The Quadsquad Thread: A Community For Quadlining
- Thread starter Asesino85
- Start date
It’s been done. Go to search, put in gorilla glue mainline and it’s there. Good luck!
Are mainlining, manifolding and fluxing the same thing, just some call them different names for essentially the same thing? Or are there material differences?
Ok. Did a bit of reading and answered my own question.
Seems like Mainlining was first, started by a grower named Nugbuckets. His technique was to top the plant producing two opposite branches. Then he topped those two to produce four, and topped the four to produce eight colas. Each cola is the same distance from the roots in this method.
Then, a grower named Nebula Haze took that idea and eliminated the additional toppings and just let the original two branches grow and used the side branching to make up her eight branches, claiming to have saved a bit of veg time in the process with no loss of yield. This was termed "Manifolding."
Then @Light Addict came up with his more elaborate, and time consuming, training more along the lines of the second version, but focuses more on creating many, many more tops than the eight found in either of the two prior versions, with a bit of weaving of stems along the way. LA calls this technique "Fluxing".
And from there we now have @Asesino85 's quadlining version which tops but leaves four branches to grow instead of two, shortening veg time even further and producing a very symmetrical plant.
I think I have my history right but am happy to be corrected if anything is not accurate or complete.
My 1st ever harvested plant! I’m pleased with it. Quadlined of course. I give you Big Bud!
BarloBruz
420 Member
Evening everyone! Thought I'd post some the progress on my Zkittlez grow. We're currently in the third week of flowering, and honestly, didn't think I'd make it this far for my first grow, but this organics thing is proving to be very forgiving/low maintenance so far, this baby is taking everything I'm throwing at it (various teas/feeds/defol/training, etc) very well. Seeing lots of bud sites forming on the nodes I've left on branches from defoliation. Really into this quadlining method, probably gonna use it on every grow moving forward.
Aaaaand some slow mo vids, 'cause I fucking love taking slow mo vids of my plant loll:
Aaaaand some slow mo vids, 'cause I fucking love taking slow mo vids of my plant loll:
Brian420pm
Well-Known Member
Probably the prettiest grow I've ever seen, wow!
Brian420pm
Well-Known Member
35 days from seed, quadlining Humboldt Seed's Blueberry Muffin. One seedling died so three girls in my 4 x 4.
I wish they were all like this one... internodal space perfect for light penetration, training clip access and in my last three grows the tallest and fastest growing plant yielded the most.
Top shots of each...
I wish they were all like this one... internodal space perfect for light penetration, training clip access and in my last three grows the tallest and fastest growing plant yielded the most.
Top shots of each...
scottreid1966
Well-Known Member
Thank you very much, @Asesino85 ! I have this bookmarked and just stripped nodes 1 and 2. I wish that I read this last week because I have still 6 nodes plus the top. Should I cut the stem anyways after node 4? Very informative thread and will read on till the end.As quadlining has become bigger and bigger on these forums I have seen that anyone interested in it has been able to receive the help they need on their own journals. Recently I have decided that it would be really fun to have a quadlining thread where people can come together and share their experiences and cool pictures. Some people also don't have journals so this will help provide a home where anyone can ask any questions they want. The #Quadsquad has some of the top growers on the forums and this will be a place where people can ask questions, learn about quadlining and just have some fun with it. This thread will be anything and everything about quadlining.
First of all let me start off by saying Happy 420 to everyone here! What better day to start a thread then on the best day of the year? Second, I will give a little history about quadlining and then a quick step by step guide on how to perform quadlining and the benefits of it.
Quadlining started a couple of years ago when I was trying to come up with a training method to get a good, low, even shape to the plants without slowing them down too much. Fluxing took way too long to perform and Mainlining also took a long time in veg to accomplish. Neither seemed like good fits for what I was trying to achieve. Instead I took a combination of both training methods and made quadlining. I've always said it isn't rocket science and it isn't anything brand new but I've put them together and created a system to allow aggressive growth without slowing the plants down much at all. It redistributes energy to focus on 4 main support branches and tries not to waste energy on things that will not amount to anything in the end. It also achieves a nice, even canopy with good spacing for airflow and light to penetrate decreasing the chance of mold and problems while increasing yield. Keeping them low also allows for growing in tight spaces or with height restrictions like most indoor growing. These were all the goals I wanted to achieve and quadlining does just that.
