Xlr8's "Flo N Gro" Hydro Multiple Strains 2011

[Xlr8]

Well, as promised, here's what I've got going on right now. These are not feminized, so I won't be flowering all of these plants to the end. Depending on the male count, and some other factors I'd like to flower 3 - 4 females max. These will be topped soon ala UBT (Uncle Ben's Topping) to promote 4 primary colas/tops per plant. Ideally, I'll keep a couple of clones from the topping and move them to my veg space. Since I'm taking some clones, I'm not afraid to cull a couple of females if I get a higher female/male ratio

I have a net that I may use eventually, not really a SOG screen, but it should help with training/bending.

All of the seedlings started off perfectly healthy and have transitioned to veg nicely. However, for some reason the OG Kush has been pushing out the craziest scraggly deformed leaves as it's starting to veg. All of the other plants are vegging with perfect health so far, and aside from the deformed leaves, the OG seems to be developing somewhat 'normally'. Since it doesn't seem to be environment or diet (the Deadhead OG right next to it is picture perfect, as are the rest of the plants with it) all I can think of is that I may have damaged something in roots during transplant, or genetics (it's from Reserva Privada)? I welcome suggestions on that one (or anything else!)...

The Jack the Ripper that's in second to last picture, is really developing nicely. It's stacking nodes fairly tight, and compact, and just looks happy. I hope she's a she. Hell, they all look good, but I really like her symmetry and compact node structure so far. The other JTR seems stretchy, and the rest fall between.

In these photos: (2) Jack the Ripper, (2) Pandora's Box, (1) Deadhead OG, (1) OG Kush:

Jan 18th

Jan 28th

Feb 1st

Left to right, top: OG Kush, Deadhead OG, Pandora's Box -- Bottom: Jack the Ripper, Jack the Ripper, Pandora's Box

Nice looking Jack the Ripper, Feb 1st:

Screwed up looking OG Kush, Feb 1st:

 

[Xlr8]

Around the forums here, and any MMJ forums, people throw around "PPM (Pars Per Million)" quite a bit, but I'm not sure everyone realizes that PPM's are not standardized. An Oakton meter and a Hanna meter used to measure the same nutrient solution would report different PPM readings, for example. EC (Electrical Conductivity) is the only truly "universal" measurement standard for total disolved solids, and the PPM readings our meters give us convert that, using a math formula, to PPM's. The problem is that Hanna uses ".5" as the conversion factor, Oakton uses ".7" etc....

This chart sums it up well:

The reason I bring this up, is that I plan on running my plants at much lower PPM/EC levels than I used to, and I plan on continuing this into flower. My plants above are currently vegging at .7 EC, or 490 ppm on my Oakton meter. They are showing no signs of deficiency and are growing rapidly.

There is a grower named Heath Robinson who grows single-plant/trees yielding 40z plus per plant, indoors in hydro, using no higher than 1.2 EC in bloom. You read that right, all of it, and no I didn't mean 40 grams. This is my inspiration to run lower PPM's/EC, as I think he's more than proved his point. I took a first step in my last grow, where I rarely went above 1000 ppm on my Oakton meter, or about 750ppm on a Hanna/ 1.5 EC.

All plants are different, and have different feeding needs, so I'll need to watch my plants closely and adjust. What works for others in their environment doesn't always translate...

Sorry if this was boring, but I thought maybe someone would find all this useful -- it's what's occupying my mind at the moment!

I should note that in order to grow plants like that 40z monster, you need much more light than I have! Heath's experiences tell me that nutrient concentration is very secondary to lots and lots of light!!!

If you are interested in seeing a plant like that, Mr. Smith is growing an indoor hydro TREE out of his Dark Star mother that should easily win POTM when he enters it. Check out his excellent Dark Star thread if you get a moment:

DarkStar Project - Advanced Growing

 

[Xlr8]

Hey, Bro! Glad you're doing better and I look forward to your new journal. FYI...stay away from the Bushmaster. It's got bad stuff in it and it's not good for MMJ, although, it does work for keeping the plant short, it's just not healthy.

I've been reading up on it, sounds like it could be an issue as you mention. Will steer clear of it, thanks for the recommendation and looking out for me!

 

[Bassman59]

Well said on the meter/ec Xlr8. very important. I'd +reps ya but have to spread some around!

 

[Xlr8]

Well said on the meter/ec Xlr8. very important. I'd +reps ya but have to spread some around!

Bassman, it's the thought that counts!

