Will 28-35% humidity kill my crop?

yeah im running a 600W HPS bulb right now, it gets really hot, to the point if you touch the reflector you risk getting burnt. If you keep a fan on the reflector, instead of the heat radiating down onto your plants, the breeze pulls it away.

I do have a fairly open area though which I'm growing in, so that could be the difference here. Having things inside a closed tent would definitely heat up pretty quick. 80f @ 35% is good, they should be happy with that. I would just monitor the stretch, if you have the light further away, they could grow taller with more spaces between the nodes, which will in the long run give you a lanky plant with less bud sites. The light degrades quickly, so it's definitely important to get the light as close as possible without doing damage.

You're right, white widow is mainly indica, I believe its 70/30 but depending on the breeder it could be a little different. They will definitely bush up but you shouldn't have to worry too much about height.

Depending on the final size you are looking at them reaching in bloom, I always account 1ft/gal of container space. I use 3gal pots for flower and absolutely love them. I end up with a pretty thick root ball at the end, but not root bound in any means, so I see no real benefit from going 5gal. I used 5gal my first grow and ended up wasting a lot of soil. 2.5 may be a little small, so I would definitely go with 3gal unless you plan on growing 4ft+ babies.. Even then, I've had a few 4ft plants in 3gal pots no problem.

When to transplant? Whenever the roots have filled the container they're in. It's generally hard to tell, but if you squeeze both sides, you can generally look down along the side of the pot. If you see lots of roots its safe to transplant. If you see dirt and no separation, it's not ready yet. The last thing you need is for the dirt to fall off the roots and tear them all apart.

I'm usually in starter pots until they're big enough for 1gal, then they stay in there until they're ready for bloom. I throw them in 3gal pots, give them 3-5 days adjusting time in veg and then put them in bloom.
 
Hey crimson, thanks for your input and patieance with me. I have a visitor and little time wo work with the plants. I will tell you that the heat was to much at 1.5 feet above and I raised the cooltube back up. My most promising plant now is looking droopy and is more of a lime green and the rest of my smaller plants took off like they were on steroids. Now there is another plant taking over as the biggest. Did moving the 600w MH hurt that lime green plant? My first grow and im nervouse to lose any. I still gotta read your reply. Thanks again for all the help.

look how much darker all the others are. Im so confused.

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I see the lime green one, at this point it doesn't really look bad, I've seen my plants do that overnight as they were growing a lot, especially with the MH. It took them a day to bounce back, but once they started sucking up N the yellowing went away. Those things are stacking up really nice bro, they will flower really nicely.

At this point I would say they're big enough to start feeding if you're not already. There may be some nutes in the soil still so I would start off at like 1/4 strength and see how they react to it. I'd let them go another week or 2 before transplanting and get that root ball nice and thick, it will make transplanting so much easier.
 
I added a humidifier in the tent and it must be a POS becuase it didnt help, my temps is 80f 36% humidity. Im gonna try and find a better one. None the less I transplanted most of my plants for the roots were starting to come out the bottom and they seem to be adapting to the new soil very well. Another cool thing. I got 10 blueberry kushs, 4 ufo's, and 5 ak48's all feminized in rapid root mats seperated by the strains. Got a 4 foot mirrored fixture with 4 t5 bulbs for clones seedlings and hopefully a big mother. Wow growing has such a learning curve. Here are some pics.

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5 weeks after first sprout and transplanted recently

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new fixture and new seeds :)

O yeah them UFO'S are growing like crazy, they germinated in 36-48 hours and 24 hours in the rapid grow mat 2 have already sprouted. I dont know anything about the ufo strains except they are growing faster then anything Ive ever seen.
 
