Titan Controls: Flo N Gro Review

[OG13]

I'm just wondering how everyone is vegging their plants to be put in this system. last run went well with noob mistakes i still ended up with just under 3. 8-9 week veg then 8-9 week flower is really putting a damper on things though id like to veg then to 20+ inches.

We veg in a flood and drain table 3 foot square, using smaller pots (shorter too, to reach the liquid level) then transplant a week before going into the flower room to the final size net baskets. You can use either smaller net baskets and transplant the entire basket (won't be reused) or use a straight sided "solid" pot w/ drain holes and transplant in the normal fashion....the balls hold together pretty well. A four week veg is more than enough if you have good light, three is about right for us using a 600 MH over that tray. They are hitting 20 to 24 inches by flower time. When they flower, they are 6 per 1000 HPS in roughly a 4 foot square area. Doing batches of 18 under 3 1000 HPS lights.

 

[Alaskan1]

xlr, herbman you guys still watching this thread? I'm just wondering how everyone is vegging their plants to be put in this system. last run went well with noob mistakes i still ended up with just under 3. 8-9 week veg then 8-9 week flower is really putting a damper on things though id like to veg then to 20+ inches. Im thinking about kicking my roomate out so i can buy another system. just lift the pots an switch to flower room would be ideal. How is everyone else doing this step?

I always watch this thread. May not answer right away but I will answer.

I started out vegging for 4 weeks but have moved that up to 6 weeks and thats working a lot better. Plants tend to be a bit bigger that way.

You can use a the system a couple of ways. The one I'm doing is I have 3 rooms with 3 flo n gro systems. I use one room for veg and the 2 other as flower rooms. Just transfer the pot once the veg grow part is done.

 

[Alaskan1]

Me personally have been putting rooted clones into the system and then vegging for 2-3 weeks then flipping. But that's mainly because I'm restricted to about 6 feet total height including lights and buckets so my plants can only be about 3 foot max. And to the poster above I have a space of about 10x6 ft and the 12 buckets are almost too much I was thinking about dropping it to 9 next run. For a whole 12 I would love to have a 6 light, roughly 10x20 foot room would be perfect for how I would want this system. I believe xlr8 used to do 6 buckets in like a 3x6 or something like that.

4 pots in a 4x4 area is about perfect for a 1000 watt light. Anythng more then that and no enough light gets through to the plants. More light equals bigger and happier plants.

 

[OG13]

Dear xlr8,
I am a total newbie and brand new to this site. I so appreciate the review! I am wanting to try this system in a tent. I have a couple questions Id be very grateful if you could answer at your conveiniece:

1. Is this sort of system appropriate for a newbie?
2. Can I run this sort of system in a tent? My primary concern is humidity. (ill do whatever i need to in order to make it work)
3. 15 plants are the legal limit in my state. How much tent do I need to do at least 12 to a decent size? (5x9? 8x8? etc.)
Im not rich. But, I definately want to do it right. I would greatly appreciate any brand names or specs your experiences deem necessary.
Thank you very much for your time! joemungus

1. Yes, if you can follow instructions from the nute vendor and create a good climate (temp, humidity, co2 or plenty of air exchange).
2. Yes, see Alaskan for his grows, xlr8 and others have good grows in tents. Humidity is only one part of a good climate.
3. What is "decent sized"? Start with a decent sized tent to experiment with, 8x8 or so. Get plenty of fans (inlet and exhaust), carbon filters if needed (yes unless you are in the boondocks), climate controller like from Sentinel, dehumidifier (may not need during the winter if you are lucky, will need by next spring), AC even in the winter depending on how many lights, may need a heater. Don't forget the lights 2 to 3) and Flo n Gro and expansion. The climate controller is the key piece, don't cheap out there, get one that controls everything if you want to be successful. If you can't control the climate, you won't be successful. Humidity is not the chief concern, just part of the big picture.

Have I mentioned that you need to control the environment? We don't use a tent, just a big room with 14X 1000 HPS, but the same rules apply.