So what do you do to quadline? In a short summary to quadline you top above the 4th node of a plant and remove nodes 1 and 2. That leaves with you 2 nodes left on the plant (nodes 3 and 4). These nodes each have 2 branches each and you take those 4 branches (2 nodes and 2 branches each) and train them to the edge of the pot creating a perfect "X" shape for all the other nodes to grow off of. These will also have the 4 main colas at the end of them (or towers as some people have dubbed it)
Where the circles are at on this photo was where the 4 nodes originally were. Just to clarify there are 2 branches that come out of each node. The bottom two nodes (4 branches) were stripped away very carefully The plant is at such a young time take extra precaution when pinching or cutting them off!
Here is a photo where I was helping someone before the nodes were pulled off. The X's show what is being removed. The line is where you top at.
This is a plant I grew where I have stripped but not yet topped.
This is the same plant but now topped.
This is the same plant a day or two later.
This is the same plant a few days after that.
At this point there has been nothing else done to plants. Most people will just top their plants and the only difference between that and this is that I strip away the bottom 2 nodes to force all the energy to grow out the 4 main branches left. To me this is a very important step. In my experiences it's been a waste of energy to let all that stuff below grow and it doesn't even produce much in the end. If you want you can also spread the tips out with your fingers a bit which is really hard to show but here is a picture anyways. This can help keep node spacing tighter and give a little more light in there when things get a little bushy and bunched up.
Here is how I spread the middle nodes out a bit. Just some light bending and spreading.
At this point I've already put the plant through enough stress that I really don't want to clip anything else off or bend anything. It's not a ton of stress but they are little so you don't want to over-do it. I always like to strip the bottom two nodes a day or two before topping to give the plant a little time to recover. Doing everything all at the same time can cause extra delay and we don't want that. Also if you are growing multiple plants then I highly recommend to do each one when they are ready and not on a planned schedule. Different genetics grow at different rates and you should always do things to your plants based on how they look and not based on a scheduled time frame. If you are growing multiple plants then rarely can you strip and top at the same time. That means they all have to be at the exact same spot and that will rarely happen, especially if they aren't all the same genetics. Also it is key to note that if you are growing in soil, this could all take a little longer to recover then if you are growing in Coco or Hydro. If someone growing in Coco has a plant that recovers quicker and is larger, well that is just the nature of growing in a hydro medium. Doing any training or topping in soil will always take a little longer to recover and usually plants just aren't as big in soil as they are in Hydro. You will still have beautiful plants but you might be wondering why they don't look as big as someone else's plants and really it's as simple as genetics or growing medium.
Next, as the plants grow larger and start to really pick up the pace in veg, I will use my fingers to bend the 4th nodes branches to let the 3rd nodes branches catch up to them. Sometimes a plant will do this naturally but there is an in between stage where plants are still to fragile to really be tied down so I just slowly bend that top node with my fingers to start getting the branches to grow horizontally. Here is also a key to note. There are certain hormones (auxins) that aid in regulating plant growth. If a branch is growing completely horizontally then it sends different hormones to that branch then if it was growing completely vertical. When you start pinning down branches you always want to keep them tied down to the point where there is a 10-20% grade to them and not completely flat. If you don't do this then the 4 main branches will slow way down with growth and the middle will explode and you want to keep everything nice and even. It is hard to recover from this once the 4 main branches really slow down.
I don't have a great picture to show this angle but you can see that the branches are not completely horizontal in this picture and do have some angling to them.
So once the plant really kicks it into aggressive veg mode then it is time to tie them down. There are numerous ways to do this but the way I do it is with metal hooks and tomato wire. Some people who use hard pots drill holes and use string. Other use those fuzzy ties. There are all sorts of ways to do it but find something that will be fairly sturdy so the plant doesn't pull them out. Training ties are no good if they can't hold the plant into place. Also try and refrain from using small metal wire or things of that nature. As the plant grows the thin, hard wires can cut into the plant and then the plant is wasting energy constantly repairing those wounds. It's also good to note that a plant will get bigger and stronger and sometimes will require multiple ties to hold down a single branch.
