Yellowing leaves: Advice before action

[bruno12345]

hi ups

The Proper Way To Water A Potted Plant

The Proper Way to Water a Potted Plant Also covered: the importance of pH and why we successively up-pot How to Water Over the last several years I have put a lot of study into this, and I feel that I can now define the proper way to water a potted plant. Keep in mind that this discussion...

www.420magazine.com

that link may help. if you are using bio-bizz soil - you didn't say - it has enough nutes in the soil for a few weeks. you have to watch the plant like a hawk to see when the soil depletes and the hand off to bottle nutes begin. you will need to use the full set of complimentary nutes. usually 2 - 3 bottles for the base nutes.

autos feed a bit light normally. it doesn't really help you as you've no idea what a regular plant would feed, but at least the idea is there as a reference.




runoff ppm has no relevant info. it's only your inputs that matter.

Well, i disagree with you.
Runoff ppm can SURE have relevant info, i just said above that my soil came from the manufacturer with 2000ppm, when it was supposed to be 350ppm.

How would i discover that if not by runoff PPM?

After i dialed the RUNOFF ppm, the plants started to grow.

The Pour-Through Extraction Procedure: A Nutrient Management Tool for Nursery Crops | NC State Extension Publications

By routinely measuring the electrical conductivity (EC) and pH of growing media and irrigation water for container-grown nursery crops, growers can monitor nutrient availability and scout for problems. Learn how to use the pour-through extraction procedures as part of your nursery's quality...

content.ces.ncsu.edu

Here is a link where you can read more about it, from North Carolina University, and the correct method of extracting it.

 

[bluter]

Well, i disagree with you.
Runoff ppm can SURE have relevant info, i just said above that my soil came from the manufacturer with 2000ppm, when it was supposed to be 350ppm.

i would hope it returned those results or you got royally ripped off.

you don't know what you are measuring.

you aren't measuring what's in the soil. you are measuring what the water picks up on it's way through. that is never an accurate depiction of what your media is actually comprised of.

a slurry test is usually the test done for that information, but you need experience in understanding what the results will tell you. even experienced growers have difficulty with that one.

the only relevant ppm measurement for media is in a dwc or rdwc app, which requires active monitoring. otherwise it's only your inputs that matter. keep them under control and you will have a happy grow.

 

[bruno12345]

i would hope it returned those results or you got royally ripped off.

you don't know what you are measuring.

you aren't measuring what's in the soil. you are measuring what the water picks up on it's way through. that is never an accurate depiction of what your media is actually comprised of.

a slurry test is usually the test done for that information, but you need experience in understanding what the results will tell you. even experienced growers have difficulty with that one.

the only relevant ppm measurement for media is in a dwc or rdwc app, which requires active monitoring. otherwise it's only your inputs that matter. keep them under control and you will have a happy grow

"youre measuring what the water picks up the way through"
Thats why there is a method for it. Read the article man, its an University made article, with scientific references. If you measure the exact moment you water, you are right, but thats NOT the way to do it.

The right way to do it, its to complete saturation of the media, and then pouring small amounts of water an hour later to collect leachate from the perched water in the bottom, after an hour the nutrient solution has stabilized and will give an AVERAGE of nutrients in the container.

"When plants are irrigated, water dissolves salts from fertilizer in the
substrate and these nutrients are carried through the
container to the solution in the perched water table.
When that leachate is measured, it provides an average
reading of the nutrients available to the plant."

Such a simple and UNIVERSITY certificated procedure, and you want to discard it without even presenting evidence that this method is not validated? Like you said, slurry tests are for PROs, with good equipment (and you can only measure top soil).

 

[bluter]

"youre measuring what the water picks up the way through"
Thats why there is a method for it. Read the article man, its an University made article, with scientific references. If you measure the exact moment you water, you are right, but thats NOT the way to do it.

The right way to do it, its to complete saturation of the media, and then pouring small amounts of water an hour later to collect leachate from the perched water in the bottom, after an hour the nutrient solution has stabilized and will give an AVERAGE of nutrients in the container.

"When plants are irrigated, water dissolves salts from fertilizer in the
substrate and these nutrients are carried through the
container to the solution in the perched water table.
When that leachate is measured, it provides an average
reading of the nutrients available to the plant."

Such a simple and UNIVERSITY certificated procedure, and you want to discard it without even presenting evidence that this method is not validated? Like you said, slurry tests are for PROs, with good equipment (and you can only measure top soil).

keep rolling that way second grow. obviously you have it nailed.
first grow was '78.

 

[bruno12345]

keep rolling that way second grow. obviously you have it nailed.
first grow was '78.

No, you do. Sir Master Grower from the Heavens. Much more knowledge than university research.

I presented evidences, if you cant refute them, keep that Master Old Grower tale for you, best for you than me.

Im still on second grow, and lots to learn, thanks.

