The 4x4 Grow Tent Club

[508Squid]

Er... You mean PAR, micromoles per meter per second, DLI, etc., I assume?

Didn't want to get that technical since my main point was people not knowing any of this but yes you are correct. Lumes is the light that's detectable by humans vs PAR "Plants use light energy between 400 and 700 nanometers, the region known as Photosynthetically Active Radiation or PAR." Thats the "spectrum" I mentioned.

 

[GodOfPot]

620 watts? Nice.

One thing I've noticed about LED grow panels, especially the higher-output ones, is that they do seem to share HIDs' tendency to produce a big hot (in terms of light-energy) spot directly under the panel. I think that's one reason that the strategy of hanging one 50-watt COB per square foot is so efficient - you get equal light distribution throughout your garden's area. Also, the multiple light sources reduce shadows - a plant's leaves might shade some of the light coming from the COB directly above it, but the ones in the surrounding square feet help fill in those shadowed areas due to the different angles.

My panel is only 350 watts, and it's relatively large - but it still has this hot spot. I can manipulate things somewhat by deciding which of its six COBs I run the 90° optical-quality (IIRC) lenses under, but it's still going to be there to some extent. When I received it, unpacked it, and fought to hang the 35-pound thing by myself, lol, I kept wishing it was smaller in size. Now I wish it was larger in physical size, because that way the COBs (etc.) would be farther apart.

I'm just rambling....

Nah I hear ya on that. This unit is relatively compact, 21lbs, but it does well for a 4'x4' area. But because it's so compact I think it would be optimal to be 3.5'-4' from the top of the canopy, mines only 3' from the top of the canopy right now(tent is only 6.5' tall) so I may experience some hot spots on my plants as they grow closer to it. Temps are about 81 lights on, 72 lights off right now(I run it in full mode always)

However, I have been so impressed with this fixture I'm considering ordering 2 more units for the future in anticipation of the prices rising. I'd be interested to see what you're using, always love reading and absorbing as much info and data on other things as I can to compare, the only thing I haven't really looked into so far is DIY COBs and the pricing, really have no idea on those at all, yet anyways.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I'd be interested to see what you're using, always love reading and absorbing as much info and data on other things as I can to compare

I cannot provide a link, because the company is no longer a sponsor (AfaIK, they weren't asked to leave or anything, they just didn't continue the relationship). But it's an Amare Technologies SE350+UVB, which is at least two "generations" behind their current model at this time, IIRC. If you view my profile page:
@TorturedSoul
...the image on the left shows the panel from underneath, looking upwards at it.

the only thing I haven't really looked into so far is DIY COBs and the pricing, really have no idea on those at all, yet anyways.

That's one of the few things that I used to think we might be somewhat lacking in information about here. But that has been changing, and there are several "DiY" threads about COBs now. And there are members who are far more knowledgeable about them than I am (I know very little about the subject, actually), and who are willing to help others. Assuming you can see fairly well and don't have Parkinson's or another issue that causes tremors, the assembly looks fairly easy. And there are kits available, of course, which would be that much easier (but likely more expensive than tracking down the individual components yourself).

 

[GodOfPot]

Part of the problem is shipping, can get very expensive shipping up here. Perfect example is those fluorescent tubes I bought, think it was $60 for 4 tubes, $30 for shipping, then when it got here another $54 for duties, yet my light which was $500 was only $20 duties

Sometimes the shipping and duties alone makes it too expensive lol

 

[TorturedSoul]

Perfect example is those fluorescent tubes I bought, think it was $60 for 4 tubes

WOW! Admittedly, it has been years, but a whole case used to cost less than that.

$30 for shipping

Four+ foot long box, I take it? I once tried to order a 1.2 meter offset-lnb satellite dish, and the shipping fee would have been enough to make the overall cost comparable to a rather large C-band model, because that C-band model came in four sections, while the 1.2m one was a one-piece (the actual dish part, I mean) - and would have come in an "oversized" box.

then when it got here another $54 for duties

It is refreshing to read that your government is even greedier than mine, lol. Doesn't do you any good, obviously - but thanks for sharing .

