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- #161
ConstantGreen
New Member
Another possibility is I may have defoliated too much. Perhaps the plants were not photosynthesizing optimally.
3rd Grow: Amare Tech 450W LED & UVB, 4x4 Tent
A lot of people are in the same situation. And, with the latter, not only is the grower restricted in the gross lighting wattage that he/she can use - the grower is also limited in the amount of cooling (air-conditioning). In such situations, spending more for a significantly more efficient source of illumination becomes a valid consideration. Unfortunately, many growers who must work with such restrictions... are also budget-limited
.Hmm... If the center is higher than a 1kW HPS, unless the thing is above a certain height (distance to the plant(s)), then it might provide more illumination than even equatorial sativas can use. But if you are not getting enough illumination at the edges of your space, raising might not help (or, possibly, it might? LEDs are different critters and might benefit from having more space for the individual wavelengths to mix, IDK). I'd love to be able to try that thing out in a 3'x5'4" space with a short light mover, lol. But I do not have the budget for such a test. I have a feeling such a setup might blow past your G/W and gross yield amounts (not slighting your - fine - results, just positing that it might help distribute the light better).
If the (admittedly, limited) reading I have done is correct, 45 watts per square foot seems to be at the very high end of the general recommendations for LED lighting (25-45 watts/ft.²), with a range being used because there is a wide range of efficiency among all the different LED products. I am going to assume that this product is pretty efficient, as you did harvest a good amount in terms of the energy used. So maybe the panel would perform quite well in... IDK, a 3'7"x3'7" space? The difference between that and a 4'x4' space doesn't seem like much - but it's over three square feet less.
Alternatively... I wonder if that panel were redesigned ever so slightly so that the COBs/etc. were angled outward just a tiny amount (even a few degrees), if that would significantly improve its performance in the size of space that you used? If it's producing more illumination at the center than the plants can use, such a redesign might (probably would, IMHO) still leave them with sufficient light, and it would send a higher percentage of the overall toward the perimeter of the grow.
Oh, to have an unlimited financial budget, several grow spaces (each) of many different sizes/areas... and my own machine shop, lol. I could dream up 20 or more combinations just changing a little bit here and there without ever significantly changing the gross wattage. I think I just realized why LED manufacturers don't immediately come up with THE best product and why they benefit from grower's testing their product! A great company will have their products evolve over time.
I've been of two minds about defoliating for some time. IDK if it is a significant factor in your specific results - either in a negative OR positive way. However... HID lighting has been used in indoor cannabis grows for, what, 35 years or so? And every once in a while, someone still comes up with a way to improve their grow, lol. And LED grow lights are as different from traditional HIDs as linux is from Microsoft's Windows OS (in some ways, even more so). Some tricks that we've used in the past may not be as helpful - or may even be detrimental - when used with LEDs. And there might be completely new tricks that just haven't been discovered yet. Err... Says the mad-scientist in me
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Big Sparks
Well-Known Member
I personally think you did pretty darn good for a first run with the "Amare" lights. I mean, the numbers you've pulled are nothing to sneeze at. As someone who has been watching this journal develop Im not completely satisfied that the Amare LED's have totally failed just yet. Even with my own experiences with LED lighting, like learning (mostly experimenting) what height the lights should be kept above the canopy, that most strains need more cal/mag under LED, sometimes finish up a lil bit earlier, ect, ect.... I believe that this is still very new technology "overall." But I would love to see much more testing and a few more journal's to really make a concrete decision. Personally this light is still kinda on the expensive side, within reach, but up there, especially compared to say a MarsII, wich many growers on this sight have proven to pull some pretty decent yields with time and time again. I guess bottom line is...I look forward to seeing what you do with this light next! It has potential. We as growers just need to use different configurations, or add more power/ light to unlock the secrets, and the master recipe of bringing a crop to harvest using the Amare LED lights! For now, you are the chosen one Vesai. Much responsibility is on your shoulders. I know you'll make us proud! Plus reps to you for taking a chance, and taking a step into the unknown whilst all the while sharing it with us. Sorry for the babble...just finished a fattie and....well....you know. Just my 2 cents. I'm out....,
Sparks
Sparks
jaymu86
New Member
I've been getting and average of 2-3oz a plant at 9 plants in 4x4 so I feel it was a solid invest
Sent from my HTC Desire Eye using 420
The grams per watt figures that I've seen with Amare Technologies' LED panels so far seem pretty good, especially for new(ish) products that haven't necessarily been used for multiple grows (by the same grower) in order to test variables such as distance to canopy, thickness of canopy / growing style, with / without the lenses in place, et cetera. It's tough to come at a new product - especially a new LED product, where differences in the makeup and wavelengths of the individual components can literally make it a "different animal" (as opposed to, say, HPS, where going from a 400-watt to a 600-watt or a 600-watt to a 1,200-watt is really only a minor change), use it for only one or two times (even if both times were with the same strain), and pull off a decent yield for the wattage. <SHRUGS> But people are managing to do so with this company's products... and one assumes that their harvests will get even better as their knowledge (of the specific technology/product) increases.
