VI's - Subcool Based - 2 Worm - Multi-Strain - Mother Hunt - 2016
- Thread starter Papageno
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #282
Soooo??? You just read all of this madness?
I apologize as I aints so goods at the typing...especially now that I am back to medicating.
Hope it helps you in someway. If you have any questions at all just ask. I do this journal for you guys...
Sounds to me though you already gots a handle on proper growing...?
It is a never ending journey for many like myself. If you want to go pro you make a decision and do it that way and really dial it in. But I am a wanderer who has dabbled all over. I wont stop dabbling ever likely. There is too much too experiment with and experience.
I apologize as I aints so goods at the typing...especially now that I am back to medicating.
Hope it helps you in someway. If you have any questions at all just ask. I do this journal for you guys...
Sounds to me though you already gots a handle on proper growing...?
It is a never ending journey for many like myself. If you want to go pro you make a decision and do it that way and really dial it in. But I am a wanderer who has dabbled all over. I wont stop dabbling ever likely. There is too much too experiment with and experience.
Well I was around page 14.
I have had a NM personal production card since January 2012. There have been a lot of ups and downs. I can tell a lot more disaster stories than I can tell killer grow stories.
I mixed my first batch of soil about 5 0r 6 weeks ago that the focus was on achieving a higher BRIX. So, I am not that far along. I had a lot of help from some members on SweetSues' soil thread. Robert Celt helped. I noticed he has posted here.
Anyway, it made about 30 gallons and I put about 26 of it in a whisky barrel and dropped a Kosher Kush in it two weeks after mixing. So far so good, it never got hot and the PH is running around 7 with a probe three weeks after up potting.
I am going to have to start another batch soon so I probably will want to ask some questions then.
When it comes to tea making, I am a novice. I have learned some things on your thread already.
I thought I had copied some things over to Word that you posted that I want to look over again, apparently not. Maybe I will skim the few pages I missed tomorrow and check back in.
Thanks for the welcome.
Best
canyon
I have had a NM personal production card since January 2012. There have been a lot of ups and downs. I can tell a lot more disaster stories than I can tell killer grow stories.
I mixed my first batch of soil about 5 0r 6 weeks ago that the focus was on achieving a higher BRIX. So, I am not that far along. I had a lot of help from some members on SweetSues' soil thread. Robert Celt helped. I noticed he has posted here.
Anyway, it made about 30 gallons and I put about 26 of it in a whisky barrel and dropped a Kosher Kush in it two weeks after mixing. So far so good, it never got hot and the PH is running around 7 with a probe three weeks after up potting.
I am going to have to start another batch soon so I probably will want to ask some questions then.
When it comes to tea making, I am a novice. I have learned some things on your thread already.
I thought I had copied some things over to Word that you posted that I want to look over again, apparently not. Maybe I will skim the few pages I missed tomorrow and check back in.
Thanks for the welcome.
Best
canyon
- Thread starter
- #284
I posted a step by step on the tea here
VI's - Subcool Based - 2 Worm - Multi-Strain - Mother Hunt - 2016
If you have any questions at all after reading that post just ask. Understand I change that recipe a bit up and down on things based on the stage.
Growing cannabis is great but when you start doing this you become more interested in growing your compost and teas. Trying to get that supper strong tea is always fun. I keep coming up with little tweaks to make it higher in microbial activity.
The microbes grow best at 7.0. The tea is at 7 when they are really winning the war. You don't have to worry about pH and uptake of nutes when you have a high microbial colony in there. So as long as you focus on brewing the tea strong nothing else matters. Just keep it growing.
If you analyze my calendar there you will see in the beginning I feed the microbes that were inherently there and the modest tea I gave early with a lot of sugar. So as long as they are there and kicking you are winning. You can do that 2 ways...by keeping them alive by dumping in sugar or by bumping in reinforcements. Periodically you should do it any way. I have found about a 2 week cycle is good. Tea once every 2 weeks with sugar in between and if you do that right you really only have to worry about finding your bong and lighter at the same time.