I suppose the moral to this story is: Always try to find a domestic seller. Although that doesn't always seem to work, either. I've noticed that some electronics are significantly higher in parts of Europe, even when sourced from local sellers - and even factoring in that VAT is included in those prices. I guess there's just no method to the madness.

A friend of mine was self-employed and he used to charge rich folks in $100,000 houses significantly more than he would charge regular folks living in $25,000-$50,000 ones. He didn't look at it as gouging the rich - he said he offered a "po' folks" discount .

 

[GodOfPot]

Tubes were only 24", so basically a 2' box, was pretty small, shipping charge was because it's out of country. The tubes themselves were expensive compared to "normal" fluorescents, but aside from reptile bulbs, I wasn't able to find any other tubes specifically designed for UVA/B, so I guess they're kind of "specialty" bulbs

 

[TheFertilizer]

I'm looking into switching to a 315w cmh personally. I'm not sure why but I just believe the hype more than for LED. I found some testing done for the Phillips lamps in these forms and they seem the best by far, and so just finding a good ballast is all that's needed. I'm not putting down LED'S but with so many on the market and such wide price ranges I was at a loss which direction to go, plus it seems the general consensus is that heat output with the cmh would be lower than led.

Not sure which hood and ballast set I will go with. The hydrofarm phantom 315 and sunsystem lecture 315 are right around 400 bucks and come with the phillips. Plus the sunsystem is made in my home state.

I have heard good things about growers choice too though, although the testing I saw, their lamps came in 4th place behind phillips, Maxspar and ushio lamps. Still at 270 they're the best priced and most reputable I have seen, and I could probably get a Phillips to swap out with.

Still not sure I wanna pull the trigger on such an expensive lighting system though. It could be worth it over my 400 w hps, and since I can't exceed 400 w draw it's the perfect power output.

 

[gr865]

I'm looking into switching to a 315w cmh personally. I'm not sure why but I just believe the hype more than for LED. I found some testing done for the Phillips lamps in these forms and they seem the best by far, and so just finding a good ballast is all that's needed. I'm not putting down LED'S but with so many on the market and such wide price ranges I was at a loss which direction to go, plus it seems the general consensus is that heat output with the cmh would be lower than led.

Not sure which hood and ballast set I will go with. The hydrofarm phantom 315 and sunsystem lecture 315 are right around 400 bucks and come with the phillips. Plus the sunsystem is made in my home state.

I have heard good things about growers choice too though, although the testing I saw, their lamps came in 4th place behind phillips, Maxspar and ushio lamps. Still at 270 they're the best priced and most reputable I have seen, and I could probably get a Phillips to swap out with.

Still not sure I wanna pull the trigger on such an expensive lighting system though. It could be worth it over my 400 w hps, and since I can't exceed 400 w draw it's the perfect power output.

Running two 315W in a vertical grow, love them.
Big increase in yield. I have both ballast outside of 4x4 and the temp inside are not that bad.

GR

 

[SherlokOhmz]

Current 4x4 grow in 6th week flowering.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Oh, that looks awesome. Can you grow Mountain Dew in there, too?

Nice colas (err... the green colas, I mean ), and at a pretty good spacing, too. You should be smiling on harvest day.

 

[TheFertilizer]

Oh, that looks awesome. Can you grow Mountain Dew in there, too?

Nice colas (err... the green colas, I mean ), and at a pretty good spacing, too. You should be smiling on harvest day.

Hey TorturedSoul, what do you think of 315 cmh's?

 

[TorturedSoul]

I haven't used them. But if memory serves, I actually posted a thread around here somewhere a while back asking what others thought about them. Seems like everyone who has used them are pretty happy. And since they're not really what I'd consider cheap, I'd guess that the people who buy the things are going to have high expectations.

