AK47 Serious Seeds - First Grow - CFL - Soil

[Greenhouse250]

Hey geturgrowon

I know, they are fattening up so much faster than I expected,

I'm really curious as to what sort of yield each cola will produce in the end, there are about 25 - 30 of them together in the box.

I was assuming that they would probably yield an average of maybe about 7g each considering their size but that would mean the yield would be over 7oz altogether from my little box which I don't think is too possible ha ha it seems like way too much

Do you or anybody else reading this want to take an early guestimate at the average weight per top ? It would be interesting to see what people have to say from experience or otherwise
Thanks for the complements

I'll give you my take 5-7.5 oz dry, I could be way off but five plants should get at lest one oz per plant.

 

[geturgrowon]

Hey geturgrowon

I know, they are fattening up so much faster than I expected,

I'm really curious as to what sort of yield each cola will produce in the end, there are about 25 - 30 of them together in the box.

I was assuming that they would probably yield an average of maybe about 7g each considering their size but that would mean the yield would be over 7oz altogether from my little box which I don't think is too possible ha ha it seems like way too much

Do you or anybody else reading this want to take an early guestimate at the average weight per top ? It would be interesting to see what people have to say from experience or otherwise
Thanks for the complements

i think its to close to guess what your could yeild but i hope for the best man for you !

 

[GreeenFingers]

Looking good bro. I think you see things the way I do. If your going to do something, might as well do it right! I was reading about your lighting, and was wondering if you could tell me the color temp on the Kelvin scale of your HPS. I am using the Hortilux super HPS enhanced spectrum. Found them on amazon for 80 a pop for the 600W. I think they are around 4000K. Also what kind of wavelength are you looking for for the UVB light? 300? Keep it up, may the sensi god be with you.

Hey williejr great to see you joining in

The colour temperature of the HPS is 2000 K so it would be a very far red light and it puts out 33,000 lumens

I chose that bulb after reading a very good article from a grower based on HPS brand comparison, He was using 3 flowering boxes with the same number of plants in each and all from clone same nutes and everything, the only difference was that in each box he had a different brand of bulb.

One was the Osram Nav-T Super (the one I got) , the other was a Philips Son-t and I can't remember the third lets just call it ( ? ) Anyway the yields he pulled from each box went in or around something like this;

1. Osram Nav-T Super ( 21-22 oz )
2. Philips Son-T ( 17-18 oz )
3. ( ? ) ( 15 oz or something like that ha ha )

I had no choice but to get the Brand that yielded him the most

With UVB you are looking for between 280 - 315 nm , its at a pretty thin band.

 

[GreeenFingers]

I'll give you my take 5-7.5 oz dry, I could be way off but five plants should get at lest one oz per plant.

There are actually only 3 plants in the box ha ha but between them there are about 25 - 30 colas

 

[williejr]

Hey williejr great to see you joining in

The colour temperature of the HPS is 2000 K so it would be a very far red light and it puts out 33,000 lumens

I chose that bulb after reading a very good article from a grower based on HPS brand comparison, He was using 3 flowering boxes with the same number of plants in each and all from clone same nutes and everything, the only difference was that in each box he had a different brand of bulb.

One was the Osram Nav-T Super (the one I got) , the other was a Philips Son-t and I can't remember the third lets just call it ( ? ) Anyway the yields he pulled from each box went in or around something like this;

1. Osram Nav-T Super ( 21-22 oz )
2. Philips Son-T ( 17-18 oz )
3. ( ? ) ( 15 oz or something like that ha ha )

I had no choice but to get the Brand that yielded him the most

With UVB you are looking for between 280 - 315 nm , its at a pretty thin band.

Good deal man. Sounds like a nice lamp. I am going to put a UVB in my room soon. IMHO there it is hard to find any clear, concise info on the use of UVB lighting. Before I started this new chapter I bought a book. It is 21 chapters of goodness, with great sources, top breeders and growers. Talking about UVB he recommends a tanning bed light in the range of 280-310 WL. He also noted that it should be used in the last week and a half of flowering. UVB is a harsh and proverbially damages the trichs. In response the plant produces more to protect itself. I'm going to read the info over again, and find out if there is a certain # of hours to turn it on each day.

