300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

I've 2nd thoughts on CRFs in my WTW coir grows.
If I must inoculate or supplement in any way, the deal's off.
Your drama SS, is word for me. Thankyou

I think it was more an issue of salt toxicity, as TL mentioned, than anything else. The Dynamite looks like it's kicking in since the flush. How it works down the line remains to be seen, but it's working for now.

Flushing for health? Nothing like a good purge.

when in doubt, whip that hose out.


Here's something I found on the uptake of the calcium and magnesium in tap water versus commercial products:

Maximum Yield - Indoor Gardening

 

[Propa Gator]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Here's something I found on the uptake of the calcium and magnesium in tap water versus commercial products:

Maximum Yield - Indoor Gardening

Gellert builds a case on shaky legs

Calcium and magnesium are also the most abundant minerals in tap water. The majority of the PPM, or EC reading, you obtain from a measuring device is cal-mag. The most typical form of these minerals in your untreated water is calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate.

Yup, I believe that part, but then this:

Unfortunately, contrary to popular belief, these forms are virtually unusable by plants, especially fast growing plants. The molecules of these compounds are far too large and immobile to be absorbed by the roots and transported to where the plant needs them.

This is the part that rattles my cage. He should quote his sources.
Maybe a hookah smoking caterpillar
He later lists those same salts as ingredients used by 'Nutrient' marketers.
IMO he's selling shit, I mean fertilizer. No, no- I mean Nutrient$

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

RE the Cal/mag aticle:

I call BS.

If what he were saying is true, no one could grow houseplants or vegetables, and outdoor plants would be smaller than indoor.

Using my critical med-journal reading style, this article smacks of bias. Bias in favor of high priced nutrients.

 

[Propa Gator]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Bias in favor of high priced nutrients.

And tapwater wasteful RO filters. So un-green

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

@SS ive been using roots organics coco without rinsing (and some freinds have too)...so far so good... we did pre soak with 10ml/per gal cal-mag instead of 5ml tho.

That's good to know. I know there's a few other brands that *do* come pre-rinsed and can be used as-is. I'll just be a lot more careful about it in the future.

thank you SnowBender!

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Gellert builds a case on shaky legs

Yup, I believe that part, but then this:

This is the part that rattles my cage. He should quote his sources.
Maybe a hookah smoking caterpillar
He later lists those same salts as ingredients used by 'Nutrient' marketers.
IMO he's selling shit, I mean fertilizer. No, no- I mean Nutrient$

RE the Cal/mag aticle:

I call BS.

If what he were saying is true, no one could grow houseplants or vegetables, and outdoor plants would be smaller than indoor.

Using my critical med-journal reading style, this article smacks of bias. Bias in favor of high priced nutrients.

I'm not convinced either. There are some good articles at Maximum Yield, but you always have to filter things through their agenda, which is to advertise and sell product.

This is a simple question, however, and I haven't been able to find much reputable info.

Does the molecular size of calcium and magnesium in tap water cause the uptake to be significantly lower than in commercial products?

Probably not, because as Doc points out, we wouldn't have people all over the nation growing nice vegetables with tap water if that was the case.

I may go back to using tap water on this grow and see how it goes.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

OK, they've all been LST'ed, and they're all doing very well.

First, the LED plants:

and now the HID plants:

At the back right corner of both tents, there is one plant that's smaller, and I'm thinking of culling those two plants to allow the others more room.

I can already tell it's going to be too crowded in there with 4 plants, so probably going to cull the little ones out of each tent.

I flipped them last night, so today is their first day on 12/12. I'm going to swap the 400w MH bulb in the HID tent for a Lumatek 400w HPS bulb.

All the plants are healthy since I flushed the salt out of the coco, and they responded to the LST faster and better than any other strain I've grown previously.

The tents are going to be packed, even with three plants, so there's a chance I may wind up with just two in each tent, but it depends on how thick it gets in there.

First day of bloom!