This is where the fluxing part of the plant comes in. Once a plant starts getting tied down then you keep all 4 branches even until they all reach the edge of the final pot. While they are aggressively growing but haven't reached the edge yet the plants will get very bushy and require some defoliation. This allow even light distribution so all the new nodes growing off the mains will start to grow. Periodically during this phase I will clip off the fan leaves the point to the center of the plant that block all the new nodes light. You can usually do them all at once and you will often pull them in sets of 4. You pull 1 fan leaf from the same spot on each of the 4 main branches.
This is an example of a leaf that will need to be pulled because it is blocking the node under it's light. The leaves that face towards the outside of the pot very rarely block anything so I don't pull them. The ones facing the middle I get rid of.
The next step that I take and you do not have to do this but on every other node on the 4 main branches I remove the bottom branch. All of the odd nodes will be nice and even and grow out the sides of the main branch when it's pinned down but all the even nodes will grow a branch on top and one on bottom. The one on bottom never catches up to the canopy and ends up being "larfy" nugs. They never get dense enough and that is due to not getting enough light penetration. So I remove the bottom branch and the fan leaf associated with it. I also remove the top fan leaf because it blocks light. In the end this really helps with spacing anyways but if you do not want to do this you do not have to.
The arrow points to the node I remove on the bottom. you can see I've already removed the fan leaf on top. I do this pretty much the whole way through veg or at least until I really start letting the plant grow vertically.
Once the plant is trained to the edge of the pot it should look something like this. In this picture the plants were not in their final homes yet so when I transplanted them into their final homes they were practically ready to be flipped. I always try to transplant earlier then this but everyone does that differently. This was just a good example of how the plants should look in terms of symmetry with the quadline. You can see that nice "X" shape that the 4 main branches make. At this point I would just start letting the plant grow vertically then I would flip to flower.
During stretch I try and keep the plant as even as possible by using the ties and doing some bending/supercropping. You can pinch the stems of branches to slow the growth down a bit. You will feel the cell walls squish in but don't do it so hard the branch falls over. Just enough to cause a little damage to have to repair so that cola slows down a bit. I keep all ties on the plant until the very end of stretch and at that point if they aren't doing anything anymore (aka when you remove them the plant doesn't move at all) I pull them off. You can keep them on for all of flower if you like but you'll find the plant has hardened and taken shape and most of the time they don't contribute to anything anymore. At this point you can do some defoliation right after stretch to open the airflow up and light penetration. During this defoliation I will remove any small or weak branches that I know won't make it to the canopy. I also lollipop each cola as the bottom stuff doesn't get much light. Then you pretty much just let them grow out the rest of the way into some big, beautiful, bushy plants.
Just flipped to 12/12.
Stretch.
Little budlets forming.
Colas stacking and major defoliation done between budlet phase and stacking phase. Usually this is where I pull the ties off and the plants just grow from here on out. Not much else can be done training wise and you want to avoid any stress in flower anyways.
View from above.
Colas.
Almost finished.
Trimmed from above.
Sideshot showing lollipopping and thickness of colas.
Really the flowering phase of quadlining is pretty boring but you get to see all the training pay off in the end. You can see in the last picture how nice a big the colas get and how even everything pretty much stays. Both of these working together is what gives a larger yield which is why most people train their plants in the first place. By doing quadlining you aren't adding more then a week extra in veg then if you would just do them normal and you don't have to worry about any height restrictions. Fans are able to blow air to all of the plant because it is nice and even. There isn't a huge, taller cola blocking the way to the others. Same thing goes for light. The 4 main branches also are very stable and will be able to support the heavier colas without them flopping over. Sometimes you have to tie a cola or two up but these plants are like rhinoceroses. Short, stocky and strong.