P.S. I'm sure as you have found that there is a lot of myths and contradictory information on growing, Such as putting the plants in darkness the last two. You can do this if you want hermed, deformed buds. I enjoy bouncing my ideas of you. It does take time and intelligence to figure all this shit out. Good day my friend.

 

[Jfault20]

That is actually very sound reasoning

The main thing I had thought was that spectrum colour does not decide weather a plant flowers as the spectrum of light varies extremely around the globe, it is purely based on the hours in a day. I was thinking that in the wild a plant gets a mix of spectrum's throughout the day and on different levels per day based on clouds, rain etc. so I did not think that switching it would cause any sort of problem but I can understand your concern for hermaphroditism with sudden switches back and forth.
Hmmmm you have changed my mind I am going to take your point into consideration and change my plan but I have an incredible desire to get blue and UV light onto those plants for flower as it is guaranteed to increase potency and resin production.

I think I might use the HPS right up until the last 1-2 weeks for mass building and then for the last 1-2 weeks I will Supplement the plants with a little MH as there should be no more concerns that late into flower

The UVB bulb is going to be added next week, as it is only a small CFL it should be easy to fit in the box and move around every day to make sure all the tops are getting a nice blast of UVB

Thanks for your help LighTer

Sorry newbie question: So the switching or adding of different spectrum lights can increase potency and resin production? When would be a good time to change the light and or are you adding a light on top of the lights that I already there?

 

[GreeenFingers]

Good deal man. Sounds like a nice lamp. I am going to put a UVB in my room soon. IMHO there it is hard to find any clear, concise info on the use of UVB lighting. Before I started this new chapter I bought a book. It is 21 chapters of goodness, with great sources, top breeders and growers. Talking about UVB he recommends a tanning bed light in the range of 280-310 WL. He also noted that it should be used in the last week and a half of flowering. UVB is a harsh and proverbially damages the trichs. In response the plant produces more to protect itself. I'm going to read the info over again, and find out if there is a certain # of hours to turn it on each day.

P.S. I'm sure as you have found that there is a lot of myths and contradictory information on growing, Such as putting the plants in darkness the last two. You can do this if you want hermed, deformed buds. I enjoy bouncing my ideas of you. It does take time and intelligence to figure all this shit out. Good day my friend.

Yeah between 280 - 315 nm is the perfect wave length, if you start reading grow journals in which the grower has used UVB it is always stated that the tops closest to the UVB were the heaviest in resin production, many now will never grow without one.

I have read many people stating to only use it the last week or two or flower but if you think about it, in the wild cannabis gets a consistent exposure to UVB so in my opinion it would be better to start UVB treatment after maybe the 1st 2 weeks of flower starting at possibly only an hour a day and working up from there. The plants would need to build up a tolerance to the UVB over time if it is to utilise it effectively or at least grow up responding to UVB without just getting sunburned. I think just throwing the UVB in for the last week is a bad idea, imagine how sunburned you would get if I just suddenly threw you out in the desert sun without you ever being exposed to it before hand, but you would be much more comfortable and possibly thrive in that environment if you were slowly introduced to it, we know it as acclimatisation

I actually feel very strongly/positively about the effectiveness of 1 - 2 days darkness at the end of flower ( It is way too late in flower for hermaphroditism to even take effect so you would not have to worry about that aspect )

In the 1970s, Dr Carleton Turner at the University of Mississippi found that there was a variation in the amount of THC in a given weed sample, depending upon the time that the plant was taken. The most potent point was just before dawn after nighttime darkness.
Then, in 2000, Dr Paul Mahlberg of Indiana University showed that THC was produced extracellularly, on the inside of the glandular membrane, which would allow for its daily recycling.

So basically THC is broken down by light throughout the day, we know that cannabis preforms most of its growth and development during the dark period using the energy that it has stored from the light period, So throughout the night the plant re-builds the THC that was broken down by the light throughout the day. The THC it is at its highest concentration just before lights come on and at its lowest just before lights go out.

So in theory when the lights are turned off for 24-48 hours or ( 2 -4 times the normal duration of darkness ) the THC will not be degraded by light come the time of harvest and you have given the plant a much longer space of time to go through the process of re-building its THC. The plant would also think that it is about to die at this stage and in a very last attempt to get pollinated, rather than turning hermie it goes into overdrive resin production Many growers report their Plants being much much frostier and swolen after an extended dark period.