 

[GodSpeed]

Nice girls X i got a OG Kush growing in veg at the moment same genetics, hope yours pull out of her phase and grows nice and strong, my white rhino had that same issue with her leaves even after taking a cutting and growing it out she still produces deformed leaves has me clueless! Thanks for the info on the PPM my meter reads EC and never run above 1.8 in full strength flower, will be copying this post to my note pad, subb'd for more extreme gardening!

 

[Xlr8]

Nice girls X i got a OG Kush growing in veg at the moment same genetics, hope yours pull out of her phase and grows nice and strong, my white rhino had that same issue with her leaves even after taking a cutting and growing it out she still produces deformed leaves has me clueless! Thanks for the info on the PPM my meter reads EC and never run above 1.8 in full strength flower, will be copying this post to my note pad, subb'd for more extreme gardening!

Thanks brotha! Congrats on winning MOTM by the way, it was well deserved. You got my vote without hesitation, though there were a lot of deserving members up for it.

PPM's/EC are confusing to newer growers sometimes - it was for me initially. I hear people ask, "what are your PPMs" and I think, "that depends on the meter"! Seems like EC is probably more frequently used outside the U.S. Silly that the different meter manufacturers use different math when converting that to PPM's.

 

[GodSpeed]

Thank you buddy 420 community is growing with some great members hopefully there should be more getting involved over time.

Just check my meter and the instructions has a conversion on it seems what I have in my notes for conversion are wrong, what I though was 800ppm is actualy more, I don't like to push the nutrients to hard so I guess that's why I havnt had problems with over feeding but for someone who likes to push there feed to the limit it could of been fatal.

Thanks again bro.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Thanks brotha! Congrats on winning MOTM by the way, it was well deserved. You got my vote without hesitation, though there were a lot of deserving members up for it.

PPM's/EC are confusing to newer growers sometimes - it was for me initially. I hear people ask, "what are your PPMs" and I think, "that depends on the meter"! Seems like EC is probably more frequently used outside the U.S. Silly that the different meter manufacturers use different math when converting that to PPM's.

Brilliant minds think alike, Bro!

I recently posted that exact chart with an explanation on JZ's thread that sparked quite a discussion, starting here:

JZ's Shootout: Part Deux

The conversion factor is actually based on region. For USA it's 500, European is 640, and Australian is 700. EC is the only "universal" measurement and all the PPM readings are converted from EC to begin with!

 

[jandre2k3]

Hello, friend. On one hand, this comes as a surprise, and on the other, it is very much not. I knew you would be growing still, but I thought you were taking a break. I'm not bitching by any means, I just don't want you to feel obligated to chronicle your grow if it is too much right now. We will all understand if you need a break from keeping up regular posts and pics and such.

Okay, brotherly love over.

Lookin' good so far, man! I had the wrinkles on one of mine but it seemed to grow out of it in a week. I'd keep an eye on it though.

 

[sqwheels]

Hi X,

You were reading my mind...about the ec/ppm stuff...I was in on that conversation in JZ's journal...Mr.K is actually the one that got me going on this, with the chart he posted, a dupe of the one you posted. I'm new and don't/didn't know anything about water/nutes, ec/ppm's etc...

Lately, I've basically been doing the same thing...lower nutes, and not so wet, I'm only watering every other day right now.

Here's my basic ??'s now...what's the best ec level? Mr K said to divide whatever my ppm's are by 500 (for my meter) that gives ec value. Ok, if that's the case anything over 1000 is a 2.0 ec, that's sounds excessive, I've never seen this high of an ec recommended for any stage, even late in flower. But so many growers say to feed as much as 1300ppm. What gives

 

[Mr. Krip]

Hi X,

You were reading my mind...about the ec/ppm stuff...I was in on that conversation in JZ's journal...Mr.K is actually the one that got me going on this, with the chart he posted, a dupe of the one you posted. I'm new and don't/didn't know anything about water/nutes, ec/ppm's etc...

Lately, I've basically been doing the same thing...lower nutes, and not so wet, I'm only watering every other day right now.

Here's my basic ??'s now...what's the best ec level? Mr K said to divide whatever my ppm's are by 500 (for my meter) that gives ec value. Ok, if that's the case anything over 1000 is a 2.0 ec, that's sounds excessive, I've never seen this high of an ec recommended for any stage, even late in flower. But so many growers say to feed as much as 1300ppm. What gives

I also never feed above 1,000 PPM (500 conversion). But, remember, 1300 PPM on a 700 conversion meter is 928 PPM on a 500 conversion meter:

1300 PPM/700 = 1.86 EC (rounded up)
1.86 EC * 500 = 930 PPM on a 500 conversion meter

There is no "best" EC level since each strain/pheno will have it's own unique nute requirements at each stage of growth. As growers, we try to find the "sweet spot" for each of our plants, then adjust the EC according to what the plant needs at that time.