Oh, and bonus points for calling them ceramic metal halides instead of "light-emitting ceramic" or whatever LEC stands for (personally, i think it stands for "LEDs are selling really well right now, why don't we change CMH to LEC?") But I'm just guessing.

 

[TheFertilizer]

I haven't used them. But if memory serves, I actually posted a thread around here somewhere a while back asking what others thought about them. Seems like everyone who has used them are pretty happy. And since they're not really what I'd consider cheap, I'd guess that the people who buy the things are going to have high expectations.

Oh, and bonus points for calling them ceramic metal halides instead of "light-emitting ceramic" or whatever LEC stands for (personally, i think it stands for "LEDs are selling really well right now, why don't we change CMH to LEC?") But I'm just guessing.

Yeah I think I may have browsed through that, was wondering if you'd ever ended up with one.

Also I noticed that too. Might as well just start calling open-hood rated bulbs as LEQ... Light-emitting quartz.

Any idea what kind of LED setup would compare with one of the 315 cmh lamps, and how the heat output would compare? I'm probably gonna end up getting a Grower's Choice because they have a model that's $240 plus $30 shipping and comes with a decent lamp, but the Philips lamps are pretty spendy separately so any ballast-only option I've found still ends up costing more in the long run. Seems like the two top of the line options are Hydrofarm and SunSystem, but those are both $400 and $500 respectively. SunSystems has a low-profile option for $400 too but their big LEC 315 model that's pretty well reputed as the industry standard in CMH is $500.

But yeah $500 on a light... Ouch. I'm not saying LEDs are not on par with the CMHs at all, but there's just SO many more options in LEDs that I have no idea what I'd got for $500. In comparison, the SunSystems with a Phillips ColorMaster seems pretty universally recognized as top notch quality. Like the market is just not as vast, so it's a lot easier to nail down "The One Light to Rule Them All" lol I think with all the LED options out there, I'd drive myself crazy whether I got "the one".

I haven't even got .5 grams per watt off my 400 W HPS so I'm wondering what kind of increased yields I'd see with the 315 cmh and whether it would make it worth the initial cost. Going rate of a good ounce is well over $200 in any store here, so gotta figure if I even get 2 more ounces per harvest out of it, it would pay for itself the first harvest.

I think we talked about this all before. Just don't wanna shrink my tent, and can't go with a big 600 W on my crappy electrical setup, it seems like the CMH is like, the answer sitting in a guilded light shining down from the heavens with a nice harpsicord sound playing behind it.

 

[508Squid]

Had to bump up my nutes. Plants are looking very yellow. I'm guessing it's nitrogen deficiency.

Flower room is doing great. Day 5 of flower.

 

[GodOfPot]

Yeah I think I may have browsed through that, was wondering if you'd ever ended up with one.

Also I noticed that too. Might as well just start calling open-hood rated bulbs as LEQ... Light-emitting quartz.

Any idea what kind of LED setup would compare with one of the 315 cmh lamps, and how the heat output would compare? I'm probably gonna end up getting a Grower's Choice because they have a model that's $240 plus $30 shipping and comes with a decent lamp, but the Philips lamps are pretty spendy separately so any ballast-only option I've found still ends up costing more in the long run. Seems like the two top of the line options are Hydrofarm and SunSystem, but those are both $400 and $500 respectively. SunSystems has a low-profile option for $400 too but their big LEC 315 model that's pretty well reputed as the industry standard in CMH is $500.

But yeah $500 on a light... Ouch. I'm not saying LEDs are not on par with the CMHs at all, but there's just SO many more options in LEDs that I have no idea what I'd got for $500. In comparison, the SunSystems with a Phillips ColorMaster seems pretty universally recognized as top notch quality. Like the market is just not as vast, so it's a lot easier to nail down "The One Light to Rule Them All" lol I think with all the LED options out there, I'd drive myself crazy whether I got "the one".

