Nfsot, So at 21 days , Griselda here is looking hella healthy to me! Only two days ahead of her peirs , and the fan leaves are bigger, nodes showing up faster, think I have my pheno of Oregon wine if it turns out female, so right now I have three questions, how old do y'all let a plant before you top it? And before you lst it? And how old should it be before I can take clippings and clone it?also, I ran out of time today , and will come up with a better system to suspend it higher soon, but as you can see I have one hell of a light, second biggest one kind led sells , I can adjust all three spectrums, and right now I am only running them at 75% each, will be back tomorrow and next day to check on them,make sure it isn't frying them. What do y'all think? Good idea running them at only 75% per spectrum, or let er rip at 100%?
When should I top and LST?
- Thread starter Jhuck
- Start date
Southerncough
Well-Known Member
Hi! Most will say wait until she has full fan leaves with 5 or 7 tips, etc.
I'm by no means an expert but try to streamline the process where i can so here's what I usually do with a seedling of unknown sex...
1) Let her keep growing up so that she has 3-4 sets of leaves above the 2nd full set (of mature ones).
2) take the top off above the 2nd full set, should be at least 6" long with either very sharp scissors or a razor blade
3) strip the lower leaves off the cutting and snip off the pointy tips from the remaining leaves.
4) put the cutting in a cup of water under soft light on a 12 hour cycle.
In 2-3 weeks (depending on its genetics) your "seedling" should bush out a little AND the top you removed and put under 12/12 light should start showing its sex!
Next, if it's a new strain sometimes I'll let the tiny cutting grow roots and finish blooming. In another 6 weeks +/- I'll have about a gram of bud to sample which should help me decide if i want to run just the one plant through bloom or clone the crap outta her first
Also, if you're doing this to multiple plants be sure to label each plant and cutting with matching tags so not to get them mixed up!
I'm by no means an expert but try to streamline the process where i can so here's what I usually do with a seedling of unknown sex...
1) Let her keep growing up so that she has 3-4 sets of leaves above the 2nd full set (of mature ones).
2) take the top off above the 2nd full set, should be at least 6" long with either very sharp scissors or a razor blade
3) strip the lower leaves off the cutting and snip off the pointy tips from the remaining leaves.
4) put the cutting in a cup of water under soft light on a 12 hour cycle.
In 2-3 weeks (depending on its genetics) your "seedling" should bush out a little AND the top you removed and put under 12/12 light should start showing its sex!
Next, if it's a new strain sometimes I'll let the tiny cutting grow roots and finish blooming. In another 6 weeks +/- I'll have about a gram of bud to sample which should help me decide if i want to run just the one plant through bloom or clone the crap outta her first
Also, if you're doing this to multiple plants be sure to label each plant and cutting with matching tags so not to get them mixed up!
Nunyabiz
Well-Known Member
At 21 days she should be a lot bigger than that, so probably good to try to figure out why it's growing so slowly first.
I never top at all, with proper LST topping really doesn't accomplish anything but get rid of the best bud.
I usually start LST about day 14ish, plus or minus a few days. Just depends on how the plant is growing.
I have two plants growing right now that I am LST ing
A Queen CBD at 20% CBD and less than 1% THC.
And a White Widow.
The Queen CBD is 27 days old and the White Widow is 18 days old.
I never top at all, with proper LST topping really doesn't accomplish anything but get rid of the best bud.
I usually start LST about day 14ish, plus or minus a few days. Just depends on how the plant is growing.
I have two plants growing right now that I am LST ing
A Queen CBD at 20% CBD and less than 1% THC.
And a White Widow.
The Queen CBD is 27 days old and the White Widow is 18 days old.
Nunyabiz
Well-Known Member
What is your temperature?
If its below 75⁰ or maybe if the floor is super cold like cement then your roots could be cold, that could cause slow growth.
If its below 75⁰ or maybe if the floor is super cold like cement then your roots could be cold, that could cause slow growth.
Sueet
Well-Known Member
Looks like a lot of stretch. I would probably move the light closer, or add another one.
- Thread starter
- #6
It is neither of those, and that actually looks pretty on par for day 21 since I planted the seed in dirt for a photoperiod from what I have seen in general, that's really a runt for an indoor photoperiod about 18 days after surfacing? The angles may not do it justice but it has five sets of leaves, my roots held the whole cup together when I transplanted the other day.
