Scooby_Snacks
New Member
Started another 4 beans. Right now I've got it about 8" above the tops, they just sprouted. I plan on running the light closer than I did last run. I'll probably lower the light to 5" - 7" within a week or so.
Testing New LED Lights vs 1000w HPS
- Thread starter ledtester
- Start date
Started another 4 beans. Right now I've got it about 8" above the tops, they just sprouted. I plan on running the light closer than I did last run. I'll probably lower the light to 5" - 7" within a week or so.
WarBux79
Well-Known Member
Any difference in the flavor or high between the two lights? How about the looks of each, you mention there was a lot of resin under LED. Do you feel the LED produced more resin then the HPS or less?
Scooby, I tried the light 4-12 inches away from the tops of the plants for veg and flower. If your going for really short bushes 6-8 inches seemed to be perfect for veg. I noticed the plants bleaching some at 4-5 inches.
Scooby, I tried the light 4-12 inches away from the tops of the plants for veg and flower. If your going for really short bushes 6-8 inches seemed to be perfect for veg. I noticed the plants bleaching some at 4-5 inches.
ezmoney
New Member
Thanks for letting us know
Here's the link for all who are reading; I'm in!
Eagles "Lil Mama Wants To Live" HGL LED grow
I put a link to it in your signature as well
scumbragger
New Member
Still playing barber for the next couple of days...we we're going to wait and take some dry pics so you could actually see the difference of the best couple of plants from each side...I think that we're going to see the same weight / watt difference...you know what I mean...LOL
so you think the led buds got more trich's? your sayin the grams per ratio gonna be close?
Can you post your numbers while we're waiting for pics
scumbragger
New Member
I think there's about a 20% more trich production with the LED's which they do taste different but don't seem to be any better meds. I should have some numbers for the LED's tomorrow.
I 'm hoping Cammie will let me keep the damaged light I have to try another test using four panels instead of 3. I think with the extra light, doing a SOG grow with 18-24" plants should bring the numbers up considerably.
WarBux79
Well-Known Member
I cant wait to see the numbers! It will be interesting.
Scooby_Snacks
New Member
scumbragger
New Member
A let down is more like it...LOL...From sheer coverage capacity this was no contest from the begining. Looking at the grows currently ongoing, like yours WB I'm not sure how much better results we can get since I happen to think that these plants looked further along then what you guys have going for the same period.Most of us seem to have about the same growing experience. Lets compare.These are some of your plants from week 6.
Here's some of ours from week 6.
Here are a couple of pics comparing 2 HPS plants (left) to the two best LED plants. The first LED plant looks like has a pretty good cola but it's actually two which you can't see because of the crap pic quality which we apologize for. The other pics are of some of the HPS plants mimicking one of Cammie's pictures and what we were expecting for these LED's but...Keep in mind these are trimmed and dried already.
So there's still one more HPS plant to dry but here are some numbers.....LED = 329 grams......HPS = 939 grams +
Scooby_Snacks
New Member
I'd say greatly disappointed would be closer. Even if you were to say you could increase yield by 30%-50% by dialing in your grow, it still wouldn't be a contest. All those cost savings advantages that were spoken about kinda go out the window with results like these.
This grow really looks like using 1/3 the wattage of an HPS light in LED's produces almost exactly... 1/3 the bud. Yikes... I didn't wanna hear that!
The plain and simple fact here guys, is I think to get what she was doing, we need as many units or more! Think about how many she had over a 2x4 table? What was it like 5 or something like that? That's just insane....I have three of those 126w units over a 2x4 area and to be honest, it doesn't cover the whole area, only directly below the lights, and the dimensions within those light housing. IE: 12.5"x19" is the unit dimensions, therefor my footprint is just that, 12.5"x19".
Her's were hanging at angles, basically stacked side by side by side, etc...
I don't think we can say the lights don't work, but a lot of people have tested these things, and nobody even seems to be remotely close to what HGL is supposedly pulling from her grows. Its a conundrum!!
Thanks for all the time and energy spent on this thread! At least in the end, all was green!
Go Green!!!
Her's were hanging at angles, basically stacked side by side by side, etc...
I don't think we can say the lights don't work, but a lot of people have tested these things, and nobody even seems to be remotely close to what HGL is supposedly pulling from her grows. Its a conundrum!!
Thanks for all the time and energy spent on this thread! At least in the end, all was green!
Go Green!!!
Very interesting, let's discuss it some more.
I've been reading all the LED threads and have been very interested in the topic. It's so great that we're starting to see some of these finish up so we can get into the discussion of "value proposition"
I'll try to be very balanced with my comments, but please call me out if you think I'm missing something.