I haven't even got .5 grams per watt off my 400 W HPS so I'm wondering what kind of increased yields I'd see with the 315 cmh and whether it would make it worth the initial cost. Going rate of a good ounce is well over $200 in any store here, so gotta figure if I even get 2 more ounces per harvest out of it, it would pay for itself the first harvest.

I think we talked about this all before. Just don't wanna shrink my tent, and can't go with a big 600 W on my crappy electrical setup, it seems like the CMH is like, the answer sitting in a guilded light shining down from the heavens with a nice harpsicord sound playing behind it.

If you're capped at 400w then I wouldn't bother with LED, I think that you'll get much better results with the cmh, I've seen another option but truth is I have no idea about it, only read a quick couple things.

Try searching LEP(light emitting plasma), I'm not saying it's better, or worse, but might be worth comparing the 2, it's the same system idea as HID as in requires a ballast and hood etc.... Worth looking into at least

 

[GodOfPot]

I just looked them up and they're quite a bit more expensive lol

I did see a 400w cmh made by HTG garden supply, not sure what the difference is, could just be their marketing to force you to buy the 400w bulbs from them

 

[gr865]

I run two Nanolux 315W CMH in a 4x4 stacked 5 plant vertical grow. Only harvested 4 of the 5 as the Critical Kush just did not make well so I use the entire plant for making Cannabis oil.
I have both ballast outside the tent so no additional heat in the tent.
This grow was 24.5 zips of trimmed dried buds in jars 1.2 g/W, and 10.5 zips of larf and untrimmed bud for a total of 35 zips or 1.6 g/W.
My previous best was 0.6 g/W in a horizontal grow. So I will continue the method and same lights.

GR

 

[508Squid]

Had to re-pot. They were getting a little root bound.

 

[TorturedSoul]

WARNING: LONG and Rambling Message Ahead!

This is mostly rambling opinion - so feel free to skip it if you're in a hurry.

Yeah I think I may have browsed through that, was wondering if you'd ever ended up with one.

NO. Wouldn't mind trying one, one day. But you've seen the prices, lol. These days, I'm more trailing-edge than bleeding edge .

Also I noticed that too. Might as well just start calling open-hood rated bulbs as LEQ... Light-emitting quartz.

In truth, it's just a name. You can name yourself Shelia. That doesn't make you a woman. But a lot of folks would assume[/]... (Er... If you're actually a woman, substitute "Fred," I guess.) I don't necessarily believe that newbies (etc.) will associate LEC with LED, and the prices that some of them can command. But IDK.

I remember when sulfur plasma was looking like "It'll be on the market in a few years - and a force to be reckoned with." And they did look pretty awesome. Little tiny "bulb," nothing to see here folks, lol. And then it fired up and you might get the same visual impression you got from staring at the sun: big black spot that has a lit ring around it, moving a little as your eyes get blasted so bad that they can't hold completely still (do NOT do this!) and are so overpowered that they can't really process the amount of light. And - IIRC - they had something in common with a microwave (what powered them, I think?).

I thought, while I probably wouldn't be able to afford one, it'd be awesome to see a bunch of grows that used them. I guess that didn't happen. CMH/LEC, OtOH... They're here. Actually, they've been here for a while (years). They're not cheap - but you're not sitting there just hoping you might stumble across one that costs less than $1,200, either. Within range of many folks, I guess you could say?

Not mainstream. But maybe they would be - or on the verge of it - were it not for the influx of LED grow light panels over the last several years? Years back, I was able to run a relatively high wattage room with multiple HIDs on a "Sun Circle" type mover. The setup was majority HPS with one MH. Lots of light and a great spectral mix. I get the impression that these bulbs... That they're the results of the manufacturers trying to create the single-bulb equivalent, lol - lots of light and a great spectrum.

