SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

panacea said:
Also Sue, going to the grocery store and going to grab a few bundles of lemongrass. I plan on extracting the oil from the lemongrass to see if it will be feasible and safer then the essential oils. Not sure if i will yield much oil this way or not?..I figure i will mixed the lemongrass oil with the CCO at a 4-1 cco to lemongrass. Will then get some willing participants to try this in normal cco ingesting and edibles. May even try adding a bit to my "bio-bombs". I will post what i come up with. May be a little while since i have to go back to Fort Mac to finsh the "Shutdown". should know in a month.
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Thank you panacea. I'll be very interested in your results.
 
panacea said:
Hey JB, If you are looking for a good sleep try converting your cannabis to CBN. I would use a "heavy" indica and leave it on a plate exposed to air and light for a week or so or until you see it turn a little brownish or dull looking. You then can make oil from it that will be more sedative. I prefer this method over trying to decarb your oil longer & at higher temps( no risk of burning).
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I never thought of this, but I agree, this is a more natural way to get the conversion. You get reps for that one panacea. A quick hug too. :laughtwo:

:hugs: :Love:
 
I wanted to share this conversation with you all and get some feedback. I believe I answered this question correctly. If someone with more experience can counter anything I've said or offer any more insight, please jump in and join this discussion. This is one of the most important things to get a handle on here and it's coming clearer the longer I study, but I'm by no means an expert.

SweetSue said:
Good morning Chewey,

You're falling into the trap of assuming the sensation of being high is indicitative of the level of medication in the system. Remember, euphoria is no determinant of dosage efficacy. When you incorporate the lecithin and carrier oil they cause absorbtion to occur into the lymphatic system and there wouldn't be the same level of metabolization going on compared to something you ingested through the gut without the bio bomb adaptation, which goes straight through the liver and into the blood stream. Your chocolates get you higher, but not necessarily more medicated, do you understand the distinction?

Having said that though, when I do my smoothies and my brownies with this same adaptation I get completely wasted, but my cannabinoid dose in both of those concoctions is swinging close to 200 mg per dose, almost four times your capsules. It may be as simple an explaination as what I presented above, in that the capsule is more efficiently absorbed. The thrust of bioavailability is to avoid the first-pass through the liver so more cannabinoids are passed into the system unmolested and can be useful in maintaining homeostasis.

You realize Chewey, that even the experts don't know yet if we're spitting in the wind here. Most of what we postulate is unproven from a lab perspective. If our president grows some and finally takes cannabis off Schedule One the new research data that will begin to pour forth will include studies done on human animals and we'll finally gain deeper understanding into what we're doing.

Did my explaination make any sense to you?

Chewey said:
Hi Sue,

I just wanted to tell you about my first Bio Bomb experience.

First of all. I'm not a heavy cannabis user. I like to feel just right, not too stoned. I consume most of my cannabis through chocolate. As i'm a non smoker of tobacco, when i smoke a pure weed blunt, i only manage around 1/3 at a time.

When i make chocolate, i mix 28 grams, with 400 grams of chocolate. Each single piece of choccy weighs around 3.5 grams. That amount, doesn't get me wasted, but it's a nice buzz for me. So each dose is around 0.25 grams of cannabis. Then i'll smoke a little, and i'm set for the evening.

Last night i took a Bio Bomb capsule. With our recipe, each capsule will contain around 62mg of CO with a Bio rate of around 55mg, right?

I know, if i squeezed out 100mg of straight CO and ingested it, i would very stoned. Doing this would give me a Bio rate of 20mg, is that right?

So i can't understand why taking this Bio Bomb capsule last night, i was left very disappointed with the effects as considering the amount i eat through chocolate, seems to get me more stoned?

The flowers were decarbed for 1 hr @115c and the recipe as you know was..

1g CO
5g flax
10g liquid lecithin
24hr in the fridge.
I never used any alcohol to mix it as i didn't think it was needed.