 

[Xlr8]

Dear xlr8,
I am a total newbie and brand new to this site. I so appreciate the review! I am wanting to try this system in a tent. I have a couple questions Id be very grateful if you could answer at your conveiniece:

1. Is this sort of system appropriate for a newbie?
2. Can I run this sort of system in a tent? My primary concern is humidity. (ill do whatever i need to in order to make it work)
3. 15 plants are the legal limit in my state. How much tent do I need to do at least 12 to a decent size? (5x9? 8x8? etc.)
Im not rich. But, I definately want to do it right. I would greatly appreciate any brand names or specs your experiences deem necessary.
Thank you very much for your time! joemungus

Hi Joe -

Actually, I think it's a great system for a newbie compared to many other styles. Overall, it's a pretty easy to manage system once it's dialed in. As mentioned, the first prerequisite should be to make sure you can control your environment sufficiently. It really is a huge factor, and often the difference between success and failure. Plants that are too hot or too cold won't use nutrients optimally, and will struggle to grow. Too much humidity, and you will risk mold or pathogen problems. Not enough, and they will be too busy drinking water to do much else... you get the idea. The other replies to your post are all spot on.

Yes, it can be run in a tent. I ran it in a pretty small tent (about 3x5), but I did get creative to do so and used a limited number of buckets. As far as how much space you need, and the quantity, the other posters gave great advice. So much depends on what you would consider "decent sized". Depending on how long you veg them, the size can vary greatly. Strain, training/defoliation, and other factors come into play. If you want to grow sizable plants, then 8 x 8 is probably a good place to start for a tent if you go that route. The best advice I could probably give you is difficult advice for most to follow: start small, with a limited number of plants, until you gain confidence in your skills and abilities. There is so much to learn that is best learned through experience, and scaling up can make that education easier. Too many plants right off the bat can be a lesson in heartache and frustration, as it becomes a lot to manage. It's always tempting to plant seeds and ask questions later, which can work, but often ends in headaches and sick plants.

As OG and others mentioned, master your climate. If you can afford to get a dehumidifier, an AC (depending on where you live and other options you have to keep things cool) and run them with a controller (something that would automatically turn on the AC or dehumidifier as necessary) you would be off to a great start. If you can't swing that, make sure you have some way to keep the climate ideal. Generally speaking, they like the same climate we do. 70's to 80's in temps, 45-60% relative humidity (closer to 45% in bloom). Make a comfy home before planting seeds and you'll be smarter than most of us starting out!

Again, all the other responses to your question are excellent and should be considered - you are in good hands here! Like Alaskan mentioned, I also will always try to watch this thread, even if it takes me a day or two to respond. Feel free to ask any other questions you have here.

X

 

[Xlr8]

xlr, herbman you guys still watching this thread? I'm just wondering how everyone is vegging their plants to be put in this system. last run went well with noob mistakes i still ended up with just under 3. 8-9 week veg then 8-9 week flower is really putting a damper on things though id like to veg then to 20+ inches. Im thinking about kicking my roomate out so i can buy another system. just lift the pots an switch to flower room would be ideal. How is everyone else doing this step?

I have gone two ways. I have used DIY rubbermaid totes that were really basic DWC systems for vegging. Basically a tote with airstones that has holes cut into the lid, with net pots in the holes. This is low-budget, easy to fabricate, and works pretty well. I take the netpots out of the tote when I'm ready to transplant them, and bury the netpot and all in the hydroton within the Flo N Grow bucket.

Additionally, I have used my own homemade flood and drain system, again using netpots and totes, but flooding the rubbermaid totes. The details are in one of my last journals... Once again, when I'm ready to transplant, I just remove the netpot with the plant in it and transplant it by burying the netpot at the appropriate height in the Flo and Grow buckets. Works great.

As long as you can veg in a system that has removable netpots, they are easy to bury roots and all, unremoved, directly into the flo n grow rocks.

Hope that helps!

