1st Grow - Alaskan Thunderfuck x4 - Durban Poison - Blue Kush & Blueberry In Kindsoil

Re: 1st Grow - Alaskan Thunderfuck x4 - Durban Poison - Blue Kush & Blueberry In Kind

Oil Update

Hey guys and gals. Took this weekend and decided to try my maiden voyage in making my own oil. I had 5 bags of trim and fluff bud that I froze from my first harvest so I used the trim/fluff from the Blue Kush (lots of fluff) and Durban Poison. I decided to experiment with that before using any real good buds in the oil. I decarbed the oil on my grill over indirect heat (2 far burners on and my digital thermometer was holding steady at about 220-225 degrees. Decarbed for about 2 hours. After decarbing, the weights were 22grams of Durban Poison trim/fluff and 39 grams of Blue Kush.

From there, I decided to experiment a little bit. I did the Blue Kush in Olive Oil and the Durban Poison in coconut oil. For the Durban, I cooked it in 1 cup of coconut oil and for the Blue Kush I cooked it in 2 cups of olive oil. I did my 'cooking' on the gas stove but I struggled to get the oil at the 210-220 range (even on the lowest setting, the oil was hitting 255 degrees) so Ms Stank came up with the idea of putting a skillet under to pot to see if it would dissipate some of the heat. Idea worked perfectly so I put the pot with the oil and trim on the skillet sitting on the gas burner. I was able to keep the temp in the 200-210 range. I reduced the trim/fluff for about 7 hours at that heat.

Here are the results of my efforts. Not sure if it worked, I took the initial dose of Blue Kush oil at a 1 ml dose. I didn't feel much besides being a bit relaxed and stress free. Later today I will give 2 ml dose a shot and see if it has more kick to it. Will do up a batch of ATF and Blueberry oil tomorrow.

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Re: 1st Grow - Alaskan Thunderfuck x4 - Durban Poison - Blue Kush & Blueberry In Kind

Guy Cavallero said:
No not yet, I was trying to Source everything in Canada as much as possible to save on shipping costs.

Yeah.... to get one bag of kind soil delivered to my door here , it was going to be close to $200 US . Good product or not, good luck with that!

I'll ask over there as well, thanks for all the great advice brother.
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I am not Sure If eBay ships to you to but is This the product you are talking about?
420-magazine-mobile904034101.jpg


Not Sure if it was ok to post, but i feel like helping out :)
 
Re: 1st Grow - Alaskan Thunderfuck x4 - Durban Poison - Blue Kush & Blueberry In Kind

NaturalSpirit said:
I am not Sure If eBay ships to you to but is This the product you are talking about?
420-magazine-mobile904034101.jpg


Not Sure if it was ok to post, but i feel like helping out :)
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Yeah thats the product, but he is in canada and for some reason to ship there is really expensive.
 
Re: 1st Grow - Alaskan Thunderfuck x4 - Durban Poison - Blue Kush & Blueberry In Kind

imtoasted said:
Awesome man!! It may not be as potent cause it was heated up too much.. just think of it as your nighttime oil! Nice job.
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Well I didn't add in the trim/fluff bud until I got the oil at a stable temp LOL, I know better than that!!
 
Re: 1st Grow - Alaskan Thunderfuck x4 - Durban Poison - Blue Kush & Blueberry In Kind

Not sure how you even found that on eBay, Phillip kind, the owner of kind soil assured me that kind soil would never end up on eBay. That being said, to ship through Amazon was ridiculous!
 
Re: 1st Grow - Alaskan Thunderfuck x4 - Durban Poison - Blue Kush & Blueberry In Kind

Van Stank said:
Well I didn't add in the trim/fluff bud until I got the oil at a stable temp LOL, I know better than that!!
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Brave. I need more trim to be able to do that LOL. Definitely on my to do list though for sure.
 
Re: 1st Grow - Alaskan Thunderfuck x4 - Durban Poison - Blue Kush & Blueberry In Kind

Guy Cavallero said:
Not sure how you even found that on eBay, Phillip kind, the owner of kind soil assured me that kind soil would never end up on eBay. That being said, to ship through Amazon was ridiculous!
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Guess that didn't stop someone from buying it and reselling it LOL
 
Re: 1st Grow - Alaskan Thunderfuck x4 - Durban Poison - Blue Kush & Blueberry In Kind

Van Stank said:
Guess that didn't stop someone from buying it and reselling it LOL
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Nope lol. I looked on Ebay.ca and it's not available in Canada.
 