Mayne
Well-Known Member
lol, no bro, its definitly behind, no matter what your comparing to, just says, they are all behind. Mine are 12 days from seed, and are 3rd node building. You need a fan also. maybe at the very least, build a box around it, losing alot of light,
- Thread starter
- #8
I have been keeping an oscillating fan on them, and pretty much following all the credible guides to the t, I'm confounded. Guess I need to bite this last bullet, even though it's SERIOUSLY fucking up the rest of my life lol,and buy a damn tent , ph water instead of using rain water, only other thing I can think of is if the lady I am growing them for is overwatering them, which I can't really control, I talked to her a million times about watering, only other thing I can do really is send her the actual tutorials, and make her read them, then maybe it will stick, oh and have them under the proper big light from the get go, that hasn't happened yet either, been a mix of sunlight in a windowsill and cheapo blue spec light . Bout the only variables I can think of.
Mayne
Well-Known Member
right on, you know whats up. 1 plant, a Vipar P2000 would be great, even a P1500 for under $100 would be well worth it. 2x2 tent is pretty cheap, because your going to have to 12/12 with NO light, complete darkness, PLUS, it helps with the harvest by being able to dry in the tent, and forget the rain water thing, you need calmag for sure in that. But seems consistant lighting is your problem. If you just keep that kind light, adjust the reds down as much as you can, it causes the stretch.
- Thread starter
- #10
Will do today, thanks
Nunyabiz
Well-Known Member
No, even for 18 days it should be larger and with a much thicker stalk.
My little plant the White Widow is just starting its 19th day today so they're the exact same age, ill try to get better pictures of it.
Yours doesn't have a single side shoot starting.
I would take about 90% of the red out of the Kind light and turn up the blue spectrum to 100%.
What kind of soil is it in?
Nunyabiz
Well-Known Member
Here a few pictures of the 19 day old White Widow.
Look at the bottom of stalk, my first node starts about 1/2" from the ground, node 2 is less than 1/2" from node 1 it is starting node 8 and its 6" tall.
Thick and bushy.
When you LST this is what you're looking for.
If we both flipped to flower today I would have between 12 to 16 colas and you have 1.
The tent will help, mostly blue spectrum until she thickens up.
Then LST.
Look at the bottom of stalk, my first node starts about 1/2" from the ground, node 2 is less than 1/2" from node 1 it is starting node 8 and its 6" tall.
Thick and bushy.
When you LST this is what you're looking for.
If we both flipped to flower today I would have between 12 to 16 colas and you have 1.
The tent will help, mostly blue spectrum until she thickens up.
Then LST.
- Thread starter
- #13
Ok, you definitely seem to know your stuff and not mind giving sage advice so far, so please forgive a long reply, I'll try to be as concise as possible, maybe you can set me straight. The way that this all started was that I agreed to grow some for a dear friend who has an out of town place, but she isn't fully committed , so she wasn't really trying to support me in setting up a full on grow op yet, I tried to tell her we need all this stuff in place ( ie tent, CO2, pH meter and soil tester, humidifier, dehumidifier, fans , etc) before we germinate seed one.Here a few pictures of the 19 day old White Widow.
Look at the bottom of stalk, my first node starts about 1/2" from the ground, node 2 is less than 1/2" from node 1 it is starting node 8 and its 6" tall.
Thick and bushy.
When you LST this is what you're looking for.
If we both flipped to flower today I would have between 12 to 16 colas and you have 1.
The tent will help, mostly blue spectrum until she thickens up.
Then LST.
She is one of these more casual, "it's a weed, it'll be aight type growers, never used anything but miracle gro and LEDs, and never did anything but fail either though.
Painfully I have bought 75% of the stuff , and trying to get it all into place has been a pain, because at first I was having a hard time deciding between keeping them at the house that I live at, where I could tend to them more, when they were still seedlings, but only under a cheap light that I bought 6 of for a bargain, at first they did great in a windowsill with a cheap blue light , the first week my tall sprinter put out a set of leaves a day, then they came home from vacay a week early, and they had to spend the next four weeks in dark shed under a cheap blue light on a timer, still grew, but slower, just yesterday I moved her into two gallons of super soil, and put her back in a Windowsill under a good light, the Kind XL750 , which is a formidable one, I have been keeping out at the main grow op.