Any idea what kind of LED setup would compare with one of the 315 cmh lamps, and how the heat output would compare?

Not even a guess at this point. I do like the look of the output vs. the purplish light of many LEDs - but as that might have nothing to do with the prowess in terms of growing cannabis, it's just a thing. To me, it seems like you'd want to compare price of the equipment (obviously), but also production/yield (again, fairly obvious). There's also how much it costs to run a thing (electricity).

All of these things seem to be "in the range," which makes CMH/LEC a viable option, IMHO. You can get cheaper LEDs, and you can get ones that cost well above the price of admission for CMH. I have noticed that some cheap LED products... Well, when a great many people talk about warranties and service being excellent - that's nice, it really is. But I've had lighting products where I couldn't have told you about those things because I never once had to get the things serviced/repaired, lol. IDK... If the bulb fails in your ceramic metal halide fixture (or you screw around and break it), you can probably go pick one up, unscrew the old one (using a potato for a handle if it's shattered), and screw the new one in. Done. LED service takes longer, unless you live near a supply house or warranty center. THAT would be a consideration, I'd think. Downtime for a garden light really sucks.

Heat... There seems to be some misconception that LEDs run cooler, probably because a HID's 315-watt, 400-watt, 600-watt, etc. bulb is called what it is - but a cheap(?) "600w LED panel" might only be using 272 watts. Watt-for-watt, in a closed space (IOW, one with walls/floor/ceiling), a watt of heat is a watt of heat (more or less). Okay, fine, no big deal... right?

But if you've got a hot HID, you can stick it in an air-cooled reflector. You can set it up on a separate duct run. SEAL IT from the garden space - no air mixing. We're coming up on the colder months in the northern half of the world. You're running a garden, and it produces heat. You're living in a house - and paying to heat it. Hmm, lol. You can "blow that heat" into your living space, because it doesn't have a chance to pick up the cannabis' odor. You can spend $20(?) on an insulated reflector cover. You can even go the extra mile and use insulated ducting (or wrap it with insulation). Waste heat is only waste heat if you're not trying to stay warm in the next room, IMHO.

You can't do this with 99% of the LED panels on the market. Oh, I suppose you could, but you'd have to get creative with some tools and materials, and you'd need to seal a lot of air-gaps. Most folks don't bother, so they have to treat all of the air as one thing instead of separating most of the heat from the smell.

Ballasts... Most HID ballasts are separate with a nice (relatively) long cord. Stick it in the hallway, its heat is removed from the garden. Most LED power supplies are... within the unit. IN the grow room. Heat. Why? Saves a nickel over having it separate, lol.

One of our new sponsors, GROWant, has some products which have remote power supplies! This is a great thing, IMHO. Frankly, I look at it like knocking the corners off the square wheels on a wagon so it'll be easier to pull, lol - common sense. But I still give major credit to the company for actually doing it. I've been vocal (er, loudly typing, lol?) about this for a long time now, so I do not consider myself to be influenced by it in any way - but in the interests of full disclosure: DISCLAIMER: This sponsor is sending me one of their products to do a grow with. (I don't think it's one with remote power supply, though.)

But there's another consideration, IMHO, and that's your growing style/method. You can use CMH in a vertical orientation. This is nothing new for HIDs, people have been doing it for years (do a web-search for "Heath Robinson" and prepare to drool ). I just don't see how this can be accomplished with any kind of panel light. If you're not interested in the "vertical-orientation thing," then it is not a consideration; but if you are...

the Philips lamps are pretty spendy

Are they the ones who've been doing the majority of the innovation? Are their products known for quality? There might be reasons for the price (difference). Whether it'll directly translate to greater yields and/or product longevity/quality, IDK.