Re: 1st Grow - Alaskan Thunderfuck x4 - Durban Poison - Blue Kush & Blueberry In Kind

Van Stank said:
Yeah thats the product, but he is in canada and for some reason to ship there is really expensive.
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Ah ok. I tought it Could be strange arrangements from Amazon. I Did give it a shot ;)
 
Re: 1st Grow - Alaskan Thunderfuck x4 - Durban Poison - Blue Kush & Blueberry In Kind

Hi VS - nice work you've got going on all the time. Plants look brilliant!

Over in the Cannabis Oil study hall and the 'holy grail' threads run by SweetSue, the recommendation for stovetop oil infusions is to use a double boiler with oil in the bottom pan as well. This gives an even temp to the oil in the middle pot with the herb. I'm also pretty sure they say that decarb can happen while infusing (so no prior decarb required).

Did you add liquid lecithin to the oil? This enables the bioavailability. You add a tblsp of liquid sunflower lecithin for every cup, or half cup (will have to confirm that with Sue, or I'll check back in the thread) of oil and give it 24hrs in the fridge to bind. And apparently the coconut oil one should be faster acting, and a bit more 'recreational'. You have probably garnered that info over there already but seeing as you didn't mention lecithin I thought I'd mention it just in case. There's more detailed explanation of what the lecithin does over in the study hall. Or, maybe SweetSue will drop by and clarify what I've said here. (Id drop a link here but find that too cumbersome in the app - I'm sure you'll find them, you prob'ly have already!)

I've not made a stovetop version yet. Only a 36hr infusion in the oven with already dry herb. Is a brilliant pain med, and sleep aid. I hope you get some good pain relief out of your oils, as well as pure recreational joy!

.
 
Re: 1st Grow - Alaskan Thunderfuck x4 - Durban Poison - Blue Kush & Blueberry In Kind

Hi Amy, thanks for the kind words!! Nice to see a new face over here.

This was my maiden voyage on the oil production so we had no idea what to expect or what we would encounter. I honestly thought I would be able to keep the temps low enough on the lowest setting on my smallest 2 gas burners. I even tried only having half of the pan over the heat and still about 250 was the lowest I could get. We considered the double boiler but decided to try them with this method.

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The temps stayed very steady (as they usually do with gas burners as opposed to electric). We might give the double boiler a try next go around. I think I will try doing two more batches tomorrow, one batch of Alaskan Thunderfuck, and one batch of Blueberry. That will leave me one more batch of ATF trim to play with after some more experimenting.

I didn't have any liquid lecithin to add to it so its a bare run of just oil and reduced trim/fluff bud. Guess I somehow missed the specifics on what type of lecithin to use. I will try to pick some up to use on the next batches. I am not too worried if this batch is a bust, its all part of the learning curve. Right now I am just playing with dosage of these batches. 1 ml was essentially insignificant, kind of like one beer at the end of a bad day. It might take just a little edge of mentally but didn't do much physically. Getting ready to try 2 ml today. Thanks for the info Amy, I really do appreciate it. Going to go to Amazon and order liquid lecithin.
 
Re: 1st Grow - Alaskan Thunderfuck x4 - Durban Poison - Blue Kush & Blueberry In Kind

Cool. You want liquid sunflower lecithin (not soy!). And you can add it at any stage. My first batch didn't have any at first. It definitely got better once we added it. I'll try to source the ratio properly for you.

And sorry if I hadn't introduced myself over here yet - thought i had! Been subbed and lurking then...

.
 
Re: 1st Grow - Alaskan Thunderfuck x4 - Durban Poison - Blue Kush & Blueberry In Kind

Amy Gardner said:
Cool. You want liquid sunflower lecithin (not soy!). And you can add it at any stage. My first batch didn't have any at first. It definitely got better once we added it. I'll try to source the ratio properly for you.

And sorry if I hadn't introduced myself over here yet - thought i had! Been subbed and lurking then...