Now, since then, they were almost found at our house so now, no choice , right after they sprout, they gotta get shipped out to the woods , to the main grow site. Out there at my disposal I have a seedling station with shelves, a ten by ten room with sloping ten foot ceilings , with a good window AC unit, humidifier, dehumidifier, I have hygrometer, soil tester and pH meter on the way, have been shopping a 6 by 6 tent, will get one soon, a will.could easily be built around the seedling station to segregate it. I have a Kind K5 XL 750, 6 Bloomspect full spectrum LEDs ( a mediocre grow light, but they have bloom and veg switches, ir, daisy chain outlets, they are about 65 bucks new) , and four led full spectrum little round bulb lamps. And good, mediocre , and cheap organically boosted soil. I'm thinking take the plunge,start them in a tent, fully controlled, start to finish, should I purchase a better light for seedlings station as well and let the cheapos be complimentary light for the main grow tent? And in what other way should I utilize these items?
Nunyabiz
Well-Known Member
First is how many plants do you want to grow?
How much bud do you need say for 6 months?
A 6x6 is fairly large, you could grow like 6 plants each in 20 gallon pots and if properly LST'd could get 3 pounds every 5 months pretty easily.
Thats A LOT 0 weed.
You could turn that into oil and bathe in it.
My little space is 2Wx5Lx9T
I grow in two 20 gallon fabric pots and usually get on average about 17-18oz per grow every 4-5 months.
Last grow I squeezed an extra 7 gal fabric in there and got 27.5oz in a 2x5.
The 7 gal was woefully inadequate so I managed a 10 gal this next time.
The larger your space the more its going to cost, especially for quality lighting.
So I would figure what you need bud wise every 6 months and then go with the size space that can achieve that goal.
My recommendation would honestly be to start small, and go with Living Organic Soil.
Everyone seems to believe its difficult but it really isn't, I think its easier.
Don't really have to mess with pH'ing water or mixing nutrients.
Watering is pretty simple as long as you get your soil tilth right from the beginning, you start out the cover crop and small cannabis plant in veg with about 5% of water by soil volume.
The first week when its just cover crop about 1/2 to 3/4 gallon is fine.
So a 20 gallon pot once everything is growing you water about 1 gal of water EVERYDAY and its best to oxygenate your water if possible.
In flower you move up to 10% of soil volume so between 1.5-2 gallons of water EVERYDAY, never let the soil dry out just keep it moist.
Do a top dress with compost right before flower, maybe a couple Sprouted Seed Teas during veg and thats it, pretty simple.
You just keep the soil moist and the soil does all the work for you.
The key is the best soil you can get your grubby little hands on and get it properly set up and just grow soil for a couple weeks, get a little cover crop growing to get roots into the soil, inoculate the soil with mycorrhazae.
Toss in a few worms.
Put a light mulch layer of barley straw on top until the cover crop comes in then add a thick layer when you transplant in your cannabis plant.
Buy some Rove beetles at that point which will take care of all the inevitable fungus gnats.
Then just water daily and LST when its time.
How much bud do you need say for 6 months?
A 6x6 is fairly large, you could grow like 6 plants each in 20 gallon pots and if properly LST'd could get 3 pounds every 5 months pretty easily.
Thats A LOT 0 weed.
You could turn that into oil and bathe in it.
My little space is 2Wx5Lx9T
I grow in two 20 gallon fabric pots and usually get on average about 17-18oz per grow every 4-5 months.
Last grow I squeezed an extra 7 gal fabric in there and got 27.5oz in a 2x5.
The 7 gal was woefully inadequate so I managed a 10 gal this next time.
The larger your space the more its going to cost, especially for quality lighting.
So I would figure what you need bud wise every 6 months and then go with the size space that can achieve that goal.
My recommendation would honestly be to start small, and go with Living Organic Soil.
Everyone seems to believe its difficult but it really isn't, I think its easier.
Don't really have to mess with pH'ing water or mixing nutrients.
Watering is pretty simple as long as you get your soil tilth right from the beginning, you start out the cover crop and small cannabis plant in veg with about 5% of water by soil volume.
The first week when its just cover crop about 1/2 to 3/4 gallon is fine.
So a 20 gallon pot once everything is growing you water about 1 gal of water EVERYDAY and its best to oxygenate your water if possible.
In flower you move up to 10% of soil volume so between 1.5-2 gallons of water EVERYDAY, never let the soil dry out just keep it moist.
Do a top dress with compost right before flower, maybe a couple Sprouted Seed Teas during veg and thats it, pretty simple.
You just keep the soil moist and the soil does all the work for you.
The key is the best soil you can get your grubby little hands on and get it properly set up and just grow soil for a couple weeks, get a little cover crop growing to get roots into the soil, inoculate the soil with mycorrhazae.
