300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Setting Sun said:
thank you!

and thanks for reading through!





I appreciate your comments and concern. I almost did scrap the grow and start over when I was having the salt and mag issues, but with copious flushing, and then the addition of Osmocote Plus, all of the plants seemed to fully recover and so I decided to proceed with the comparison.

There is more than one way to look at this also. You could, for instance, just accept it as "it is what it is", and take note that the LED plants seemed less affected by the issue than the HID plants, which is a plus for the LED light.

Personally, while I think the "it is what it is" argument is valid from a certain perspective, it's not what I'm striving for.

If I felt strongly enough that either group was disadvantaged or handicapped significantly, I would have gone ahead and started over, but I feel good about the choice I made to continue, and I don't feel the comparison was invalidated.

I do, however, respect how you see things, since I'm pretty finicky also about stuff like this, but again, as the grower and person responsible for the accuracy of the results, I feel good about this comparison being equitable.

Not sure what I'm going to be doing for my next grow, but I'm havin' fun thinking about it ;)


thank you Saturn ;)
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I feel goooooooooooooooooooooood also:thumb: all plants went threw the same condition's so its fair in my book. so its all gooooooooood in the hooooood
 
re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

IrishBoy said:
am not going to lie SS but i am jealous of ur grow! i hope my tent looks as good as yours. very very nice work man:goodjob:
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thanks bro, very nice compliment coming from someone with your grow chops ;)

yup the pump water wand and shop vac is the same thing i use, i love my shop vac.
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The pump and wand is a lot easier and faster than a pump sprayer or watering can, and the shop vac cleanup also helps keep the humidity down.

u still adding cal/mad every feeding?
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I've been watering with rainwater supplemented with cal/mag up till now, but thinking of going with pure rainwater from now on. It's getting pretty close to the end, and the CRF's also provide micros, so I'll probably discontinue the cal/mag.

IYO do u think the coco is the best medium to use? or do u feel it could be as good if u were using soil?
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I like it a lot because it's water retention and aeration are hard to beat, but the "best" medium is whichever one a grower can use to grow nice plants with.

I really have very little experience with it, this being my first grow using it, but I'm very impressed.

if i remember right u didnt add perlite to the bottom of ur bucket its just coco? is their perlite in ur coco at all?
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There is pure perlite up to just above the hole, and above that is 70/30 coco/perlite.
 
re: ------------ 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

bmarduk said:
Heard that b4, I think that they will still be there. Thanx for answers. I'm interested in the difference between the lights, if any, in the quality of the trichomes

Sp4r500w.jpg

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with regards to size of the globes, the amount of goo, and the relative distributions of the colours of the little organelles,
when-to-harvest3.jpg

that is, if one lamp is ripening them faster than the other.

Looking good for Saturnalia, party on Garth!:headbang:

b
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Bmarduk thanks for the pic love it..........however i may be a genius :rasta:
Ive figured out how to geneticly modify trichs have a look at this.....

New_trichs.jpg



SS as per usual a stunning display. Thankyou.
 
re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

This is perhaps the best comparison grow ever.

An amazing job thus far Setting Sun!
I always learn something new when I stop in and get caught up.
 
re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Thanks for your response, much appreciated. :thumb:

There is a ton of info just in this thread and that in and of itself makes this a success. :goodjob:


The fact that the hid plants were lighter green and still are makes me think there is a nute uptake issue. That is not normal for hid, nice healthy dark green is not hard to come by when using an hid.

It is really odd that the problem was isolated to one tent, if it has anything to do with the lighting that would be significant information but I doubt that is the case. Maybe MIke may have some insight?

From my perspective it looks pretty obvious that the root system was damaged by the salt and never recovered. The light green represents nitrogen deficiency, nitrogen is as we well know very important for the plants health. And, the flushing may have depleted the nutes or at least decreased their effectiveness. At least consider that it's possible.

I think another grow without the growing media issue would be more revealing. And, there's nothing wrong with more weed. :lot-o-toke:

I post this just to put another point of view out there. I really respect what you have done here and you have my admiration and appreciation.

Thank you. :thumb::peacetwo:
 
re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Pop Kulture said:
SS - great journal - I have been lurking for a while but I have not caught all the posts in this thread - sorry in advanced if you have already answered this: At what point do low soil temps become an issue? I have read that below 65 degrees F plants have trouble or stop taking up nutrients. I am finding that my soil temps can get as low as 62 with lights out and up to 70 after several hours of my HID light running. Just wonder if you had any thoughts.

:peacetwo:
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Ideal root temp, IMO, is 70-72F, or around 5 degrees cooler than ideal above-ground temps.

I've seen growth in my plants with root temps below 65, but it sure slows down.

It's not so much that there's a fixed point beyond which no growth happens, although of course there is, it's that practically, assuming we're working within with a reasonable range of temps, growth will slow exponentially below the ideal of 72F.

You can keep plants alive and growing slowly by warming the roots with a heat mat in ambient temps that would otherwise stunt or kill them, or by using heating cables.

One of my first purchases when I started growing again was a couple of soil thermometers.

thanks PK, and glad you're onboard brother ;)
 
re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Saturn said:
Thanks for your response, much appreciated. :thumb:

There is a ton of info just in this thread and that in and of itself makes this a success. :goodjob:


The fact that the hid plants were lighter green and still are makes me think there is a nute uptake issue. That is not normal for hid, nice healthy dark green is not hard to come by when using an hid.