Let's talk about 126 LED = 400 HPS. In many of the threads the most I've heard anyone say one of these could do was 2 grams per watt. 126=400 would mean 3.2 grams per watt, (assuming a 400 HPS does 1g/w). This would be fantastic but I don't think you need to get that high of a ratio in order to make LEDs worth the purchase price.
Many of the experienced growers here use a 1 g/watt benchmark as the standard to hit (for HPS anyway). I think 1g/w is reasonable for LED when all the costs and benefits are considered but this is obviously and individual consideration.
In this instance we're at 0.87 grams per watt LED, which is pretty darn close. The HPS will clearly be over 1g/w when the last plant's weight is added (outstanding result)
The issue in my mind, is the start up cost vs. the savings (tangible and intangible).
Pro's =
stealthiness
lack of added heat
lowered energy cost
safety
long bulb life (5 years claimed)
Cons =
purchase cost
learning curve
I didn't list budability in my commentary because I looked at the pictures This is enough to settle the issue in my mind whether you can flower, but I'd still love to hear comments about how tight and hard the nugs are and whether there's any difference in the effect, smell, etc.
So in my mind the issue is one of payback, not function, which is what I'd hoped for from the beginning, as a fan of technology.
Scooby spoke of maybe getting 50% better from experience, this would take one well over the 1g/w benchmark.
So, is the payback worth it?
I've been reading all the LED threads and have been very interested in the topic. It's so great that we're starting to see some of these finish up so we can get into the discussion of "value proposition"
I'll try to be very balanced with my comments, but please call me out if you think I'm missing something.
Let's talk about 126 LED = 400 HPS. In many of the threads the most I've heard anyone say one of these could do was 2 grams per watt. 126=400 would mean 3.2 grams per watt, (assuming a 400 HPS does 1g/w). This would be fantastic but I don't think you need to get that high of a ratio in order to make LEDs worth the purchase price.
Many of the experienced growers here use a 1 g/watt benchmark as the standard to hit (for HPS anyway). I think 1g/w is reasonable for LED when all the costs and benefits are considered but this is obviously and individual consideration.
In this instance we're at 0.87 grams per watt LED, which is pretty darn close. The HPS will clearly be over 1g/w when the last plant's weight is added (outstanding result)
The issue in my mind, is the start up cost vs. the savings (tangible and intangible).
Pro's =
stealthiness
lack of added heat
lowered energy cost
safety
long bulb life (5 years claimed)
Cons =
purchase cost
learning curve
I didn't list budability in my commentary because I looked at the pictures
This is enough to settle the issue in my mind whether you can flower, but I'd still love to hear comments about how tight and hard the nugs are and whether there's any difference in the effect, smell, etc.So in my mind the issue is one of payback, not function, which is what I'd hoped for from the beginning, as a fan of technology.
Scooby spoke of maybe getting 50% better from experience, this would take one well over the 1g/w benchmark.
So, is the payback worth it?
The LED will work in a small scale closet or table.They realy are limited in there application.The coverage per watt with reflector is much greater with HID.So here is the skinny,if you grow in a small place say 4x4 you will need 2 LED to the one HID.Your start up cost doubled and you energy consumpions is the same.If you have a big garden you need ,lets say 12x12 you need 15 lights if you go LED or 2 -1000 watt HID on rails.your cost now went threw the roof with LED.Everything has its place.
LED CONS
1 on my list is coverage its the lights biggest downfall
This hurtle, i realy dont think this light will ever get over.
LED CONS
1 on my list is coverage its the lights biggest downfall
This hurtle, i realy dont think this light will ever get over.
Scooby_Snacks
New Member
I think it's a good question to ask. For fairness though I think cfl's need to be brought into the discussion. From the grows I watched before getting my LED's I thought cfl's only produced light airy buds. I've since changed my opinion from both my 1 BB and other grows I've now seen. I think all 3 types have their uses depending on what's most important to you. And of course the LED portion of the discussion changes again once the new Hydro's come out soon which I believe have 2x lumens but $100 or so more (or other Manuf. next gen).
I think the biggest issues with the LED's is coverage area. I don't think I've seen a grow with a Hydro LED yet where they haven't been surprised with it's small coverage area. I think for stealth cabinet grows this is the best option. Soil grows I personally think 2 plants is max per 126w, no matter what pots you pick, unless you grow plants under 15" thereabouts.
