Talk about different pheno types

R

Rubby813

New Member
Started this project on 12/17. Seed planted directly in Botanicare " readygro" coco mix in 7 liter pots.
We are now on day 40 from seed. Plants started to show pistols on day 26. Seem to be budding nicely,
Although the difference in phenos is drastic.
Bubbleicious especially. All plants grown in same conditions. Had to move 5 plants to the bloom room, ran out of head space. So now I have 5 that are on 12/12 light ( 600 hps) and 5 under t5 vho flouro. At20/4.
At this point I notice no difference in the 2 groups developmentally.
Very interesting. We will see what happens.
First pic. Is bubbleicious. #2 is cherrybomb.
First try on a autos. Any thoughts.
image14858.jpg
image18289.jpg
 
You got me curious so I read through this page quick: What is a Phenotype and What Does Phenotype Mean?

Seems phenotypes are all about the different physical characteristics of plants. Obviously one of the plants is taller than the other in both pictures, but looking at the other characteristics, they seem very similar. Leaves look the same and have the same color, can't tell much else until the buds develop a lot more. I'm thinking the taller plants are just stronger growers, which I guess is a physical trait lol
 
Maybe Pheno is not the right word.
Possibly just stronger plant? There are some differences in structure especially internodal spacing. The shorter bubbleicious is packing on more bud by far.
I put 5 (taller plants) into the bloom room because i was running out of height fast in the veg. area.
No other reason. and I am finishing my other girls so it's 12/12 for these 5. It will be interesting to see the diff. between these 5 and the 20/4 plants.
Thanks for the link Alienpus. We will see what grows.
 
Rubby813 said:
Maybe Pheno is not the right word.
Possibly just stronger plant? There are some differences in structure especially internodal spacing. The shorter bubbleicious is packing on more bud by far.
I put 5 (taller plants) into the bloom room because i was running out of height fast in the veg. area.
No other reason. and I am finishing my other girls so it's 12/12 for these 5. It will be interesting to see the diff. between these 5 and the 20/4 plants.
Thanks for the link Alienpus. We will see what grows.
Click to expand...


Actually Stealtboat supplied the link
 
I'm seeing this with two Auto Candy Kushs that I'm growing right now. One just harvested last night was 20 tall, the other one, planted a day before the one I just harvested, is 13 inches tall, but stacked with bud. Same breeder, same conditions, feeding, etc. Interesting, because they are very different looking plants.

One thing to add,,, I've read a few folks around here, I think DonP or somebody like that said 12/12 for autos isn't that bad... I'm probably wrong. But, I've read a lot of conflicting stuff on autos. Anyway, good thread, I'll be watching to learn more.

Another to add now that I read that link about pheno types,, I definitely saw different leaf pheno types between my two plants. One much more sativa-ish the other indica. Or maybe that was a seed gene thing?

Learning all the time and loving it!
 
I am growing two Bubble Kush Autos, both very different. One is tall like a sativa, the other is short and round. The taller one started out a day later than the other, and is a paler green. Both showed pistils on day 19 IIRC. Take a look at my journal if you'd like, and hit me up with any questions over there. I'll try and help where I can.
 
Sorry, the user I was talking about is donpaul.p and the thread I was reading is here, post two:

Auto flowering schedules

donpaul.p said:
so this is what ive found,
strain was kc45 auto regular grown under 400watt dual spectrum hps with 55,000lumins, grown using ---
light schedules used was 24-0, 20-4 and 12-12

under 24-0 and 20-4 i was getting very poor results, averaging around 1/4oz to 3 8ths. this was from several plants all hit very poor yields,
under 12-12 i averaged around 2oz per plant.

under 24-0 the plants didnt reach 1ft high, the buds where small,
under 12-12 the plants hit 2ft and over, buds where over 1ft in length and produced 2oz in total,

growing conditions where the same for each grow, temps, nutrients, distance from light etc etc,

so this is what i found and im producing more autos seeds to run more tests.

what im trying to work out is do autos flower due to age in days, do they reach harvest due to age in days,
or do they start flowering due to age in light hours and reach harvest due to age in light hours,

let me explain, so under 12-12 the kc45's i grew where under 12-12 from seed to harvest, the plants took between 2 and 3 weeks longer to start flowering and they took just over 3 weeks longer to be ready to harvest when compared with 20-4 and 24-0 schedules,

as i got these results off several plants then it could not of been a lucky seed producing 2oz, all the plants under 12-12 reached at least 1.5ft including males before showing sex, under 20-4 and 24-0 the plants didnt even reach 1ft in height at harvest.

