Xlr8's "Flo N Gro" Hydro Multiple Strains 2011

[Mr. Krip]

My general thought on nutes is that, even though some growers will try to push the plant to the point of burn, the plant is only going to uptake what it wants/needs and any more is either a waste, or if too much more, can be detrimental to the plant.

Here's couple of points worthy to note:

- You can generally run lower PPM's with hydro because the plants are constantly being fed. With soil, you need to "charge" the soil at a higher PPM since you'll water less frequently.

- If you change your res more frequently, you can run lower PPM's since you'll be mainting closer to a consistant level and need to worry less about depletion of certain elements over time.

 

[Xlr8]

My general thought on nutes is that, even though some growers will try to push the plant to the point of burn, the plant is only going to uptake what it wants/needs and any more is either a waste, or if too much more, can be detrimental to the plant.

Here's couple of points worthy to note:

- You can generally run lower PPM's with hydro because the plants are constantly being fed. With soil, you need to "charge" the soil at a higher PPM since you'll water less frequently.

- If you change your res more frequently, you can run lower PPM's since you'll be mainting closer to a consistant level and need to worry less about depletion of certain elements over time.

Great points Mr. Krip -- I think a larger reservoir size makes a difference, too. Seems like it's less likely to be "cherry picked" and depleted of certain nutients prematurely - at least in my experience so far.

For example: Say somebody has two plants, one supplied with a 2 gallon reservoir of it's own, the other with a 40 gallon reservoir of it's own. Both initially given a nutrient solution of 1000ppm. If measured a few days later, there may be wild fluctuation of the PPM on the 2 gallon, but likely negligible on the 40 gallon. This is clearly in line with your comment about "constantly being fed". A larger reservoir in relation to number/size of plants can probably get by with a lower total PPM, as it's less likely to be cherry picked to the point of deficiency. Note, this is my own theory based on my own observations. If I've got something wrong here somehow, someone feel free to correct me.

There are so many factors to consider!

 

[Xlr8]

Hehehe, do I sense a Sativa Convert?

By the way, check my Maternity Ward! I brought a new one home today I rarely see in my part of the world. Seed, clone, or flower, this is one that I am proud to add to the collection. Still looking for the Purple Kush, though......

Congrats on the Plushberry, Bro!

 

[Xlr8]

Props. I think lowering the ppm is good. I'm thrilled with much lower ppm and results thus far after learning about conversion factors and such.

Cool - there is a lot to consider, but I've typically run on the lean side with my nutrients in comparison to recommendations. I've also pushed it a couple of times (unjournaled) for my own curiousity.

For example, I've run PPM's nearly twice as high when I ran Dutch Master line to satisfy my own curiousity as to what would happen/what I might gain by using HIGHER ppms, etc. (You should have seen the stems bulge!)

Now, I'm trying the reverse somewhat - until/unless I see issues by doing so.

Lots to worry about when you push the upper limit, specifically a price to pay if they take up too much water and you aren't diligent about topping off.

 

[Mr Smith]

Thank you for the info. I am going to need time and sleep to fully process this and then try to give a ideal of what I try to to. Maybeyou can help me out with conversion factors though. I use the hanna black ph ec meter. I have done grows at low ppm and I can tell ya the effects on them also. Its funny, I recently smoked a fat ass blunt of some awesome kush with 2 friends then came home imediately to get on the new comp I just purchased and see you anwered my post makes me want to post right away but I am just too tired to post that type of detailed info so I tell you this in this long run on sentence that I owe you a detailed post about how I do the nute thangamajiggy.
Stay cool,
stay high,
don't drool,
don't ---- (brain fart)

 

[jandre2k3]

Thank you for the info. I am going to need time and sleep to fully process this and then try to give a ideal of what I try to to. Maybeyou can help me out with conversion factors though. I use the hanna black ph ec meter. I have done grows at low ppm and I can tell ya the effects on them also. Its funny, I recently smoked a fat ass blunt of some awesome kush with 2 friends then came home imediately to get on the new comp I just purchased and see you anwered my post makes me want to post right away but I am just too tired to post that type of detailed info so I tell you this in this long run on sentence that I owe you a detailed post about how I do the nute thangamajiggy.
Stay cool,
stay high,
don't drool,
don't ---- (brain fart)

lol! Don't brain fart? I do that all the time! lol!

