300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

[Troublesome2]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Looking great Mr. Sun Only slight differences that i see. So far looks like there pretty much keeping up with each other.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

thanks troublesome!

Both groups of plants are remarkably similar now, but it's going to be interesting to see how the stretch goes.

I have both lights at 20" right now.

Here's a pic I forgot to post yesterday:

The HID plants are generally about 1" taller than the LED plants. The LED plants are a little bushier and stockier looking.

Stem diameters are about the same.

Watering frequency has been the same for both groups.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

I just love this pic.

I've been wanting to do this grow for a long time .

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Here's a pic I forgot to post yesterday:

The HID plants are generally about 1" taller than the LED plants. The LED plants are a little bushier and stockier looking.

lol, I was looking at this pic today, and I thought, that can't be right.

It seems I was a bit high and measured from the ground instead of from the surface of the soil, so I'll try to get that right tonight, lol.

they're not that tall

 

[MJ Crescendo]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

This is really cool SS. That last picture you mentioned is showing just about equal abilities in the lights thus far. Keep up the pro work! I can tell that PPP loves the LST by the bushiness in those girls. They are just about perfect. In the future, I'll need to decide how many plants I'll be doing in my tent so curious of which route to take. I do like the idea of 4. I really like the dark green in the LED girls. Go GLH!

 

[IrishBoy]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

wow bro they look like different plants. very cool. the condition's seem to just make the plants thrive. Now i9 am going to need to try coco in my Hempy!lol.

the plants are very close to each other. its crazy! ive never seen such equal cuttings. but ya the HID seems to be a little more stretched on the nodes as of right now. this is one thing i want to see real bad is the stretching difference.

I think its very cool your leaving each light the same hight. kinda show this in a more equal manner.

Ive always wanted to pot my cuttings off center for LST but ive read something like it makes you roots twist up faster because they hit the wall and go straight down, but now that i think about it that is what we want in Hempy to hit that res fast.

i think i might try ur LST method. do it right before flowering, let those nodes build up for more tops.

some time when ur dont doing side x sides you should check out the DM Red Bottle, its is destroying in bud mass. the buds are rock hard and just fat. none of the others are even close on the bud size. the purple is doing great also but not as fat as the red. the only bad thing is they dont put any Cal in it. so cal/mag would be needed, and might not be the best choice for coco.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Thank you MJ .

I thought I would mention that the only time you'll be able to compare the color of the plants is when I take them out, like in that last set of pics, because the pics of the LED plants inside the tent are color-corrected with my camera, so that dark green in those pics doesn't truly represent their color.

That last set of pics with the plants outside the tents and CFL lighting is how they really look.

The color-corrected LED pics are a whole lot easier on the eyes than not correcting, but the color is only as good as the camera's computer can fix things, and hot pink makes it hesitate for a second, lol.

I really like PPP so far. It's obviously a forgiving strain, lol.

Yeah, they bushed out within hours of being tied down, and so far, the canopy is nice and even, with lots of branching and bud sites.

I am going to cull one plant in each tent, probably tomorrow, because I think the yield will be better.

They had lots of veg time and were pretty large when I flipped them, so I think 3 will max things out. If they go into bloom with the same energy they've been showing recently, it should be good.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

wow bro they look like different plants.

lol, that's exactly what I thought when I looked at them. I love what I'm seeing with the coco/hempy/CRF combination. I may go back to using tap water and see how it goes, because I read somewhere today that the calcium/magnesium ratio you want is 4:1, and that's almost exactly what my tap water has. Then I'd just have to PH my tap water down a little and I'm done.

very cool. the condition's seem to just make the plants thrive. Now i9 am going to need to try coco in my Hempy!lol.

Both groups seem very happy with their environments, so I'm happy too .

the plants are very close to each other. its crazy! ive never seen such equal cuttings. but ya the HID seems to be a little more stretched on the nodes as of right now. this is one thing i want to see real bad is the stretching difference.

yep, that's going to be very interesting.

I think its very cool your leaving each light the same hight. kinda show this in a more equal manner.