Younger, less mature plants, will require less nutes (less EC). As the plant matures, it requires more.

As a general rule, you're raising the EC/PPM's all through the grow, up to three weeks before the flush. Then, start lowering PPM's for two weeks (preparing for flush), and then, flush in the final week.

During that time, my PPM's range from about 400 PPM to about 1,000 PPM (again, 500 conversion).

 

[Xlr8]

Brilliant minds think alike, Bro!

I recently posted that exact chart with an explanation on JZ's thread that sparked quite a discussion, starting here:

JZ's Shootout: Part Deux

The conversion factor is actually based on region. For USA it's 500, European is 640, and Australian is 700. EC is the only "universal" measurement and all the PPM readings are converted from EC to begin with!

Ha, and I missed that conversation, oops! I didn't realize I was posting something you'd just talked about. I don't remember where I found that chart, but it is pretty handy.

As far as the regions, that's interesting. Though it isn't listed in the chart I posted, Oakton meters come standard at .7 conversion. Maybe they're based in Australia? Mine has a setting where you can set a custom conversion percent, but it is set at the factory to .7. I switched it to .5 for one grow, but was confused the whole grow so I went back to .7, haha.

Thank you buddy 420 community is growing with some great members hopefully there should be more getting involved over time.

Just check my meter and the instructions has a conversion on it seems what I have in my notes for conversion are wrong, what I though was 800ppm is actualy more, I don't like to push the nutrients to hard so I guess that's why I havnt had problems with over feeding but for someone who likes to push there feed to the limit it could of been fatal.

Thanks again bro.

Hey, really glad if it was helpful!

Hi X,

You were reading my mind...about the ec/ppm stuff...I was in on that conversation in JZ's journal...Mr.K is actually the one that got me going on this, with the chart he posted, a dupe of the one you posted. I'm new and don't/didn't know anything about water/nutes, ec/ppm's etc...

Lately, I've basically been doing the same thing...lower nutes, and not so wet, I'm only watering every other day right now.

Here's my basic ??'s now...what's the best ec level? Mr K said to divide whatever my ppm's are by 500 (for my meter) that gives ec value. Ok, if that's the case anything over 1000 is a 2.0 ec, that's sounds excessive, I've never seen this high of an ec recommended for any stage, even late in flower. But so many growers say to feed as much as 1300ppm. What gives

I also never feed above 1,000 PPM (500 conversion). But, remember, 1300 PPM on a 700 conversion meter is 928 PPM on a 500 conversion meter:

1300 PPM/700 = 1.86 EC (rounded up)
1.86 EC * 500 = 930 PPM on a 500 conversion meter

There is no "best" EC level since each strain/pheno will have it's own unique nute requirements at each stage of growth. As growers, we try to find the "sweet spot" for each of our plants, then adjust the EC according to what the plant needs at that time.

Younger, less mature plants, will require less nutes (less EC). As the plant matures, it requires more.

As a general rule, you're raising the EC/PPM's all through the grow, up to three weeks before the flush. Then, start lowering PPM's for two weeks (preparing for flush), and then, flush in the final week.

During that time, my PPM's range from about 400 PPM to about 1,000 PPM (again, 500 conversion).

I agree with everything Mr. Krip said, but would just add a couple things. A lot of growers, and some damned good ones, grow with really high EC/PPM's. Many nutrient manufacturers, in my opinion and limited experience, recommend dosages that are almost ridiculously high. In the right environment our plant can tolerate a pretty high EC/PPM... but I don't think it's necessary.

There are many ways to skin a cat, or grow this plant.

I've noticed that a few growers that I think of in the "best of the best" category are passionate that with a decent nutrient it doesn't take a high PPM level to make the plants happy. They contend it's more about light. When somebody shows you plants that yield over 2 lbs., grown indoors, grown with a one part nutrient and EC 1.2, there is a take away I can learn from!

My gut tells me that most nutrient programs could be run at 1/2 of their recommended strength with outstanding results - with the right light and environmental conditions. My limited experience points that direction as well. Maybe I'm leaving yield on the table, but I don't think so... not because of that anyway.

