SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

[KeifKeith]

A disappointing yield, less than 2 grams, but this was an ounce cobbled together from a variety of leftovers, some of that over a year old that was found out of place by a friend and sent on to me. Hard to be disappointed with that much generosity behind it.

If I mix it up using the old recipe, which works well for me, I can stretch it to get me through the next two months, at least. Too far away to begin worrying about running out. Anything can happen between now and then, and probably will
QUOTE]

Old recipe as in it was around March 2016?
I was trying to do the math on the latest recipe to get the approximate # of caps @ 20:1 per cc/ml of CCO.

 

[infiniteJuan]

I have many thoughts concerning the data collection repository problem, and they have been formed during my many hours of research among hundreds of threads and dozens of websites concerning MM. It almost seems like an extension of a segment of my career, and I just retired a few weeks ago! Hmmm ... noooooo not work again!

Where do I start relating my thoughts on the matter ...

DBMS - What database should be used? Access, MySQL, Oracle, etc. It seems a DBA (DataBase Admin) Web Developer would be a requirement, not a mundane task by any means. The database(s) must be located on 420 Magazine servers, as even this sentence is the legal property of site. I don't think 420Magazine is going to fold anytime soon, they seem to have the best practices and controls in place compared to anything else I've viewed on the WWW. Advertising and support seem first class, also a tribute to daily visitors and content quality. Also, since 420Magazine is the owner of these words, the considerable efforts required to assimilate and report the information would not be lost to fly by night WebHosts.

Even if Sue writes the most inclusive and accurate information gleaned from hundreds of experiences and informational posts, how could the distillation of her data be made available to the masses inside of 420Magazine? One of the business organizations I once worked with struggled with a similar problem, albeit not MM related. I've read the 420Magazine Mission Statement, it is succinct and deliberately open minded concerning Cannabis uses and MM information sharing. I would think 420 Magazine desires to support this type of development both for members use and for enrichment of their content in comparison to their competitors. Perhaps a Moderator or Employee of 420Magazine might have more insight as to the desirability and capability of 420Magazine hosting this MM database content. I think the "Where" is one of four nuts to crack, and is easiest to answer since the content is already owned. I'll not venture into copyright and liability as that is legal territory and I learned long ago I never wanted to be an attorney.

Perhaps the current "thread" structure of this public forum software might already provide hooks into a real back-end database, as least as it relates to the formalization of thread posts and links into searchable and filterable database content. Internet Forum software comes in many flavors, but most of them are designed around the requirement to search Text for Tags, and Images for Metadata (420Magazine currently strips metadata from images upon upload for very good reasons, thank you for looking out).

Perhaps the search feature inherent to most Internet Forum software could be utilized if the given "thread" is read-only excepting the author(s)? I know, more questions than answers, but this is a privately owned site and we need to most likely ask the owners and operators the right questions. Chances are this very subject has been yakked about during many a Monday morning meeting ad nauseum.

Any thoughts or desires Sue? I'm sure you wield more cred with 420Magazine than most other active members. Honestly, I am here because I found your thread the most mature, professional and still friendly concerning MM. Whew ... did I really just say anything, or did I just perform a mind dump concerning the frustration of finding quality information concerning MM production, use and benefits?

To quote you Sue, we are often playing the roles of live lab rats.

Oops ... did I just hijack your thread? Damn Keith, where have your manners gone? Sorry if this went in a undesired direction.

Keith

Nope, no hijack at all, Keith! Very pertinent questions that will need to be addressed. I think with Sue having the idea to put more solidified content within her blog, is a good start. Thanks so much Sue, and please, no hurry or rush getting that organized! I just wanted to put the idea out there and see if we could eventually work toward something more quick reference-like and perhaps even have the ability to discuss, update, and track changes as needed.

Sent using the 420Mag mobile app.

 

[Canyon]

The Morning After
This morning I reheated both batches. The 12:1 batch made 13 and a half caps. I took one and the half around 9:00. They work.