 

[joemungus]

Dear xlr8, Awesome! Im feeling very inspired! Greatly apprec. your time and willingness to help! The more I learn the less I know. This is a good thing. Im not afraid to jump out of the plane. It helps so much to know Im learning from folks who can correctly pack a chute. Im convinced you folks know which mistakes im likely to make first. Thank you again! Im rethinking the 5x9. Most likely to go 8x8 or larger. Besides A/c and a dehu, Ill definately need more lights than id planned for the larger tent. Right now Im looking for an electrician to come get me up to spec. Wifey will be plenty upset if I burn us out! Every reply i get makes me aware of more obstacles I might encounter. So glad I didnt go buy one of those slapped together "grow tent kits" some places sell. I need room to move in there as well. Since I'm only allowed 15 in my state... Id like them bumping the ceiling if possible. Im not worried about how many cycles i can get in a year. I also apprec. the wisdom of being able to leave for a couple of days. Thank you again for the replies and letting me creep thru your journals!
Sincerely, Joemungus.

 

[joemungus]

Dear Goldengoose, thank you so much for letting me creep thru your journals! I mean to reply sooner. My work often has me running on either little sleep. Or, gone for longer than a night. Im trying to soak it all in. I just cant believe how courteous and respectful everyone is. Im very grateful for your shared wisdom and experience. Thank you so much, again! joemungus

 

[Hiker]

I realize I'm late to the party, but like AK1 and Xlr8, I'm a bucket guy too, so I still watch this thread...

Dear xlr8,
I am a total newbie and brand new to this site. I so appreciate the review! I am wanting to try this system in a tent. I have a couple questions Id be very grateful if you could answer at your conveiniece:

1. Is this sort of system appropriate for a newbie?
2. Can I run this sort of system in a tent? My primary concern is humidity. (ill do whatever i need to in order to make it work)
3. 15 plants are the legal limit in my state. How much tent do I need to do at least 12 to a decent size? (5x9? 8x8? etc.)
Im not rich. But, I definately want to do it right. I would greatly appreciate any brand names or specs your experiences deem necessary.
Thank you very much for your time! joemungus

1. Yes. I love bucket systems. It's like growing each plant in a pot with soil, ie you can move them, but with the benefits of hydro.

2. Tents work. I prefer a room, but there are as many ways to grow as growers. The only potential issue I see is the tent frame. You have to have the brain bucket inside the tent, or your hose will have to go up and over the bottom frame. If you're trying to pack the tent full, you may not have room for the brain bucket. If you're making huge bushes, then there should be plenty of room inside the tent for the bucket in between the other buckets.

3. How much space depends on how big you grow your plants. How long to veg will also depend on the strain and environment. This is something you're going to have to learn through experience. You will eventually figure out exactly how long your strain needs to veg in order to end up with plants the size you want in flower.

xlr, herbman you guys still watching this thread? I'm just wondering how everyone is vegging their plants to be put in this system. last run went well with noob mistakes i still ended up with just under 3. 8-9 week veg then 8-9 week flower is really putting a damper on things though id like to veg then to 20+ inches. Im thinking about kicking my roomate out so i can buy another system. just lift the pots an switch to flower room would be ideal. How is everyone else doing this step?

I veg in the same room I flower right now. My clones are started in my DIY aero cloner, so I have bare root clones when I put them into the buckets. transplant is super easy. Flood the buckets while they are only about 2/3 full of rock. The rock will float enough that you can just wiggle the roots down into them. The first time I tried it, I was pleasantly surprised how well it worked. I left my clones in the cloner for a couple weeks after the rooted, so some had pretty large roots already. I then veg them for a couple weeks in the buckets then flip to 12/12.

When I eventually add a dedicated veg area, I'm planning to do like X and AK, I'll have a flood and tray/tote with 1g nursery pots. The root mass mostly stays intact, so you can transplant these plants pretty much the same as a soil plant.

I've never quite understood why this style of system is not more popular. Especially given the height restrictions so many growers deal with.