VI's - Subcool Based - 2 Worm - Multi-Strain - Mother Hunt - 2016
If you have any questions at all after reading that post just ask. Understand I change that recipe a bit up and down on things based on the stage.
Growing cannabis is great but when you start doing this you become more interested in growing your compost and teas. Trying to get that supper strong tea is always fun. I keep coming up with little tweaks to make it higher in microbial activity.
The microbes grow best at 7.0. The tea is at 7 when they are really winning the war. You don't have to worry about pH and uptake of nutes when you have a high microbial colony in there. So as long as you focus on brewing the tea strong nothing else matters. Just keep it growing.
If you analyze my calendar there you will see in the beginning I feed the microbes that were inherently there and the modest tea I gave early with a lot of sugar. So as long as they are there and kicking you are winning. You can do that 2 ways...by keeping them alive by dumping in sugar or by bumping in reinforcements. Periodically you should do it any way. I have found about a 2 week cycle is good. Tea once every 2 weeks with sugar in between and if you do that right you really only have to worry about finding your bong and lighter at the same time.
millertm
Well-Known Member
Great job on explanation and color contrasting. Very healthy looking grow.
Cheers
Sent from my SPH-L720T using 420
Cheers
Sent from my SPH-L720T using 420
- Thread starter
- #286
Thanks for the encouragement!
Some times my camera sux and half the pics I took aren't there. but...
I never showed the side view really.
Reminds me of the days of perpetual. Now think and about that but like 5 deep 8 weeks (easy to run 2 and a control that way 8 experiments at once!)
And wait for it...wait for it... (thanks for crossing your fingers)
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They're BAaaaaaaaACK!
Multiple sites starting up again. I might get something out of this NYPD yet! Hopefully no more chitosan for that one and she will be fine.
Its in the wrist...just swish and flick.
Some times my camera sux and half the pics I took aren't there. but...
I never showed the side view really.
Reminds me of the days of perpetual. Now think and about that but like 5 deep 8 weeks (easy to run 2 and a control that way 8 experiments at once!)
And wait for it...wait for it... (thanks for crossing your fingers)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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They're BAaaaaaaaACK!
Multiple sites starting up again. I might get something out of this NYPD yet! Hopefully no more chitosan for that one and she will be fine.
Its in the wrist...just swish and flick.
- Thread starter
- #287
On a totally different topic.
Last grow I had a dud. I had this seed that came up auto topped (that means it didn't have a main stalk and immediately branched into two branches). Most pros toss those but I aint no pro. It is a sign usually of crap phenotypes that are garbage ..they work but are slow to grow and never catch up. In fact my last big one was as big as it was becasue I kept growing the other 3 until this girl filled in the last corner. With her so far behind the others got good and big.
Anyway the thing took everything I had to make it healthy enough the consider blooming. I mean I threw a ton at it. I fully bloomed it but it was full garbage. Seriously not even worth making butter. By the end of the grow all the fan leaves were gone and none of the buds were close to mature and the thing just failed. I mean it was a big girl and I could have done a few things but I didn't have the patience for this one.
Of special note during bloom the thing smelled more of lemons than lemons. It was the most startling smell I have had from weed. I have smelled cured lemon haze and kush but fresh pungent lemon is so bright and in your face. WOW.
So anywho. I cloned her like I clone everything and I hadn't the heart back in February to kill them. I figured it was cold outside and a frost would do it for me. So instead I planted the clones out back first week of February.
Well thanks to global warming it has been in the mid 80's here and acting like full summer for weeks and I have a 37" tall lemon haze plant that I will have to cut down soon when I put the house on the market soon. Or do you think that ups the home value?
Last grow I had a dud. I had this seed that came up auto topped (that means it didn't have a main stalk and immediately branched into two branches). Most pros toss those but I aint no pro. It is a sign usually of crap phenotypes that are garbage ..they work but are slow to grow and never catch up. In fact my last big one was as big as it was becasue I kept growing the other 3 until this girl filled in the last corner. With her so far behind the others got good and big.
Anyway the thing took everything I had to make it healthy enough the consider blooming. I mean I threw a ton at it. I fully bloomed it but it was full garbage. Seriously not even worth making butter. By the end of the grow all the fan leaves were gone and none of the buds were close to mature and the thing just failed. I mean it was a big girl and I could have done a few things but I didn't have the patience for this one.