The question going through my head right now is this. I have the space for more plants than I have, but HID is not an option. To completely light my space (4'11 x 4'11) I'm talking about a minimum of 6 if not 8 126w lights. Knowing now what I do, I would buy 12-16 of the 63w so that I can form a light canopy over the plants. I think other than pure watts this is the other reason Hydro get the results she does. LED coming from different angles. @ roughly $250 a pop, I'm in $3000 - $4000.
Why would I invest $3k-$4k when I could get 2 cfl hoods ($125 each) and 4 cfl's bulbs (2 veg, 2 flower). I know they now have both veg and flowering bulbs in stock up to 300w (and Envirotech is talking about up to 500w parax bulbs I think, ? on price) for under $100 ($85 last I checked). $85 x 4 + $125 x 2 = $590, for the sake of argument let's call it $1000.
What would get me to spend 3-4 times more on lights? YIELD
As an afterthought, without even trying with my cfl, on a first run, I think the least I'll get is .5g/w and could be as much as .8g/w. I'd go to Tunes420, Drojo or anyone of the other experienced cfl'ers to see what they typically get per watt but I think .75g /w or more than easily achievable. How much more yield is worth that cost increase? I will bow down to anyone (and clean your house) who can yield 2.5g - 3g/w with LED right now, never mind the 3.17g/w that would compare to a 400w HPS that's claimed. So where's the line? For me, unless I see 1.7, 1.8 approaching the 2g/w from the better growers and an average of 1.2-1.4g/w for the average grower, I don't see the value in the added cost.
Ok but LED's last 5-7 years at 24 hours a day and since they are not on 24 hours a day they could last up to 10 years. Probably true. How many people who buy new tech keep it it's entire life span? How long until the newest model out convinces you that it's time to upgrade? 2 years? 3 years? Even if the price comes down 1/2 and the quality improves so you only need 7 - 10 lights, your still in almost another $1k. How much are 2-3 year old LED's worth?
My mind is not completely made up yet, this is just where the discussion is in my head. My second LED run, as well as some of the other test grows will make up my mind.
I think the biggest issues with the LED's is coverage area. I don't think I've seen a grow with a Hydro LED yet where they haven't been surprised with it's small coverage area. I think for stealth cabinet grows this is the best option. Soil grows I personally think 2 plants is max per 126w, no matter what pots you pick, unless you grow plants under 15" thereabouts.
The question going through my head right now is this. I have the space for more plants than I have, but HID is not an option. To completely light my space (4'11 x 4'11) I'm talking about a minimum of 6 if not 8 126w lights. Knowing now what I do, I would buy 12-16 of the 63w so that I can form a light canopy over the plants. I think other than pure watts this is the other reason Hydro get the results she does. LED coming from different angles. @ roughly $250 a pop, I'm in $3000 - $4000.
Why would I invest $3k-$4k when I could get 2 cfl hoods ($125 each) and 4 cfl's bulbs (2 veg, 2 flower). I know they now have both veg and flowering bulbs in stock up to 300w (and Envirotech is talking about up to 500w parax bulbs I think, ? on price) for under $100 ($85 last I checked). $85 x 4 + $125 x 2 = $590, for the sake of argument let's call it $1000.
What would get me to spend 3-4 times more on lights? YIELD
As an afterthought, without even trying with my cfl, on a first run, I think the least I'll get is .5g/w and could be as much as .8g/w. I'd go to Tunes420, Drojo or anyone of the other experienced cfl'ers to see what they typically get per watt but I think .75g /w or more than easily achievable. How much more yield is worth that cost increase? I will bow down to anyone (and clean your house) who can yield 2.5g - 3g/w with LED right now, never mind the 3.17g/w that would compare to a 400w HPS that's claimed. So where's the line? For me, unless I see 1.7, 1.8 approaching the 2g/w from the better growers and an average of 1.2-1.4g/w for the average grower, I don't see the value in the added cost.
Ok but LED's last 5-7 years at 24 hours a day and since they are not on 24 hours a day they could last up to 10 years. Probably true. How many people who buy new tech keep it it's entire life span? How long until the newest model out convinces you that it's time to upgrade? 2 years? 3 years? Even if the price comes down 1/2 and the quality improves so you only need 7 - 10 lights, your still in almost another $1k. How much are 2-3 year old LED's worth?
My mind is not completely made up yet, this is just where the discussion is in my head. My second LED run, as well as some of the other test grows will make up my mind.
Very interesting, let's discuss it some more.
I've been reading all the LED threads and have been very interested in the topic. It's so great that we're starting to see some of these finish up so we can get into the discussion of "value proposition"
I'll try to be very balanced with my comments, but please call me out if you think I'm missing something.