This thread is created to be able to ask questions or just plain showoff what your quadlined plants look like. The #Quadsqaud OGs (my top quadliners @Derbybud @DobeWan @Mr. Magoo @Dutchman1990 ) will be here to help as well and I look forward to having all people trying quadlining all in one thread finally! If you do Quadline, throw a #Quadsquad tag up in your signature. Let's see what you all are doing with this fun training method! Lastly, this would have never came to be without these great forums here at 420 Magazine so a big thank you to all the moderators and people who make this thing run. All the information I've ever used for growing has come from this site and this site only. Quadlining is a 420 Magazine original and I'm proud of that!
Scott
The OP hasn't been seen in these here parts for some time, but I can answer your question.
Yes, you can go ahead and top above the 4th node. When you do, leave a decent stump, as this will help prevent splitting later on as the plant gets bigger and stronger. The limbs will fight against the ties later on and it can become a weak point at the trunk, where a bit of a jostle from a bump or strong wind can cause the stem to split.
Leaving a good stump at this topping can help prevent that from happening.
Good luck with your quad! There are many who follow the practice so feel free to ask any questions that come up.
@Kanno26 has a grow going now that we helped him get started with quadlining and has asked some great questions as he learns. You can follow his here: Kanno's quadlining grow
scottreid1966
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the 411, Azimuth. Will check it out.
Happy to help.
BTW, the links in your signature don't work. I tried to go to your journal from it. FYI.
scottreid1966
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the FYI. I am a techno idiot. I will ask 420 support for help on this matter.
scottreid1966
Well-Known Member
Referring to this:As quadlining has become bigger and bigger on these forums I have seen that anyone interested in it has been able to receive the help they need on their own journals. Recently I have decided that it would be really fun to have a quadlining thread where people can come together and share their experiences and cool pictures. Some people also don't have journals so this will help provide a home where anyone can ask any questions they want. The #Quadsquad has some of the top growers on the forums and this will be a place where people can ask questions, learn about quadlining and just have some fun with it. This thread will be anything and everything about quadlining.
First of all let me start off by saying Happy 420 to everyone here! What better day to start a thread then on the best day of the year? Second, I will give a little history about quadlining and then a quick step by step guide on how to perform quadlining and the benefits of it.
Quadlining started a couple of years ago when I was trying to come up with a training method to get a good, low, even shape to the plants without slowing them down too much. Fluxing took way too long to perform and Mainlining also took a long time in veg to accomplish. Neither seemed like good fits for what I was trying to achieve. Instead I took a combination of both training methods and made quadlining. I've always said it isn't rocket science and it isn't anything brand new but I've put them together and created a system to allow aggressive growth without slowing the plants down much at all. It redistributes energy to focus on 4 main support branches and tries not to waste energy on things that will not amount to anything in the end. It also achieves a nice, even canopy with good spacing for airflow and light to penetrate decreasing the chance of mold and problems while increasing yield. Keeping them low also allows for growing in tight spaces or with height restrictions like most indoor growing. These were all the goals I wanted to achieve and quadlining does just that.
So what do you do to quadline? In a short summary to quadline you top above the 4th node of a plant and remove nodes 1 and 2. That leaves with you 2 nodes left on the plant (nodes 3 and 4). These nodes each have 2 branches each and you take those 4 branches (2 nodes and 2 branches each) and train them to the edge of the pot creating a perfect "X" shape for all the other nodes to grow off of. These will also have the 4 main colas at the end of them (or towers as some people have dubbed it)
Where the circles are at on this photo was where the 4 nodes originally were. Just to clarify there are 2 branches that come out of each node. The bottom two nodes (4 branches) were stripped away very carefully The plant is at such a young time take extra precaution when pinching or cutting them off!
Here is a photo where I was helping someone before the nodes were pulled off. The X's show what is being removed. The line is where you top at.
This is a plant I grew where I have stripped but not yet topped.
This is the same plant but now topped.
This is the same plant a day or two later.
This is the same plant a few days after that.
At this point there has been nothing else done to plants. Most people will just top their plants and the only difference between that and this is that I strip away the bottom 2 nodes to force all the energy to grow out the 4 main branches left. To me this is a very important step. In my experiences it's been a waste of energy to let all that stuff below grow and it doesn't even produce much in the end. If you want you can also spread the tips out with your fingers a bit which is really hard to show but here is a picture anyways. This can help keep node spacing tighter and give a little more light in there when things get a little bushy and bunched up.