 

[Unreal207]

Thanks for the quick replies. I went through my options an figured a nice 2x4 flood table would be nice the guy at my local grow shop suggested take the clones from my cloner an put them into 1 gal mesh pots with hydroton, I like the idea. mu issue is my veg room will be into the hallway to my flowr room on the 3rd floor where the room is slanted |\ kind of like that where i cant secure my T5 light. I really want to look into DIY setups but. 2x4 flood table with the metal frame that has the light attachment with 14 1 gal pots they were asking $385. Answered solved i dont have to do anything but put it together. As far as Alaskan said with light I agree 4 per 1000 is the sweet spot for me. My plan for next run is to get 2x 1000's on light movers and I think that will be perfect for 6 plants. I am 4 weeks into flower right now and my room has been hovering at 65-75% humidity. Im not concerned about mold I have an AC setup that i havent taken out of the room yet so if it gets to a certain point i can turn it on i just dont want my Neighbor to think anything of me running an AC in the end of Oct in Maine...My only issue was i thought i remember reading somewhere that plants dont absorb as much Co2 with higher RH. which i am dumping 1200 ppm of Co2 in there daily if the uptake isnt what it should be them im wasting some money there. if someone could enlighten me would be appreciated!!

 

[Xlr8]

Hey there Unreal -

Co2 optimization is one area that I've never really gained a lot of expertise or knowledge on. I'm sure there are others that can weigh in with good info, however.

I think you'd be wise to get the RH closer to 40-50% soon if possible. Higher humidity is favored by vegging plants more than flowering ones, and mold will be a concern you won't want to deal with or worry about. One way to do it without running the AC, is just adding a couple fans circulating air in the room. Fans on their own can sometimes have a dramatic effect on lowering RH. Personally, I invested in a decent dehumidifier (couple hundred dollars?), and placed it near the intake for my room. Less conspicuous than an AC, as there are always reasons for having a dehumidifier running any time of year (maybe you spilled something, had a plumbing leak, etc.).



X

 

[jaxom101]

Is Growing them in dirt till about 8" ok? I have the Clones started now and will be getting a 5x10 Tent with a 12 Pot Flo-n-grow in a Month. I plan on letting them settle in for about a week before flipping to 12/12.

 

[Xlr8]

Is Growing them in dirt till about 8" ok? I have the Clones started now and will be getting a 5x10 Tent with a 12 Pot Flo-n-grow in a Month. I plan on letting them settle in for about a week before flipping to 12/12.

I would not advise starting them in dirt first. Dirt and hydroponics don't often mix well. It would be better to use a more hydroponic-friendly cloning method. I prefer to use rapid rooter plugs, but a bubble cloner, or other non soil cloning system/hydro cloner would work fine too.

 

[jaxom101]

I do use the Rapid Rooter Plugs to clone. But I'm still worried about the timing. I have to take the Clones in about a week. The Plants have to move to 12/12 that I'm getting the clones from. I'm already worried they are getting to big but I'm on week 7 for the plants that are in the Tent now.

They normally show good Roots in about 2 weeks and I might still be 4 weeks from getting the Flo-n-Grow. I just don't know if I can stretch them 4 weeks in small rooting plugs. What would be the best thing to put them in for the 4 weeks if I'm going to be using Growstones in the Flo-n-Grow for 4 weeks?

 

[jaxom101]

Made a decision and they will be moved into small pots with the same Medium I will be using in the Flo-n-Grow and I will just have to hand water several times a day till I get my system

 

[Xlr8]

Made a decision and they will be moved into small pots with the same Medium I will be using in the Flo-n-Grow and I will just have to hand water several times a day till I get my system

Jaxom, sorry for the delay answering your follow-up question... I'd do exactly what you are doing, and have done it... it'll work fine as long as you are diligent. If you use a netpot, that netpot can then be simply buried in the medium of the Flo N Grow once you transfer them to the system (you don't even have to take it out of the netpot). I've used solo beer cups, too, filled with clay balls/hydroton (what I used for medium. I poked several holes in the bottom of the cup, and then watered them letting the excess drain out of the bottom to a saucer below, etc. It works!



X

 

[Hiker]

wow my subs all reset back to sometime in November. Weird

I missed your posts too Jaxon.