Let's talk about 126 LED = 400 HPS. In many of the threads the most I've heard anyone say one of these could do was 2 grams per watt. 126=400 would mean 3.2 grams per watt, (assuming a 400 HPS does 1g/w). This would be fantastic but I don't think you need to get that high of a ratio in order to make LEDs worth the purchase price.
Many of the experienced growers here use a 1 g/watt benchmark as the standard to hit (for HPS anyway). I think 1g/w is reasonable for LED when all the costs and benefits are considered but this is obviously and individual consideration.
In this instance we're at 0.87 grams per watt LED, which is pretty darn close. The HPS will clearly be over 1g/w when the last plant's weight is added (outstanding result)
The issue in my mind, is the start up cost vs. the savings (tangible and intangible).
Pro's =
stealthiness
lack of added heat
lowered energy cost
safety
long bulb life (5 years claimed)
Cons =
purchase cost
learning curve
I didn't list budability in my commentary because I looked at the pictures
So in my mind the issue is one of payback, not function, which is what I'd hoped for from the beginning, as a fan of technology.
Scooby spoke of maybe getting 50% better from experience, this would take one well over the 1g/w benchmark.
So, is the payback worth it?
MountainHigh
New Member
I know what HPS can do and I have nothing vested in LED's (think they are a bit overpriced for the technology and is a baby technology, no one is using full capability that current tech has, ehhh) and plain not sure why some wafer company isn't just starting to make grow light LED array's on chip with some programming capabilities for different light conditions, probably fit all kinds of different LED's on them.
The programming part allows a light sensor array also onchip to recieve return light and auto adjust LED height above the canopy for the most return light (I.E. best dispersion for whatever setting you put it at), could also vary frequency and try to control canopy color and health with varied lighting frequencies and using LED tilt to focus and move a spot of higher intensity around like a light mover....and lower lighting or direct it elsewhere with LED tilt for when a careless grower or one on vacation lets a bud get too close (The tilt could also autofill in canopy to level height with selective lighting amounts to lower budding sights). Have the timer cycles built in for the light or on software on the computer, could have a tiny wireless modem and you can control whole grow from your computer....I mean seriously, on/off switch and LED's for over a grand.
Sorry for the minor vent, this isn't aimed at any one company or even the LED grow light industy, just at the lack of innovation in America, we used to just strive for the coolest, made other countries buy our stuff.
BTW IF YOU MAKE THAT LIGHT I GET TWO 300 WATT ONES FREE
You know if you hooked up that sensor to computer controlled light movers on the light and one more added on chip or just added to said very expensive light, a color corrected camera that you can monitor your grow from your computer to your phone when you are on vacation in Hawaii visiting OMM or me someday maybe
Ok, last idea, my buzz is going....but for software you could use that camera to take a canopy map and you could control the intensity to any area with a simple dispersion map with drag and drop patterns and like spray can in Paint programs you could program the light to dump a different color or intensity on buds direct and on foliage by painting and thus gives the grower ability to play with an expensive toy....
The programming part allows a light sensor array also onchip to recieve return light and auto adjust LED height above the canopy for the most return light (I.E. best dispersion for whatever setting you put it at), could also vary frequency and try to control canopy color and health with varied lighting frequencies and using LED tilt to focus and move a spot of higher intensity around like a light mover....and lower lighting or direct it elsewhere with LED tilt for when a careless grower or one on vacation lets a bud get too close (The tilt could also autofill in canopy to level height with selective lighting amounts to lower budding sights). Have the timer cycles built in for the light or on software on the computer, could have a tiny wireless modem and you can control whole grow from your computer....I mean seriously, on/off switch and LED's for over a grand.
Sorry for the minor vent, this isn't aimed at any one company or even the LED grow light industy, just at the lack of innovation in America, we used to just strive for the coolest, made other countries buy our stuff.
BTW IF YOU MAKE THAT LIGHT I GET TWO 300 WATT ONES FREE
You know if you hooked up that sensor to computer controlled light movers on the light and one more added on chip or just added to said very expensive light, a color corrected camera that you can monitor your grow from your computer to your phone when you are on vacation in Hawaii visiting OMM or me someday maybe
Ok, last idea, my buzz is going....but for software you could use that camera to take a canopy map and you could control the intensity to any area with a simple dispersion map with drag and drop patterns and like spray can in Paint programs you could program the light to dump a different color or intensity on buds direct and on foliage by painting and thus gives the grower ability to play with an expensive toy....