The downfall of HID and LED

Just incase you need to know here is the time line of modern lighting
Timeline of lighting technology

Since the dawn of man, about 200,000 years ago, people use the sun as their main source of light.
70,000 BCE A hollow rock or shell or other natural found objects was filled with moss or a similar material that was soaked in animal fat and then ignited
circa 4500 BCE oil lamps
circa 3000 BCE candles are invented.
circa 900 CE Muhammad ibn Zakarīya Rāzi (Rhazes) invents kerosene lamp[1]
circa 1000 The first street lamps appear in Cordoba, Al-Andalus[2]
1780 Aimé Argand invents central draught fixed oil lamp
1784 Argand adds glass chimney to central draught lamp
1792 William Murdoch begins experimenting with gas lighting and probably produced the first gas light in this year.
1800 French watchmaker Bernard Guillaume Carcel overcomes the disadvantages of the Argand-type lamps with his clockwork fed Carcel lamp.
1802 William Murdoch illuminated the exterior of the Soho Foundry with gas.
1805 Phillips and Lee's Cotton Mill, Manchester was the first industrial factory to be fully lit by gas.
1813 National Heat and Light Company formed by Fredrich Winzer (Winsor).
c. 1802 Humphry Davy demonstrates arc-lighting in free air.
1815 Humphry Davy invents the miner's safety lamp.
1835 James Bowman Lindsay demonstrates a light bulb based electric lighting system to the citizens of Dundee.
1840 modern kerosene lamps (oil lamps that burn fuel from petroleum)
1841 Arc-lighting used as experimental public lighting in Paris
1853 Ignacy Lukasiewicz invents petrol lamp
1856 glassblower Heinrich Geissler confines the electric arc in a tube.
1867 A. E. Becquerel demonstrates the first fluorescent lamp
1875 Henry Woodward patents an electric light bulb.
1876 Pavel Yablochkov invents the Yablochkov candle, the first practical carbon arc lamp, for public street lighting in Paris.
1879 Thomas Edison and Joseph Wilson Swan patent the carbon-thread incandescent lamp.
1880 Edison produced a 16-watt lightbulb that lasts 1500 hours.
c. 1889 Incandescent gas mantle invented, revolutionises gas lighting.
1893 Nikola Tesla uses cordless low pressure gas discharge lamps, powered by a high frequency electric field, to light his laboratory. He displays fluorescent lamps and neon lamps at the World Columbian Exposition.
1894 D. McFarlane Moore creates the Moore tube, precursor of electric gas-discharge lamps.
1897 Walther Nernst invents and patents his incandescent lamp, based on solid state electrolytes.
1901 Peter Cooper Hewitt demonstrates the mercury-vapor lamp.
1911 Georges Claude develops the neon lamp.
1925 The first internal frosted lightbulbs were produced.
1926 Edmund Germer patents the fluorescent lamp.
1962 Nick Holonyak Jr. develops the first practical visible-spectrum light-emitting diode
1986 The "White" SON Sodium vapor lamp is introduced.
1991 Philips invents a fluorescent lightbulb that lasts 60,000 hours. The bulb uses magnetic induction.
1994 First commercial sulfur lamp.
 
Actually dont need any lights right now just got a new 1000w switchable ballast with a 6000k mh bulb and an eye hortilux the ones that have the 30% extrablue spectrum. But had a question I found a place selling 1000w mh bulbs with a color temp of 7000k would this be to much blue spectrum for cannabis or do you think it would entice faster and denser grows for example do you think the higher blue spectrum would help the plant to grow bushier with a far greater density of foliage?
 
It would probably veg great but you want the red for budding.

I used a standard 1000W MH for budding last time and the buds were too fluffy but still great smoke. I got a new 400W HPS to work with my 400W EYE to get tighter nugs this time.

:peace:
 
Cateros said:
Actually dont need any lights right now just got a new 1000w switchable ballast with a 6000k mh bulb and an eye hortilux the ones that have the 30% extrablue spectrum. But had a question I found a place selling 1000w mh bulbs with a color temp of 7000k would this be to much blue spectrum for cannabis or do you think it would entice faster and denser grows for example do you think the higher blue spectrum would help the plant to grow bushier with a far greater density of foliage?
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7000k isn't too much for cannabis at all. Use it for veg and during your final flush before harvesting if you decide to get it.
LR is right tho, don't use the MH straight through flowering.
 
DroJo said:
7000k isn't too much for cannabis at all. Use it for veg and during your final flush before harvesting if you decide to get it.
LR is right tho, don't use the MH straight through flowering.
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Knew that one thats why I got the swithable magnetic ballast not as cost efficient as a digital but gives me mh and hps all in one ballast no need for conversion bulbs so for flowering I have a ushio super hps opti red bulb 2700k but also contains both a super hps core but also a super mh core so it has an extra 30% blue light compared to other hps bulbs so its supposed to help increase yields by allowing the plant to grow beefier as it flowers cant be worse then a standard sylvania bulb seeing as it cost me the exact same price.
 