 

[Xlr8]

Aberration posted this in his excellent journal:

Aberration goes Ker Bloom! - Perpetual

I really thought this was a fantastic tip as far as how to use a little math to help calculate how much water to add in order to bring down nutrient strength to a specific PPM level, for example.

If you find this valuable, hit up his journal and give him some reps - I did! I highly recommend checking out the entire post and his journal (linked above).

I mixed up a boosted bloom feed, and it came out hotter than I wanted. I needed to dilute it down. Here's my take on dilution.

If you know how much liquid you have (I had 5 gallons) and the current ppm (mine was 1270) you can find out how much water you need to add to reach a specific ppm by dilution, or what ppm you will get if you dilute with a given amount of water. Of course this assumes low ppm water. Mine comes in at 110 out of the tap, so it's close enough to zero.

If I know what ppm I want to end up with, I can use this:

x = (p * v)/y

where:

v = starting volume
p = starting ppm
x = new volume
y = new ppm

If I want to know what the new ppm will be if I add a specific amount of water, I use this instead:

y = (p * v)/x

So I had 5 gallons of mixed food at 1270 ppm and I wanted something closer to 1150 ppm. How much water do I add?

x = (p * v)/y = (1270 * 5)/1150 = 5.52 gallons

Remember that 5.52 gallons is the new volume which includes the starting volume. So that means I have to add 0.52 gallons, or just a hair over 1/2 of a gallon.

If I wanted to know what ppm I would have gotten if I added 1/2 gallon to the original 5 gallons, I could have done this:

y = (p * v)/x = (1270 * 5)/5.5 = 1155 ppm

(remember that y = 5.5 gallons: x = v + added volume)

In fact, after I added 1/2 gallon exactly, I got 1160 ppm. Right on the money, really. The difference was due to the natural ppm of the water I added. I could add that in to the calculation, but then it gets a lot more complicated and it's probably within the range of natural variation in the strength of a batch anyway. It's nearly impossible to get exact measured amounts with measuring spoons/cups anyway. So this works for me. It always puts me in the ballpark.

As for units, use whatever. You don't have to use my ppm scale. You can use whichever, even EC values. You just have to use the same scale for both ppm values. The same for units of volume. You can use gallons, teaspoons, garbage cans, buckets or whatever as long as you use the same units always.

 

[Xlr8]

One other note, I've included Aberration's dilution equation post from above, as well as several other tips/ideas that I feel are of specific value or interest in my blog here:

Xlr8's Blog

I also have blog posts with tips for making your own Clearex (thanks Golden Goose), homemade root "Zone" formula (thanks Blue Planet nutrients), understanding PH, PPM's, etc.

I realize people don't use the blogs here much, but there is great information in many of them by many members - a bit of a hidden resource so to speak.

Hope everyone is having a great weekend.

 

[Alaskan1]

Xlr8, I have read a lot of your posts and you're pretty damn knowledgeable! If you have a chance I have a question for you on your Flo n Gro review. I also will be reading up more on this post as I'm getting slight signs of nute burn even though I backed off the nutes a bit. Just bought a Hanna PH/PPM meter so need to go back and read more of this post.
Thanks for all the help you give to everyone on this forum

 

[Xlr8]

Xlr8, I have read a lot of your posts and you're pretty damn knowledgeable! If you have a chance I have a question for you on your Flo n Gro review. I also will be reading up more on this post as I'm getting slight signs of nute burn even though I backed off the nutes a bit. Just bought a Hanna PH/PPM meter so need to go back and read more of this post.
Thanks for all the help you give to everyone on this forum

Hi Alaskan -

First, I'm really sorry for missing your post on that thread. I just posted a reply that I hope helps with your questions, but please feel free to ask anything or let me know if it left anything unclear.

Titan Controls: Flo N Gro Review

Second, for the kind words! I am sincere in wanting to help people out if I can, so that means a lot to me. I'm not really that knowledgeable, but I do try to only post information that I believe to be accurate or that I'm confident in/tried myself. But... I still have much to learn!