If you create a hammer and sell it for $500, I could probably copy it and sell it for $50 (assuming you're not using exotic materials or the like) or even less. But something as complicated as even a light bulb... They use different mixes and coatings in order to get the exact output that they do. And they're not going to put all of that on the package so that John Chinaman can immediately turn around and start crapping them out by the truckload. Or the quality of the thing might be significantly different. I've seen (HPS) bulb examination/tests where you could tell just by looking that one was of poorer build quality. No moving parts - and you aren't using the things to drive in nails in between lighting sessions, lol - but I'd want the highest quality bulb I could afford, just the same. Some failures... can be catastrophic .

Seems like the two top of the line options are Hydrofarm and SunSystem, but those are both $400 and $500 respectively.

Been selling products to cannabis growers for decades now. And, from their prices, I'd guess that they've always known this :rolleyes3 . Still, their more expensive products are probably not likely to be "junk." But I don't think either manufacturers their own bulbs and stuff, do they? Hmm... IDK, to be honest.

But yeah $500 on a light... Ouch.

Ouch. Lol. How much is an LED panel that actually consumes 315 watts? I've seen them run $800+. A Mercedes costs more than a Caviler (or whatever "made to be abused by teenagers" vehicle in their current lineup compares to it). They'll both get you to work on time, lol. Some folks want more. Air conditioning? That'll cost you a little extra. 640 horsepower supercharged V8? Better call the loan officer for that one.

I'd compare the 315-watt CMH to a 400-watt HPS. One costs more - but has a better spectrum and appears to reliably produce more. Costs more... But not 10X more. It also uses a little less electricity. Whether or not you'd have it in use long enough for that to pay off, it still gives you a little back (so to speak) each month. (85 watts x 12 (or 18) hours x ~30 days) less electricity. Rinse/lather/repeat. I have to watch my electric bill, but I also have to watch my total home electrical use, because I have a very limited overall capacity. Even if I could afford higher electric bills, my house's infrastructure wouldn't support it. So, FOR ME, that'd be a big thing. (Especially if I wanted to run TWO bulbs ).

Some people compare them to 600-watt HPS. IDK if that's a fair comparison or not. But the fact that (some) people do would seem to speak highly for the 315-watt CMH.

I'm not saying LEDs are not on par with the CMHs at all, but there's just SO many more options in LEDs that I have no idea what I'd got for $500.

I have no idea what you'd get, either. Take all LED grow lights together, stick them into a bag (okay, a rather large bag), and draw one out at random... You might be pleased, you might go looking for someone to punch. Some products aren't very good (IMHO). Some products are knockoffs of others. LMAO, but some products are knockoffs of products which aren't very good in the first place. Anyone got a map to this madness, lol?

You probably won't see that with CMH. Shopping ought to be easier, at least.

In comparison, the SunSystems with a Phillips ColorMaster seems pretty universally recognized as top notch quality. Like the market is just not as vast, so it's a lot easier to nail down "The One Light to Rule Them All" lol I think with all the LED options out there, I'd drive myself crazy whether I got "the one".

That is significant. And you've just explained to yourself why Phillips (and SunSystem) are more expensive, methinks. It also means that, IF you choose CMH... you're almost done (as opposed to choosing LED and then having to do lots more research in order to have a reasonable expectation of getting a high-quality, high-performing product).

I haven't even got .5 grams per watt off my 400 W HPS so I'm wondering what kind of increased yields I'd see with the 315 cmh and whether it would make it worth the initial cost.

I'm wondering why you don't figure that out now. A chronic low-production thing isn't necessarily going to vanish by switching lights. Sure, it might - if your current lighting equipment is just below par to begin with. Running one of those crappy "don't blow on my reflector, man, you'll bend it!" $35 open reflectors? Hardware store utility-class bulb? Yeah, buying a new setup will change all that - but so would buying better components using the current technology.

Otherwise... Low-production strain (I'd understand that; I like sativas)? If so, you'd probably want to tailor your expectations accordingly. But there are growing methods that'd help. After all, you're not lighting your plants, lol - you're lighting the space that they're in. Among other things, this means that having a space that is larger than your light(s) can properly illuminate will hurt your yield. You want the walls close enough - and reflective enough - to confine your light to the area where your plants are. Having unused areas within your garden will also negatively impact yield.