I let everything decarb for about an hour at 245 yesterday. When I reheated the oils this morning and after I had caped the 12:1 batch, I noticed a good amount of bubbles in the larger batch still on the warming burner. I checked the tempter of the oil and it was around 230. I worked the tempter up until I was not getting any bubbles at 245. The extra decrb may or may not have been a good idea because the other batch is working rather well.

I have not caped that batch. There is a lot of sediment in it. Oil is slow to filter and waste has to be considered. I probably will suck up all of the plant free oil I can and cap it. I am not sure what to do with what will be leftover.

Running Numbers
My first batch had a total THC content of 500mg and about 80mg of CBD. That batch had about 45mg of THC per cap. I took five a day for two days. That would be around 225mg of THC plus the 200mg that a gram of bud would have per day. That is less than I have been consuming. For now it is a better high than trying to regulate consuming just buds.

Just taking numbers from two products I get THC of BHO at 69% and Rosin at 56% though the Rosin had nearly 14% CBD for a combined 70% cannabinoid content. Collecting other test results could be useful for dousing and deciding how much carrier oil to use.

Tonight I will cap up most of the course screened batch and probably start off with it tomorrow to get a feel for how strong it is.

Sue,
As I understand your protocol, you take one table spoon of coco oil and some mango juice before your first capsule. Do you do that for later doses? I have only been using the juice and oil before the first dose.

Thanks everyone for following along with my attempt at documenting my experiences. Hopefully it will help someone. I will post more as I get more a costumed to using the caps.

Best
canyon

 

[Mr. Krip]

I have run across some issues that I want to cover. The first are things I bought. The ten pack of 10cc syringes had several problems. The graduation marks rub off if the oil gets on them. They are too light weight for oils. The plunger sticks with the coco, not with the lecethin.

The coconut oil is solid at room temp. I don't use syringes to measure it, but if I did, before extracting from the syringe I'd run (or soak) the syringe under some warm water for about 15-30 seconds so the oil would re-liquify and extract easier.

 

[SweetSue]

Think of it like this..
You want to write a book or keep a diary..
Instead of using a pen.. you store it online.
Pay for it and you have it private.. free= everyone can read.

It is a good thing.. all the info in case pc needs a format.. you have it collected in one place.

That's kinda what I do here, only scattered across the entire site, or so it sometimes feels.

Sue!! Have I told you lately that you are such an inspiration to me? I was talking to a friend about the Harlitsu (which I might rename HarlitSUE when I get it). He says he had bad mold exposure at one time and it still hits him with body pains and other symptoms. He can't even go into a shop willing has mold anywhere. He said he had been looking for CBD because when he had tried some out west it abrogated his symptoms! I HAVE to get this strain now! I told him I would supply him with what I could for free. In capsule form for daily and some rosin for quick action. My first legit medical patient. I am ordering as soon as my paycheck comes at the end of the month! It's amazing how you create a thought and suddenly the universe supplies the need! Keep pushing me Sue. The universe is begging me to help this man! I am so inspired!

Shiggity, this brought a big smile to my face. Your life is now forever changed. You made me proud buckaroo.

One of my daughters brought that product to my attention this past weekend, she has Endometriosis. I told her I would look into it after I tried to help her brother that struggles daily, not monthly. Well, gauging her response, I guess it is her time of the month! My kids, always keeping me engaged ... but I do love it really.

Please post if you try anything with either her product, or your own cocoa butter based infusion ... please?

Kids ... always wanting an equal share of Daddy.

Keith

It never stops does it? I tried, as did my mother before me, to treat both of my children fairly. My son knows I prefer my daughter. My daughter knows he's right. Hahaha!

I personally won't be in a position to play with suppositories until I have a decent harvest behind me. I swear, the challenge of staying ahead of my personal needs was daunting. Add in research needs and I need a room full of blooming lovelies.