I'm setting them at where they seem to work best, and right now, it's with both at 20", but that could change.

I'm thinking of this as individual grows where I try to yield the most from each tent, so it's just coincidence that they're both at the same height.

The personal grower wants good yield, and is not concerned with equal heights .

Ive always wanted to pot my cuttings off center for LST but ive read something like it makes you roots twist up faster because they hit the wall and go straight down, but now that i think about it that is what we want in Hempy to hit that res fast.

These are just enough off-center to help keep the plant centered over the container, but they aren't too close to the wall. But yeah, in hempy it would be a good thing if they bottomed out faster.

i think i might try ur LST method. do it right before flowering, let those nodes build up for more tops.

and I'd like to try training them through veg, to see how that works

some time when ur dont doing side x sides you should check out the DM Red Bottle, its is destroying in bud mass. the buds are rock hard and just fat. none of the others are even close on the bud size. the purple is doing great also but not as fat as the red. the only bad thing is they dont put any Cal in it. so cal/mag would be needed, and might not be the best choice for coco.

The plants must really like the balanced NPK on the Red DM. Too bad it doesn't have any calcium. I don't understand why they made that choice, but it might work just fine with my tap water, which at 245ppm, has a goodly amount of cal-mag, and in the right ratio.

thanks bro, I appreciate your comments and feedback

 

[SnowBender]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

I read somewhere today that the calcium/magnesium ratio you want is 4:1, and that's almost exactly what my tap water has.

When pots legal we can get the local water company to really tweak the tap water for even better results!

Message from the Oakland chamber of commerce -"Move to pot town California, where the tap water is 5.8ph and has all the micros you need for a stellar harvest! Now available unchlorinated and without fluoride."

 

[The Lurker]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Once I flushed the salt out of there, they really took off. Growth has been amazing in the coco/hempy...

The LED plants are a little bushier and stockier. All the plants are looking tons better since the flush...

Growth is off the hook, in both tents...

Cool beans. Knowing how coco likes to hold onto ions and release them over time though, couldn't hurt to do another couple of mini-flushes (or just water more than usual) for the next few weeks, just to be sure.

Reminds me of those organic chem labs where we'd rinse product at least three times during an extraction before final weight. To this day, I still pre-wash the dishes - and rinse those fruits and veggies - several times. 'Triple-washed' salad mix from the grocery store? Still not gonna eat it straight out of the bag, in my house.

Old habits die hard...

I personally like [and am using] the Phillips 400w CMH retrofit horizontal with a 400w magnetic HPS ballast, spectrum is pretty in both colors...

It certainly is. I've run regular and 'enhanced' HIDs of both types. As has been pointed out before, 30% more of nothing, is still nothing. CMH looks like Goldilocks to me.

When that 'nothing' is a little more blue to a HPS, though, you do notice a difference. A little goes a long way.

And, not one (i.e. a total spectrum) you can't get much cheaper by buying regular industrial bulbs and adding some cheap FL to the mix. (not an 'all-in-one' lighting solution, though) There's money to be had in that there marketing.

I like a lamp that comes on and goes off when told.

Clap on, clap off...The Clapper!

Unfortunately for her, she's the kill, not the killer [haven't told her yet, she thinks she's going to Disneyland.]

Well, perhaps a mite inappropriate, but apropos also...

(Don't bother writing me! And leave my pics up!)

The problem with waiting is that if I cull them now, I can position the remaining 3 plants to have more light and space. If I wasn't sacrificing anything by waiting, I wouldn't pull them now.

I really think the yield will be higher with 3 plants, but only if I pull one now so the rest can get bigger. Having the plants arranged in a triangle under the light gets them centered much better under the light than when they're arranged in a square, and air circulates better also.

I'll hold off a couple days at least on the culling in case someone has a compelling argument to keep all 4.

I'd prefer to see you run all four to fill the corners too, and simply prune errant material if it gets too dense, but I understand the argument for running three, also. Veg time plays a factor.
---

You can always throw the odd girls out into the extra cab with the T5, no? If you do, be sure to take a few pics for posterity.