and now for another opinion:Humidity, Vapor Pressure Deficit and the Transpiration Stream
by Dr. Lynette Morgan
2011-01-01
PrintEmailWith indoor gardens our focus for optimizing growth is often light, warmth and just the right mix of nutrients, but humidity, or more specifically vapor pressure deficit (VPD), is sometimes overlooked. While relative humidity is fairly easy to measure with sensors or meters in the plant canopy, it's difficult to know exactly what to aim for and how to adjust levels�and what exactly does it all mean for the plants? High humidity gets the blame for all sorts of scourges and nasty disease outbreaks, while low humidity may mistakenly be held accountable for anything that looks like burning, drying, shriveling or bleaching. However, the issues of humidity and VPD in the growing environment are a little more complex, both in terms of plant growth and disease or growth disorders. To complicate matters further, different levels of humidity and VPD are appropriate for different plant species�from dry atmosphere cactus to wet, steaming tropicals.
What is relative humidity (RH) and vapor pressure deficit (VPD)?
Relative humidity is the most commonly used measure of how much water vapor is held in the air and it's something most of us are familiar with, as we all know how uncomfortable hot, steamy air can be. 100 per cent relative humidity is extremely humid, while a humidity reading of only 50 per cent represents a dry environment, but what these values don't tell us is how much water is actually being held in the air, unless the temperature is also given. This is because cold air holds much less water vapor than hot air. For example, air at 50oF can hold 9.4 grams of water vapor per 35 cubic feet, while air at 86oF can hold three times as much, up to a maximum of 30.4 grams per 35 cubic feet. This has some implications for growers as it's not just a simple case of aiming for one `ideal' relative humidity value, since the effect of humidity on plants also depends on temperature. As a rough guide, the table below is used by greenhouse growers of many fruiting and vegetable crops and shows the relationship between temperature and humidity levels.

Temperature °F Minimum ideal RH
(fog or wet down) Ideal RH Maximum RH
(to prevent disease)
59 - 50 per cent 73 per cent
68 46 per cent 64 per cent 80 per cent
77 60 per cent 73 per cent 86 per cent
86 70 per cent 80 per cent 89 per cent



The problem with using relative humidity is that it's hard to set one optimum RH value, particularly when temperatures tend to vary between day and night and often throughout a 24 hour period. For this reason many growers prefer to use vapor pressure deficit (VPD) as a more accurate measure of the water vapor content of the air and how this affects plant growth.


VPD is the difference (or deficit) between the amount of moisture in the air at the current time and how much moisture the air can hold when it is saturated. Saturated air will condense out to form dew or condensation and leaf wetness, which in turn can lead to rot and a higher occurrence of certain disease pathogens. So while plants don't want an overly dry atmosphere (high VPD), which sucks the moisture from the foliage, they also don't want a wet environment (low VPD), which slows transpiration and can lead to an increase in disease outbreaks. VPD is typically expressed in the units kPa (kilopascals) with the range for most plants being 0.45 kPa to 1.25 kPa, with the optimum being around 0.85 kPa. Most indoor gardens are best run at 0.8 to 0.95 kPa for healthy mature plants, with cuttings needing a more humid environment in the lower VPD ranges. What is important is that unlike relative humidity, the VPD range for optimal growth already takes current temperature into account–so the one ideal value irrespective of temperature is around 0.85 kPa. Growers who come to grips with the concept of VPD can accurately measure and adjust their growing environment to stay within the recommended range and give themselves some considerable advantages both in terms of maximizing growth and the ability to control some rather persistent nasties such as Botrytis (grey mold) disease.


Technically, VPD more accurately describes what the plant experiences in relation to the effects of temperature and humidity on growth and transpiration. It combines the effects of both humidity and temperature into one value, so it's easier to use when setting environmental controls.

Why is humidity or VPD so important for plant growth?

"A dry environment with low humidity typically results in smaller, more compact leaves in tomato crops."
We know that light level and quality and CO2 affect photosynthesis and a number of other plant processes, and that temperature determines the levels of many biological processes within plant cells, but the effects of humidity are a little more indirect. VPD directly affects the rate of transpiration within the plant. Transpiration not only cools the plant, but the transpiration stream from root to leaf surface carries essential minerals up the plant to where they are needed for tissue development. Leaves exposed to the sun or overhead lamps would soon become dangerously hot if they were not cooled by water evaporating from the leaf surface–the process actually works in a similar way to sweat. This evaporated water needs to be replaced from the transpiration stream, which moves in the xylem vessels of the plant. If the water flow from roots to shoots in the xylem vessels is not fast enough, the plant will start to wilt and tissue damage will occur. The plant will shut its stomata in an attempt to retain turgor pressure and prevent wilting if too much water is being lost via transpiration. When the stomata shut to prevent water loss, photosynthesis cannot occur as CO2 can't be taken in from the surrounding air, so plant growth and yield will be slowed if this occurs too often. Low humidity (high VPD) can cause large volumes of water from the transpiration stream to be lost to the air and force the plant to shut down its stomata to prevent desiccation, and this ultimately reduces growth and yields.