Here is how I spread the middle nodes out a bit. Just some light bending and spreading.
At this point I've already put the plant through enough stress that I really don't want to clip anything else off or bend anything. It's not a ton of stress but they are little so you don't want to over-do it. I always like to strip the bottom two nodes a day or two before topping to give the plant a little time to recover. Doing everything all at the same time can cause extra delay and we don't want that. Also if you are growing multiple plants then I highly recommend to do each one when they are ready and not on a planned schedule. Different genetics grow at different rates and you should always do things to your plants based on how they look and not based on a scheduled time frame. If you are growing multiple plants then rarely can you strip and top at the same time. That means they all have to be at the exact same spot and that will rarely happen, especially if they aren't all the same genetics. Also it is key to note that if you are growing in soil, this could all take a little longer to recover then if you are growing in Coco or Hydro. If someone growing in Coco has a plant that recovers quicker and is larger, well that is just the nature of growing in a hydro medium. Doing any training or topping in soil will always take a little longer to recover and usually plants just aren't as big in soil as they are in Hydro. You will still have beautiful plants but you might be wondering why they don't look as big as someone else's plants and really it's as simple as genetics or growing medium.
Next, as the plants grow larger and start to really pick up the pace in veg, I will use my fingers to bend the 4th nodes branches to let the 3rd nodes branches catch up to them. Sometimes a plant will do this naturally but there is an in between stage where plants are still to fragile to really be tied down so I just slowly bend that top node with my fingers to start getting the branches to grow horizontally. Here is also a key to note. There are certain hormones (auxins) that aid in regulating plant growth. If a branch is growing completely horizontally then it sends different hormones to that branch then if it was growing completely vertical. When you start pinning down branches you always want to keep them tied down to the point where there is a 10-20% grade to them and not completely flat. If you don't do this then the 4 main branches will slow way down with growth and the middle will explode and you want to keep everything nice and even. It is hard to recover from this once the 4 main branches really slow down.
I don't have a great picture to show this angle but you can see that the branches are not completely horizontal in this picture and do have some angling to them.
So once the plant really kicks it into aggressive veg mode then it is time to tie them down. There are numerous ways to do this but the way I do it is with metal hooks and tomato wire. Some people who use hard pots drill holes and use string. Other use those fuzzy ties. There are all sorts of ways to do it but find something that will be fairly sturdy so the plant doesn't pull them out. Training ties are no good if they can't hold the plant into place. Also try and refrain from using small metal wire or things of that nature. As the plant grows the thin, hard wires can cut into the plant and then the plant is wasting energy constantly repairing those wounds. It's also good to note that a plant will get bigger and stronger and sometimes will require multiple ties to hold down a single branch.
This is where the fluxing part of the plant comes in. Once a plant starts getting tied down then you keep all 4 branches even until they all reach the edge of the final pot. While they are aggressively growing but haven't reached the edge yet the plants will get very bushy and require some defoliation. This allow even light distribution so all the new nodes growing off the mains will start to grow. Periodically during this phase I will clip off the fan leaves the point to the center of the plant that block all the new nodes light. You can usually do them all at once and you will often pull them in sets of 4. You pull 1 fan leaf from the same spot on each of the 4 main branches.
This is an example of a leaf that will need to be pulled because it is blocking the node under it's light. The leaves that face towards the outside of the pot very rarely block anything so I don't pull them. The ones facing the middle I get rid of.
The next step that I take and you do not have to do this but on every other node on the 4 main branches I remove the bottom branch. All of the odd nodes will be nice and even and grow out the sides of the main branch when it's pinned down but all the even nodes will grow a branch on top and one on bottom. The one on bottom never catches up to the canopy and ends up being "larfy" nugs. They never get dense enough and that is due to not getting enough light penetration. So I remove the bottom branch and the fan leaf associated with it. I also remove the top fan leaf because it blocks light. In the end this really helps with spacing anyways but if you do not want to do this you do not have to.
