AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal - Ebb&Flow - Bubblelicious 2013
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AfricanGrower
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2 green thumbs up.
Both of those plants look very sativa-ish.
It's funny you say that, because the bagseed went from having really fat, stubby leaves just before flowering, to now having thin, skinny fingers. This phenotype is really a strange one eh?
This is a good read:
Growreports Bubble Gum
In a nutshell, it says all the bubble gum strains originated in Indiana, and there were three phenos given to TH seeds, Serious seeds, and one other. All three taking it in a little bit different direction. Serious claims their pheno is mostly sativa. Do you know the history of how nirvana got theirs? No doubt it was from one of these three.
I went back to look at your early pictures and the leaves did seem wider, but still not as wide as my bubble gum from serious.
I'm pretty excited. I went all out, planted all 11 and hope to find a really nice one. The nicest pheno I will keep, and one will be going outdoors guerrilla style in the spring. I still start flowering these in 3 weeks. I need to cut back on the calmag so I can take the PPM of the floragrow up. They are not as green as I would like to see. They are all pretty much the same size except for the 2nd in top row. That one is... well, let's just say, it has "Special needs". It rides the short ganja bus.
Growreports Bubble Gum
In a nutshell, it says all the bubble gum strains originated in Indiana, and there were three phenos given to TH seeds, Serious seeds, and one other. All three taking it in a little bit different direction. Serious claims their pheno is mostly sativa. Do you know the history of how nirvana got theirs? No doubt it was from one of these three.
I went back to look at your early pictures and the leaves did seem wider, but still not as wide as my bubble gum from serious.
I'm pretty excited. I went all out, planted all 11 and hope to find a really nice one. The nicest pheno I will keep, and one will be going outdoors guerrilla style in the spring. I still start flowering these in 3 weeks. I need to cut back on the calmag so I can take the PPM of the floragrow up. They are not as green as I would like to see. They are all pretty much the same size except for the 2nd in top row. That one is... well, let's just say, it has "Special needs". It rides the short ganja bus.
just like in humans the plants will show their true traits after the stretch/puberty
Quote of the month AG...
Can't remember the last movie I watched sober Dres.I'm about 30 minutes in, AG. I have two kitties and a pug cuddled with me on the couch. Only thing that could make it better is some
>>>The only downsides I see with a 50/50 mix of the two are:
1. A heavier pot overall; since you would want to transplant as often as you do in rockwool, going up in pot sizes with 50% of the medium being hydroton, will greatly increase this.
* Yeah, impossible to transplant. I tried starting a small plant in a 6 gallon container of 50/50 hydroton and cubes. I doubled the irrigation times. At harvest, I didn't see any improvement over cubes alone.
* I don't like re-using my media, even if it IS possible. It's easier for me to throw away rockwool, or recycle it in my outdoor gardens.
* I like cult's ideas and I am interested in exploring any media that will allow us to irrigate more X per day. But I also like the benefit of the "root rot resistant" qualities of rockwool.
* I am still a fan of transplanting little by little to build a nice root mass. I transplanted the 11 bubbs in 15 minutes with absolutely no stress to the plant. Roots tend to grow straight to the bottom of the pot and circle.
* Hydroton gives no place for the roots to sink in. The roots simply grow AROUND the clay balls. Moving or transplanting the containers ends up in pinched and broken roots. I do like hydroton for areas where you don't want it too wet (where stalk comes out of growing container in DWC).
1. A heavier pot overall; since you would want to transplant as often as you do in rockwool, going up in pot sizes with 50% of the medium being hydroton, will greatly increase this.
* Yeah, impossible to transplant. I tried starting a small plant in a 6 gallon container of 50/50 hydroton and cubes. I doubled the irrigation times. At harvest, I didn't see any improvement over cubes alone.
* I don't like re-using my media, even if it IS possible. It's easier for me to throw away rockwool, or recycle it in my outdoor gardens.
* I like cult's ideas and I am interested in exploring any media that will allow us to irrigate more X per day. But I also like the benefit of the "root rot resistant" qualities of rockwool.