High humidity (low VPD), on the other hand, creates a different problem. When the air already contains a lot of water vapor and may even be close to saturation, it cannot absorb much more water from the plant surface and transpiration slows or even stops. If high humidity conditions exist at the same time as high temperatures, the plant has a major problem as it can't evaporate enough water from its foliage to cool its tissue and overheating will then occur. Cell damage, wilting and reduced growth will result where hot plants can't effectively cool themselves via transpiration due to high relative humidity, and in these cases some humidity control is essential.


The transpiration stream moving through the xylem vessels from roots to shoots driven by VPD and humidity is essential for plant functioning. Not only does the water carried in the transpiration stream maintain plant turgor and support, it also carries with it mineral elements and other compounds taken up by the roots. So without a good rate of transpiration drawing the flow of water and minerals up through the xylem tissues from the roots, plant foliage can't obtain sufficient levels of nutrients for growth and development. One of the most important aspects of transpiration is the flow of calcium. If transpiration is restricted in any way, the lack of calcium flow out to the leaf tips and new cells in developing fruits will cause problems such as tip burn and blossom end rot, which are conditions common under warm and humid growing conditions.

How RH and VPD influence disease outbreaks
There are a wide range of fungal and bacterial diseases that will attack even healthy plants under high humidity (low VPD) conditions, because fungal spores in particular are carried on air currents and so tend to be around much of the time just waiting for the right conditions to launch an attack. Spores themselves need to absorb water from the environment to germinate and get inside plant tissue, and having free water available such as that from condensation on plant surfaces is perfect for fungal diseases to develop. However, not all fungal disease spores need water on the plant surface, and many will attack when the air humidity is high. For this reason the safe maximum humidity value is often considered to be around 85 per cent at 77o F, or in other words a VPD value of more than 0.35 kPa is recommended at all times in order to prevent fungal diseases, which are common under humid conditions. While many of the commonly encountered plant diseases such as Botrytis (grey mold) thrive under humid conditions, and a good degree of control can be achieved by running optimal RH or VPD levels, there is always an exception. Powdery mildew species have spores that contain a lot of water themselves, so they don't need high humidity or water for germination, and they can also obtain all the water they need for growth from the leaves that they infect. This means that powdery mildew can develop at humidity levels as low as 30 per cent and that its appearance is not necessarily a sign that humidity has been running high.

How to control RH and VPD
Low humidity (high VPD) is fairly easy to adjust upwards to high RH, as putting water vapor back into the air can be easily achieved with some light fogging, misting or damping down in the growing area. An open pan of water should provide enough evaporation to increase the humidity if you're only dealing with a small area. Evaporative coolers also tend to increase the humidity of the air fairly effectively under warm growing conditions. However, having high humidity is a more common problem, as large surface areas of foliage tend to lose surprising volumes of water through transpiration and this adds to the humidity of the surrounding air. This humid air, referred to as the boundary layer, needs to be removed from directly around the foliage or further transpiration could be restricted. The best way of doing this is with a continual stream of drier fresh air, which not only lowers the humidity directly surrounding the leaf surface but also replenishes CO2 for photosynthesis. The amount of airflow required to continually remove excess water vapor and bring in sufficient CO2 is higher than many growers realize–there should be sufficient airflow to keep the leaves gently moving most of the time. The warmer it is and the faster the plants are growing, the more the air needs to be shifted over the leaf surface for these processes to occur at optimal rates. For very humid climates, sometimes the only option is a dehumidifier. If the outside air being brought in to cool and dehumidify an indoor garden is naturally very humid it can't absorb much more moisture from transpiration, and using a dehumidifier is often useful for smaller areas under these conditions.

Checking humidity or monitoring vapor pressure deficit in the growing area is just as important as maintaining temperature, light and nutrition levels when it comes to optimizing plant growth and yields. Having some understanding of the relationship between RH and temperature and VPD and how to influence and optimize these factors is an essential tool for the serious grower, and also for those gardeners who just want to prevent annoying outbreaks of fungal disease.
 