It's sort of like trying to have an excellent harvest the first time you try a completely different strain, or when you switch to a new brand of nutrient, IMHO (only with those, there are still generally going to be lots of others' knowledge/experience to reference, while Amare's products are still relatively new to the market (and they have been evolving, so they're not static things that have gone unchanged since day one). I hope to see lots of growers sticking with the company through several successive grows, only changing one - or, at most, a few - variables each time.
I hope to be able to do a few with the SE350+UVB, myself. I do not expect to have world-class results the first time, especially since it will be my first experience growing plants under any LED. It really helps that the panel looks to be a powerhouse when matched to the size of the grow area - I can see evidence of that just by looking at the pictures that Brother Fern posted in his Amare Technologies information/support thread, lol. (And it isn't even their current version of that type of product - the SE450+UVB is even more powerful and with a newer generation of Cree COBs.)
I do not expect to do as well as Versai has done, of course. But I do not expect to be disappointed, either .
It's sort of like trying to have an excellent harvest the first time you try a completely different strain, or when you switch to a new brand of nutrient, IMHO (only with those, there are still generally going to be lots of others' knowledge/experience to reference, while Amare's products are still relatively new to the market (and they have been evolving, so they're not static things that have gone unchanged since day one). I hope to see lots of growers sticking with the company through several successive grows, only changing one - or, at most, a few - variables each time.
I hope to be able to do a few with the SE350+UVB, myself. I do not expect to have world-class results the first time, especially since it will be my first experience growing plants under any LED. It really helps that the panel looks to be a powerhouse when matched to the size of the grow area - I can see evidence of that just by looking at the pictures that Brother Fern posted in his Amare Technologies information/support thread, lol. (And it isn't even their current version of that type of product - the SE450+UVB is even more powerful and with a newer generation of Cree COBs.)
I do not expect to do as well as Versai has done, of course. But I do not expect to be disappointed, either
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jaymu86
New Member
You will do fine i ran the 350 for about 6-7 months and have had the 450 since like last november and it's only getting better as I tighten up in this new grow space. I'm sure you will do fine and do you have anything going nowThe grams per watt figures that I've seen with Amare Technologies' LED panels so far seem pretty good, especially for new(ish) products that haven't necessarily been used for multiple grows (by the same grower) in order to test variables such as distance to canopy, thickness of canopy / growing style, with / without the lenses in place, et cetera. It's tough to come at a new product - especially a new LED product, where differences in the makeup and wavelengths of the individual components can literally make it a "different animal" (as opposed to, say, HPS, where going from a 400-watt to a 600-watt or a 600-watt to a 1,200-watt is really only a minor change), use it for only one or two times (even if both times were with the same strain), and pull off a decent yield for the wattage. <SHRUGS> But people are managing to do so with this company's products... and one assumes that their harvests will get even better as their knowledge (of the specific technology/product) increases.
It's sort of like trying to have an excellent harvest the first time you try a completely different strain, or when you switch to a new brand of nutrient, IMHO (only with those, there are still generally going to be lots of others' knowledge/experience to reference, while Amare's products are still relatively new to the market (and they have been evolving, so they're not static things that have gone unchanged since day one). I hope to see lots of growers sticking with the company through several successive grows, only changing one - or, at most, a few - variables each time.
I hope to be able to do a few with the SE350+UVB, myself. I do not expect to have world-class results the first time, especially since it will be my first experience growing plants under any LED. It really helps that the panel looks to be a powerhouse when matched to the size of the grow area - I can see evidence of that just by looking at the pictures that Brother Fern posted in his Amare Technologies information/support thread, lol. (And it isn't even their current version of that type of product - the SE450+UVB is even more powerful and with a newer generation of Cree COBs.)