You will find a lot of conflicting information but that is the same with almost any topic you can think of ha ha the best thing you can try to do is just absorb as much information and differing opinions from as many sources as you can, take it all in, by keeping an open mind and to never automatically discredit any, you will be able to make your own informed, logical decisions based on what evidence you have in front of you rather than what opinions you have in front of you
Great talking to you

 

[donpaul.p]

the only thing i can add about the uv lighting is to only use it for a short amount of time each day, it is best to only use this during the last coupe of weeks of flower, now what ive been reading says the plants produce more trichomes due to the uv light, now it does this to protect the plant from the sun, but to much and the plant can suffer, im not sure how it would affect the plant if you started using it early, but i have a 4 tube free standing tanning light, it has 4 uvb tubes in it and its used for tanning, now im not sure how this compares to the single uv bulb but im told to only use it for short times through out the day, to much and it can make the plants suffer just like a human would, its like been in the sun all day, then we are told we cant spend several hours under a sun bed, so clearly the uv lights are stronger and this is why we cant sit under a sunbed for long periods of time, yet we can stop out in the sun without much ill affect, so this is the same for the plants, small amounts is fine and will produce dense buds covered in trichs, the plant goes into over drive due to the uv light and it produces more trichs to prevent the plant been damaged by the uv light,

ill try and dig out the info ive got, its in a book somewhere, if i find it ill post exactly what it says as it gives time and stuff like that, if i find it ill post the info here for you to look at, but from what i can tell it will improve the buds but only if used in small doses, im not sure if you can slowly increase the exposure time over a period of days, ill have to find the book and have a read and let you know

 

[GreeenFingers]

Sorry newbie question: So the switching or adding of different spectrum lights can increase potency and resin production? When would be a good time to change the light and or are you adding a light on top of the lights that I already there?

Hey Jfault20

Its not necessarily the switching around of different spectrum's that increases the potency and resin production its more about having a mixed spectrum throughout the grow, you want a ratio of 1 Blue / 2 Red for flower as it is closer to a natural spectrum. Plants in general use blue light for certain regulatory processes and also for photosynthesis. Chlorophyll absorbs both blue and red light and uses the light’s energy to power the complex process in which water and atmospheric carbon dioxide are converted to sugar and oxygen.

I would not necessarily suggest to just switch to Blue at the end of flower as I think the main/only effectiveness that people have switching to Blue the last few days or day before harvest is the fact that they use MH bulbs and they produce some UVB where HPS produce none and that is how I can see the light enhancing the quality or potency of the plant ( considering it was a MH by itself ) I must state that switching solely to a MH at the end of flower will reduce yield as HPS builds floral mass and MH is not great for doing so.

Ideally you would use the 1/2 ratio, say you had a 600w HPS the best thing to do would be to add a 250w MH ( 850w total ) rather than reduce your HPS to a 400w to accommodative a 250w MH and stay at around the same wattage. I would recommend still having as much HPS as possible and that the MH should just be an addition because it is the Red light that really builds flowers but it is very well noted that plants look much healthier under a mixed spectrum

As I said I think the main benefit people are getting Potency wise from using the MH is the fact that it produces some UVB. So what I am now going to do instead of Switching to the MH at the end ( because my cooltube unfortunately blocks UV ha ha ) I will keep the HPS running right the way through and add a UVB bulb

But for my next grow I want to have a 250w HPS and a 250w MH dimmed to 150w ( 400w total ) side by side in 2 cooltubes so I can have a nice mixed spectrum and there will also be an addition of a UVB light so I should have all the good stuff ha ha
I hope that this answered your questions

 