* I am still a fan of transplanting little by little to build a nice root mass. I transplanted the 11 bubbs in 15 minutes with absolutely no stress to the plant. Roots tend to grow straight to the bottom of the pot and circle.
* Hydroton gives no place for the roots to sink in. The roots simply grow AROUND the clay balls. Moving or transplanting the containers ends up in pinched and broken roots. I do like hydroton for areas where you don't want it too wet (where stalk comes out of growing container in DWC).
stealthgrow
Well-Known Member
Hi AG, Plants are looking very nice man, they seem to be coming along great. 
I'm going tonight to re-calibrate my instruments again also, I was off by just over 100 last time I re-calibrated on Saturday, but didn't have enough calibration fluid to really trust my results. I went to my local hydro shop today and picked up some new calibration fluid and, I'm going to get it done right tonight.
I'm going tonight to re-calibrate my instruments again also, I was off by just over 100 last time I re-calibrated on Saturday, but didn't have enough calibration fluid to really trust my results. I went to my local hydro shop today and picked up some new calibration fluid and, I'm going to get it done right tonight.
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- #528
AfricanGrower
Well-Known Member
Reg and Stealth, nice to see you guys around again. I thought you guys had disappeared off the face of earth! Glad to have you guys back
>>>I'm going tonight to re-calibrate my instruments again also
Even the higher end models need calibration every once in a while. You have a 24/7 Tri-meter, right?
>>> Do you know the history of how nirvana got theirs?
All the info I was able to gather was that it originated in Indiana as well, then was brought back to the Netherlands. So it must have its lineage from one of these breeders. Here's the only info I can find on it, and it's vague as hell:
PPM TEST DAY 2
Okay, so from today's tests I can almost conclude that my PPM has no direct correlation to my rise in pH. I will still preform the test tomorrow, but I am almost certain that the mystery of my pH swings is still not quite clear!
Following protocol, I conducted 3 more readings today after 3x 15minute schedule feedings. I went about the process the EXACT same way as I did yesterday.
Excerpt from notes:
PPM TEST DAY 2
-1st Reading: PPM-844;pH-6.9
-2nd Reading: PPM-840;pH-6.9
-3rd Reading: PPM-840;pH-6.9
After viewing these results, I can say that my PPM has not significantly dropped by a number greater than 50 PPM, but my pH in my res has risen to a high 6.9 by the end of today. I will continue to run these tests for the next two days, and if anything changes significantly I will post the data, but as far as I can see, I think it is safe to assume that the PPM had no direct affect on pH over a span of 24hours.
The next aspects I will be looking out for in the next couple of days are signs of any deficiencies! As you know I had raised my PPM to 1200 last week with very little stress to show for it, but if I can stay at a range of 800-900 without any deficiencies popping up, then I will gladly do so. It will save me the cost of buying more nutrients in the long run!
Speaking of nutrients, I just won an awesome bid on the Flea... 6 gallon used containers of the GH Flora series, with 2 gallons of GH Micro, 2 gallons of GH Grow, and 3 gallons of GH Bloom...and all for $85
I think this is such a great deal as I know the value of 1 gallon refills of each of these nutrients can run well over $100 each! I hope everyone is as excited as I am 
>>>I'm going tonight to re-calibrate my instruments again also
Even the higher end models need calibration every once in a while. You have a 24/7 Tri-meter, right?
>>> Do you know the history of how nirvana got theirs?
All the info I was able to gather was that it originated in Indiana as well, then was brought back to the Netherlands. So it must have its lineage from one of these breeders. Here's the only info I can find on it, and it's vague as hell:
PPM TEST DAY 2
Okay, so from today's tests I can almost conclude that my PPM has no direct correlation to my rise in pH. I will still preform the test tomorrow, but I am almost certain that the mystery of my pH swings is still not quite clear!
Following protocol, I conducted 3 more readings today after 3x 15minute schedule feedings. I went about the process the EXACT same way as I did yesterday.