You can call that grow the 'Redundant Runt-acular.'

...Hmmm, what else does 'runt' rhyme with? Calling Gator, consulting job on line one!

My thoughts at this point are a little confused. I'm wondering why the LED plants demonstrated less salt toxicity, and I have to assume that it's because the LED light doesn't push plant metabolism as hard as HID light.

However, the LED plants are a little bushier and bigger, so their metabolism isn't slow. I'm not sure what to make of it. Just glad they're all doing well...

I may have a little theory on that, but perhaps we'll just see how this plays out at this point. Idle musings from a curious mind...

I've been wanting to do this grow for a long time ;).[/QUOTE]

Intention and action always seem to come together in a kind of alchemy. ;)

(b knows a bit about alchemy too, I suspect...Mystery Schools?)

[quote="Setting Sun, post: 1182031"]...the color is only as good as the camera's computer can fix things, and [B][COLOR="Red"]hot pink[/COLOR][/B] makes it hesitate for a second, lol...[/QUOTE]

You're tellin' me....

Depends who's wearing it. :)

[quote="Setting Sun, post: 1181588"]The HID plants have fully recovered and are equal in size to slightly taller than the LED plants, which are slightly shorter and bushier. Both groups have good color...

We're rollin' into bloom with two healthy and vigorous sets of plants and coco is out of the doghouse ;)[/QUOTE]

Glad to hear it. ;) Hoist the sails, swab the decks, batten down the hatches, and [B]grab the grog, arrrrr[/B]!

[img]https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/1398/LOLcat_pirate.jpg

Out of the cove, around the reef, and out to open sea we go!

 

[Propa Gator]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Redundant Runt Grunt = happy action in the back room

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

I think its very cool your leaving each light the same hight. kinda show this in a more equal manner.

I was thinking some more about this today.

It gets complicated, lol. It's difficult to compare dissimilar technologies and keep things fair.

If I'm able to drop the HID light lower than the LED light, it's going to be mostly because it's air-cooled, and that puts the LED light at a disadvantage.

or am I missing something?

They both require the same ventilation setup to manage heat, but the HID light needs additional measures taken in order to be used at all, so it doesn't seem fair to use the benefit of air-cooling to drop the HID light down lower, when that benefit is a consequence of having to compensate for a weakness.

you know what I'm sayin', lol

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

When pots legal we can get the local water company to really tweak the tap water for even better results!

Message from the Oakland chamber of commerce -"Move to pot town California, where the tap water is 5.8ph and has all the micros you need for a stellar harvest! Now available unchlorinated and without fluoride."

or maybe offer two separate lines, one at 5.8 for hydro, and one at 6.5 for soil

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Cool beans. Knowing how coco likes to hold onto ions and release them over time though, couldn't hurt to do another couple of mini-flushes (or just water more than usual) for the next few weeks, just to be sure.

very good idea, and I'm going to flush them again this weekend.

Well, perhaps a mite inappropriate, but apropos also...

(Don't bother writing me! And leave my pics up!)

OK, now yer scaring me

I'd prefer to see you run all four to fill the corners too, and simply prune errant material if it gets too dense, but I understand the argument for running three, also. Veg time plays a factor.

---


I was thinking of your phrase "fill the corners" today, and I've decided to keep the 4 plants.

It's never been my intention to "fill the corners" in my previous grows, so I asked myself why that was, and the answer is that I've been growing with lower wattage lights than these, so my practice was to crowd plants in towards the most intense light at the center of the tents as opposed to filling the corners and utilizing all the available space.

These two lights have more intensity and coverage, so I have to change my approach and take advantage of all the available space.

thanks for a very compelling argument.

You can always throw the odd girls out into the extra cab with the T5, no? If you do, be sure to take a few pics for posterity.

You can call that grow the 'Redundant Runt-acular.'

I was thinking of putting them outdoors and hoping for the best, but it's getting too cold for them to have gotten much revenge out there .