Here is a good link that has some valuable tips on flood times, etc. - I found it helpful when I started with the Flo N Gro:

Need help with Ebb and Grow bucket system

Members like Munki and Mr Smith have a lot of great experience with this type of system. Pitviper as well. Oh, and Magic Beans has a Flo N Gro - not sure if you've seen his journals. and let me know how things go!

You'll love the Flo N Gro - it is a easy and effective way to grow, and I like it even more than I thought I would. You should consider starting a journal - I'm sure you'd get a lot of help/support along the way, and it can really speed up your learning curve to have experienced people follow along. I'd follow!

 

[Alaskan1]

Thanks for the tips!
I may try a journal at some point and time but right now would NOT be it lol I have been battling root rot and spider mites. My flower phase is a month overdue to battling these issues. I'm currently in the middle of my first grow using 5 gal bubber buckets. Started off with 4 plants. 2 head cheese, 1 urban poison and one blueberry. Blueberry and urban never did recover from the root rot and had to be tossed. The head cheese is growing new WHITE roots and the spider mites are gone.
Learned a lot through the first grow......like lugging 5 gallons of nute water is a pain in the ass, hence the Flow n Gro

 

[Xlr8]

Thanks for the tips!
I may try a journal at some point and time but right now would NOT be it lol I have been battling root rot and spider mites. My flower phase is a month overdue to battling these issues. I'm currently in the middle of my first grow using 5 gal bubber buckets. Started off with 4 plants. 2 head cheese, 1 urban poison and one blueberry. Blueberry and urban never did recover from the root rot and had to be tossed. The head cheese is growing new WHITE roots and the spider mites are gone.
Learned a lot through the first grow......like lugging 5 gallons of nute water is a pain in the ass, hence the Flow n Gro

There is a product by Dutch Master called "Zone" which is a great product for root rot issues. But, it's no substitute for a cool root zone with enough DO (dissolved oxygen). If you have fixed the "cause" of the root issue, a product like "Zone" can help keep things in order, and bring your plants back to a happy place.

Honestly, I thought Blueberry is a bit over-rated. I think it's primary value would be related to breeding purposes. It's got great flavor, but pretty weak potency. The Skywalker I just grew was an attempt by DJ Short to improve on the Blueberry in terms of yield, potency and vigor, while maintaining the flavor. It only loses the pretty coloring. It was a much better plant than the Blueberry I grew, and tasted more blueberry as well. Just didn't look purple.

Snow White is a nice strain for someone new or getting back into growing. Very stable, disease resistant, consistent, size manageable plant. Really hard to screw up as it's just plain hardy and vigorous.

I still think a journal is a great way to go - people love to help, especially if there are issues to troubleshoot/brainstorm. Journals where things just run smooth are kinda boring anyway - true story! I get it if you don't want to do it - no pressure there from me. But, it would really help you get things figured out faster.

Besides, now I'm hooked and want to see how things work out for you. At least keep me posted somehow! You can always post here with questions/pictures as long as I have the thread open - or the Flo N Gro review thread. I'll keep me eyes peeled.

 

[Alaskan1]

I actually have rooted clones that will be going into the Flo n Gro in a week or so, Peanut butter kush, AK47, urban poison, lemon kush, hawaiian big bud, joe, god bud, head cheese and of course the blueberry. Kinda worried about putting the bluberry clones into the flo n gro system though because we took the clones while it had root rot and we still haven't figured out why it got that in the first place. My best guess I kept the water level tooooooo high! Then again if it is due to genetics I don't want to take the chance of my new crop getting it.
I used H202 to get the root rot to slowly go away. I will be using it in smaller doses as a preventitive in future grows.
I am also switching from Advanced Nutrients to BC, BC is just more cost effective and I have heard nothing but good things about it.

 

[Xlr8]

I actually have rooted clones that will be going into the Flo n Gro in a week or so, Peanut butter kush, AK47, urban poison, lemon kush, hawaiian big bud, joe, god bud, head cheese and of course the blueberry. Kinda worried about putting the bluberry clones into the flo n gro system though because we took the clones while it had root rot and we still haven't figured out why it got that in the first place. My best guess I kept the water level tooooooo high! Then again if it is due to genetics I don't want to take the chance of my new crop getting it.
I used H202 to get the root rot to slowly go away. I will be using it in smaller doses as a preventitive in future grows.
I am also switching from Advanced Nutrients to BC, BC is just more cost effective and I have heard nothing but good things about it.