Excerpt from notes:
PPM TEST DAY 2
-1st Reading: PPM-844;pH-6.9
-2nd Reading: PPM-840;pH-6.9
-3rd Reading: PPM-840;pH-6.9
After viewing these results, I can say that my PPM has not significantly dropped by a number greater than 50 PPM, but my pH in my res has risen to a high 6.9 by the end of today. I will continue to run these tests for the next two days, and if anything changes significantly I will post the data, but as far as I can see, I think it is safe to assume that the PPM had no direct affect on pH over a span of 24hours.
The next aspects I will be looking out for in the next couple of days are signs of any deficiencies! As you know I had raised my PPM to 1200 last week with very little stress to show for it, but if I can stay at a range of 800-900 without any deficiencies popping up, then I will gladly do so. It will save me the cost of buying more nutrients in the long run!
Speaking of nutrients, I just won an awesome bid on the Flea... 6 gallon used containers of the GH Flora series, with 2 gallons of GH Micro, 2 gallons of GH Grow, and 3 gallons of GH Bloom...and all for $85
I think this is such a great deal as I know the value of 1 gallon refills of each of these nutrients can run well over $100 each! I hope everyone is as excited as I am
Thanxx AG...
fuck man, I been looking for that bubblegummer.
Jamaica seeds doesn't have a lot of strains, but they have stable good genetics. they run
lemon kobra, cotton candy (bubblegum) at the most expensive price.
my blackout kush (g13 x og kush) was killer but was a bit cheaper than the bubblebum. tha bubble should be nice, I always wanted to try it.
I also want Jamaican chocolate that would probably be killer bud
they just bred a new one.. garlic express. says its ruderalis x rare garlic skunk? "harvest in 80 days"
Jamaica seeds doesn't have a lot of strains, but they have stable good genetics. they run
lemon kobra, cotton candy (bubblegum) at the most expensive price.
my blackout kush (g13 x og kush) was killer but was a bit cheaper than the bubblebum. tha bubble should be nice, I always wanted to try it.
I also want Jamaican chocolate that would probably be killer bud
they just bred a new one.. garlic express. says its ruderalis x rare garlic skunk? "harvest in 80 days"
So i was thinking. I believe i can match the results u get in rockwool using hydroton in the same time period, without transplanting to bigger pots. I would start in the pot i plan to finish in. Trust me i get the benefits of a healthy root mass, its very important. But u can get great root mass in hydroton too, yes they grow around the pebbles but they condition to this and adapt early on. I like growing in anything really, i see pros and cons of every system i use. DWC suits me best but i still run flood drain, drip irrigation, nft tables and hand water. theres not enough hours in the day to keep on top of things sometimes.
So heres what im thinking, I am working on setting up a new space that will be perfect to show i can do the results u are getting with less work in hydroton. If Capn u would like to do a co-journal we could have a bit of fun. i respect ur techniques and ur views, we all have our preferences and we can argue back and forth all day about what grow technique is best. IMO it boils down to the person doing the grow and the knowledge on how to get the best out of that system that makes great plants. Put the same set up in 10 different peoples hands and they will all have different results. Maybe u will like what u see from the hydroton or maybe i'll end up looking like a fool but either way it would be interesting for the viewers at home
We could be pretty versatile about how we do it, i dont care what nutes are used. I think for me the only stipulations would be:
Same veg time
Same size end pot
Same light set up or as similar as possible
we both use the top feed method
Let me know if it interests u bro, or u AG as u are doing the same as the capn. Sorry for asking this in ur thread AG, i thought it would be relevant as we've kind of started the discussion here.....
AG. I'm digging your PH and PPM measuring. I think it's a good way to get a true feeling of what the plant can handle. Also note... when PPM is high, it takes a week or two, to see any damage (and by that time it is too late). So that is the only reason I mentioned it. When PPM is too high you will notice lower leaf tips curl down after about a week, and then upper leaf tips will dehydrate in another week.
Keep up the hard work, and I'm looking forward to the next pictures. You are almost 1/2 way thru flower. woo hoo!
Keep up the hard work, and I'm looking forward to the next pictures. You are almost 1/2 way thru flower. woo hoo!