How did it turn out? If you were diligent for a couple weeks, you should have had no problems. Rock holds more water then you think. It makes for a very humid microclimate down there.



Hey X or AK, I know this is the Titan thread, but you know I run the CAP system. I like my cap system, but I heard they are out of business.

I'm getting ready to buy, or build, another E&F bucket system and wanted to get your feedback if you don't mind. This will be a second system. I will still be using the existing system. So I'm undecided on what to do for this second system.

The Titan is very much like my system. It does not lend itself to my modification as well though. I add extra pieces of tubing, and the extra fitting needed, between the main line and each site. This lets me move them around more. What I like I can just "wind" the excess tubing around the bucket. I attach them with an elbow, so the line is already pointing to go that way. I "unwind" the tubing when I want to move the bucket around. It works well, but I don't think these square buckets will do this very well. This isn't a deal breaker, but I really like how my system works with this modification. The square buckets can probably still have hose wrapped around them. Hopefully the corners won't make it kink though.

I've also looked at the Sentinel system. This is a very well designed system and addresses most, or all(?), of the things I don't like about the CAP system (some of these problems are shared with the Titan system I think). One of the things I don't like is the little pool of water at the bottom of the buckets. CAP tried to address this in later outer bucket designs, but I still put risers under my buckets to get a thorough drain. I really like the Sentinel buckets' bottom drain. I Especially like that the controller will be on the wall, not the brain bucket. This is one of the big issues I have with the system I have, and the Titan system.

This leads to my third option, DIY. I'm sure you have seen the DIY kit available online. I'm a very DIY kinda guy, but time is something in short supply these days. I haven't looked into it a lot yet, but I'm sure one of the online plastics suppliers would have some nice 3-4g buckets (maybe something wider and shorter?) I could use. One concern I have is leaks, but my CAP system doesn't leak, so these o-rings seem to work well.

Anyway, have you seen or used any other systems? Would you still recommend the Titan over any other system? How hard would it be to move that controller box off the brain bucket and onto the wall? (I am VERY skilled with electronics. Worked in that industry for awhile before moving to computers)

Thanks in advance. Did you guys ever work on that howto collaboration? Ebb & Flow in a bucket systems are still my favorite style of system.

 

[Adaptist]

After reading every piece i want to say you guys are all great and my suggestion is dive in head first after all its only ankle deep that way.

I want to explain my system set up at the time in 06 when i got it. There was no research done on my part only from knowledge of my mothers talks of alternative energy and off grid life. She has a masters degree, i have years of her torment and unwanted lectures which in the end gave me the benefit of educated guess how to slap the system up. I must ad that was sept of 06 it is now april of 14. Same system same controllers still working.

The flow and grow is for the most is trouble free. but it is not trouble free and has limits.

I have been told in my area of my circle of he said she saids I am the last growing in full hydro everyone else has gone back to dirt or has part dirt part hydro.

my first step was ditch the 55 gal res tanks. Instead use two 110 gal for each 24 bucket system.

I use the top tank fitted with a float valve right from the fresh R/O 200. I simply ad drip clean. All three top tanks are mounted level and have 1-1/2" sink drain in center of the bottom with same size ball valve.

The bottom tank has a 3" drop and a bath tub drain with a ball valve. I also mounted a float from fresh well water supply for flush and rinse purposes. this tank houses the nutes and is cleaned and changed weekly. I dropped my fill pump in by the drain. long story short installed a tee on sch 40 with ball valve for two reasons. the first was had to drill hole to cure syphon problem. the second was i could slow down the fill rate. if the control bucket fills to fast and limits out it dont re-start on the fill cycle. The return from the control bucket to the res has sch 40 and to ball valves in order to direct flow to res or switch to drain to waist.