I may have a little theory on that, but perhaps we'll just see how this plays out at this point. Idle musings from a curious mind...

yeah, well some people muse better than others, so whenever you're ready, spill the beans, lol

Intention and action always seem to come together in a kind of alchemy.

I keep telling that to Mrs. Sun

Glad to hear it. Hoist the sails, swab the decks, batten down the hatches, and grab the grog, arrrrr!

Out of the cove, around the reef, and out to open sea we go!

"a ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for"

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Just a few pics I took tonight after I decided to keep all four plants and re-arranged things a little.



The HID side:

The LED side:

I pushed the plants in each tent towards the corners a little, and that allowed me to run my circulation fan in the center pointed straight up.

It's a small 4" fan, which doesn't blow the leaves around too much, but makes the ladies very happy since they "breathe" through their stomata, which are present mostly on the underside of their leaves.

The column of air going straight up at the light also has another huge benefit.

With the fan in that position, and the lights at the same height as before, canopy temps dropped from an average of 80 to an average of 74. Love that infrared thermometer .

An hour after I moved them around a little and set their fans pointing up, they had perked up and were looking happier than ever.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Redundant Runt Grunt = happy action in the back room

The back room is often where I have the most fun.

that's where I get to do the stuff you do in the front room .

you're doing some cool stuff, Mr. Gator, I'll try to get over there today.

 

[dogsnova]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

SS you got to remember the effect of inverse square law... A 400w HPS HID light one foot off the canopy gives aprox 55,000 lumens.... Put that same bulb two feet off the canopy and now were talkin' aprox 15,000 lumens if that...

That's the thing with HID lighting...... IMO in order for this side by side to be fair... The HID bulb must be kept aprox one foot off the canopy.... If not the HID lighting will be at big disadvantage and it's going get it's ass handed to it...lol

The heat coming from the HID light is by default...... It's not the lights fault...

We as the growers have to remove the heat which in turn lets us/you put the HID light much closer to the top of the canopy..

Trust me there was a time not so long ago 1989 (lol) when we as growers didn't have air cooled hoods.. Hell I remember when there wasn't even glass for the hoods...

The exact reason that air cooled hoods are for sale today is because growers saw the effects of having HID bulbs one foot (or closer) off the canopy..

Just my 2 cents...

 

[GrownManHollr]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

You mite want to put an apple-in-the-mouth and to shut the lid.

She got all dressed up to go the Disnyeland.

After we took out the apple and opened up the trunk.

b

That's the kind of Purple Passion I'm talkin' about man!

 

[IrishBoy]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

great idea putting the fan in the middle blowing up. i was going to do that on my next grow because its only common sense, the air is taken in from under the leaves mostly, i was going to run some ducting from my intake right to the fan and have the freshest air blowing straight up, plus the airs always cooler down low, but i never thought it would drop ur canopy temps that much. crazy!!

good old gator gave me this idea with his very setup.

were did u get that fan at? ive been looking for one like that. does it blow ur out side eaves also?

kinda glade u kept ur 4th plant because she doest look like a runt anymore, but u know if things get too dense and blocks allot of light something has to give sometimes. its hard tossing a lady when their that old but its for the best most times, less light less bigger buds down low= less yield. you always have the option of my friend lollipoping.lol

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

It's a "Massey" 4" fan. They carry them at lots of X-marts, but it's usually a seasonal item. You can find lots of them on ebay too.

It's probably not enough for a tent any bigger than mine though. For a bigger tent, I'd go with a 6" or 9" Lakewood fan, or any fan that pivots so that you can orient it vertically.

I may add a couple more fans to my tents as it gets thicker in there, but the center fan pointing up stays through the whole grow.

I think it stresses plants to blow them around too much, but blowing up from below, if you get the fan size/speed right, works really well.

I arrange the plants far enough apart to allow a good breeze to hit the light, but close enough so that a few fan leaves catch some of the breeze also. When the breeze hits a few of the lower fan leaves from below, it deflects and gently flutters the whole plant.

I play with circulation fan position a lot, because the devil's in the details, and blowing up through the center of the canopy towards the radiant heat source is my favorite setup.