[donpaul.p]

i have been using the 400watt dual spectrum hps for my last couple of grows and i soon found that if i start the plants under the hps then they stretch like crazy, but what i now do is start my plants under cfls for the 1st 2 weeks and this keeps the nodes very close as cfls do keep them stretch to a small amount, then when i place the plants under the hps i dont get any of the stretch, but i tried 12-12 from seed under hps and it stretched like crazy, i tried 12-12 from seed under cfls and i had no stretch at all, in fact i tried everything to get the plants to get taller as they just kept bushing out, so i played around and found that starting the plants under cfls stops them stretching when they go under the hps, now the hps is dual spectrum so this covers more of the blue spectrum that a standard hps done have, but i still dont think its ideal for the veg stage, id say its probably more of a advantage to the flower stage as it contains both the colours of light needed, but for veg ill start under cfls then they finish the veg stage under the hps using glr, i have found glr is the best growing method and the plants grow the fastest and healthiest under the glr lighting schedule

 

[GreeenFingers]

the only thing i can add about the uv lighting is to only use it for a short amount of time each day, it is best to only use this during the last coupe of weeks of flower, now what ive been reading says the plants produce more trichomes due to the uv light, now it does this to protect the plant from the sun, but to much and the plant can suffer, im not sure how it would affect the plant if you started using it early, but i have a 4 tube free standing tanning light, it has 4 uvb tubes in it and its used for tanning, now im not sure how this compares to the single uv bulb but im told to only use it for short times through out the day, to much and it can make the plants suffer just like a human would, its like been in the sun all day, then we are told we cant spend several hours under a sun bed, so clearly the uv lights are stronger and this is why we cant sit under a sunbed for long periods of time, yet we can stop out in the sun without much ill affect, so this is the same for the plants, small amounts is fine and will produce dense buds covered in trichs, the plant goes into over drive due to the uv light and it produces more trichs to prevent the plant been damaged by the uv light,

ill try and dig out the info ive got, its in a book somewhere, if i find it ill post exactly what it says as it gives time and stuff like that, if i find it ill post the info here for you to look at, but from what i can tell it will improve the buds but only if used in small doses, im not sure if you can slowly increase the exposure time over a period of days, ill have to find the book and have a read and let you know

Yeah it really is a pretty dangerous light ha ha its the same spectrum in the sun and sunbeds that causes skin cancer It must not be turned on when you are in your garden ha ha

Have you ever supplemented with UVB before ?
Wow, it would be greatly appreciated if you can post that information

 

[GreeenFingers]

i have been using the 400watt dual spectrum hps for my last couple of grows and i soon found that if i start the plants under the hps then they stretch like crazy, but what i now do is start my plants under cfls for the 1st 2 weeks and this keeps the nodes very close as cfls do keep them stretch to a small amount, then when i place the plants under the hps i dont get any of the stretch, but i tried 12-12 from seed under hps and it stretched like crazy, i tried 12-12 from seed under cfls and i had no stretch at all, in fact i tried everything to get the plants to get taller as they just kept bushing out, so i played around and found that starting the plants under cfls stops them stretching when they go under the hps, now the hps is dual spectrum so this covers more of the blue spectrum that a standard hps done have, but i still dont think its ideal for the veg stage, id say its probably more of a advantage to the flower stage as it contains both the colours of light needed, but for veg ill start under cfls then they finish the veg stage under the hps using glr, i have found glr is the best growing method and the plants grow the fastest and healthiest under the glr lighting schedule

Exactly I used only Blue CFLs for veg and they grew perfectly bushy with really strong tight internodes so I would probably reccomend 100% Blue light during Veg as Red is really only used for flowers.

As soon as I dropped to 12/12 and switched to HPS ( same day ) on my girls they stretched like crazy, way more than I wanted, maybe the added Blue in your mixed spectrum helped prevent stretch after the switch because I threw in a MH and the stretch stopped suddenly

I came to the conclusion from my plants that until there are actual flowers developing, the plants are still utilising Blue light like vegetative growth due to its reduced number of hours of daylight its going to stretch a little regardless but the blue light provides what it needs during this period of time and it does not stretch much ( the only reason a plant stretches is due to lack of light, if you remove the light it needs or is using, it stretches looking for it ) this is why I feel that until it adjusts to 12/12 using Blue and stops ''stretch'' Red light does not need to be used. I think the plants only stretch because they are not getting the light or spectrum they need, when I watched my girls stretching for that HPS like crazy ( it was only kept 2 inches from the tops ) it looked like a classic sign of light deprivation.