Of special note during bloom the thing smelled more of lemons than lemons. It was the most startling smell I have had from weed. I have smelled cured lemon haze and kush but fresh pungent lemon is so bright and in your face. WOW.
So anywho. I cloned her like I clone everything and I hadn't the heart back in February to kill them. I figured it was cold outside and a frost would do it for me. So instead I planted the clones out back first week of February.
Well thanks to global warming it has been in the mid 80's here and acting like full summer for weeks and I have a 37" tall lemon haze plant that I will have to cut down soon when I put the house on the market soon. Or do you think that ups the home value?
Jacobsenji
Well-Known Member
Fantastic ! That's what my grow wants to look like when it grows up
- Thread starter
- #289
- Thread starter
- #290
solareclipse
Well-Known Member
subs....many pages i will take my time to read it slowly to unerstand everything....special staff for special people
- Thread starter
- #292
VI,
Forgive the late reply; it has been rather hectic around here.
Do you have a standard set of amendments that you are using for soil mixes? You said that this run was not a normal run.
Jumping over to the teas, how long can you keep it going by adding molasses and oat meal? Are you adding Chitosan to the tea or are you just adding crab meal?
Your use of Fluvic acid caused me to do more reading. I have been using Humic acid. It turns out that Fluvic acid is a large molecule that is small enough to be obsorbed by the plant and aids in uptake. Humic acid is much larger molecule and is too large to be taken up by the plant. It breaks down compounds in the soil so they can be taken up by the plant. I am thinking using both may be a better way to go in soil. Any way I ordered a gallon of the Fluvic acid yesterday.
Best
canyon
Forgive the late reply; it has been rather hectic around here.
Do you have a standard set of amendments that you are using for soil mixes? You said that this run was not a normal run.
Jumping over to the teas, how long can you keep it going by adding molasses and oat meal? Are you adding Chitosan to the tea or are you just adding crab meal?
Your use of Fluvic acid caused me to do more reading. I have been using Humic acid. It turns out that Fluvic acid is a large molecule that is small enough to be obsorbed by the plant and aids in uptake. Humic acid is much larger molecule and is too large to be taken up by the plant. It breaks down compounds in the soil so they can be taken up by the plant. I am thinking using both may be a better way to go in soil. Any way I ordered a gallon of the Fluvic acid yesterday.
Best
canyon
- Thread starter
- #294
The compost is actually very specific and is a recipe easily found on the internet. Now the recipe was made for a field of like 100 plants. Many people have done the math so instead of 1 box of this and 4 boxes of that it is 1/4 cup this and 1 cup of that... SO go onto You tube and search for "Subcools compost" and you will get flooded with results. Google works to for a pile of good reading on how to grow cannabis correctly. Just search the same string.
This may be the shortest video on it, includes the recipe ... but it doesn't splain nuthin...
Subcool Organic Super Soil Recipe - How to Make | Video Overview - YouTube
Yes I add a few more things but that is just becasue I can't leave good enough alone. I am probably making things worse but I can't help but add things that are in my tea that are not in Subcools recipe. But no huge changes.
The Biggest change I think is something that I think of as "standard" or "the way" to do things. something I think I skip over too often. I think most people are doing this these days so it seems to obvious to me to say it..but I am using recycled soil as the base. It is well known that the soil we use improves over time. If we keep reusing it it gets better and better and so do the plants. Eventually the soil breaks down and doesn't work and needs to be tossed. Some people mix a bit a fresh in each time and just keep it going and some make a fresh pile each time...but each pile is made for a previous grow.
So when just getting started you make a cheater batch. When you start bloom and sort out the males to start them composting. Then 3 months later when the grow is done the soil is ready. Use that on the next round and the females from the first round make a new pile for the third grow. Then you just keep recycling.
Yup ...this is the first time for me to grow using Subcools method. I have not done this before.