Toss in a few worms.
Put a light mulch layer of barley straw on top until the cover crop comes in then add a thick layer when you transplant in your cannabis plant.
Buy some Rove beetles at that point which will take care of all the inevitable fungus gnats.
Then just water daily and LST when its time.
Nunyabiz
Well-Known Member
Oh, as for soil i don't think there's any better than Buildasoil V3 for just mostly water only soil.
Just buy 3 bags per 20 gallon fabric pot.
You need some Yucca Extract, Aloe Vera, Coconut water, a microbe inoculant, small amount of Alfalfa seeds for seed tea.
Cover crop seeds.
Humidifier, Dehumidifier
Inline fans for air exchange in tent, small fans in tent for circulation.
No "need" for any C02 at least not until you can get everything else 100% dialed in to perfection first.
Quality lights.
20 gallon fabric pots
Pot elevators for airspace under pots.
Mulch
Quality aged compost for top dress.
Rove beetles for pest management.
Just buy 3 bags per 20 gallon fabric pot.
You need some Yucca Extract, Aloe Vera, Coconut water, a microbe inoculant, small amount of Alfalfa seeds for seed tea.
Cover crop seeds.
Humidifier, Dehumidifier
Inline fans for air exchange in tent, small fans in tent for circulation.
No "need" for any C02 at least not until you can get everything else 100% dialed in to perfection first.
Quality lights.
20 gallon fabric pots
Pot elevators for airspace under pots.
Mulch
Quality aged compost for top dress.
Rove beetles for pest management.
Mayne
Well-Known Member
his head is spinning now bro, lol..
tblspoon of cinnamon for every gallon of soil will keep gnats under control. never see them.
tblspoon of cinnamon for every gallon of soil will keep gnats under control. never see them.
Nunyabiz
Well-Known Member
Could be i guess.
But really it just boils down to buy soil, put in pot, water soil, watch it grow.
Mayne
Well-Known Member
yah, i was just messin, he seems versed in the game, just a matter of using money for something he intendes to give to someone for being a nice guy,
the crappiest part of this hobby, is watering, lol.
the crappiest part of this hobby, is watering, lol.
Southerncough
Well-Known Member
With the gear you have on hand you can accomplish a lot. As for what next depends on what your goals are, etc.
Maybe after a few harvests you could dedicate the lights you already own as veg lights and upgrade to something with more power for heavier harvests?
I managed for my first two years under blurples and did...okay. If you're growing for someone else and footing most of the bill then they should be thankful for the free meds in whatever form they come right?
In the meanwhile if you want to go hydro or soil or coco or whatever there's plenty of experienced gardeners here to lend priceless advice, especially since the availability and advancements of gear and knowledge have come so far even in the last few years it's a better time than ever. Except for those of us growing the devil's lettuce in the bible belt that have to lay low and avoid johnny law !
Maybe after a few harvests you could dedicate the lights you already own as veg lights and upgrade to something with more power for heavier harvests?
I managed for my first two years under blurples and did...okay. If you're growing for someone else and footing most of the bill then they should be thankful for the free meds in whatever form they come right?
In the meanwhile if you want to go hydro or soil or coco or whatever there's plenty of experienced gardeners here to lend priceless advice, especially since the availability and advancements of gear and knowledge have come so far even in the last few years it's a better time than ever. Except for those of us growing the devil's lettuce in the bible belt that have to lay low and avoid johnny law !
- Thread starter
- #20
That did sound like a lot just skimming the list quickly at work, but it really isn't , cover crops might not be possible , I already planned on the full setup to go inside the tent, and as far as qaulity lighting goes , the lady I bought these six and four lights from actually had some pretty impressive grow pics , and I am one upping an XL 750, funny shit is I thought I caught a deal buying a 1400 led in a pawn shop for 500, which it was a pretty hot deal, but later I found out they have XL100's for 500 used on eBay, wanna pick one up fairly soon, maybe some HPS lights on a rail, I honestly at this moment don't wanna spend a 1000 plus on a Gavita , or HGL ,but if we are actually filling that room at some point , I'd consider bending my stance on profiteering to upgrade equipment,lol. And I will be taking at least half of the harvest, I am just buying all the shit because she won't admit it is all needed not to make mediocre shit, that is what keeps killing me,lol, I have to convince her one step at a time every bit of it is necessary. But imma just start where I should have get a fully regulated environment, and go from there , hope these half doted on half neglected batches still do ok,lol.
