Will using CO2 save me money?

[Widowsnest]

Hello fellow bud lovers,
Basically my question is: Would running CO2 even at minimum required ppm be more cost effective than venting heat outside?

My current set up is in my cold storage in a 12ftx5ftx8ft grow room. It contains one 2x3x3 propagator and one 2x2.5x6 grow tent. The ambient temperatures throughout the year run from 6c to 10c in the cold storage. This air is pulled into my room via pvc pipe and then flows over a heater.
It is extracted on the other side with a carbon filter hooked up to a 4” inline fan set on low. The pipe then has a split in it to send about 3/4 of the air back into the room ventilating my propagator.
Running the heater is costing me about $60 a month (thanks Ontario Hydro). So would it be cheaper to hook up a tank or generator (House is propane equipped) even to maintain minimum CO2 ppm’s than to vent my hard earned money outside? I’m constantly looking at ways to make things more efficient. Even if it’s just to keep my better half happy. Thanks!

 

[Bonsaiweed]

Hello fellow bud lovers,
Basically my question is: Would running CO2 even at minimum required ppm be more cost effective than venting heat outside?

My current set up is in my cold storage in a 12ftx5ftx8ft grow room. It contains one 2x3x3 propagator and one 2x2.5x6 grow tent. The ambient temperatures throughout the year run from 6c to 10c in the cold storage. This air is pulled into my room via pvc pipe and then flows over a heater.
It is extracted on the other side with a carbon filter hooked up to a 4” inline fan set on low. The pipe then has a split in it to send about 3/4 of the air back into the room ventilating my propagator.
Running the heater is costing me about $60 a month (thanks Ontario Hydro). So would it be cheaper to hook up a tank or generator (House is propane equipped) even to maintain minimum CO2 ppm’s than to vent my hard earned money outside? I’m constantly looking at ways to make things more efficient. Even if it’s just to keep my better half happy. Thanks!

The answer isn't as simple as it may seem. For an experienced grower that has their system worked out close to perfection, I would say, maybe.

Most people looking into CO2 are growing multiple Kg or lbs of buds. They use the CO2 to increase their yields.

CO2 can be an expensive item. I would think $60 a month would be a drop in the bucket for CO2, but I really do not have a clue. I'm totally guessing.

Also, to keep the CO2 at the right ppm, you need a controller which costs money. Propane can get very expensive too.

I can't say I have a solution for your situation. It isn't always easy to find a cheaper way to do things.

The best thing to do is get a fan controller that works on temperature. It can turn your exhaust fan on and off based on the temperature you set. That would help some. Run your lights during the coldest time (I'm sure you are doing that). They provide some heat.

I don't think CO2 would be a cheaper option than the heater, but like I said. I have no clue.

 

[Widowsnest]

The answer isn't as simple as it may seem. For an experienced grower that has their system worked out close to perfection, I would say, maybe.

Most people looking into CO2 are growing multiple Kg or lbs of buds. They use the CO2 to increase their yields.

CO2 can be an expensive item. I would think $60 a month would be a drop in the bucket for CO2, but I really do not have a clue. I'm totally guessing.

Also, to keep the CO2 at the right ppm, you need a controller which costs money. Propane can get very expensive too.

I can't say I have a solution for your situation. It isn't always easy to find a cheaper way to do things.

The best thing to do is get a fan controller that works on temperature. It can turn your exhaust fan on and off based on the temperature you set. That would help some. Run your lights during the coldest time (I'm sure you are doing that). They provide some heat.

I don't think CO2 would be a cheaper option than the heater, but like I said. I have no clue.