I am doing this journal just to show some folks how to do this cheaply. The up front cost is a bit cheaper but you buy the stuff in bulk and have enough for many many grows this way. So I wanted to have a place I could point to in the future to say if you want to do it for cheap and are willing to do the effort you can do it this way. It is way simpler then most other methods!!!!
I normally use the cheater method and the tea and some stuff you pay for. I have been experimenting more and more with the composts but normally I just make quick compost with the tea. In order to really get the best from the plant though you need to recycle the soil and the best way to do that is to re-compost it.
Maybe some day I will make a journal of something I grow how I want to but there are plenty of those journals. If I am making a journal it is for a purpose that is needed for the community. I don't have a need for this journal.
I have not pushed it. I have brought back the dead and gotten full breeding rolling at full tilt again after it looked dead at 48 Hours. I know a guy with a vortex brewer that runs flood and drain and he uses the vortex brewer as his res. Kinda just keeps it rolling. I don't know his dump frequency.
I feed about once every 2 weeks. More then that is not really needed. I make a little more then I need and use as much as I want. No need to keep extra I just make more in 2 weeks.
Just adding Crab meal. The tea breaks that down into chitosan. That is why we add the crab meal. And be careful as weaker strains may not respond well. So just use that in bloom until you know you want to test it in veg.
Also I have both Humic and Fulvic in mine just not so obvious. The humic comes in 2 forms. First off I have Humic standard powder that gets tossed in my compost bin (standard part of Subcools Compost). I throw in some of my compost pile soil into my compost tea and that gets me a little bit of everything a plant needs. Also...Ingredient number one or 2 depending how you look at it...is the ancient Alaskan forest soil. This is the source of humic acid. So not as concentrated but some there.
Anyway that fulvic is expensive stuff but it really does wonders. I think for healthy plants that have great roots it isn't as obvious. for weaker plants (some great strains are just weak) it can really help.
I tend to not have a problem with uptake. I mainly got it for hydro but it is just great stuff so why not use it in soil. I just use it sparingly as it is spendy.
Silica is too and that is a must. There are some things you must belly up to the bar and pay for. Fulvic is one that you don't need but it sure is nice.
VI,
Thanks, the reason I ask about the longevity of teas was because, I use RO water and have restarted using larger pots. At eight gallons an hour and trying to keep the water temperature up to something reasonable, it is easier to add teas over two days.
I have added crab meal and alfalfa in small quantities to the last two batches I made, about a table spoon of each in five gallons. The nitrogen level is a bit high but I am not seeing any leaf tip burn in vege yet. I will probably leave them out of the next round.
If every two weeks works for you, I will also go with that for a while.
I have used the Alaskan Forest as a top dressing and like it a lot. For a while it was rather easy to find in the towns I frequent. Then, it got hard to find. I have not seen any for probably two years now.
I have been using castings and adding some liquid Humic acid for the teas. I will add Fluvic acid to the next batch as well.
The rock dust I am using has trace amounts of Silica but not nearly enough. I have been adding about 5 ml of liquid to every third gallon of water unless I am adding Cal-Mag. Something precipitates out if I mix those two.
Thanks again for the input.
Best,
canyon
Thanks, the reason I ask about the longevity of teas was because, I use RO water and have restarted using larger pots. At eight gallons an hour and trying to keep the water temperature up to something reasonable, it is easier to add teas over two days.
I have added crab meal and alfalfa in small quantities to the last two batches I made, about a table spoon of each in five gallons. The nitrogen level is a bit high but I am not seeing any leaf tip burn in vege yet. I will probably leave them out of the next round.
If every two weeks works for you, I will also go with that for a while.
I have used the Alaskan Forest as a top dressing and like it a lot. For a while it was rather easy to find in the towns I frequent. Then, it got hard to find. I have not seen any for probably two years now.
I have been using castings and adding some liquid Humic acid for the teas. I will add Fluvic acid to the next batch as well.
The rock dust I am using has trace amounts of Silica but not nearly enough. I have been adding about 5 ml of liquid to every third gallon of water unless I am adding Cal-Mag. Something precipitates out if I mix those two.
Thanks again for the input.