as i grew several plants under both schedules i found that the plants under 12-12 all took longer to start flowering, all took longer to reach harvest and all made it double or sometimes tripped the size of the plants grown under 24-0 and 20-4,

so the kc45 leads me to believe that autos may grow according to light in hours and not age in days,
so for example, lets say an auto needs 240 hours of light to reach harvest,
under 24-0 this would be 10 days,
under 12-12 it would be double this,

my plants clearly took longer to start flowering and reach harvest under 12-12 and got much bigger under 12-12.

so if they flower according to age in days, then this suggests the plants would not flower at all under 24-0 as they would need the dark period to know its been 1 day, under constant light it dont know what a day is as such, we know ruderalis grows in areas that dont have seasons as such so it has long days or long nights so it dont flower due to photo periods so it uses something else to signal the start of flower.

so as my plants took over 3 weeks longer to reach harvest and this was with a few plants then this suggests that at least the kc45 strain dont flower and reach harvest due to age in days, if it did then it would start flowering at the same time under 12-12 and 24-0 and 20-4, but their was a difference of between 2 and 3 weeks with all the plants grown,

so that suggests the kc45 auto dont flower according to age in days, as it starts to flower earlier under 24-0 and is harvested weeks earlier under 24-0 and 20-4 then their must be something else going on,

hopefully some auto growers can add some of their own info to this thread so we can work out what strains work best with which schedule,

plus at the minute im collecting pollen from a kc45 auto male and ive been collecting it for a few days now and ive got another 2 kc45 autos growing under 12-12 and if one of these is fem then ill use it to just produce seeds so i have got plenty of seeds to work with so i can do more testing.[/QUOTED]
Click to expand...
 
Very interesting, I' m looking at my autos as I'm typing and I don't notice too much difference as far as size or amount of bud bettween the 12/12 plants and the 20/4 one, the thing I do notice is size difference( height). Unfortunately I only moved the taller plants to 12/12.
What I am wondering is if the longer dark period is when bud growth occurs. Same as with the plant height, I noticed the biggest growth comes at. Night. I have been making little hash marks on back wall and I see nearly if not all growth happens in the dark, no noticeable growth during lights on, so it would make sense that if you have a longer dark period = more growth both bud and height. What do you think?
 
Rubby813 said:
Very interesting, I' m looking at my autos as I'm typing and I don't notice too much difference as far as size or amount of bud bettween the 12/12 plants and the 20/4 one, the thing I do notice is size difference( height). Unfortunately I only moved the taller plants to 12/12.
What I am wondering is if the longer dark period is when bud growth occurs. Same as with the plant height, I noticed the biggest growth comes at. Night. I have been making little hash marks on back wall and I see nearly if not all growth happens in the dark, no noticeable growth during lights on, so it would make sense that if you have a longer dark period = more growth both bud and height. What do you think?
Click to expand...

I like this you got me thinking too.
They definitely do also grow in the dark, that means they used the energy accumulated during the day. So growth during the dark should be proportional the the amount of stored energy obtained during the day.
 
That article or thread I linked to makes me think 12/12 isn't the worst thing, they may take longer, though. But, that articl thread was a few years ago, and I assume things might have changed.
 
The energy harvested via the light reaction is stored by forming a chemical called ATP (adenosine triphosphate), a compound used by cells for energy storage. This chemical is made of the nucleotide adenine bonded to a ribose sugar, and that is bonded to three phosphate groups. This molecule is very similar to the building blocks for our DNA.
The dark reaction takes place in the stroma within the chloroplast, and converts CO2 to sugar. This reaction doesn’t directly need light in order to occur, but it does need the products of the light reaction (ATP and another chemical called NADPH). The dark reaction involves a cycle called the Calvin cycle in which CO2 and energy from ATP are used to form sugar. Actually, notice that the first product of photosynthesis is a three-carbon compound called glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate. Almost immediately, two of these join to form a glucose molecule.
Click to expand...

This was taken from a Photosynthesis article. Plants generally produce more sugars during the dark period, which can then turn into accelerated growth as long as it has the necessary building blocks to complete the cycle. If the plant has enough light and CO2 to maintain a high glucose production during the dark period, then you would see a higher level of growth. During the light cycle, the primary function of the plant is photosynthesis, so glucose production is lower.

I think it's all about finding that perfect balance of light vs dark. I also think that when we switch from a 20/4 schedule to a 12/12 schedule, we see a huge growth surge because of all the stored energy that the plant can now turn into glucose.

my two cents for what its worth.
 
Yeah, I think starting them 20/4 or even 24 straight is better then say 12/12 from start,, with autos anyway. But, I'm learning....
 
Very interesting g material. Thanks for the input.
Getting off topic but I am noticing a difference between the 2 groups. The plants in 20/4 vho flouro look very healthy, the ones under 12/12 600 watt hps with supplemental led not as much. Both receiving same watering/feed schedule. Getting a nute lockout I think. Not serious yet, I think I will give them a flush and cut back on nutes for now.
I've heard they can bee a little fussy.
Any thoughts?
 

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