It is really odd that the problem was isolated to one tent, if it has anything to do with the lighting that would be significant information but I doubt that is the case. Maybe MIke may have some insight?

From my perspective it looks pretty obvious that the root system was damaged by the salt and never recovered. The light green represents nitrogen deficiency, nitrogen is as we well know very important for the plants health. And, the flushing may have depleted the nutes or at least decreased their effectiveness. At least consider that it's possible.

I think another grow without the growing media issue would be more revealing. And, there's nothing wrong with more weed. :lot-o-toke:

I post this just to put another point of view out there. I really respect what you have done here and you have my admiration and appreciation.

Thank you. :thumb::peacetwo:
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I would disagree with you that the foliage on the HID plants is *abnormally* light green.

It's actually quite healthy looking, but next to the LED plants, it just doesn't look as lush and dark.

If you didn't have the LED plants for comparison, I don't think anyone would be unhappy with the foliage on the HID plants.

Be that as it may, I do respect your comments, and I appreciate your encouragement ;).
 
re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Here's some trich pics from last night.


LED PLANTS


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HID PLANTS


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What I'm currently seeing is that the HID plants have larger gland heads, but generally spaced out further apart, while the LED plants have smaller trichs, but more of them.

The LED trichs seem more gooey in general, with more strands of clear resin bridging trichs together.


Also, both groups are a bit farther along than I expected, with the LED group showing a somewhat higher percentage of amber trichs than the HID group.

The LED group is at roughly 10-15% amber, with mostly cloudy and a few clear, while the HID group is roughly 5-10% amber with around 60/40 clear/cloudy.

I'm going to check trichs again on this coming Friday, and I may be harvesting the LED tent this weekend if the percentage of amber trichs has increased significantly.

The other signs I'm watching for as regards the plants being near the end of their lives is decreased water uptake, resulting in me not having to water them as often, and bud growth stopping, although the main thing I like to go by for when to harvest is the trichs.

Hope this is helpful ;).

:thankyou:
 
re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Very cool and good to hear that harvest may be coming in the near future for you SS. I'm excited to hear that the LED plants have more amber trichs. I am hoping that my tent is the same way. I'm all for fully ripe bud! I wonder if the lighting is why they mature faster. I've been taking a good look with just my eye on at my trichs and I think I can tell that trichs are extremly packed in. When my buds start drying I'm sure the trichs will really shine. It's really cool to see your pics and kinda reassure what I was see'n. I also noticed that my girls are really slowin down on the drinking. In fact, I do not even think I need to water them anymore and I watered 4 days ago.

Thanks for the great post. It really helped me make up my mind on harvest. I'll be cutting half of them down tomorrow and the other half later this week. I'm sure that snow white at 70 days flower must be over 30% amber trichs. Great update and look forward to what you see on next weeks trich check.
 
re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Coming to the end of another awe inspiring journey. Absolutely marvelous grow and journal.
Thanks SS!
 
re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Great job! The LEDs appear to have more amber. I think in SFhaze's journal at some point he said he noticed a faster flower time with the LED. If that's the case do you plan on harvesting both at the same time or will you go by ripeness?
 
re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Love the trich pics SS! Absolutely awesome. Congrats on a great grow, great journal and thanks for helping us all out....:thankyou:
 
re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Setting Sun said:
The foliage on both groups looks amazing for late bloom. My understanding is that the longer the leaves stay green, the longer they can produce sugars and supply the swelling buds. Balancing the nitrogen level with two or three-part liquid nutes isn't always easy, but the CRF's I used on this grow have my nute levels on autopilot.

It's easier to relinquish nute control over to CRF's once you see first-hand how well they work.

My time, energy and money is better spent in optimizing the environment than in juggling multiple bottles of nutes and supplements.
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I've been away for a few days, but have managed to catch up this morning....fantastic! But then, I could have predicted what they'd look like now about 2 months ago....

I hope all the folks following and emulating caught this quote that I've included above.

Optimize the environment! Spend money on that....not nutes!

For example: The complete House and Garden line for a grow this size would be over 400 bucks! AN would come in ever-so-slightly lower.

SS's nutes cost less than 25.00.....and he's got enough left over to do this a few more times after spending that 25 bucks.

Save the money and buy fans, ducting, humidifiers/dehumidifiers, etc. That's how you do this folks!
 
re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Setting Sun said:
Ideal root temp, IMO, is 70-72F, or around 5 degrees cooler than ideal above-ground temps.

I've seen growth in my plants with root temps below 65, but it sure slows down.

It's not so much that there's a fixed point beyond which no growth happens, although of course there is, it's that practically, assuming we're working within with a reasonable range of temps, growth will slow exponentially below the ideal of 72F.

You can keep plants alive and growing slowly by warming the roots with a heat mat in ambient temps that would otherwise stunt or kill them, or by using heating cables.

One of my first purchases when I started growing again was a couple of soil thermometers.

thanks PK, and glad you're onboard brother ;)
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That's what I thought. With soil temps below 65 degrees I'm going to need a heating mat setup of some sort.

:thankyou:
 
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