Once stretch stops ( which would be minimal using Blue for this period ) and flowers start forming seems to me to be the perfect time to introduce the Red spectrum because that is the only time the plants are going to need it. That seems to me to make sense ha ha

 

[Jfault20]

Hey Jfault20

Its not necessarily the switching around of different spectrum's that increases the potency and resin production its more about having a mixed spectrum throughout the grow, you want a ratio of 1 Blue / 2 Red for flower as it is closer to a natural spectrum. Plants in general use blue light for certain regulatory processes and also for photosynthesis. Chlorophyll absorbs both blue and red light and uses the light's energy to power the complex process in which water and atmospheric carbon dioxide are converted to sugar and oxygen.

I would not necessarily suggest to just switch to Blue at the end of flower as I think the main/only effectiveness that people have switching to Blue the last few days or day before harvest is the fact that they use MH bulbs and they produce some UVB where HPS produce none and that is how I can see the light enhancing the quality or potency of the plant ( considering it was a MH by itself ) I must state that switching solely to a MH at the end of flower will reduce yield as HPS builds floral mass and MH is not great for doing so.

Ideally you would use the 1/2 ratio, say you had a 600w HPS the best thing to do would be to add a 250w MH ( 850w total ) rather than reduce your HPS to a 400w to accommodative a 250w MH and stay at around the same wattage. I would recommend still having as much HPS as possible and that the MH should just be an addition because it is the Red light that really builds flowers but it is very well noted that plants look much healthier under a mixed spectrum

As I said I think the main benefit people are getting Potency wise from using the MH is the fact that it produces some UVB. So what I am now going to do instead of Switching to the MH at the end ( because my cooltube unfortunately blocks UV ha ha ) I will keep the HPS running right the way through and add a UVB bulb

But for my next grow I want to have a 250w HPS and a 250w MH dimmed to 150w ( 400w total ) side by side in 2 cooltubes so I can have a nice mixed spectrum and there will also be an addition of a UVB light so I should have all the good stuff ha ha
I hope that this answered your questions

Good info it brought on more questions but just learned the difference between HPS, MH, & UVB.. I still have yet to start my first grow but making sure I research the exact way I would like to start and finish. My motto is always start with a plan and eventually you'll deviate when needed

 

[williejr]

Yeah between 280 - 315 nm is the perfect wave length, if you start reading grow journals in which the grower has used UVB it is always stated that the tops closest to the UVB were the heaviest in resin production, many now will never grow without one.

I have read many people stating to only use it the last week or two or flower but if you think about it, in the wild cannabis gets a consistent exposure to UVB so in my opinion it would be better to start UVB treatment after maybe the 1st 2 weeks of flower starting at possibly only an hour a day and working up from there. The plants would need to build up a tolerance to the UVB over time if it is to utilise it effectively or at least grow up responding to UVB without just getting sunburned. I think just throwing the UVB in for the last week is a bad idea, imagine how sunburned you would get if I just suddenly threw you out in the desert sun without you ever being exposed to it before hand, but you would be much more comfortable and possibly thrive in that environment if you were slowly introduced to it, we know it as acclimatisation

I actually feel very strongly/positively about the effectiveness of 1 - 2 days darkness at the end of flower ( It is way too late in flower for hermaphroditism to even take effect so you would not have to worry about that aspect )

In the 1970s, Dr Carleton Turner at the University of Mississippi found that there was a variation in the amount of THC in a given weed sample, depending upon the time that the plant was taken. The most potent point was just before dawn after nighttime darkness.
Then, in 2000, Dr Paul Mahlberg of Indiana University showed that THC was produced extracellularly, on the inside of the glandular membrane, which would allow for its daily recycling.

So basically THC is broken down by light throughout the day, we know that cannabis preforms most of its growth and development during the dark period using the energy that it has stored from the light period, So throughout the night the plant re-builds the THC that was broken down by the light throughout the day. The THC it is at its highest concentration just before lights come on and at its lowest just before lights go out.

So in theory when the lights are turned off for 24-48 hours or ( 2 -4 times the normal duration of darkness ) the THC will not be degraded by light come the time of harvest and you have given the plant a much longer space of time to go through the process of re-building its THC. The plant would also think that it is about to die at this stage and in a very last attempt to get pollinated, rather than turning hermie it goes into overdrive resin production Many growers report their Plants being much much frostier and swolen after an extended dark period.