 

[endive]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

The LED ladies are looking gorgeous! How do they compare node wise?

I can't wait to see how it goes now that you have the HPS in.

 

[IrishBoy]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

WOW bro the plants are explosive in veg. seems coco and Hempy make great growth!

from the pics all sets of plants look to be pretty equal so far, kinda looks like the leds are a little more bushy but might just be the pics? whats ur thought this far on each light? the girls also look tons better from the flush.

do you think next set of pics you could snap a few on the nodes from each tent so we can see how their stacking under each light?

you might have to cut out the runts because it looks like theirs going to be a jungle in their. i guess its best to just wait until the time comes.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

The LED ladies are looking gorgeous! How do they compare node wise?

I can't wait to see how it goes now that you have the HPS in.

Thanks endive!

I'll put an LED and HID plant side-by-side tomorrow and take some pics.

They're pretty close node-wise, but they spent most of veg under a T5, so assessment of the veg performance of the LED and HID is limited.

The LED plants are a little bushier with slightly larger leaves than the HID plants.

The HID plants have recovered from the salt toxicity and are now under an HPS bulb. The Lumatek bulb was a dud. Kept cycling on and off. I tried it with both the Lumatek 400w ballast and my Galaxy 400w ballast, and it did the same thing with both ballasts, so the bulb's defective.

I installed the new Ushio HiLux Gro HPS bulb that I was initially going to go with on this grow. It fired right up with no problems and is a quality bulb.

HiLux Gro - Grow Light - Horticulture - USHIO

I'm going to exchange the Lumatek bulb for another one, but when you hold both the Lumatek and the Ushio bulbs in your hand, there's no comparison as to material and build quality. I don't know about how they compare grow-wise, but the Ushio is a jewel, while the Lumatek seems more like a generic HPS bulb in materials and build.

I'll give the Lumatek another chance, but I'm impressed with the Ushio.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

WOW bro the plants are explosive in veg. seems coco and Hempy make great growth!

once I flushed the salt out of there, they really took off. Growth has been amazing in the coco/hempy. The Dynamite seems to be doing well now also.

from the pics all sets of plants look to be pretty equal so far, kinda looks like the leds are a little more bushy but might just be the pics? whats ur thought this far on each light? the girls also look tons better from the flush.

The LED plants are a little bushier and stockier. All the plants are looking tons better since the flush.

My thoughts at this point are a little confused. I'm wondering why the LED plants demonstrated less salt toxicity, and I have to assume that it's because the LED light doesn't push plant metabolism as hard as HID light.

However, the LED plants are a little bushier and bigger, so their metabolism isn't slow. I'm not sure what to make of it. Just glad they're all doing well.

The excellent veg performance of the LED light is undeniable.

do you think next set of pics you could snap a few on the nodes from each tent so we can see how their stacking under each light?

would have been better to do that before the LST, but I think I can get my camera in there and take some comparison pics.

you might have to cut out the runts because it looks like theirs going to be a jungle in their. i guess its best to just wait until the time comes.

the problem with waiting is that if I cull them now, I can position the remaining 3 plants to have more light and space. If I wasn't sacrificing anything by waiting, I wouldn't pull them now.

I really think the yield will be higher with 3 plants, but only if I pull one now so the rest can get bigger. Having the plants arranged in a triangle under the light gets them centered much better under the light than when they're arranged in a square, and air circulates better also.

I'll hold off a couple days at least on the culling in case someone has a compelling argument to keep all 4.

 

[Tyrone Hamilton]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

That's one nice thing about hempy - flushing could not be easier! I am starting to love the ease of OC+ and perlite - only pain is making sure the PH is right.

Keep up the good work my friend!

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Thank your lucky stars and go buy a lotto ticket, you are now using a good lamp.

b

You like the Ushio over the Lumatek?

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

That's one nice thing about hempy - flushing could not be easier!

Hempy, how I love thee, let me count the ways .

I am starting to love the ease of OC+ and perlite - only pain is making sure the PH is right.

what PH are you running?