Thanks for watching over me Bonsaiweed
I have a temp fan controller from my first set up. But I more need to vent the air to keep fresh stuff coming in. My cold storage is under my front porch. 18 inches of insulated concrete on all sides. It’s pretty air tight so bringing in more is a must. It is porous though. No.condensation but the fan needs to be run even during lights out to keep the humidity down. Which I guess brings in the dehumidifier that would be needed if CO2 was running. That alone wouldn’t off set the heater by much. I’ll put this in the back of my mind. Ever since I started cultivating I frequently catch myself daydreaming about my grow and what can be done to achieve the perfect conditions. Thank you for your insight

 

[Old Salt]

I'd stay away from CO2 in a residence. There's too much chance of something going terribly wrong.

Insulating your grow space is probably the cheapest way to lower your electrical costs. Plywood underlayment is probably the cheapest and easiest method to sheath your walls and ceiling. Don't forget the floor.

I figure this would pay for itself within a year if you do it yourself.

 

[Bonsaiweed]

Thanks for watching over me Bonsaiweed
I have a temp fan controller from my first set up. But I more need to vent the air to keep fresh stuff coming in. My cold storage is under my front porch. 18 inches of insulated concrete on all sides. It’s pretty air tight so bringing in more is a must. It is porous though. No.condensation but the fan needs to be run even during lights out to keep the humidity down. Which I guess brings in the dehumidifier that would be needed if CO2 was running. That alone wouldn’t off set the heater by much. I’ll put this in the back of my mind. Ever since I started cultivating I frequently catch myself daydreaming about my grow and what can be done to achieve the perfect conditions. Thank you for your insight

I'm no expert, but I try to provide a different perspective. Sometimes we are left with a no-win situation.

Sorry I didn't have any answers though....

 

[Widowsnest]

Thanks guys,

Oldsalt: Thanks for the warning. Something that crossed my mind but wasn’t sure how risky it’d be as my room is very contained but would absolutely not want to take a chance.

Seems that now that I’ve written it out and considering the input I’ve received it wouldn’t be cost effective or safe.

Bonsaiweed: I’m here for others perspectives so thanks, you’ve both been very helpful.

 

[Weaselcracker]

A slightly separate issue- I'm not sure what your temperatures are or what size dehum you'll need for your space. But I also needed a heater during lights out, as well as a dehumidifier. I found that when I did eventually put a dehumidifier in there -it did a great job of heating the space as well as drying it. Two in one. RH and temps do go hand in hand and you may be able to kill two birds with one stone. So to speak. If you're not too stoned to kill birds. Or whatever...

 

[Old Salt]

A slightly separate issue- I'm not sure what your temperatures are or what size dehum you'll need for your space. But I also needed a heater during lights out, as well as a dehumidifier. I found that when I did eventually put a dehumidifier in there -it did a great job of heating the space as well as drying it. Two in one. RH and temps do go hand in hand and you may be able to kill two birds with one stone. So to speak. If you're not to stoned to kill birds. Or whatever...

The water capacity of air doubles with each 10°C rise in temperature. What that means is if you have 100% RH at 6°C and add a heater to bring it up to 16°C, the RH will drop to 50%. This assumes that no moisture is added to the air, something unlikely in a grow environment.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Besides all the transpiration going on and the evaporation from the pots, the root of the RH issue in my grow is that I draw fresh air from the outside, and the local RH hovers close to 100 most of the time. Otherwise I could draw fresh air at night and not need the dehumidifier.

(Edited... Misread your post the first time OS. )

 

[Bonsaiweed]

Besides all the transpiration going on and the evaporation from the pots, the root of the RH issue in my grow is that I draw fresh air from the outside, and the local RH hovers close to 100 most of the time. Otherwise I could draw fresh air at night and not need the dehumidifier.

(Edited... Misread your post the first time OS. )

Yeah, I scratched my head a few times on that post, but that makes sense. More energy will allow more water to stay suspended without dropping out. As well as the expansion of the air.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Yeh I get confused about this for some reason. Thanks for that info Old Salt

If all the moisture in the room is suspended in the air and no more is being added- what is the effective difference between an RH of 100% and one of 50% at those temps. None? Other than that the lower temperature situation with an RH of 50% is closer to saturation/dew point?
Does that make sense? Kind of stoned. Lol!
Like what if your jar of bud is 60% RH at room temp and it drops ten degrees? Then what -how is the situation in the jar different?