I do not expect to do as well as Versai has done, of course. But I do not expect to be disappointed, either
Sent from my HTC Desire Eye using 420
I have a moderate sized pile of various scrap and hope that my friend will remember that he is supposed to come over tomorrow night and help me try to build a (small) grow "room" out of it. He is a little bit better at on-the-spot carpentry than I am (and he has a saw, lol). I am itching to pull this LED panel out of the box, hang it, plug it in, and flip all three of its switches - just long enough to get an impression, so to speak, for now. Then I'll flip all three back off. When my seeds break through the soil, I'll raise the light as far as it will go and flip the switch that controls the individual mono-color LEDs back on. I am hoping that they, alone, will not be too strong for seedling duty as long as I start at maximum distance and am very cautious about (slowly) lowering it. I confess that I am impatient to see the SE350+UVB shine (literally and figuratively)... But I think I can be patient about the grow, itself; getting in such a hurry that I tried using a (very) incorrect light source temporarily and almost immediately destroying all of the seedlings that I had initially sprouted... has tempered my inclination to get ahead of myself. There are a few more things that I'll be trying to gather, but they shouldn't keep me from getting started. I wish (oh, how I wish...) that I could afford to just buy a 3'x3' grow tent. But I cannot even afford the cheapest - and I have had misfortunes in the past with an el cheapo model anyway. If I could get a good one, I'd spend 20 minutes assembling it and GET GOING, lol. Oh well, right? I shall not starve for lack of a plate
. Might be a couple sides made up (partially) of old unwanted interior doors, another of a piece of paneling, and the fourth pieced together out of drywall scraps, LMFAO. We'll figure something out.
Big Sparks
Well-Known Member
Hey Jaymu- yeah I've been following along with your"Amare journal "also. And I will say again..."2-3 zips per plant is nothing to sneeze at!" From what you've just said you are already pulling a little over half a pound to about a pound and three quaurters per (harvest) cycle in a 4x4 tent (area). Sounds like you pretty much already have your shit together with this light and your growing environment. (Pardon my French) I should've said...."you've got your ducks in a row!" Lol! *wink-wink* Either way...I am still looking forward to a few more journal's with this light before I personally decide to pull the trigger, and make a purchase of that size! Good growing to you! I will be in the shadows. As Mr. John Lennon himself has said before..."I'm just sittin here watching the wheels go round and round....." Enjoy the rest of your day Jaymu. Im out....
Sparks
Sparks
Big Sparks
Well-Known Member
@TorturedSoul- good luck to you too sir. *takes a bow* Nice to meet you BTW. I will be looking forward to your journey (journal) as well. Wish you luck with your new grow room. Sending positive energy your way.
Sparks
Sparks
jaymu86
New Member
Yeah I wish I was in-depth like versai and others but I'm low on time now days so I try to at least hit pics once a week but you kno how life can be. Yes once all 9 plants are done it's around 600-723g so it definitely works
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jaymu86
New Member
I can't wait for versai to do his best journal cause I like his style with this light
Sent from my HTC Desire Eye using 420
Sent from my HTC Desire Eye using 420
- Thread starter
- #173
ConstantGreen
New Member
I appreciate all the support, guys.
I've found a couple seeds in the bud now, so there may have been minor hermie / pollination issues again. This darned strain...
Been trying to start some new genetics for the next run. Tried germinating some THC bomb a friend gave me, but the seeds must have been too old. And I'm too nervous to use any of the seeds I got from the last run in case the hermie gene is there.
Was thinking about going with 9 plants in the 4x4, but I only have 6 plants going right now that are clones from this grow. So I may just go with 6 plants, which would be a nice change to larger plants and 1 consistent pheno.
I'll keep working toward that perfectly dense and frosty nug. You know, the ones you get from Cali. Since the light was designed by a Cali grower, I was kind of expecting Cali-quality nugs. While this panel has proven to flower a 4x4 relatively evenly, I'm still skeptical that it could flower 4x4 feet of Cali-quality bud. I just wonder why a Cali grower would market a panel for anything less than top-shelf applications. I do believe Amare has a great spectrum design, but it seems clear that I didn't have enough power to max out the bud's density. My Mars nugs were hands down more dense, even if they lacked in other areas. I know density isn't everything, but it is a big part of that Cali-quality harvest. So it seems to me that the coverage may have been stretched to make the panels more attractive with dramatic wattage per coverage claims. The larger coverage accentuates the efficiency of a higher yield per watt, but the density at least is sacrificed. That's my honest observation.
I don't know what else I could have done different with the light besides hanging it closer to increase the intensity which would close the coverage. But I'm still satisfied with the panel of course so I'm going to focus more on other departments of the grow now so I can make sure these plants aren't hung up on something else.
I've found a couple seeds in the bud now, so there may have been minor hermie / pollination issues again. This darned strain...