Keep up the good work my friend!

thank you OBX, and thanks for visiting

 

[Tyrone Hamilton]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

what PH are you running?

I'm shooting for 5.7 to 6.2 on the input, have not measured output yet.

I've been adding a bit of ph down to RO water, then using tap to bring it back up a bit since it takes almost no PH down in RO to drop it to 5.0. I figure I need a bit of the Cal Mag in tap, but not as much as using it straight.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Granted, but you know I don't put much stock in personal anecdotes, even if they're mine.

I couldn't find any reports of Lumatek bulb failures or problems on the Net, so I look at it as it just being my turn to be the odd man out, so to speak .

If I had found other reports of failures, I wouldn't hesitate to place blame, but I'm not sure that's the case here.

They haven't been out that long either, so I'm going to keep checking.

In any case, the Ushio is a great bulb.

 

[IrishBoy]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

i would agree SS, you could get more yield with 3 plants then four, is space is a issue, because they will fight over the light and shade each other. my friend that use to grow is a cab, use to grow 8 plants then kept cutting a plant or 2 every grow and kept getting more yield. at the end he got more yield from 2 plants then eight. then he went one plant SCROG but didn't get as much yield as the 2 plants but real close only maybe 2-3oz shy. this is why i am cutting the # of plants also. i have the room to do 6 plants but as you can see in my grow shit happens and things sometimes get huge. i have allot of shading on my plants. if the light is allot better without the 4th one then i would cut her for sure.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

I'm shooting for 5.7 to 6.2 on the input, have not measured output yet.

thanks for the feedback.

I've been adding a bit of ph down to RO water, then using tap to bring it back up a bit since it takes almost no PH down in RO to drop it to 5.0. I figure I need a bit of the Cal Mag in tap, but not as much as using it straight.

whatever it takes to keep em green .


I made a foliar spray with a quart of rainwater, 2 tsp seaweed extract, and 1/4 tsp Cal-Mag+, and it fixed a calcium deficiency in my outdoor LR2's and seemed to boost flowering.

I had just watered them, and they're in dirt, so it would have been a few days before I could water them with some Cal-Mag, but the foliar spray saved the day. Shot my tomato plants with the remainder in the sprayer and they loved it too.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

i would agree SS, you could get more yield with 3 plants then four, is space is a issue, because they will fight over the light and shade each other. my friend that use to grow is a cab, use to grow 8 plants then kept cutting a plant or 2 every grow and kept getting more yield. at the end he got more yield from 2 plants then eight. then he went one plant SCROG but didn't get as much yield as the 2 plants but real close only maybe 2-3oz shy. this is why i am cutting the # of plants also. i have the room to do 6 plants but as you can see in my grow shit happens and things sometimes get huge. i have allot of shading on my plants. if the light is allot better without the 4th one then i would cut her for sure.

Wait till you see how much they grew in the last 24 hours . Three plants are going to fill the tents in really well.

After that big flush, I think it took a couple days for the Dynamite to build up, but things are looking great now.

I'm going to cull the two runts tomorrow, and give the rest some room to stretch .

man, I can't wait to post the pics I just took, lol

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Growth is off the hook, in both tents.

The HID plants have fully recovered and are equal in size to slightly taller than the LED plants, which are slightly shorter and bushier. Both groups have good color.

The LED plants have slightly larger and broader leaves.

The node spacing is hard to demonstrate, but it's essentially the same in both groups.

Pure Power Plant seems to love LST.

The LED plants:

The HID plants:

Side-by-side, with the LED on the left and HID on the right. The HID bucket is marked with yellow tape.

This is node spacing on the HID plant:

and node spacing on the LED plant:

I've always wanted to plant seeds or transplant offset, so that when I LST, the plant would be more centered over the container, but I've always spaced it until this time . I like the plants centered, it makes them a lot easier to move around.

we're rollin' into bloom with two healthy and vigorous sets of plants and coco is out of the doghouse