Consider switching to Blue Planet nutrients if you haven't already invested in the BC. They are an excellent sponsor here with a good product and unparalelled service. Best part, is the price is also very good compared to other products. Many of the growers here are using it with much success. For the money, they're nutes are fantastic. Corey, the owner, frequents this and many of the threads here and often advises people on the use of his product and follows many of the grows here with his product. Hows that for service?! Don't get me wrong, the BC is probably a great product. Just wanted to throw that out there if you hadn't invested in the BC yet.

I don't think the rot would be due to genetics. I honestly don't know if your clone would be any more susceptible since it came from a plant with root rot, unless the rot wasn't yet present - then I'm sure you'd be fine. I didn't mean to be a buzzkill on the Blueberry, it has great flavor and many fans - mine was just a bit weak and light yielding, but that may have been more my specific plant.

Those strains you have sound great - I really hope you change your mind about journaling eventually.

 

[Xlr8]

Thought I'd enter NOTM again. Maybe I should have entered Chocolope, but I'm hoping the second pic with a better close-up of my Lavender helps represent it better. We'll see.

Thought I'd give my Soma "Lavender" another shot at NOTM - Beautiful, high yielding Indica dom plant.

Taste/Smell: Mostly fresh flowers or... lavender. An appropriate name. Seemed a little more grape early in the cure, but mostly fresh flowers now. Reminds me quite a bit of Purple Urkle I've had. Very yummy weed.

High: Strong indica high. A little spacey at the start, but settles into couch lock and will flat knock me out in short order. This is our bedtime bud, and is best not vaped/smoked if you plan on doing anything with your day. Really makes me melt and not care about anything. It's a knockout punch at the end.

Overall: This plant produced giant buds and is a spectacular indica. Mine didn't purple much, but it sure had pretty buds. I love this at the end of a long day, and feel at ease with the world after vaping it. Many nugs on the plant were the size of pine cones even after drying - some only fit in the large wide mouth Mason jars lengthwise.

Soma -- Lavender:

to all those who've entered!

 

[Mr. Krip]

I actually have rooted clones that will be going into the Flo n Gro in a week or so, Peanut butter kush, AK47, urban poison, lemon kush, hawaiian big bud, joe, god bud, head cheese and of course the blueberry. Kinda worried about putting the bluberry clones into the flo n gro system though because we took the clones while it had root rot and we still haven't figured out why it got that in the first place. My best guess I kept the water level tooooooo high! Then again if it is due to genetics I don't want to take the chance of my new crop getting it.
I used H202 to get the root rot to slowly go away. I will be using it in smaller doses as a preventitive in future grows.
I am also switching from Advanced Nutrients to BC, BC is just more cost effective and I have heard nothing but good things about it.

Consider switching to Blue Planet nutrients if you haven't already invested in the BC. They are an excellent sponsor here with a good product and unparalelled service. Best part, is the price is also very good compared to other products. Many of the growers here are using it with much success. For the money, they're nutes are fantastic. Corey, the owner, frequents this and many of the threads here and often advises people on the use of his product and follows many of the grows here with his product. Hows that for service?! Don't get me wrong, the BC is probably a great product. Just wanted to throw that out there if you hadn't invested in the BC yet.

I don't think the rot would be due to genetics. I honestly don't know if your clone would be any more susceptible since it came from a plant with root rot, unless the rot wasn't yet present - then I'm sure you'd be fine. I didn't mean to be a buzzkill on the Blueberry, it has great flavor and many fans - mine was just a bit weak and light yielding, but that may have been more my specific plant.

Those strains you have sound great - I really hope you change your mind about journaling eventually.

Just a few things to add to the conversation:

1) I second the endorsement of BOTH DM Zone for root health, and Corey as a sponsor (although, I'm sure you get many 420'ers vouching for Corey). He's not only knowledgeable on his product, but he's extremely knowledgeable of both botany and chemistry and has contributed more to this community than I've personally seen with ANY other sponsor, and possibly all others combined! And, if your primary reason for switching is cost, you should check out his prices!