Keith, there's no such thing as a threadjack in a study hall. Just sayin'

 

[SweetSue]

Sue,
As I understand your protocol, you take one table spoon of coco oil and some mango juice before your first capsule. Do you do that for later doses? I have only been using the juice and oil before the first dose.

Thanks everyone for following along with my attempt at documenting my experiences. Hopefully it will help someone. I will post more as I get more a costumed to using the caps.

Best
canyon

I take two THC BioBomb capsules a day, so I do the coconut oil and mango juice before those, about 45 minutes ahead. If I were taking them more frequently I'd probably not pre dose before everyone, but then I'm reasonably healthy and I'm not treating something like cancer.

You could fill capsules with the leftover oil that has the plant material in it. It won't hurt you and you won't taste it in capsule form.

It's been a delight to follow your experiment.

 

[Mr. Krip]

I personally won't be in a position to play with suppositories until I have a decent harvest behind me.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but are you saying that once you have a decent harvest behind you, you'll then be able to have a decent harvest in your behind???

 

[SweetSue]

CCO, Small Batch - Oil Distiller[/SIZE]

The wash had been in the freezer overnight to separate out the undesirable particulate matter. I began by straining that one last time.

Residue I didn't think was in there.

While that drained I measured out two cups of water into the collection jar and marked that level with a piece of tape. This is the maximum level I want to pull out. I don't want to leave too little and burn the oil on the hot bottom of the distiller.

What filtered out. Winterizing works.

The wash goes into the distiller and it gets closed up and turned on.

All set to go. can't see the tape from this side.

That's better.

With 2.5 cups of the cold wash it took 25 minutes to get warm enough to start boiling the alcohol off.

I stopped a little earlier than planned. I kept thinking about the oil being unprotected against the hot bottom because I pulled too much alcohol out.

I can see where this machine would prove to be invaluable with a larger batch. You could do quite a bit in this unit.

In the end I reclaimed 1 1/4 cups of the Everclear.

Time to evaporate the remaining ethanol off.

I purchased a smaller pan for this step, one that fits on my saucepan. This makes for a more efficient double boiler arrangement. An induction cooktop would be a big bonus at this point. I was considering purchasing one, but ShiggityFlip's convinced me to go solventless next year, so I'll put my money towards that instead.

There's point near the end when solvent gets trapped under the oil. This is easily released by agitating it with a toothpick.

This batch was a disappointing yield, but this is also a good lesson in how important it is to have good quality buds and plant material. Much of what I used was less than optimal for oil production, but I took the risk anyway. My reasoning was I wouldn't be losing anything and making it into edible capsules stretches it for me.

Any experience in oil production is a good thing. I learn just a little more every time through the process. Time to mix the BioBomb.

 

[SweetSue]

@keith: I neglected to answer one of your questions.

I'll be using this recipe for my capsules:

1 gr CCO + 5 gr coconut oil + 1 TBS lecithin + 3 TBS coconut oil.

I haven't worked out the dosage per on this, or maybe I did..... I can't remember, but I'll rework it tomorrow. Whatever it is it creates my perfect functional level. I'm getting ready to mix this up now.

 

[infiniteJuan]

Would solventless mean obtaining the concentrates via bud pressing and bubble hash?

 

[SweetSue]

Would solventless mean obtaining the concentrates via bud pressing and bubble hash?

Shiggity's pushing us to choose pressing and I think he's on to something. Not only is solvent rediculously expensive and difficult for many of us to access but it's a pain to separate from the oil. With a press the plant material can be fresh. Think of the possibilities.

 

[RheinRover]

Great looking oil Sue, just about a filter away from looking like full on Amber, not that the goal is pure amber.
Great Job, Great Teacher!

I made my second batch ever last night, and the winterization does seem to make a difference in clarity visually.

So how did that alcohol still work out for your Oil production Sue?
More hassle than the required effort considering the volume processed?