MeanBean said:
$1500.00. Plus after 2 years of use you will grow a third ball. If your a woman you'll get your first. I read that in the artical but it's gone?!
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Dude I fell off my chair laughing at that one :goodjob:
 
LabRat said:
You can buy whatever bulbs you like but I could send a Monster 1K MH bulb along with the ballasts 4 free.

I personally guarantee that everything works as advertised.

I wanna head into LCDs but am low on bucks and my current grow won't be ready 'till late Jan or Feb.

It sux worse that the oil patch has dried up and my $500 days have gone away.

As FreeWheelin' Franklin said . . . "Dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope"

And Fat Freddies cat better not be caught using my boot as a litter box 'cause I'll sic one or both of my dogs on his sorry ass!

Empty threat as my dogs sleep with our cats.

I'm pretty sure if I jumped up and down and threatened the dogs with loss of Milk Bones they might eat a cat or two. I could spice their kibble with with hash to get their munchies up to cat eating levels but that seems like a waste of good hash and I do like our cats as they take care of the rodents around here. Except for Sammy the squirrel and it's so entertaining watching him piss off the cats and Blue Jays.

Load up the bird feeder, smoke a bowl and watch the critters fight it out. Way better than "Who's your favorite loser!? on TV"

Sammy always wins but the interactions are great fun. Nothing like a pissed off Blue Jay to get some wild conversation in the back yard!

Livin' in the country is a mighty fine life,
We all get together on a Saturday night ...
Whoopin' and a hollerin' is the way to go,
We're gonna turn the boys loose now . . .
Here they go . . . . (Goose Creek Symphony)

You all have fun any way you choose.

Every day is a new opportunity to bring joy to our jaded planet.

Screw Starbux, sip back your morning coffee sitting on your back porch scratching your dogs ass while sucking back a bowl of your best.

+++++++reps for your Karma. And Starbuxs can go down the tubes as they are primed to do already.

Bunch of posers and I'm sure glad that I don't have to put up with that crap. If I had my old Bonny under my balls I'd be ripping up the Sea-Sky highway and getting my morning brew in Squamish while rigging my home made fly rod for the morning's run of Steelhead.

The Bonny died in '83, I didn't and my fly-rod catches big fat pike to this day.

The flies that get those pike are tied right here by yours truly using local fur and feathers. I get the fur from muskrats that I kill in my dugout and the feathers from Magpies and Ravens that I kill in my woods.

When I skin out a critter for the fur or feathers the carcass goes to the dogs. My Red Siberian Husky bitch makes short work of anything edible that lands in her area of operations. We got her from the SPCA but she has to be chained up as she's dumb as a post and would be dead on the highway by morning if she were let loose. My other dog already got his ass smoked on the highway and was about to get a lead sleeping pill about four years ago. He's still running around loose and knows not to run on the pavement. Keeps the crack heads away no problem and I saved a buck for the bullet!

I'll never let an animal suffer needlessly but I'll be damned if I'll give a vet $500 to put an animal down when a lead sleeping pill cost me a buck.

I'm lucky that all my dogs have died from natural causes or bit it on the road. The last guy was on the road for the lead sleeping pill but his eyes told me that he would suffer the pain until he healed and three years later he's a happy, healthy dog that I chase around the back 40 for fun.

He likes canna butter cookies too so what's not to love?

:peace:
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lABrAT
IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOUR LIVING IN PARADISE UP THERE!
Wish you all the best and i am thinking of switching to LED's down the road too but I gotta get some kind under my belt quick and dont have the $$$ right now to do it. Just came out of ugly divorce took years in the courts and cost me dearly, I wish I knew about MMJ then it would have been more ....enjoyable.
 
Sulfur lamps were introduced to the industry approximately 10 years ago to great fanfare. The manufacturers set up a booth at the industry trade show. There were even a few retail sales of the technology, which back then ran about $5,000.00. The problem wasn't with the sulfur bulb, which evidently lasts close to forever, but with the magnetron, which is what converts high-voltage electric energy into microwave radiation in a microwave oven (and evidently also causes the sulfur to emit light in the sulfur lamp systems).

Evidently magnetrons, like microwave ovens, weren't designed to be run 18 hours a day, 365 days a year, and the most expensive part of the unit that ended up needing to be replaced after a few short months of use was the magnetron, at a retail cost of somewhere around $3,500.00.

Which spelled the death of the sulfur lamp as far as the indoor gardening industry goes. It may be the future, but the future hasn't arrived yet.
 