 

[Xlr8]

Hello, friend. On one hand, this comes as a surprise, and on the other, it is very much not. I knew you would be growing still, but I thought you were taking a break. I'm not bitching by any means, I just don't want you to feel obligated to chronicle your grow if it is too much right now. We will all understand if you need a break from keeping up regular posts and pics and such.

Okay, brotherly love over.

Lookin' good so far, man! I had the wrinkles on one of mine but it seemed to grow out of it in a week. I'd keep an eye on it though.

Thanks Jandre. I'm not going to keep journaling, but couldn't resist putting up a few pics. I'll wrap this journal up officially soon. just didn't want to end it on such a fizzle. I still plan to participate on the site as often as I can.

 

[jandre2k3]

Thanks Jandre. I'm not going to keep journaling, but couldn't resist putting up a few pics. I'll wrap this journal up officially soon. just didn't want to end it on such a fizzle. I still plan to participate on the site as often as I can.

Fizzle?! Dude, you ended with a BANG! well, okay, Chocolope was a little lean, but you can't let that one plant kill the whole harvest! The rest of it was NOISCHE!

 

[Xlr8]

Fizzle?! Dude, you ended with a BANG! well, okay, Chocolope was a little lean, but you can't let that one plant kill the whole harvest! The rest of it was NOISCHE!

Yeah, the Chocolope actually went to plan in a lot of ways - I flowered it really early (practically 12/12 from seed) and intended for it to be a small plant as it was an afterthought, literally. The idea was to see how much I liked a Sativa dominant plant, so I could make a better decision about the next round. Still, if I hadn't had root issues it might have yielded okay considering. Problem was, I liked it a TON and wish I'd have given it half the tent...

for the awesome support and encouragement!

 

[Propa Gator]

I ordered seed last night, but left out Chocolope Haze. I couldn't find fem and I'm not happy with any balls near me except... Just ask my cat, he found out.
Someday, I'll deal with it. Description is of a plant that can be mastered by experts. A worthy challenge perhaps, reading into your desire for more.

 

[420fied]

Around the forums here, and any MMJ forums, people throw around "PPM (Pars Per Million)" quite a bit, but I'm not sure everyone realizes that PPM's are not standardized. An Oakton meter and a Hanna meter used to measure the same nutrient solution would report different PPM readings, for example. EC (Electrical Conductivity) is the only truly "universal" measurement standard for total disolved solids, and the PPM readings our meters give us convert that, using a math formula, to PPM's. The problem is that Hanna uses ".5" as the conversion factor, Oakton uses ".7" etc....

This chart sums it up well:

The reason I bring this up, is that I plan on running my plants at much lower PPM/EC levels than I used to, and I plan on continuing this into flower. My plants above are currently vegging at .7 EC, or 490 ppm on my Oakton meter. They are showing no signs of deficiency and are growing rapidly.

There is a grower named Heath Robinson who grows single-plant/trees yielding 40z plus per plant, indoors in hydro, using no higher than 1.2 EC in bloom. You read that right, all of it, and no I didn't mean 40 grams. This is my inspiration to run lower PPM's/EC, as I think he's more than proved his point. I took a first step in my last grow, where I rarely went above 1000 ppm on my Oakton meter, or about 750ppm on a Hanna/ 1.5 EC.

All plants are different, and have different feeding needs, so I'll need to watch my plants closely and adjust. What works for others in their environment doesn't always translate...

Sorry if this was boring, but I thought maybe someone would find all this useful -- it's what's occupying my mind at the moment!

I should note that in order to grow plants like that 40z monster, you need much more light than I have! Heath's experiences tell me that nutrient concentration is very secondary to lots and lots of light!!!

If you are interested in seeing a plant like that, Mr. Smith is growing an indoor hydro TREE out of his Dark Star mother that should easily win POTM when he enters it. Check out his excellent Dark Star thread if you get a moment:

DarkStar Project - Advanced Growing

When I ran my aero SCROG journal. my PPM never ran higher than 600.

 

[Mr. Krip]

FYI...for anyone that hasn't seen them, here's one of Heath's older 420 journals...Check out the size of the buds on his tree!

Heath's Latest Tree Grow

 

[Xlr8]

When I ran my aero SCROG journal. my PPM never ran higher than 600.

That's awesome, thanks for sharing that. Speaks exactly to the point, and part of why I want to think differently about nutrient concentration.

I appreciate you chiming in - you have valuable experience we can all learn from.