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- #533
AfricanGrower
Well-Known Member
DAMMIT! Today has been filled with bad vibes! I just noticed male pollen sacs start to form on the lower half of the bagseed plant! I am glad I caught it today, but I was really looking foward in using the cuttings I took from her for future grows. Damn Bagseed!
But anyway, I have concluded that the formation of these male genetallia was most likely due to stress. I had been removing smaller branches and shoots from the lower section of the bagseed for the past week now, only cutting 2-3 at a time, making sure I spaced the defoliation sessions between a few days.
I HAVE NOT seen any male pollen sacs form on any buds that are above the screen or just below the screen. The branches that started producing these sacs were very weak and fragile, and were the next to be cut down during the next 'defol' session.
I am thinking that the plant noticed the lower branching being removed, and decided to try and procreate in hopes of not completely being killed. I have removed all suspected branches, and will be monitoring to see if this spreads upwards.
If so, I will be forced to destroy this plant as my Bubb harvest is FAR more important than the bagseed at the moment! I might have to bring my pot-smoking roommate into this, maybe in hopes of him keeping it in his room, and removing sacs as they appear to avoid ANY kind of contamination.
But I am still leaning towards just throwing it away. DAMN, I really was looking foward to this resinous strain! Oh well.
Here are some pics:
But anyway, I have concluded that the formation of these male genetallia was most likely due to stress. I had been removing smaller branches and shoots from the lower section of the bagseed for the past week now, only cutting 2-3 at a time, making sure I spaced the defoliation sessions between a few days.
I HAVE NOT seen any male pollen sacs form on any buds that are above the screen or just below the screen. The branches that started producing these sacs were very weak and fragile, and were the next to be cut down during the next 'defol' session.
I am thinking that the plant noticed the lower branching being removed, and decided to try and procreate in hopes of not completely being killed. I have removed all suspected branches, and will be monitoring to see if this spreads upwards.
If so, I will be forced to destroy this plant as my Bubb harvest is FAR more important than the bagseed at the moment! I might have to bring my pot-smoking roommate into this, maybe in hopes of him keeping it in his room, and removing sacs as they appear to avoid ANY kind of contamination.
But I am still leaning towards just throwing it away. DAMN, I really was looking foward to this resinous strain! Oh well.
Here are some pics:
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- #534
AfricanGrower
Well-Known Member
>>>Let me know if it interests u bro, or u AG as u are doing the same as the capn. Sorry for asking this in ur thread AG, i thought it would be relevant as we've kind of started the discussion here.....
Hey Cultivator, it is not a problem, you are more than welcome to post your thoughts here! As for a co-op grow, I doubt I will have the space to do this within the next growing season. I really do plan on having a side by side test of rockwool/cocodan versus mapito during my next run, but after that, if you still are interested in a co-op I am more than happy to join you
>>>When PPM is too high you will notice lower leaf tips curl down after about a week, and then upper leaf tips will dehydrate in another week.
That is what always had thought in my mind. I had been feeding at 1200 PPM for about a week, with no signs of lower foliage dying out on me. But in any case, if I can get away with a lower PPM range than that, I will be more than happy!
I will be posting the final 3 DAY PPM TEST readings I will be taking in this manner within the next hour!
Hey Cultivator, it is not a problem, you are more than welcome to post your thoughts here! As for a co-op grow, I doubt I will have the space to do this within the next growing season. I really do plan on having a side by side test of rockwool/cocodan versus mapito during my next run, but after that, if you still are interested in a co-op I am more than happy to join you
>>>When PPM is too high you will notice lower leaf tips curl down after about a week, and then upper leaf tips will dehydrate in another week.
That is what always had thought in my mind. I had been feeding at 1200 PPM for about a week, with no signs of lower foliage dying out on me. But in any case, if I can get away with a lower PPM range than that, I will be more than happy!
I will be posting the final 3 DAY PPM TEST readings I will be taking in this manner within the next hour!
Cult... two plants side by side... I agree, the one with a more frequent irrigation schedule will win every time. In my articles, I talk about how you can get "near DWC results", but I also make the disclaimer that you will need to veg a little longer. Call it "cheating" if you will. There's no doubt, grow methods with a more frequent irrigation schedule grow faster. However most of these are at the expense of more complicated set ups, and risk of pythium (not being able to keep water cool enough). The rock wool is forgiving when it comes to that.
