BtW, I think I figured out why I had unexpected/poor behavior from the seeds I have been trying to germinate - I was doing so in my oven (as per normal), as it is a few degrees above ambient. Well... I stuck four Solo cups of water in there as a place to allow the water to dechlorinate without worry of me spilling them or the cats drinking them. I pulled them out just a little while ago to pour the water into a couple of bottles - and it was hot! Well, on the upper end of warm at least - you couldn't use it to brew tea, but it was definitely warm enough for washing with. Oops. <SIGH>. I have more of the Jack Herer, and a few more of the Kali Mist; that was my only Vanilla Kush seed.

 

[AKgramma]

Haven't had a chance to post lately, as we're doing outdoor chores, while the weather holds, and I have the help. I peeked in on the ladies this morning, to see if anyone needed water. No wilting yet, so I'll tend to them this evening. It feeding day and I don't want to forget that.

EDIT: TS: Exchanging the lights didn't make any difference in how hot the room or the trailer gets, but I did take your advice about going to soft white auxiliary lighting in the flower unit. We've had a break in the hot weather, so everyone is happy now.

 

[SweetSue]

Are you referring to the CFLs? If so, try replacing any 6,500K ones with 2,700K. The higher- (color) temperature lights tend to promote shorter, more compact growth, while the lower-temperature ones should produce more "stretch." And, by swapping instead of simply removing, you are not reducing the total amount of light.

BtW, I think I figured out why I had unexpected/poor behavior from the seeds I have been trying to germinate - I was doing so in my oven (as per normal), as it is a few degrees above ambient. Well... I stuck four Solo cups of water in there as a place to allow the water to dechlorinate without worry of me spilling them or the cats drinking them. I pulled them out just a little while ago to pour the water into a couple of bottles - and it was hot! Well, on the upper end of warm at least - you couldn't use it to brew tea, but it was definitely warm enough for washing with. Oops. <SIGH>. I have more of the Jack Herer, and a few more of the Kali Mist; that was my only Vanilla Kush seed.

Ouch!!! I hurt for you there TS. Are you short of seeds or just short of preferred seeds?

 

[TorturedSoul]

Ouch!!! I hurt for you there TS.

I wouldn't... We, each of us, hurt plenty as it is. Especially as the years continue to accrue (but just think of the alternative ).

Are you short of seeds or just short of preferred seeds?

Neither, really, at this point. I am not completely out - but both of the "main" strains that I am wanting to grow have multiple phenotypes (IIRC, three for one and four for the other), and my wasting half a dozen seeds would have to significantly lower my odds in finding exactly what I am looking for, I suppose.

I have a few left. Lost the Vanilla Kush - which was the Barney's Farm strain that I was probably most interested in out of all the BF freebies - but, well... you'll have that. If I wish to look around for someone to blame, I'll have to do so in a room that has a mirror in it, lol.

Someone used to say, "If that's the worst thing that ever happens to you, you must be pretty lucky." True... But even grains of sand can bury a person - if there are enough of them....

 

[Weaselcracker]

Here is a picture of a DIY plain-water cloning device.

Thanks for this idea Ak. Usually when people try to clone in water I see the rooting taking a long time, with so-so/poor results. One guy said that the clones he got through this method were less healthy than with other methods. Seemed like it worked well for you though so I made one for myself. I decided to toss a fishtank bubbler in mine yesterday because it was right there close by and I didn't think it would hurt. I certainly could use some clones these days so I hope it works out.

 

[AKgramma]

Thanks for this idea Ak. Usually when people try to clone in water I see the rooting taking a long time, with so-so/poor results. One guy said that the clones he got through this method were less healthy than with other methods. Seemed like it worked well for you though so I made one for myself. I decided to toss a fishtank bubbler in mine yesterday because it was right there close by and I didn't think it would hurt. I certainly could use some clones these days so I hope it works out.

I think that's a good idea. It's not working well for me, I'm afraid. I even put in some used perlite to trick them into thinking they were in something besides water. But it looks like I'm losing the second batch. The first batch failed for a couple reasons: they were too small, and I had them in the same windowsill as the exhaust fan. The second batch were decent sized cuttings, and I put them in the veg unit. They survived for a couple weeks, but this morning half of them were dried up, even tho there is water in the bowl and the ends are long enough to reach water. And I did spray them when I remembered, but not on a daily basis.

My location is just too dry, I think, to generate clones without a moisture dome. I'm going back to my dome, but I'm going to try a mixture of perlite, Vermiculite, and a bit of my ordinary soil mix (BG+sand+vermiculite)

I think those of you in more humid climates will have better luck with the water and styro method. Maybe add some rootone in the water?

 

[TorturedSoul]

I think that's a good idea.

It is. It isn't possible to have too much dissolved oxygen in a hydroponic environment (which, by definition, is what a bowl of water that plants are setting in is). Well... at least under most real-world conditions that a grower will experience, it isn't possible, lol.