.
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You might have introduced yourself. I see you on many other journals I sub to so I might have mixed them up.....tough to keep track of them!!
 
Re: 1st Grow - Alaskan Thunderfuck x4 - Durban Poison - Blue Kush & Blueberry In Kind

:thumb:
SO the ratio is 1tbsp of liquid sunflower lecithin per cup of oil. As far as I can tell that's same for coconut oil as well as Olive oil, when making for ingestion. You can add the lecithin at any stage, then it requires 24hrs in the fridge to bind with the cannabinoids (i think this is what happens).

Oh here - Dr Zigggy says this about lecithin
DrZiggy said:
lecithin is an emulsifier...

An emulsifier consists of a water-loving hydrophilic head and an oil-loving hydrophobic tail.

-it allows the 'water' side of a molecule to combine with the 'oil' side.

i stopped adding lecithin when making butter etc until i cook with it.
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And then this from KingstonRabbi about why the chilling stage is important. (gee I wish I'd learnt to blog things a lot earlier in my 420mag career! it'd be much easier to find this info when I want to share it!)

KingstonRabbi said:
Bonding occurs during the chilling phase. (Heat is for extraction.) Without the chilling step the lecithin separates back out. It usually takes me 2 or more times chilling and remixing before it stays blended.

As for impatience, there's no reason you can't use a little now. You won't get the full encapsulation until you chill and mix a couple times, but it does make the process more fun. :) :hugs:
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SweetSue is fully across all of this, and always happy to answer questions about it so she can give you more detailed info and tips if you ask her :thumb: There's a reason why the coconut oil is faster acting (and maybe stronger, in the recreational sense) but I can't remember what it is - something about which pathway it is processed through in the body - again, Sue... :Love:

:Namaste:
 
Re: 1st Grow - Alaskan Thunderfuck x4 - Durban Poison - Blue Kush & Blueberry In Kind

Hey Van! Glad to see you put on yer lab coat!! Amy pretty much nailed it... good stuff... I'll just add a few thoughts.

The difficulty it sounds like you had with temps will be mitigated by using the double boiler method. The reason for using canola oil in the lower pan is that it holds temps much better. I turn the heating oil up to about 275 and for at least the first half of the process the temps of the plant material don't get much more than 30 degrees less than the temp of the heating oil.

Your setup in the pic will work as double boiler but Id try to find a more ⭐️ guy sided lower pan with about and inch of space between the bottom and top pan. That way the risk is less that the inner pan can slide around on you and slosh oil out and into the flame. Someone advised using the rings off the top of canning jars that sit in lower pan so inner pan is not in direct contact with bottom of lower pan. This allows for more even transfer of heat with less chance of burning.

The lecithin is about liposomal encapsulation capsulation. A liposome is a spherical thingamajiggy that delivers nutrients and such to the cells. It has a core where water soluble substances are held and has two layer around that shotgun which oil soluble substances are encapsulated. The membrane of the liposome is made from the same stuff as our cell membranes so readlily attaches to the cells. Then the encapsulated cannabinoids in this case can absorb into it attach to the cell receptors. They are using this to make vitamin C more bioavailable.

Lastly, the difference between coconut oil and olive oil is that the former is predominately medium changing fatty acids while the latter is long chain. These are metabolized differently in the liver and are transported differently. Amy is correct in that coconut oil is likely more potent as a carrier oil for recreational use because it is readily metabolized by liver enzymes and the delta 9 THC is converted to delta 11 THC, which is more psychoactive. For medicinal use, not so much because while more psychoactive it becomes less medicinally beneficial.

That's where competitive Inhibition comes in. By keeping liver enzymes busy, more cannabinoids can survive first pass metabolism and reach the receptors. The beauty of fresh harvest oil is that if one uses the least amount of oil possible while still being able to get it all ground into mush, it a powerful oil that has enough carrier oil to overwhelm the liver enzymes and make itself available to the endocannabinoid system. Even so, Its still recommended taking a few T of coconut oil or 100 mg of apigenin a half hour before dosing to ensure an adequate amount of cannabinoids make it thru.