I'm interested in it's efficiency as CCO production may become a regular event if it proves to be of high efficacy for my son.

Also, I've read most things you have written the past two years or so, but I don't recall ...
Have your tried 99% Isopropyl vice Ethanol as the solvent agent in your CCO production? If so, any comments?

I have two fully decarbed CCO batches in two glass oral syringes now, one containing 2.5ml (after eating .5ml last week ... too large of a dose for a CCO Noob!), and the latest batch yielded a 5.25ml. I made this batch with a full whole plant including roots, washed and hung dried for a week (yes, washing cannabis doesn't ruin it), dried and coarsely chopped and lightly ground. The trunk is some tough ass fiber, no wonder it makes awesome ropes.

Just what you need, more questions to answer!


Look at me using another icon thingy!
Keith

Hi Keith,
Just wanted to share a few things with you. I have used 99% ISO and on my last batch I used Everclear. Now I'm no professional and have only made about 5 batches of oil myself but I must say the Everclear worked much better. My oil didn't come out nearly as green, got the golden brown color I was looking for. Also I feel a little better about using a food grade alcohol, since I'm not always sure everything is evaporated off fully. Now if we could just buy Everclear at the price of ISO

Almost done. I have a BioBomb Brownie defrosting to soak up the traces.

Morning Sue!

I used to do the double boiler like you but this past weekend I picked up a cheap rice cooker and I will never go back.It took care of nearly 2.5 liters of wash like it was nothing. Now this might not make the most sense for you since you have the distiller but its always an option. Also when it came down to the final reduction I took a few notes from another oil making journal. I filled a small pan with canola oil dropped a coin down in the middle for the measuring cup to rest on. I placed a 1 cup measuring cup in the middle filled with the wash. This turned out to work very well and since you never bring the cooking oil up to boiling it can be reused.
Snapped a few pictures from the oil making extravaganza.

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Shiggity's pushing us to choose pressing and I think he's on to something. Not only is solvent rediculously expensive and difficult for many of us to access but it's a pain to separate from the oil. With a press the plant material can be fresh. Think of the possibilities.

If you do it with fresh herb you won't get the same yield. I am finding it is best for terps to dry down quickly and not worry about the cure. So for rosin intended bud I just let it dry to 62 ish by jarring after initial dry like usual and then letting it burp in jars with Boveda packs. As soon as the bud stabilizes in the almost stem snap point you can press. If too wet you can shoot out some chlorophyll because of the water solubility. If you go too dry and brittle you lose some yield too. It seems a tiny bit of moisture is better because the steam can help evacuate the rosin from the bud.
Careful pressing of bud dried ASAP but 62% gets you really sappy terpy rosin. For capsules I guess you would have to decarb and mix with coconut oil? Would you have to do a low temp decarb to save the terpenes?

I am now in possession of a quart of loosely packed canna chips. Lightly cooked and actually pretty tasty. I plan on using them for canna coconut oil. I have also been rinsing out my dab rig with the same iso over and over. The reclaim from a dab rig is a yellow orange color so I think it should be useful. Maybe nighttime medicine.

 

[RheinRover]

Great looking oil Sue, just about a filter away from looking like full on Amber, not that the goal is pure amber.
Great Job, Great Teacher!

I made my second batch ever last night, and the winterization does seem to make a difference in clarity visually.

So how did that alcohol still work out for your Oil production Sue?
More hassle than the required effort considering the volume processed?

I'm interested in it's efficiency as CCO production may become a regular event if it proves to be of high efficacy for my son.

Also, I've read most things you have written the past two years or so, but I don't recall ...
Have your tried 99% Isopropyl vice Ethanol as the solvent agent in your CCO production? If so, any comments?

I have two fully decarbed CCO batches in two glass oral syringes now, one containing 2.5ml (after eating .5ml last week ... too large of a dose for a CCO Noob!), and the latest batch yielded a 5.25ml. I made this batch with a full whole plant including roots, washed and hung dried for a week (yes, washing cannabis doesn't ruin it), dried and coarsely chopped and lightly ground. The trunk is some tough ass fiber, no wonder it makes awesome ropes.