It's not working well for me, I'm afraid.

Hmm...

I even put in some used perlite to trick them into thinking they were in something besides water.

I've rooted clones by sticking them into cups of perlite (that had one or two small drainage holes), and then watering them. But if you mean you just placed a little bit of perlite into your bowl of water... I don't see where that would make a difference one way or the other (assuming you cleaned it first, since you mentioned that it had been previously used).

How did you separate them from the mother plant? Scissors - even sharp ones - will pinch the wound site, which is a bad thing. However, it is okay to do so if you are going to cut a new end with a sharp, clean razor blade when you place them into whatever you are trying to root them in. Speaking of cuts, making them at a steep angle so that you end up with more surface area at the cut is helpful. So is gently shaving away the outermost (only) layer of "bark" from the site up ¼" to ½". Are either of these things absolutely necessary when everything else is perfect? No. Do they help both in terms of success rates and speed of rooting when conditions are not perfect? Yes.

Feeding the mother plant a few hours before taking the cuttings is also helpful. It helps ensure that the cuttings have a reserve of stored nutrients to use whilst developing roots. Some people will allow the mother to start to wilt before feeding, to increase the likelihood that sufficient nutrients are transported all through the plant.

they were too small

It really only takes a very small portion of a plant to become, well, another plant, lol. So that alone would not prohibit success.

and I had them in the same windowsill as the exhaust fan. The second batch were decent sized cuttings, and I put them in the veg unit.

Both environments seem to be less than optimum for rooting cuttings.

this morning half of them were dried up

The bare stem end can "wick" up moisture, but its ability to do so is far less than a root system's. Too low humidity, too much air movement, too much light, too much heat - it is acceptable (and, I would think, healthy) for the cuttings' leaves to transpire a tiny amount of water, but any more than that and they will lose faster than they can gain.

If you want to show that the stems have the ability to uptake moisture, lol, take a few cuttings and toss them into the refrigerator for an hour or so until they wilt. Then stick them into cups of moist perlite (you'll have to pre-poke the hole, and gently pack it back after making sure that you've got the stem at the bottom of the hole you made) after cutting new ends. Place them somewhere out of the way, low air movement and not too much light - if you have a medicine cabinet that is wall-hung (as opposed to built-in) so that there is a flat top, and there is some kind of light fixture directly above it with CFLs in it, that ought to work. After several hours, the cuttings should be standing up again.

even tho there is water in the bowl and the ends are long enough to reach water.

You can always try cutting new ends. Not on the crunchies, obviously, but on ones that don't seem to be doing anything after you have waited a sufficient time (or on ones that appear to have closed off, regardless of whether it has been very long or not).

And I did spray them when I remembered, but not on a daily basis.

<SHRUGS> I think I sprayed a clone... once.

My location is just too dry, I think, to generate clones without a moisture dome.

You might have a point there. If your relative humidity is only like 15%-20%, you might benefit from using a humidity dome for a couple of days. Especially if your cuttings have large amounts of leafy growth on them.

I'm going back to my dome, but I'm going to try a mixture of perlite, Vermiculite, and a bit of my ordinary soil mix (BG+sand+vermiculite)

Try just the perlite with enough vermiculite to allow the mix to hold some water. I'm not sure what BG is in this context, but the sand and (more) vermiculite would just be needlessly duplicating what the perlite and vermiculite already bring to the party.

Maybe add some rootone in the water?

Wow, there's something that I haven't thought about in years. I used to use it when I was rooting cuttings in a very humid environment, because it has some kind of fungicide in it. Which might be a good idea if you're going to use a humidity dome, lol. I pretty much stopped using it when I found Olivia's Cloning Gel. I like it better - and not just because they sent me a bottle of that along with a bottle of Olivia's Cloning Solution (very weak nutrient) when I emailed them and politely requested samples, either . I figured a gel would be more likely to stay on the end of the cutting. But... IDK?

If everything else fails, just do some air-layering, lol - healthy clones are pretty much a given when one waits for them to root before cutting them off of the mother plant.

 

[SweetSue]

I really like the idea of air rooting. Someday I'm going to try this.

TS, that was like a mini tutorial on cloning.

 

[AKgramma]

Sue: When you try air cloning, show me what you do. I have never been successful with the technique, even with shrubs and trees.

 

[SweetSue]

Sue: When you try air cloning, show me what you do. I have never been successful with the technique, even with shrubs and trees.

Somewhere in the archives is a thread where a cultivator pulled it off beautifully. I'll see if I have it in my notes somewhere. Graytail may remember it. I believe he was the one who pointed me in that direction.

Right now I'm running autos to get stores built up. I won't be cloning until I can run photos.