Been trying to start some new genetics for the next run. Tried germinating some THC bomb a friend gave me, but the seeds must have been too old. And I'm too nervous to use any of the seeds I got from the last run in case the hermie gene is there.
Was thinking about going with 9 plants in the 4x4, but I only have 6 plants going right now that are clones from this grow. So I may just go with 6 plants, which would be a nice change to larger plants and 1 consistent pheno.
I'll keep working toward that perfectly dense and frosty nug. You know, the ones you get from Cali. Since the light was designed by a Cali grower, I was kind of expecting Cali-quality nugs. While this panel has proven to flower a 4x4 relatively evenly, I'm still skeptical that it could flower 4x4 feet of Cali-quality bud. I just wonder why a Cali grower would market a panel for anything less than top-shelf applications. I do believe Amare has a great spectrum design, but it seems clear that I didn't have enough power to max out the bud's density. My Mars nugs were hands down more dense, even if they lacked in other areas. I know density isn't everything, but it is a big part of that Cali-quality harvest. So it seems to me that the coverage may have been stretched to make the panels more attractive with dramatic wattage per coverage claims. The larger coverage accentuates the efficiency of a higher yield per watt, but the density at least is sacrificed. That's my honest observation.
I don't know what else I could have done different with the light besides hanging it closer to increase the intensity which would close the coverage. But I'm still satisfied with the panel of course so I'm going to focus more on other departments of the grow now so I can make sure these plants aren't hung up on something else.
JuanCarlos
Well-Known Member
I think they would do well to make a 9 COB panel, to me that makes perfect sense for 4x4 coverage. Some will say that it's on the higher end of light, but I think it would do well and help with penetration and density.
jaymu86
New Member
I've seen guys grow the density but if you have ever seen what pharmer led does with Amares I mean forearm size buds and that's was with a 350 so it's strain to me more than anything. Trust I said same but when I ran some hammer gods man nugs were like 2g but look maybe like 1g so nice and dense but n it too dense I hate ones like that, I like mid-heavy to mid-light
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The SolarPro9 has four COBs, four or five circular areas that contain 21 LEDs each, and supplementary LED diodes. IIRC, its suggested area is 5'x5', so it might be considered to be overkill for the grow room size you mentioned. OtOH, it might be all right depending on variables such as strain and the gardener's growing style. IDK.
My worry about a nine-COB panel for that size of space isn't whether or not it would provide sufficient light, it is whether or not it would provide too much in the center and too little around the edges. I don't know, but I am guessing that this is the point of offering smaller (but still powerful) panels that have the ability to be connected together with the brackets which are supplied - it allows the grower to spread the lighting out a little bit.
JuanCarlos
Well-Known Member
Let us not forget that the 450 was recommended for a 4'x4' and Versai believes it to be a bit anemic. So a panel that Amare suggests for a 5'x5' may be just what the power-hungry guys want.
Speaking to center-focused light, they always have the ability to make the housing bigger so the COBs can be placed farther out. That may not be everyone's cup of tea, so modular with the 3 diode strips comes into play, although you lose the UVB at that point, if that was something you are into. But ultimately, if a panel designed for a 5'x5' area is center focused in a 4'x4' area, wouldn't it be even more so in the 5'x5'?
I am waiting on someone to try the Timber DIY kits with 9 COBs in a 4x4. I think that would be a rocking setup.
PurpleGunRack
Well-Known Member
Too bad those THC Bombs didn't germinate, it's a killer strain and it will give you dense nugs under a candle.
You could always get a couple of the small mars reflectors to crank the wattage above the 600w line, recommended for 4x4 when using HID.
Going for some of the more expensive seeds can pay off big time, sometimes
You could always get a couple of the small mars reflectors to crank the wattage above the 600w line, recommended for 4x4 when using HID.
Going for some of the more expensive seeds can pay off big time, sometimes
jaymu86
New Member
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- #180
ConstantGreen
New Member
Juan gets me. I remember now that the Mars 1200 is recommended for a 4x4, but I used it in a 3x3 because I read of people suggesting going a size above their recommendations for better quality. So I spoiled myself a little with that overpowered setup.
Must be a market-wide trend to state the maximum coverage, but I'd definitely recommend going 1 size larger for Mars or Amare panels. At the time, the SE450 was the largest panel they offer, but I should have used it in a 3x3 at 18" for max effect.
For a 4x4, the Pro9 definitely looks attractive. Or two Pro4's. I think a UVB bulb might be fairly cheap, I could just get one to supplement because I do think the UVB helps. But at the 24" height this panel needs for a 4x4, I kind of doubt how effective a 15w UVB bulb is. I could hang a separate one as close as I want.