Just what you need, more questions to answer!


Look at me using another icon thingy!
Keith

If you do it with fresh herb you won't get the same yield. I am finding it is best for terps to dry down quickly and not worry about the cure. So for rosin intended bud I just let it dry to 62 ish by jarring after initial dry like usual and then letting it burp in jars with Boveda packs. As soon as the bud stabilizes in the almost stem snap point you can press. If too wet you can shoot out some chlorophyll because of the water solubility. If you go too dry and brittle you lose some yield too. It seems a tiny bit of moisture is better because the steam can help evacuate the rosin from the bud.
Careful pressing of bud dried ASAP but 62% gets you really sappy terpy rosin. For capsules I guess you would have to decarb and mix with coconut oil? Would you have to do a low temp decarb to save the terpenes?

I am now in possession of a quart of loosely packed canna chips. Lightly cooked and actually pretty tasty. I plan on using them for canna coconut oil. I have also been rinsing out my dab rig with the same iso over and over. The reclaim from a dab rig is a yellow orange color so I think it should be useful. Maybe nighttime medicine.

I've been doing the same with my dab rig as well, just haven't thought of a good use for it. I'm interested to see what you turn yours into.

 

[SweetSue]

If you do it with fresh herb you won't get the same yield. I am finding it is best for terps to dry down quickly and not worry about the cure. So for rosin intended bud I just let it dry to 62 ish by jarring after initial dry like usual and then letting it burp in jars with Boveda packs. As soon as the bud stabilizes in the almost stem snap point you can press. If too wet you can shoot out some chlorophyll because of the water solubility. If you go too dry and brittle you lose some yield too. It seems a tiny bit of moisture is better because the steam can help evacuate the rosin from the bud.
Careful pressing of bud dried ASAP but 62% gets you really sappy terpy rosin. For capsules I guess you would have to decarb and mix with coconut oil? Would you have to do a low temp decarb to save the terpenes?

I am now in possession of a quart of loosely packed canna chips. Lightly cooked and actually pretty tasty. I plan on using them for canna coconut oil. I have also been rinsing out my dab rig with the same iso over and over. The reclaim from a dab rig is a yellow orange color so I think it should be useful. Maybe nighttime medicine.

There's a method where you combine the material with the carrier oil of choice and bake it in the oven for 36 hours at the lowest setting. In my opinion, this would be the best way to retain the terpenes. The oil should hold them. Begin by capping off the jar and giving it a good shake every hour of so for the first day and then every time you think of it from that point on. It's the method I used for the pain cream.

Thank you for that insight into the science of dabbing. You're using pure concentrates but they're wearing off much more quickly than the capsules will. I'm really looking forward to your report on them

I'm all set up to make my next batch of capsules myself.

Just waiting for the mix to come back to room temperature. I set it back in this dark little cubbyhole until it's ready to go.

These capsules have changed my life for the better. After I get them made I'll know what the dosage per is. I think we're going to be surprised at how low a dose it is, considering how consistently high they keep me.

 

[ShiggityFlip]

I would also take some time to get used to pressing small amounts of rosin at first before going big. That way we can see early issues and adjust them to make it easy as possible. Then proceed to larger batches.

 

[SweetSue]

Thank you for that share RheinRover. I'd forgotten to answer about the ISO. When I questioned our avoidance of this solvent choice it caused a firestorm of protestations that sent me to a friend who's a microbiologist. My concern at the time was my inability to procure a higher proof than the Everclear 151. He explained to me the reasons to avoid ISO - basically that it's not produced for human consumption so there's not the quality control needed to make it safe - and the fact that he'd run oil production using many types of solvent and assured me that 151 would give me results not that far off from the higher proof.