You will find a lot of conflicting information but that is the same with almost any topic you can think of ha ha the best thing you can try to do is just absorb as much information and differing opinions from as many sources as you can, take it all in, by keeping an open mind and to never automatically discredit any, you will be able to make your own informed, logical decisions based on what evidence you have in front of you rather than what opinions you have in front of you
Great talking to you

Damn brother, if you are as articulate in your grow room as you are in your replies on your journal, you are going to have that top shelf smoke. Thanks a lot man.

 

[GreeenFingers]

Good info it brought on more questions but just learned the difference between HPS, MH, & UVB.. I still have yet to start my first grow but making sure I research the exact way I would like to start and finish. My motto is always start with a plan and eventually you'll deviate when needed

Don't be afraid to ask anything if you still have any questions ha ha

Exactly, if you're gonna do it, do it right

Hope to see a journal from you at some stage, everybody will be more than willing to help you out.

 

[Smokemupm8]

Hey williejr great to see you joining in

The colour temperature of the HPS is 2000 K so it would be a very far red light and it puts out 33,000 lumens

I chose that bulb after reading a very good article from a grower based on HPS brand comparison, He was using 3 flowering boxes with the same number of plants in each and all from clone same nutes and everything, the only difference was that in each box he had a different brand of bulb.

One was the Osram Nav-T Super (the one I got) , the other was a Philips Son-t and I can't remember the third lets just call it ( ? ) Anyway the yields he pulled from each box went in or around something like this;

1. Osram Nav-T Super ( 21-22 oz )
2. Philips Son-T ( 17-18 oz )
3. ( ? ) ( 15 oz or something like that ha ha )

I had no choice but to get the Brand that yielded him the most

With UVB you are looking for between 280 - 315 nm , its at a pretty thin band.

I use the Son t gro Phillips 600w hps.. Great globe and im pretty sure my 400w mh is a Sylvania, thats also a great globe IMO.. Cindy loves it LAter guys, Smokem..

 

[GreeenFingers]

UPDATE:

DAY 27 OF FLOWER ( 26 - 36 DAYS REMAINING )

We have a problem that came on fast but the only plant that it affected was Ms. Purple

It began as a slight rusty look on some of her newer leaves and it quickly began to spread, I think I have it under control now though.

I came to the conclusion that when Bio-Heaven was added to the water it brought the PH from an average of 6.6 up to 6.4

This did not seem to me to be a problem because soil can be allowed to go this low, but what seemed to be happening was that the slightly higher PH locked Calcium from the soil and this was what was causing the brown spotting.

The soil has been watered with PH 7.0 and a little Epsom Salts to give her a little Magnesium so this should re-balance the soil to about 6.7 and hopefully she will return to her happy self I have also removed a lot of the badly affected leaves because they were no longer functional and I thought that she could benefit by having her canopy opened to get some light along the sides of the colas considering a lot of the damaged leaves were very new young leaves at the tops of the plant.

The funny thing is that there has not been a single issue with Ms. Sativa and she has been fattening up more than ever, she really is showing impressive growth while Ms. Purple is lagging behind a little bit due to her issues so Ms. Sativa was placed directly under the highest concentration of light to get the most benefit from her.

I do not know weather Ms. Purples pheno is a just a little more sensitive or that it might just prefer a lower PH or that Ms. Sativas pheno might be the genetically superior of the two

There has been a nice increase in resin production also and the girls are beginning to sparkle, there are also a lot of fully formed Trichomes everywhere

I will post some pictures of the tops and whole garden tomorrow as they are sleeping now

But for now you can enjoy some pictures that I took earlier

Below: One of the leaves that was removed from Ms. Purple due to Calcium deficiency/lockout caused by slightly high PH

Below: Ms. Purples Trichomes 100 X Magnification

Below: Ms. Purples Trichomes 100 X Magnification

Hope you all enjoyed this one

 

[LighTer]

I hope the pH issue is resolved. Looking forward to the pictures of the gals tomorrow.

 

[JuicySoil]

Great Journal
-subbed

 

[GreeenFingers]

Thanks JuicySoil

Great to have you along for the ride