I also advocate keeping plant counts LOW. For a lot of us, 12 is our limit. Keeping a mother plant isn't always an option, nor do some of us even have the room for it. So, we veg a plant until it's ready to flower, take a clone, then in two months that clone is ready to flower. It is a great schedule. In DWC or AERO, that two months might be too long.
That said, I am always up for something fun like a co-journal you are suggesting. I'll PM you.
I also advocate keeping plant counts LOW. For a lot of us, 12 is our limit. Keeping a mother plant isn't always an option, nor do some of us even have the room for it. So, we veg a plant until it's ready to flower, take a clone, then in two months that clone is ready to flower. It is a great schedule. In DWC or AERO, that two months might be too long.
That said, I am always up for something fun like a co-journal you are suggesting. I'll PM you.
AG, GOOOD CATCH on the balls, and good pictures. That really sucks. I doubt it is from the pruning, but maybe that strain has it in it's genetics. As long as your 12 hours of darkness is solid darkness, I think you're doing everything perfectly.
If you think you can pull off all the balls, go for it. Turn off fans and spray the lower part of the plant with water before you jiggle it or work on it in any way. There is also a product called "dutch master reverse" which is supposed to kill the pollen sacs. I've never used it, but it gets good reviews. It's expensive.
For what it's worth, I was in the same situation a long time ago. I plucked off all the balls I could find, but it still seeded all 4 plants in the closet :-( My closet was more crowded. Maybe you can see better and get them all?
As Jeff Goldblum says, "Life finds a way".
If you think you can pull off all the balls, go for it. Turn off fans and spray the lower part of the plant with water before you jiggle it or work on it in any way. There is also a product called "dutch master reverse" which is supposed to kill the pollen sacs. I've never used it, but it gets good reviews. It's expensive.
For what it's worth, I was in the same situation a long time ago. I plucked off all the balls I could find, but it still seeded all 4 plants in the closet :-( My closet was more crowded. Maybe you can see better and get them all?
As Jeff Goldblum says, "Life finds a way".
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- #538
AfricanGrower
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the laugh Capn, it really did cheer up the mood in the grow tent.
As for every other factor, my grow room is completely dark during it's night cycles. I made sure it corresponded with my nights, just to be sure.
I'm not going to waste the money on any revers products, but I will consider keeping the plant if this does not spread to the main colas. If so, it has a 1 WAY trip to the guillotine
As for every other factor, my grow room is completely dark during it's night cycles. I made sure it corresponded with my nights, just to be sure.
I'm not going to waste the money on any revers products, but I will consider keeping the plant if this does not spread to the main colas. If so, it has a 1 WAY trip to the guillotine
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- #539
AfricanGrower
Well-Known Member
PPM TEST DAY3
Okay so the PPM has fallen by more than 50 PPM. Based on this, I will do one more day of testing to see where the PPM lands. If the overall difference in PPM is more than 100 PPM, then I will reach for a final PPM of 950, instead of the current 850.
Excerpt from notes:
PPM TEST DAY 3
-1st reading: PPM-794; pH-6.8
-2nd reading: PPM-788; pH-6.8
-3rd Reading: PPM-788; pH-6.8
That concludes today's testing. If anyone has any comments or observations, you are more than welcomed to share! Test Day 4 commences tomorrow!
Okay so the PPM has fallen by more than 50 PPM. Based on this, I will do one more day of testing to see where the PPM lands. If the overall difference in PPM is more than 100 PPM, then I will reach for a final PPM of 950, instead of the current 850.
Excerpt from notes:
PPM TEST DAY 3
-1st reading: PPM-794; pH-6.8
-2nd reading: PPM-788; pH-6.8
-3rd Reading: PPM-788; pH-6.8
That concludes today's testing. If anyone has any comments or observations, you are more than welcomed to share! Test Day 4 commences tomorrow!
Dresney
New Member
+reps for those pictures, AG. I think they are some the clearest hermi photos I've seen.