While I was doing my oil run yesterday I was thinking that this was the way I need to do the reduction from this point on. The distiller does the same job the rice cooker does, with reclaimation of the solvent being the greatest advantage. Tim worked out this reduction part beautifully. It's time for me to follow his example.

I believe it was a washer he set in the pot under the measuring cup? Did you use a laser thermometer to check the heat levels?

Last question, how much oil did you get from this batch? Doesn't it make you want to do another right away?

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Thank you for that share RheinRover. I'd forgotten to answer about the ISO. When I questioned our avoidance of this solvent choice it caused a firestorm of protestations that sent me to a friend who's a microbiologist. My concern at the time was my inability to procure a higher proof than the Everclear 151. He explained to me the reasons to avoid ISO - basically that it's not produced for human consumption so there's not the quality control needed to make it safe - and the fact that he'd run oil production using many types of solvent and assured me that 151 would give me results not that far off from the higher proof.



While I was doing my oil run yesterday I was thinking that this was the way I need to do the reduction from this point on. The distiller does the same job the rice cooker does, with reclaimation of the solvent being the greatest advantage. Tim worked out this reduction part beautifully. It's time for me to follow his example.

I believe it was a washer he set in the pot under the measuring cup? Did you use a laser thermometer to check the heat levels?

Last question, how much oil did you get from this batch? Doesn't it make you want to do another right away?

Ok so next time I will switch the isopropanol for 190 ethanol for the reclaim from the dab rig. Makes sense. I have a health food store nearby and could get some capsules there. I also have some old herb to give a try with your current recipe.

 

[RheinRover]

Thank you for that share RheinRover. I'd forgotten to answer about the ISO. When I questioned our avoidance of this solvent choice it caused a firestorm of protestations that sent me to a friend who's a microbiologist. My concern at the time was my inability to procure a higher proof than the Everclear 151. He explained to me the reasons to avoid ISO - basically that it's not produced for human consumption so there's not the quality control needed to make it safe - and the fact that he'd run oil production using many types of solvent and assured me that 151 would give me results not that far off from the higher proof.



While I was doing my oil run yesterday I was thinking that this was the way I need to do the reduction from this point on. The distiller does the same job the rice cooker does, with reclaimation of the solvent being the greatest advantage. Tim worked out this reduction part beautifully. It's time for me to follow his example.

I believe it was a washer he set in the pot under the measuring cup? Did you use a laser thermometer to check the heat levels?

Last question, how much oil did you get from this batch? Doesn't it make you want to do another right away?

You're right Sue he did use a washer, I just didn't have one large enough around the house so I used a car wash token, it worked just as well. I did use a laser thermometer I was able to keep the oil around 200F and that kept the wash at right around 160F the whole time. I did crank it up just a bit towards the end but never went past 250F. I liked using the measuring cup it was much easier to reduce waste. I also used a small dropper filled with everclear to direct any stay oil back to the group.
I started with 63g and got 10 grams of oil. Not to shabby I think. I have another batch in the freezer that I will be finishing up tonight. Started with 1 oz, interested to see the pull from this.

 

[SweetSue]

I have to say guys, when I came up with the idea for this study hall it was in hopes that this kind is curious research and activity would begin to flourish. It's beyond satisfying to have inspired so many of you to join in. It's all a numbers game, and every one of us who tries and succeeds with capsules spreads those numbers further beyond ourselves when we get all excited and start looking for people we can help by simply spreading the knowledge.

I little report on the effectiveness of CBD as a pain med. I believe I'm about five days into this ear infection. I'm far enough along that the swelling has started to recede. Still no pain to speak of and no fever signs. Just fatigue, which I've been listening to, although my manic hours don't speak to that awareness, do they? Trust me, I'm taking it easy this week and letting the body heal. It's been surprising to go through this with no pain at all.

I haven't had breakfast yet. Hahaha! Living alone has its own particular challenges. Lol! Back in a bit.