 

[AKgramma]

Everyone was ready for their feeding today. Even Frilly Lady, who is in soil, was drooping a bit.

I'm already planning ahead on this perpetual grow of mine. If I can't get the cloning right this time, I WILL run out of BBLs and will have to order seeds again. But this time, I'm going to up my odds by getting feminized BBLs. Might even try autos to see if they are less trouble.

Going to try a seed bank that accepts PayPal, cause I don't want to have to authorize a purchase on my CC like I did last time. I'd like a bit more privacy about my transaction.

I like the perlite-vermiculite combo in the hempy pots. They don't dry out as fast as plain perlite. But I DO know, if I use any soil in the future, it's going to be mostly perlite-vermiculite with a small amount of Black Gold potting soil. I have enough soil mix to last me the rest of my life! LOL!

 

[TorturedSoul]

I have never been successful with the technique, even with shrubs and trees.

Are you cutting too deeply when you make your circular cuts around the stem and your vertical one joining the two so that you can peel? Remember that it should only be through the cambium layer. What are you using for your medium? People have used sphagnum moss, peat moss, and coconut coir with success. It is important to keep that medium moist (but not soggy!). If you use sphagnum moss, soak it for several hours to ensure that it is thoroughly moist, then take a handful and squeeze out the surplus moisture. You can tie it in place with string if you need help keeping it in position while you are setting this procedure up. Wrap it with a piece of polyethylene film that is of adequate size to completely cover the moss and with excess overlap - you'll need to secure a tight seal where the ends of the sheet line up (I have seen a "butchers' fold" mentioned - think of how you would seal meat that is being cooked so that steam/juices cannot escape). Snug the film at the top and make sure that none of the moss (or coir) is sticking out (which could allow moisture to escape or excess moisture to enter), and then use something like electrical tape to tape/seal it around the stem. Then do the same thing at the bottom. And then basically ignore it until you see roots visible all around, then cut off the stem just below the ball of moss/roots. Carefully remove the tape/film and... plant your rooted clone (along with the moss/coir). Obviously, you won't have a great deal of roots, so - depending on the size of your new plant - you might have to take care that it has enough water for the first week or so after planting. It is best to use a "mature" stem (say, the diameter of a pencil or larger), so you might have substantially more greenery than the typical newly-rooted cannabis clone - but you won't really have much more in the way of a root system. So you might see some wilting and end up using something in the way of a humidity dome, a clear bag, et cetera to keep it from losing moisture at too high of a rate for the roots to replenish. Use your own judgment on that one (I generally try very hard not to create an artificially-humid environment, but as mentioned in a previous post, that really depends on your ambient environmental conditions).

There is another method, but it is not often used on woody-stemmed plants. The only difference is, instead of making the three initial cuts and peeling, you make a 1½"-2" angled upward cut, almost to the center of the stem and then place something (small piece of wood, toothpick, et cetera) up in the cut in a horizontal orientation (perpendicular to the stem) to hold the wound open and keep it from healing.

Dusting the wound site (whichever of the above methods you use) can be helpful, although it is neither required nor does it guarantee success.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot... As many who have grown cannabis outdoors have learned, lol, there is a third method. People who have grown large, spreading plants have occasionally returned to find that one of the branches that was touching the ground along part of its length... has grown roots . This seems to be more likely if that portion of the branch becomes covered over with soil or compost somehow. So I suppose you could always try training a stem/branch downward until you can place it across another pot, then cover it over with soil and water it occasionally (don't want it to rot). It could end up rooting. IIRC, tomato plants can also end up doing this.

 

[AKgramma]

TS: I like the last two the best, and the last method DOES work, if you have a gangly stem or one down low. You can put a smaller pot in the mother's pot and pin the branch down to the level of the smaller pot, if it won't bend all the way down. Older plants tend to get fragile.

I'm going to have to use method 3 on Frilly Lady. She's in flower, and I'd like to leave her in one piece until the branch forms roots.

 

[Tead]

I'm constantly shocked at how touchy cloning can be. I have to clone various ways based on time of year. In the cooler months, rockwool or peatmoss pucks work much better, but when the heat is on pure perlite seems to be the winner.

 

[AKgramma]

I'm constantly shocked at how touchy cloning can be. I have to clone various ways based on time of year. In the cooler months, rockwool or peatmoss pucks work much better, but when the heat is on pure perlite seems to be the winner.

Agreed! Now if I can figure out which method works during which season, I just might be able to raise clones when < I > want to.

My next effort is going to be a very light soil, mostly the hempy mix with a tad of soil added (like a couple TBs) for the root powder and something for the mycos to hang out in while they're waiting for the roots to show.

Yeah, I know it sounds crazy, but I'm strongly inclined to try a combination of media and methods. The "pure" methods don't seem to work as well for me. Maybe it's a frame of mind, and reluctance to abandoned Old Ways entirely.