Best,
canyon
- Thread starter
- #296
So when you start making the teas you will want that silica around. It is very alkaline. The good bacteria start to loose it when the pH is at about 5ish. Less than 6. They want to be at 7.0 and don't mind a point either way really. But after some time the pH will drop and the activity drops. Add the silica at that time until the pH is back to about 7.4ish and keep stiring for a few minutes. It will come back alive.
If you are using it in DWC introduce it through the medium so the microbes get into the rocks and roots up high.
The Crab meal, if tolerated, really boosts performance. But don't over do it.
Make sure to feed with sugars in between ...at least the top off right after.
In DWC the microbes will get in and clean the roots like those fish cleaning the gills of sharks. You may see huge uptake increase the next day and need to be prepared to top off big. I was draining about 1-2 gallons a day and topping off every few days with 5 gallons. Added the tea and was doing 5 gallons a day. So that made keeping the PPM high a bit more difficult. 5 gallons, no PPM change, no pH fluctuations really. Just soaking it up. That wont happen until after the res slows down. It could happen that when you add the tea it takes off again.
But as far as the ingredients go....man there is a ton of them. I always keep trying things here and there once in a while. Every now and then I add something. But in general you just need to know about plant needs and source ingredients and you can figure out a blend to suit your medium and grow style.
Some people just want the microbes and leave out half the stuff.
There are a lot of great ways to do it.... and a lot of real stupid things to do wrong.
I recommend both experimenting and reading up on it.
Never Trust me!!!! I am an idiot!!! Everything I am showing in this journal is common knowledge really...nothing special. I have no idea what I am doing!
If you are using it in DWC introduce it through the medium so the microbes get into the rocks and roots up high.
The Crab meal, if tolerated, really boosts performance. But don't over do it.
Make sure to feed with sugars in between ...at least the top off right after.
In DWC the microbes will get in and clean the roots like those fish cleaning the gills of sharks. You may see huge uptake increase the next day and need to be prepared to top off big. I was draining about 1-2 gallons a day and topping off every few days with 5 gallons. Added the tea and was doing 5 gallons a day. So that made keeping the PPM high a bit more difficult. 5 gallons, no PPM change, no pH fluctuations really. Just soaking it up. That wont happen until after the res slows down. It could happen that when you add the tea it takes off again.
But as far as the ingredients go....man there is a ton of them. I always keep trying things here and there once in a while. Every now and then I add something. But in general you just need to know about plant needs and source ingredients and you can figure out a blend to suit your medium and grow style.
Some people just want the microbes and leave out half the stuff.
There are a lot of great ways to do it.... and a lot of real stupid things to do wrong.
I recommend both experimenting and reading up on it.
Never Trust me!!!! I am an idiot!!! Everything I am showing in this journal is common knowledge really...nothing special. I have no idea what I am doing!
- Thread starter
- #297
All the stuff in my recipe I can get at the local indoor grow shop. I also have found it all online...but I have never made it from anything other then what I get from the local grow shop.
I have a good shop.
I would look around and see what is available and you should be able to find suitable replacements for everything. Only the Fulvic acid and the Alaskan Soil is hard to find really... and neither are required they just make things better.
I have a good shop.
I would look around and see what is available and you should be able to find suitable replacements for everything. Only the Fulvic acid and the Alaskan Soil is hard to find really... and neither are required they just make things better.
closetcase420
Well-Known Member
The microbes are the real beneficial aspect though right? You could use a very simple base like GH trio with microbe tea, calmag, silica and then a bloom booster..
- Thread starter
- #299
hmmmm
Sort of not really?! (there are 2 issues you bring up)
********* Disclaimer ***********
* This is about the tea in *
* Hydro not soil. The tea *
* works in both...the application *
* is a bit different *
******************************
All at once that might burn.
You can do either / or, but not both.
So the Tea will come out around 800PPM which is hot right? So that needs to be diluted in most cases. In fact in hydro you just dump about 4 cups over the medium per plant and measure the res a while later and mix up the top off to get back in line and then top off and continue on. No interruption to the schedule. That usually means some fresh water to dilute it down a bit.