 

[Weaselcracker]

No bites? This dumb question has been bugging me for a while. I'll ask it of Arctic Bowl. I think he used to be a weatherman or something related.

 

[Diggler420]

No bites? This dumb question has been bugging me for a while. I'll ask it of Arctic Bowl. I think he used to be a weatherman or something related.

I may be totally wrong, but the jar would be different because the atmosphere in the jar should stay the same. Sometimes My jars will suck air in when I open them in the morning and it is much cooler in my room.

 

[Old Salt]

At 100% RH the air can't hold any more moisture. Let's give it some values. Your daytime temperature is set to 27°C, and at night it drops to 17°C. If your RH is 75% when your temperature starts to drop, The RH will go up to 100% and you will have condensation in your grow area. In the morning when the temperature goes up, the RH will go down to 50%, and moisture needs to be added to the air to bring it back up to 75%. The relatively dry air will absorb moisture from the leaves, and your grow medium, unless another source of moisture is used (a humidifier.) This assumes that the air used for ventilation is at the same temperature and humidity as the grow area.

In reality this isn't true, as the ventilation air will have a different temperature and humidity than your grow area. It will take some of the moisture away at night, and could add moisture during the day. Your night time RH will drop below 100%, and depending on where you live, during the day will supply some humidity to the grow area.

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

At 100% RH the air can't hold any more moisture. Let's give it some values. Your daytime temperature is set to 27°C, and at night it drops to 17°C. If your RH is 75% when your temperature starts to drop, The RH will go up to 100% and you will have condensation in your grow area. In the morning when the temperature goes up, the RH will go down to 50%, and moisture needs to be added to the air to bring it back up to 75%. The relatively dry air will absorb moisture from the leaves, and your grow medium, unless another source of moisture is used (a humidifier.) This assumes that the air used for ventilation is at the same temperature and humidity as the grow area.

In reality this isn't true, as the ventilation air will have a different temperature and humidity than your grow area. It will take some of the moisture away at night, and could add moisture during the day. Your night time RH will drop below 100%, and depending on where you live, during the day will supply some humidity to the grow area.

Ye that is pretty spot on bud

In less you a have degree in pure maths, then ye it will give ya head thumping timing... Mmm

Values of intake air RH/temp vs RH/Temp of either indoor/out door source compared to grow room temps lights on/off effecting RH/temp etc it kind of gives you some wild sizzle to deal with


Other wise i may suggest a closed looped system you don't see to many grow journals with that stuff going on, it is quite impressive when ya get right ! other wise powdery mildew can be a pain in the right royal butt hole !

 

[Diggler420]

Ye that is pretty spot on bud

In less you a have degree in pure maths, then ye it will give ya head thumping timing... Mmm

Values of intake air RH/temp vs RH/Temp of either indoor/out door source compared to grow room temps lights on/off effecting RH/temp etc it kind of gives you some wild sizzle to deal with


Other wise i may suggest a closed looped system you don't see to many grow journals with that stuff going on, it is quite impressive when ya get right ! other wise powdery mildew can be a pain in the right royal butt hole !

I am looking to switch to co2 and a sealed room. When you say closed loop, do you mean that no air is vented or pulled in?
I am leaning towards that. My only issue is my ac unit. I have a 13000 btu ac that vents the hot air out of the room. It pulls cool air in the room and exhausts it. It is not as much air as a 6” exhaust fan will pull, but it is still exhausting some hot air.
Could I convert my 12X10 room to a semi sealed room, with co2 added and have my current ac unit cooling. Or would the ac pull too much co2 out.

 

[Diggler420]

I forgot, the ac is one of those that rolls around the room and not a permanent hvac home type unit.
I deal more with high temps and look forward to the cool temps.