If you'll try to scale your bud to carrier oil ratio from 400g:500ml(or less) it won't require so much to feel it's effects. I used a bit less than 500ml with 400 grams fresh bud and five drops is where I begin feeling it. That's with sunflower lecithin added after oil is made and strained. I reheat the strained oil to 100 degrees add the lecithin and stir u tile well incorporated, and then into fridge. It took two times refrigerating, coming to room temp, stirring really well(or shaken in a mason jar) and back in refer before it no longer conceals and separates. This is when it's fully encapsulated.

Sorry if I've gone over stuff already stated or you already know. Just wanna help any way I can.
 
Re: 1st Grow - Alaskan Thunderfuck x4 - Durban Poison - Blue Kush & Blueberry In Kind

Hey Van! Glad to see you put on yer lab coat!! Amy pretty much nailed it... good stuff... I'll just add a few thoughts.

The difficulty it sounds like you had with temps will be mitigated by using the double boiler method. The reason for using canola oil in the lower pan is that it holds temps much better. I turn heating oil up to about 275 and for at least the first half of process, temps of plant material don't get much more than 30 degrees less than temp of the heating oil. When you really have to be careful is when the water is gone out of plant material, temps will quickly spike.

Decarb can fully take place as long as temps are brought up to 240-250 early in process and held there for an hour. That means on smaller batches one has to be on top of stirring to keep from burning oil or over decarbing and turning THC to CBN, while keeping decarb temp up when water vapor is not present to carry away some of the heat.

Your setup in the pic will work as double boiler but Id try to find a more straight sided lower pan with about and inch of space between the bottom and top pan. That way the risk is less that the inner pan can slide around on you and slosh oil out and into the flame. Someone advised using the rings off the top of canning jars that sit in lower pan so inner pan is not in direct contact with bottom of lower pan. This allows for more even transfer of heat with less chance of burning. Add oil above rings just to point where inner pan begins to float. At that point the weight of the oil and bud will have it sitting on rings while enough oil surrounds bottom of pan to evenly heat material.

The lecithin is about liposomal encapsulation. A liposome is a spherical thingamajiggy that delivers nutrients and such to the cells. It has a core where water soluble substances are held and has two outer layers between which oil soluble substances are encapsulated. The membrane of the liposome is made from the same stuff as our cell membranes so readlily attaches to the cells. Then the encapsulated cannabinoids in this case can absorb into or attach to the cell receptors. They are using this to make vitamin C more bioavailable. They are also using it to infuse water based drinks with cannabis.

Lastly, the difference between coconut oil and olive oil is that the former is predominately medium changing fatty acids while the latter is long chain. These are metabolized differently in the liver and are transported differently. Amy is correct in that coconut oil is likely more potent as a carrier oil for recreational use because it is readily metabolized by liver enzymes and the delta 9 THC is converted to delta 11 THC, which is more psychoactive. For medicinal use, not so much because while more psychoactive it becomes less medicinally beneficial.

That's where competitive Inhibition comes in. By keeping liver enzymes busy, more cannabinoids can survive first pass metabolism and reach the receptors. The beauty of fresh harvest oil is that if one uses the least amount of oil possible while still being able to get it all ground into mush, it a powerful oil that has enough carrier oil to provide busy work for the liver enzymes making more available to the endocannabinoid system. Even so, Its still recommended taking a few T of coconut oil or 100 mg of apigenin a half hour before dosing.

If you'll try to scale your bud to carrier oil ratio proportionate to 400g:500ml(or less) it won't require so much to feel it's effects. Last time I used a bit less than 500ml with 400 grams fresh bud and five drops is where I begin feeling it. That's with sunflower lecithin added after oil is made and strained. I reheat the strained oil to 100 degrees add the lecithin and stir until well incorporated, and then into fridge. It took two times refrigerating, coming to room temp, stirring really well(or shaken in a mason jar) and back in refer before it no longer congeals and separates. This is when it's fully encapsulated.

Sorry if I've gone over stuff already stated or you already know. Just wanna help any way I can. Have fun and good luck!!
 
Re: 1st Grow - Alaskan Thunderfuck x4 - Durban Poison - Blue Kush & Blueberry In Kind

Doobdoc to the rescue!

Thanks for the details and clarification :thanks:


:Namaste:
 
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