They have 60,000 hour magnetrons now and the cost of the light is 1500 or less.The tech is still growing everyday they have a home unit now.i am sure years back moving part do break thats with everything but they keep making them better.and you dont have to replace a bulb just the drive my bulbs cost me 100 bucks each every 2 grows.in 10 years i could just buy a new light with the SP.
 
dude i want to try this light and get 600k lumens! so they sell them already?
 
Sulphur Plasma is an old and failed technology when it comes to growing from the 90s, with new interest in the technology from LG the lights have become more efficient and cheaper but essentially are just newer better failures. What people have to realize is that all light is not the same, just because something is "omgz super facking bright" doesn't mean its going to grow your plant, and until I see a grow with one of these new ones (if you can even find a place to buy one your looking at $2000+) I can only go off of the previous failures with the technology, which only exceeded HIDs in one of those categories and failed horribly in the rest.

Cost: see above $2000?

Effectiveness: You have to understand how Sulphur Plasma lights work they use RF rays to heat and illuminate, the idea being that it gave off the light spectrumwise identical to the sun. Yet unlike the sun and other bulbs it gives off no UV rays essential for resin production. Also in theory but this is just speculative all that RF radiation (like 30 microwaves) probably has some negative effects on the plant as well.

Running Temperature: This is the only one that it may exceed HIDs in but not by much.

Stealth Signature: Pretty much THE reason Sulphur Plasma will not be used for growing at least until Mariuana becomes completely decriminzalized. All the RF waves these things give off in such a small area someone would be able to home in on you from probably a little less then a mile away. Not to mention these things are meant for stadium lights and car parks, not a small grow room it could even be dangerous.

Maintenance: The bulb may have a 60,000 hour lifespan, but whatever the fuck a magnetron is and the power supply are only 15,000. So having to replace half the system every 2 years when its as pricey as it is would become very costly.

My thought is that reguardless of innovations in this technology these problems will still remain and its essentially because these lights aren't made for growing...

While LED technology may not quite be there yet, in the future it has the potential to outperform HIDs in every category which is why its safe to assume they will be the growlight of the future.

Cost: As technology evolves and new LEDs become smaller and more powerful the price per watt of LEDs will continue to drop infinitely to the point where say 15-20 years from now you can throw up a panel of lights equivalent to a 1000w HPS for $20.

Effectiveness: Considering this is the technology our own government and Nasa has invested its time and money into for grow lighting, its safe to assume that through countless trial and error with different spectrums, in different configurations eventually LEDs will be much more efficient per watt then HIDs.

Running Temperature: They run coooooooooooooooooooooool, not that there is no heat, but nothing like HID.

Stealth Signature: No huge glowing heat signature.

Maintenance: 80,000 hour lifespan, so about 10 years of continuous use.


Once again they may not be there yet, but there getting there and they are the future.... Not sulphur plasma.
 
Yes they sell them and if you have read a few pages before, they are trying to improve LED Tech because the SP has the spectrum all over it.and buy the way no 1 led will ever take the place of a 1000w Hid maybe 4 to get the coverage you need to grow plants.but thats another topic.I do beleave another light will take the place of both HID and LED in the future.LED will fade and a new wave of lighting will take its place.The Tech is to slow moving to keep up.To be honest LED cant realy over come the power of a old HID.In comparison its rather weak.
 
Actually I have seen some comparisons of some new led lighting technology and currently I have seen a 400w led lighting system put up against metal halide and hps lights and in a side by side comparison the plants that were grown under the led were larger and more mature when compared against the plants grown under metal halide or hps. In fact the link that i followed to get this information I quoted was actually from a banner on this site. However I did do a search on Sulphur plasma lights and read a posting on there use for horticulture and they were actually very impressive they provide a spectrum of light that is so close to natural sunlight that I have to agree with the original poster that suphur plasma when they become a bit more affordable say $1000 for a 1000w light and I personally would use them over led or Hid. But to tell the truth I dont believe any one artificial light will ever be exactly equal to the sun but if a grower was to use Metal halide and hps lights in unison with led lights I think overall results will be far more impressive then we would see with any 1 lighting system. SO IMO I think the best results for indoor lighting will always be found by combining the spectrums that different lights can prduce so even when sulphur plasma becomes affordable to the hobby grower I think that most plants will still benefit from the SP lights supplemented with LED's . But presently the best spectrum would probably be produced by a combination of MH and hps used concurently with led supplements.
 
I just love to see new products on the market that will help all growers.No matter what light we all use atm something bigger and better is on the way it will never stop as long as there is money in it the wheels will keep on turning.
 
jeez sounds like you could add some solar panels and possible run all the pumps lol from the graph if its that close to the suns spec with a few batteries storing juice maybe even run your tv at night lol ,think it might be worth approaching the company to be a tester in return for a detailed review of there product , worth a shot being you are very well respected in our 420 circle
 
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