Some folks end up with rather amazing yield numbers by going with a sog style of growing and packing in (for example) 112 "budcicles" growing out of 2-liter bottles. Others might do the same thing with scrog, attempting to end up with one cola per hole in the screen. This works well for sativas with a longer internodal spacing, IMHO - but it does tend to add to the vegetative period length. Maybe you're growing 15 different strains (or phenotypes), and they have differing heights - so you're forced to raise your light to accommodate the tall ones, which harms (in terms of production) the shorter plants? In general, people who consistently get the highest gram per watt numbers grow the same strain or at least ones that are close in their growth patterns. And they do so repeatedly, getting to know what nutrient ratios/strengths work best for that particular strain. If they DO grow multiple strains, they may be mixing separately for each. Et cetera.

(Again, "in general,") cannabis can process more light-energy as temperatures increase. This appears to hold true up to about 86°F or 87°F, assuming normal CO₂ levels (supplementing raises the optimum temperature range). This will be strain-dependent to a degree! But even then, the thing is still there (cold-weather strains will just have lower numbers). If temperatures are too cool, the plants cannot process as much light-energy. Too hot and not only do you lose efficiency in that regard, but growth may slow/stop.

Maybe you grow in soil? If you simply prefer to - maybe you like "organics," or have some other definite reason - then there you go, lol. You'd most likely be able to increase your numbers by switching to hydroponics... But if you do not enjoy growing this way, then it becomes a job. That's a personal decision. And it might be more important than the difference in yield (especially if you're only growing for yourself).

Going rate of a good ounce is well over $200 in any store here

The last time I even thought about buying cannabis, I saw prices of $100 to $120 per quarter-ounce. Want to trade locations, lol? But, yes, it sucks that something costs so MUCH more to buy than it does to grow.

gotta figure if I even get 2 more ounces per harvest out of it, it would pay for itself the first harvest.

THAT is a good way to look at things.

I think we talked about this all before.

Maybe? I can't remember sh!t these days.

Just don't wanna shrink my tent, and can't go with a big 600 W on my crappy electrical setup

Ah. Want big grow, can't support it. Yeah... me, too. And for the same reason. It may not be practical (and will definitely be expensive), but have you considered running a "flip" setup? In other words, having two (flowering) spaces, that alternate light/dark periods? You double your electrical cost - but you do not double your usage at any one time.

it seems like the CMH is like, the answer sitting in a guilded light shining down from the heavens with a nice harpsicord sound playing behind it.

LMAO. Someone once told me, "If it looks like it's too good to be true... make sure someone isn't rifling through your wallet you're being distracted by something shiny."

Still, yes, they do seem to be getting great reviews. Why not take the plunge and add your thoughts/impressions to the knowledge base? IF it's not going to be a great financial hardship and all that. You can always sell your current stuff. Or, if you end up being unsatisfied, sell the new stuff. You'd lose money doing the latter, but at least you'd get some of it back. You can always look into that "flip" thing and run both sets, lol.

My GUESS is that you'll see an improvement. But I couldn't begin to quantify it for you. Sorry. I'm just a guy that grows a little and reads a lot. Every time I stick a new fact in my head, I end up pushing an old one out one of my ears, lol. There's just so much variation on price (etc.). I could find a $22 HPS bulb and a $100 one of the same wattage - and I could find people who are happy with each. If you're looking to wring the highest yield out of your garden, though, you're probably going to be spending more money than average on it. And, again, you'll also be chasing every variable to see if it is helping or hurting your yield. Basically, you'll be leaving "plug and play" behind....

 

[SwAggNiFiCeNt]

Bravo TS. I thought I'd seen some of ur long posts but as usual, very helpful, informative and extremely well thought out