This just takes the place of the nutes during one top off every 2 weeks. And depending it may not fully take the place of them or it may need to be diluted down a bit.
The tea has the side affect getting great microbes. That has been the evolution of brewing a fast compost tea. But originally it was about leaching out the nutrients from the compost into a liquid fertilizer. And it is still for that purpose that is gets mostly used in farming and industry.
This is the way many farms grow plants they just do it on a much larger scale. But they are outside and have microbes already. They are using the microbes in the tea to break down the compost to the stuff we want, not for the microbes themselves.
IN HYDRO though the game is a total mess of marketing and nonconforming bottle combinations that lock you into certain programs for no technical reason. I just showed you how to put it all in one bottle for pennies and I am an idiot...they could do it too if it made them money.
Anyway the microbes help a ton and clean up the res and roots and that is all great. But you don't need a tea for that. You can buy all of this stuff bottled up in various pre-combined concoctions and spend a lot of money. There is nothing really I am throwing in there you can 't just buy...but there is no reason for example to buy AN Nirvana and run this tea since the ingredients in nirvana that matter are all in the tea... Since you give Nirvana about once every 2 weeks that is taken care of for ya.
The tea is simply a combined version that you are in control of and you can serve to the plant fresh at the peak of microbial breeding and tune in whatever you want.
It also happens to fix most all growing problems.
If you want to get real about Hydro for second...
I have had great success using this super cheap stuff called Elanor's VF-11. Super cheap single bottle that comes complete with everything a plant needs. I have grown through all of veg on this with outstanding results for near no cost. I have not yet tried it in Bloom. But the next time I do hydro I was planning on trying to use just VF-11 and use my tea in bloom along side it and see if that works. That would be a supper cheap hydro run.
But The tea is not about one thing and if it were it is what is in the name...Liquid Compost.
Sort of not really?! (there are 2 issues you bring up)
********* Disclaimer ***********
* This is about the tea in *
* Hydro not soil. The tea *
* works in both...the application *
* is a bit different *
******************************
All at once that might burn.
You can do either / or, but not both.
So the Tea will come out around 800PPM which is hot right? So that needs to be diluted in most cases. In fact in hydro you just dump about 4 cups over the medium per plant and measure the res a while later and mix up the top off to get back in line and then top off and continue on. No interruption to the schedule. That usually means some fresh water to dilute it down a bit.
This just takes the place of the nutes during one top off every 2 weeks. And depending it may not fully take the place of them or it may need to be diluted down a bit.
The tea has the side affect getting great microbes. That has been the evolution of brewing a fast compost tea. But originally it was about leaching out the nutrients from the compost into a liquid fertilizer. And it is still for that purpose that is gets mostly used in farming and industry.
This is the way many farms grow plants they just do it on a much larger scale. But they are outside and have microbes already. They are using the microbes in the tea to break down the compost to the stuff we want, not for the microbes themselves.
IN HYDRO though the game is a total mess of marketing and nonconforming bottle combinations that lock you into certain programs for no technical reason. I just showed you how to put it all in one bottle for pennies and I am an idiot...they could do it too if it made them money.
Anyway the microbes help a ton and clean up the res and roots and that is all great. But you don't need a tea for that. You can buy all of this stuff bottled up in various pre-combined concoctions and spend a lot of money. There is nothing really I am throwing in there you can 't just buy...but there is no reason for example to buy AN Nirvana and run this tea since the ingredients in nirvana that matter are all in the tea... Since you give Nirvana about once every 2 weeks that is taken care of for ya.
The tea is simply a combined version that you are in control of and you can serve to the plant fresh at the peak of microbial breeding and tune in whatever you want.
It also happens to fix most all growing problems.
If you want to get real about Hydro for second...
I have had great success using this super cheap stuff called Elanor's VF-11. Super cheap single bottle that comes complete with everything a plant needs. I have grown through all of veg on this with outstanding results for near no cost. I have not yet tried it in Bloom. But the next time I do hydro I was planning on trying to use just VF-11 and use my tea in bloom along side it and see if that works. That would be a supper cheap hydro run.
But The tea is not about one thing and if it were it is what is in the name...Liquid Compost.
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