2) I don't believe pythium is "genetic" but I do believe it is "systemic" and can be passed on to cuttings if the mom is infected.

3) DM Zone can be used in conjunction with H2O2

 

[Xlr8]

Just a few things to add to the conversation:

1) I second the endorsement of BOTH DM Zone for root health, and Corey as a sponsor (although, I'm sure you get many 420'ers vouching for Corey). He's not only knowledgeable on his product, but he's extremely knowledgeable of both botany and chemistry and has contributed more to this community than I've personally seen with ANY other sponsor, and possibly all others combined!

2) I don't believe pythium is "genetic" but I do believe it is "systemic" and can be passed on to cuttings if the mom is infected.

3) DM Zone can be used in conjunction with H2O2

Thanks for adding that Mr. Krip! I almost wrote the exact sentence in your second point, but don't have enough cloning experience to back that up knowledgeably/sufficiently, so I appreciate you weighing in.

 

[Alaskan1]

Thank you both for the advice. Since we don't know for sure on the blueberry I'm going to put 2 bubbler buckets in with the flo n gro new grow and see how they do. That way they are seperate from one system and will be very difficult to infect the other. I hope!
I actually have gone to BC for a few reasons. The Hydro shop I frequent carries them and is very knowledgeable with the product. I buy a lot of stuff there and I get it at a pretty decent price from the research I have done. If for some reason I need nutes right now they are down the street and I don't have to order it. I also have a ton of BC nutes to start the new grow.
Once I have my 3rd tent set up I may try those nutes. I'm always willing to try new things just to see how they work. I'm a mechanic by trade and am always tinkering.

After a lot of thought I'm going to go ahead and do a blog. ( I can hear Xlr8 jumping up and down) will start off with my built tent and putting the flo n gro together and start from there.

 

[Xlr8]

Thank you both for the advice. Since we don't know for sure on the blueberry I'm going to put 2 bubbler buckets in with the flo n gro new grow and see how they do. That way they are seperate from one system and will be very difficult to infect the other. I hope!
I actually have gone to BC for a few reasons. The Hydro shop I frequent carries them and is very knowledgeable with the product. I buy a lot of stuff there and I get it at a pretty decent price from the research I have done. If for some reason I need nutes right now they are down the street and I don't have to order it. I also have a ton of BC nutes to start the new grow.
Once I have my 3rd tent set up I may try those nutes. I'm always willing to try new things just to see how they work. I'm a mechanic by trade and am always tinkering.

After a lot of thought I'm going to go ahead and do a blog. ( I can hear Xlr8 jumping up and down) will start off with my built tent and putting the flo n gro together and start from there.

Cool on the journal, I'm sure the BC is probably a fine product. Just wanted to throw that out there, because Blue Planet nutes are a great value and product and I wasn't sure if you'd invested in the BC yet.

One tip on the Flo N Gro - once you get it set-up, run it without plants in it a time or two so that you make sure it's working right, and make note of how high the water fills in relation to the inner net pot. You'll want to make sure that the flood cycle doesn't fill higher than the top of your hydroton/base of the stem on the plant.

For mine, I've found that the level the plants should be at is roughly the top of where the netpot slots end - a couple inches or so below the top. If that makes sense. I made note of the flood height by making a mark with a silver marker on the inside of the net-pot.

Also, in my "test" runs I noted how long it took to fill and drain. You want to make sure they all fill within 15 minutes or you'll have to adjust your flood time, but I doubt you'd have an issue with this. They only need to be flooded long enough to fill all the way - the duration the roots are exposed to the nutrients can be very brief, so 15 minutes should be plenty as long as they are fully flooded/filled in that time frame, prior to draining back to the reservoir. I believe mine floods all the way in about 5 minutes or so.

If you have the whole kit from Titan, they should have that siphon hole already there that we discussed, but you'll know to watch out for it, and make sure it's not covered. Another reason for a test run or two, though...

Let me know when you get the journal started so I can follow along.

 

[Alaskan1]

You have been notified.............the journal has begun!