 

[bluter]

it's ok. roll that attitude around the forum. let everyone know.

in the meantime i won't misdirect others. i'm not refuting what you read. i just have no belief you know what it means or how to apply it.

sticking to growing based on a ppm runoff will not work for nearly any new grower in the majority media available. there are simpler, better approaches, without potential minefields to navigate.

you do you.

 

[bruno12345]

Well you sir went ironic on me, and showed your old grower badge like that meant anything to science.

Well, a Guy who an hour a Go said runoff dont mean anything, Said i dont know what im talking about. Must be a compliment.

I dont grow based on runoff ppm, i Just Said this can help solving nutrient problems in the medium.

Its ok to be wrong, even as a experienced grower, dont hurt your feelings.

Peace.

 

[bluter]

Well you sir went ironic on me, and showed your old grower badge like that meant anything to science.

and you are clinging to something that worked on a hunch and attributing it to something else you professored up on the webs. the two are very likely not connected. but i understand. it is common to see that here.

i am not convinced. not about the article, about how you've applied it.
run off tests are just not anywhere near consistent or useful to the majority of growers in the majority of situations.

Well, a Guy who an hour a Go said runoff dont mean anything,

i said i did not think you knew the approach or how to apply it..
and yes. it super doesn't mean anything. not if you watch your inputs.

there are numerous examples of folk making the same mistake. i had issues chasing it in hempy when i first tried it.
the assumption was hempy was neutral ... guess what .. ? it wasn't. and runoff ppm means nothing in that media. as well as a majority of others.

Must be a compliment.

I dont grow based on runoff ppm, i Just Said this can help solving nutrient problems in the medium.

that is good. the best way to grow is a read on the plants.
a lot depends on your style of grow and media. neither of which are posted here.

just don't extrapolate your experience to other soils and media. it doesn't work that way.
danger lies on that path.

Its ok to be wrong, even as a experienced grower, dont hurt your feelings.

Peace.

you didn't. it's all good.
i'm not the angry sort that way.


edit : should add - i have adhd and often use white space to separate thoughts on my posts. it sometimes does not translate the same. just did not want you read anything too much in to that .. lol

 

[SmokingWings]

I think you both have valid points.

BTW, interesting article. To be honest I did not read it slowly, just skimmed through to see what was there, if it was explained and if it made sense.

Have a great day.....

 

[bruno12345]

I dont know how can you be so certain about things that ive done. You talk like you know my grow, or visited me.

A HUNCH?

My medium was super freaking hot, burned all my plants, Runoff ppm was 2000, what kind of hunch this is?

Let me quote you

runoff ppm has no relevant info. it's only your inputs that matter.

I just showed you runoff ppm matters. Better than that, NCU showed you.

I agree about different mediums can have different outcomes, there are mediums that ppm dont even apply.

The same thing you talked to me, that my positive experience cant be extrapolated to all growers, your negative experience cant be extrapolated to all growers.

Runoff PPM CAN SURELY have relevant info, and can surely help a grower to know if salts have accumulated in the medium (when coupled with plants signals) . With an extra, its easy to do, even for beginners.

Take Ups for example, he doesnt know what his inputs are, how can you say runoff ppm doesnt matter to him if his plants are showing signs of overfertilization and he doesnt know how much he has done wrong?

 

[bluter]

but i didn't have a negative experience...
wait.. it get it. i treated it as straight hydro, instead of coco, soils etc.

but yes. as soon as i ignored output the same as any media besides dwc or rdwc , and focused on inputs, it was all good.


i forgot my basics and chased output ppm. you are correct. that was wrong.

 

[Ups]

Guys,

we’re not here to argue. Please take it somewhere else. As much as I love the activity on one of my posts, these aren’t the most enjoyable things to read hahaha so please, with respect, either cool it, or channel that energy into my plant so she grows as passionately as you both are <3

cheers

 

[Ups]

@bluter
BTW thanks for the input! I am using biobizz all mix, but mixed with a leftover generic soil that I wanted to finish. I guess it should have enough nutes to finish the grow.. should I just let her go as she is? I don’t have any other nutrients for the moment to help the roots.. and I was wondering if I should train her a bit? I’m getting more flowers coming up underneath, but they’re a bit in the shade.
Thanks again!

 

[bluter]

watch them close. biobizz all mix is their most heavily nuted soil, but rarely has enough in it to get them to the finish. being an auto all bets are off, but i'd be ready with nutes at 1/4 to 1/2 strength, just as a jump off point. you might be able to ramp nutes quick as they are an organic base. let the plant decide.

all mix will not work for seedlings as it is too hot. if you were burning your seedlings up that could be why.

it's hard to tell just when they are going to need it. plants nutritional needs change in flower. it will be looking for less N, and a little more P and K soon. it's hard to know what you have left in the soil, and if it's in balance. biobizz soil is not designed to get most plants to the end.

biobizz is a good system but a pile of growers have issues with it. it works a little different than most mixes, and seems to be best when paired with their nute line. it takes getting used to. the issue i have with it is the nutes and soils tie you to their system.

you can tuck some of the fans to expose the lower buds for a bit better development.. i would leave training out of it. autos are a touch more finicky, and any training needs done early in veg.


you're looking really good so far, especially for a first grow.