My RH averages around 30 and my plants love it, not to mention i dont worry about bud rot which can devastate a crop. I used to mist weekly but didnt notice a difference at all. When lights are out i shoot up to 35-40% lights on 25-32%. I put in a cool mist humidifier just to get up to these levels it was around 16% beforehand
 
Im sorry Jamie that was alot of info, I might be to much of a beginner to understand all that....

Here is my progress and my problems. I bought a new humidifier just now (so we shouldnt see results yet) but the humidity went up from 28% to 40% average. I got 2 problems I think and Ill show pics. I promise im doing as much research as I can but I just want a second opinon on some of them. I transplanted from foxfarm soil in juvinile stages then when I when I went to "roots organic" and learned my mistake that the PH drops when you use a cap full of grow big in a gallon (ph is 7.5-8 off tap). Now I know it equals out but the new soil is rich in nutrients so Im recovering a couple of these guys. Im at 6 weeks of vegitation and my plants are small and being a new grower I guess thats expected. Can any one give me some hints on what is going on and how to improve my situation. Btw now that these hopefully females Id like to confirm my mistakes so I dont skrew up later on and fix my problems now.

600w MH 75-80f 40% humidity (todays new humidifier) was %28

Please be nice on what to do or not do. I got 20 plants 1 week old doing great under 4 t5's with reflector.

Ill show a few pics of the problem leaves and childs and let me know what I need to do to fix and now have this reacur. thanks

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he or she is barely hanging on, what did I do wrong.

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this is the bottom leaf of my hopeful big Mother.
What is happening to this leaf? rest of the plant is great besides 1-2 more of these leaves.

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I think this was a PH balance problem but please tell me.
Im getting a better grasp on PH

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Im open to suggestions but please be kind


thanks community
 
Nice find Jammie, was an interesting read.


"A dry environment with low humidity typically results in smaller, more compact leaves in tomato crops." This line from Dr. Morgan's paper might be relevant to you rudedog.

I want to help but I won't click links......the weed has made me paranoid :)
 
Im not sure what to say. I think there is a way to do it after tonight I read a notification on how to upload them here.
 
I hope I fixed things :)

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[URL]https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/504/phpHtCRzZPM.jpg[/URL]

[URL]https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/504/phpZNBfWBPM.jpg[/URL]

I hope I dont piss more people up but im just trying to learn and for the first time I love walking the garden section at Lowes. :) please read above for the story upon the picture. O yeah on quick question. If im growing good shit out of rapid grow and water only should I use a tad ofr nutrients like "clone-ex " for minimal nutrient growth becuase I belive only water is making these sprout like this.

[URL]https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/504/phpz7I9dXPM.jpg[/URL]
there is some good luck :)[IMG]https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/504/phpBThizkPM.jpg
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I hope I fixed things :)

https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/504/phpBThizkPM.jpg

https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/504/phpHtCRzZPM.jpg

https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/504/phpZNBfWBPM.jpg

I hope I dont piss more people up but im just trying to learn and for the first time I love walking the garden section at Lowes. :) please read above for the story upon the picture. O yeah on quick question. If im growing good shit out of rapid grow and water only should I use a tad ofr nutrients like "clone-ex " for minimal nutrient growth becuase I belive only water is making these sprout like this.

https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/504/phpz7I9dXPM.jpg
there is some good luck :)

That's great, but what you can also do, is when you make a post, copy the links to the gallery pictures, click the tiny picture icon (with a mountain and a sun) and just paste the address and click OK.
 
Thanks Admins!

My apologies.

I got an arsenol of 10 blueberry kush, 4 UFO's, and 5 AK48's
comming next but Id really like to learn on what im doing wrong or is it like joge cerventes says an average of 3 good females out of 10 seeds. SWhould be upset at some dead juviniles. First time grower and it looks like 6 out of unfemized seeds of white widdow are making it possibly 7 but I st6ill dont see there sex and I dont have piston or balls. I grew these guys up 24-7 under low humidity with I MH 1000w to early. Im not down to a 600w and with yo you and adjustable room I can change it qith ease. I just need to know what im doing wrong with them bad photos. I wanna getter better! Isnt this what its all about?
 