The arrow points to the node I remove on the bottom. you can see I've already removed the fan leaf on top. I do this pretty much the whole way through veg or at least until I really start letting the plant grow vertically.
Once the plant is trained to the edge of the pot it should look something like this. In this picture the plants were not in their final homes yet so when I transplanted them into their final homes they were practically ready to be flipped. I always try to transplant earlier then this but everyone does that differently. This was just a good example of how the plants should look in terms of symmetry with the quadline. You can see that nice "X" shape that the 4 main branches make. At this point I would just start letting the plant grow vertically then I would flip to flower.
During stretch I try and keep the plant as even as possible by using the ties and doing some bending/supercropping. You can pinch the stems of branches to slow the growth down a bit. You will feel the cell walls squish in but don't do it so hard the branch falls over. Just enough to cause a little damage to have to repair so that cola slows down a bit. I keep all ties on the plant until the very end of stretch and at that point if they aren't doing anything anymore (aka when you remove them the plant doesn't move at all) I pull them off. You can keep them on for all of flower if you like but you'll find the plant has hardened and taken shape and most of the time they don't contribute to anything anymore. At this point you can do some defoliation right after stretch to open the airflow up and light penetration. During this defoliation I will remove any small or weak branches that I know won't make it to the canopy. I also lollipop each cola as the bottom stuff doesn't get much light. Then you pretty much just let them grow out the rest of the way into some big, beautiful, bushy plants.
Just flipped to 12/12.
Stretch.
Little budlets forming.
Colas stacking and major defoliation done between budlet phase and stacking phase. Usually this is where I pull the ties off and the plants just grow from here on out. Not much else can be done training wise and you want to avoid any stress in flower anyways.
View from above.
Colas.
Almost finished.
Trimmed from above.
Sideshot showing lollipopping and thickness of colas.
Really the flowering phase of quadlining is pretty boring but you get to see all the training pay off in the end. You can see in the last picture how nice a big the colas get and how even everything pretty much stays. Both of these working together is what gives a larger yield which is why most people train their plants in the first place. By doing quadlining you aren't adding more then a week extra in veg then if you would just do them normal and you don't have to worry about any height restrictions. Fans are able to blow air to all of the plant because it is nice and even. There isn't a huge, taller cola blocking the way to the others. Same thing goes for light. The 4 main branches also are very stable and will be able to support the heavier colas without them flopping over. Sometimes you have to tie a cola or two up but these plants are like rhinoceroses. Short, stocky and strong.
This thread is created to be able to ask questions or just plain showoff what your quadlined plants look like. The #Quadsqaud OGs (my top quadliners @Derbybud @DobeWan @Mr. Magoo @Dutchman1990 ) will be here to help as well and I look forward to having all people trying quadlining all in one thread finally! If you do Quadline, throw a #Quadsquad tag up in your signature. Let's see what you all are doing with this fun training method! Lastly, this would have never came to be without these great forums here at 420 Magazine so a big thank you to all the moderators and people who make this thing run. All the information I've ever used for growing has come from this site and this site only. Quadlining is a 420 Magazine original and I'm proud of that!
Can I use those said branches that will be cut for clones? This is my only guaranteed female.
Nine Toed Hippie
Well-Known Member
That happened to me today also. I forget the members name but I believe the link was “What’s Hashing”. The post above had links and they worked just fine.
NTH
Absolutely. You'll want to cut some of the branches out anyway so you don't have overcrowding. The ones you take out are great for clones.
greenjeans
Well-Known Member
I'm wondering if giving the stump a good wrapping of electrical tape just as a precaution?? I've had them split even with a good stump then had to use a wood clamp. It looked like I was trying to jump start it!!
Interesting idea, although I would think the electrical tape wrap might be better placed just below the node the stump is atached to. We're really trying to keep the stem together below the node since it's the branches coming off that node that pull against each other and cause the problem.
But good idea!
greenjeans
Well-Known Member
I agree but if it can't pull apart above it is very unlikely to separate below....cantilever, baby, cantilever!!!
I didn't leave much stump above on this gal !!!