 

[Ups]

Hey @bluter,

thanks for the info! I wasn’t aware that it was a difficult to use soil mix, despite my research, I hadn’t found any complaints or negative comments. What do you recommend? I’ve got a 50L bag to finish but I’ll cut it for my next seedlings. So far this plant hasn’t even had any of the all mix till just recently when I up potted.
My first seedlings were never planted in it either, but it’s good to know as I figure now it’s a good idea to cut it with the other generic organic soil I have. I’m more suspicious of my watering technique for the young seedlings. I find I water them little but often. And even when I tried watering lots and less often the soil seemed to dry up really fast.
In some cases I may have over watered, in other cases I may have under watered.. but I’ve tried many times and for this to be the only plant to have succeeded past seedling, my best guess was the N content... but even then I’m not so sure. How do you get past the seedling phase?
Cheers

 

[bluter]

Hey @bluter,

thanks for the info! I wasn’t aware that it was a difficult to use soil mix, despite my research, I hadn’t found any complaints or negative comments. What do you recommend? I’ve got a 50L bag to finish but I’ll cut it for my next seedlings. So far this plant hasn’t even had any of the all mix till just recently when I up potted.
My first seedlings were never planted in it either, but it’s good to know as I figure now it’s a good idea to cut it with the other generic organic soil I have. I’m more suspicious of my watering technique for the young seedlings. I find I water them little but often. And even when I tried watering lots and less often the soil seemed to dry up really fast.
In some cases I may have over watered, in other cases I may have under watered.. but I’ve tried many times and for this to be the only plant to have succeeded past seedling, my best guess was the N content... but even then I’m not so sure. How do you get past the seedling phase?
Cheers

don't use a heavy nuted soil for seedlings you will kill them every time.

it's easier on first time growers to use an hp promix or other non nuted neutral soil for the entire grow.
a neutral soil puts you in control from the get go. you have to provide all the inputs.

a nuted or partially nuted soil is a gigantic question mark. the only thing you know for sure is it will fail at some point in the grow. then it is up to you to decide what is missing and what the plant needs. it's great if you have loads of experience. it can be a massive nightmare if you've never done it before.

the only thing you can do now is wait and hope. make sure you have a full set of nutes and cal-mag handy.

 

[Ups]

Hey guys,

got another little update on the on going flowering process.
Flowers are developing alright, definitely humble beginnings but I’ll be happy if at least one of these buds come out smokable.
got some discoloration on the leaves. Haven’t watered since the transplant and it has taken up the Rh in the room to about 70% max. Temp is constant around 19C and I’m taking care of the extra humidity.
What are your thoughts? Always appreciate the input, so thanks for whatever you can add!

 

[bruno12345]

Hey guys,

got another little update on the on going flowering process.
Flowers are developing alright, definitely humble beginnings but I’ll be happy if at least one of these buds come out smokable.
got some discoloration on the leaves. Haven’t watered since the transplant and it has taken up the Rh in the room to about 70% max. Temp is constant around 19C and I’m taking care of the extra humidity.
What are your thoughts? Always appreciate the input, so thanks for whatever you can add!

Hey Ups, how you doing? Youll sure have a beautiful fat bud very soon.

I would get your temperatures with lights on if possible to at least 25C, and Maximum 30C.
More than 30C youre probably loosing yield because of transpiration, and less than 25C you are also loosing yield because of slowing metabolism.

You can also study VPD, the relation between humidity and temperature. VPD Chart can help you maintaining good levels of both of these indicators.

 

[Ups]

Hey my man @bruno12345
Always with a quick and reassuring response, thanks bro!
I’ll look into the VPD chart and learn all that I can. I definitely agree that it should be a bit hotter in there, so I’m adding a little extra heat. It seems that the big pot adds a lot of humidity and thus also lowers the temp of my space by quite a bit.. too bad I didn’t realize she was going into flower before up-potting, could have saved myself the trouble.
nothing to be too worried about tho I suppose by the way her leaves look? Freaks me out when I see it, but mainly because I just can’t imagine losing this grow after getting this far... and I cannot lie, a man needs a toke and she’s all I have in store. The pressure is real

Fun times tho!

 

[bruno12345]

Cant be sure about the leaves, to me they look kinda healthy, despite the burned tips and marks, maybe someone can give us a hint about them.

Anyway, i wouldnt worry too much if you are not seeing progression into a worst state.

Just try to give them a little more heat, and your relative humidity will instantly lower.

The name relative humidity it is because its relative to temperature. The more heat, more humidity air can hold, and so the percentage of RH lowers.

Then at 25C youll probably be in a good temperature and humidity level.