Im not sure if this happened ramdomly but after adding a new humidifier 2 plants are 100% females with pistols! Finally my babies are sexually maturing, and im one of the most excited fathers ever! The little hairs start out small but its like they all are about to mature at once, maybe its like when you get a group of females and put them togeather and they all get that same time of the month some how, who knows? But I really am starting to see improvements in my plants leaves being more tender and nodes growing like wild fires.

Currently im at %45 humidity and 80F and Im starting to really think that adding the proper humidity made these plants come alive again or art least grow and mature at a faster pace. Ill continue monitoring everything but Im gonna lean towards the side that humidity Does matter at least with White widow.
 
Glad to hear they are all turning around for the better. Are the first 3 pics from the same plant? In the group shot they all seem healthy except that one.

Did you just water it before you took the shot? Looks like it might be overwatered from first glance, or the roots might need some more air. Do you have enough drainage holes on that pot?
 
Over watering has been a priority from the begining. I think I had humidity problems and some noob mistakes. But drainage and over watering hasnt been a problem since I watch the forum on not to give to much nutriants and not to ever water. Ill post a pic tommorow with them beautiful pistols and how alive and differant the plant acted with the humidity increased. Im just so happy to see white pistols on my biggest and healthiest plants. This is my first crop so Im excited. The plant that was pretty much dead was replaced and will probaly stay under heavy T5 light to make clones.
My white widow is growing 2 feet out and 1 foot tall with stems as large as your middle finger. I got alot to learn and im hoping they are all females :) I got 20 plants all feminized ready yo take the place as soon as flowering is done. I need to take a pic and upload it tommorow since after the transplant they stopped growing for 2 days and now they growing fast, so fast I cant I cant have vistors. The odor is so obviouse in such a large place. The big mother in the 5 gallon will be my cloner and after I see all the sexs Ill start the HPS bulb. Ive got nodes out the ass but the plants are a foot, I hope the HPS will resolve the isssue. Ive been running MH for 6 weeks 24-7 after sprout. Im thinking of running the HPS 18/6 for 2 weeks then 13/11 hours to flower. Sativa and indaca grow so differant its hard to get proper advice. Im gonna clone big momma and flower the rest. Stems are as large as your ring finger but they are so bushy.

PS. no they were random leaves from a few plants

All week I had a severe case of the flu so i might have sounded retarded with spelling.

Tell me if this is a good Idea: 2 weeks HPS 18/6 then 12/12 so I dont shock them. I put so much research and work I hope im doing a good job.

Thanks for all the feed back:) Im sick and need to rest.
 
My white widow is growing 2 feet out and 1 foot tall with stems as large as your middle finger. I got alot to learn and im hoping they are all females :) I got 20 plants all feminized ready yo take the place as soon as flowering is done.
Thanks for all the feed back:) Im sick and need to rest.

Sounds like you got it under control now. Great work. Waiting for new pics.

Prairie
 
I have 3 confirmed females 6 hours later and the little flaps are opening up on the rest and Im guessing I got all females the way they are looking. They seem to really be enjoying the humidity! It just sucks having to refill the humidifier twice a day :( But they are looking so much healthier. The big one in the center im gonna take out and put it under 4 4-foot t5 with a mirror reflector and im wondering if its time to start using the HPS bulb? Since ive been running the MH non stop 24-7 I was wondering if I should go gradual with the HPS 18/6 hours a day? Please give me your thoughts on if its time for the HPS or wait and shoudl I shock thwem with 12/12 of work my way down.

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I must mention I was using an Iphone and Ill get my regular digital camera back for better pics this after noon. but if you look close enough you can see a few white hairs, but in real life they are all over the place.

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Since ive been running the MH non stop 24-7 I was wondering if I should go gradual with the HPS 18/6 hours a day? Please give me your thoughts on if its time for the HPS or wait and shoudl I shock thwem with 12/12 of work my way down.

This topic has come up some in the forum. I think what some do is to put the plant into a 36 hour darkness, then go straight into the 12/12. At least that is what I do. Is there a shock, I would think so. But not enough to harm the plant.

Prairie
 
you can go straight to 12/12 if you want. I used to give a 36-48hr dark period before going 12/12 and didn't really see any difference from going straight to 12/12. Any strain I've worked with starts blooming immediately when the lights are flipped. I veg under a 110w t5 and then they go under a 600w HPS for flower. No shock or any issues when transferring rooms.
 
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