The control bucket has few problems mainly from pump not working correctly you just unplug it wait a bit and plug it back in. Now in a few events i had to unplug it and tip it on its back then plug it back in. Normally the pump gets plugged or just catches air i removed the mounting bracket to help. all easy fixes if you catch it soon enough you have no over or under watering. After my first drowning each res tank got a camera to monitor levels remotely.

i built my first cloner with black 5 gal pail and lid cut out 12 and a half holes in the lid with hole saw added a pump and a heater an air stone little adapt with tee fitting those yellow spray jets into the 1/2" hose worked great with root tech and clone X and a 250 watt cmfl Blue. i later found i needed 24 place so i bought botanicare 48 place. it has some leak issues so i closed off the side entry hole and just run the cords through the top corner hole. also i use window lead on the edges so the sil seal dont drip.

I elevated my veg to comfortable level. veg is in flow and grow no space between buckets for its just veg for one week up to three i have never tried longer. The control bucket top limit switch is a bit temper mental because of human nature we are naturally lazy and i dont always get that scrubbed clean it lets the system over flow til the time of pump runs out after that you just have a low level res.

Flower room one the control bucket is in water tank room on the floor my minor over sight was floors are not the same height. My cure was simply kept raising the control bucket until i got good fill in the room.

Flower room two has control bucket in it. buckets all on the floor. i still had to raise the control bucket to adjust fill level for floor and outside rows due to distances or runs and to res. here is the limit when going room to room with height those little pumps cant pump vertical over 32 inches very well and will not pump vertical at 40" I also discarded the mount bracket and it lays loose in the control bucket. i had one mounting cup plug a row port in the camera it was easy to see one row wilting to my surprise it was easy fix. but loose in the bottom leaves it free to vibrate into the lower float. i adjusted my drain pump hose and use the power cord to hold it back.

your rock comments all i can say is mine is a
ceramic 1/2 dia. wedges cleans easy even can soak in acid bath tumbler. i get the roots out with a barrel tumbler. my nutes are house and garden im now unhappy with some thing changed in the last 8 months now im looking for a cure to my rapid growth loss. im down to the nutes i got new everything else after 4 weeks of flower lucky to have 18" plant used to be 40" i run 6 week flower one week veg. even new strains brought in have the same growth.

I hope you have gotten something useful on the flow and grow i am sure theres more in a dormant brain cell if you have any questions i will try to answer if i can. Recommend to use it even though its not a 30 minute set up like they say its still gives you tons of freedom and cleaning my system is 5-9 hr job

time for me to hit the fart sack and stay on the right side of the dirt everyone. good day!

 

[Hiker]

Hi Adaptist,

welcome to



It sounds like you've been doing well with your system, but I'm not sure what the trouble is now.

It sounds like you've done a lot of customization to the reservoir. Was that to facilitate res cleanings, or did you just want a larger capacity? Basically, what issue were you trying to resolve? I don't have the Titan system, but mine is the same concept. I find the 55g barrel to work very well with up to 36 sites. At peak flower with that many plants, you WILL be adding water daily, but it will never go dry. My CAP system has smaller sites than the Titan I think. Maybe that makes a difference. I'm considering a second bucket system, and have not decided on buying a Titan or building my own. I'm leaning towards the second option, but I'm considering making my flowering room half hydro and half soil. That's still very much undecided though.

What is that media you're describing? I just use the standard Hydroton/lava rock stuff. I've come up with a fairly painless way to clean my rocks. I do it dry! Let them dry out, then I made a little sift tray with some hardware screen attached to a wooden frame. I think it's a 1/4" mesh and it works great. I can't get away with it in my backyard, but I thought a large mesh cylinder that rotated would work awesome. It just occured to me that the same device would make an excellent compost sifter thereby justifying it sitting in my yard. Once it's built, I could get away with doing some rock I think. hmmmmm.

The key is to clean the rock dry. The old roots just fall off like dust. My small screen (10" x 20" maybe?) only does about 1/2 - 1 gallon at a time. It takes me some time to go through 36 buckets worth, but it's still only a half day's task. I can sit while I do it and I just listen to podcasts or some music. I can handle that every 10 weeks.

 

[rob5088]

I'm considering getting the Oceanus but I use 6-8 gallon containers and pooling I have to avoid.
Are containers drained by suction?
If pooling is unavoidable,what percentage is left in bottom of containers?