So, i'm i talking complete rubbish or have i missed something?
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SweetSue said:
I wanted to share this conversation with you all and get some feedback. I believe I answered this question correctly. If someone with more experience can counter anything I've said or offer any more insight, please jump in and join this discussion. This is one of the most important things to get a handle on here and it's coming clearer the longer I study, but I'm by no means an expert.
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Sue my dear, you do a GREAT job of putting complicated ideas into easy to understand paragraphs!! :thanks: +reps. :circle-of-love::peace:
 
What about a longer cure for the herbs?

I believe the common time is 2 weeks, yes?

Would it not be more effective to give the herb at least a month cure? Wouldn't that make it more potent?

I know from my own experience that if I smoke herbs that are not cured as long, the high isn't the same.

Could CCO be effected similarly? Has anyone gives an month or two cure before making CCO?

:Love:Just a thought:Love:
 
Pigeons420 said:
What about a longer cure for the herbs?

I believe the common time is 2 weeks, yes?

Would it not be more effective to give the herb at least a month cure? Wouldn't that make it more potent?

I know from my own experience that if I smoke herbs that are not cured as long, the high isn't the same.

Could CCO be effected similarly? Has anyone gives an month or two cure before making CCO?

:Love:Just a thought:Love:
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I think you run into a catch 22. The longer the cure, the more the terpines degrade. I try to make my oil when it is dry, but not necessarily cured as long as I would for herb that I am smoking.:peace:
 
Pigeons420 said:
I see, and the terpenes are integral for CCO?
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The terpenes are as important, if not more so, than the cannabinoids. So much so that I'm convinced that we need to concentrate on developing methods to either preserve the terpenes or replace them before we administer the meds. Every effect you get from your cannabis is attributed to the synergistic effects of the terpenes and flavinoids. It's myrcene that is most instrumental in getting the cannabinoids across the blood/brain barrier. It's a monoterpene, one of those that will degrade by more than 30% within the first week and 50-60% in the first month. When we decarb prior to processing we destroy the terpenes. Neikodog proved that for us with his test results.

This is unacceptable to me. I've learned in passing somewhere that if you decarb the oil after purging the solvent you preserve more of the terpenes. I remember noting that in my brain, but I didn't capture the source, and I've lost it in the flurry of tabs I end up with. :straightface: I'm gonna learn to be better at that one of these days.

I'm assuming that the inclusion of essential oil drops into the processed CCO is to replace or beef up the terpene and flavinoid presence. Can someone verify that for me? If this is the case, my next thought was, do we need to be more attentive to the ratios originally occurring in the buds, in hopes of coming somewhere in the neighborhood of those ratios? This assumes you had your buds tested, something unavailable to many of us.

This is why I'm so taken by PsyCro's olive oil extraction. It feels like a perfect fit to incorporate with traditional CCO. I feel instinctively that this is the direction we should be heading, and I believe that's what panacea's playing around with now. My goal here is to find ways to explain what this medication does to benefit you, to demonstrate safe and effective ways to process plant material into CCO and to find ways to make the best damn oil you can in the comfort of your kitchen.

I'm so thankful that the business world is waking up to the possibilities. This speaks well to the future of innovative meds, but take note, those innovations are going to be most available to those with deeper pockets than most of us have. There's no reason, in my mind, that we shouldn't be able to teach members to create a quality of oil for their treatments that will rival anything they'd get in a dispensary, with the advantage of being hand-picked in strain and processing to meet individual needs, and for way less money.

This attitude of letting others control your healthcare hasn't worked well for us in a world where the highest death rate is attributable to prescription drug complications. Maybe it's time for a paradigm shift.
 
SweetSue said:
I wanted to share this conversation with you all and get some feedback. I believe I answered this question correctly. If someone with more experience can counter anything I've said or offer any more insight, please jump in and join this discussion. This is one of the most important things to get a handle on here and it's coming clearer the longer I study, but I'm by no means an expert.
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A 1:5 ratio (cco:flax) with +/- 1 tablespoon of lecithin still pots me in orbit if I'm not careful.

Something in his processing, the herb, the oil?

A complete beginner's dose is usually 1:20!
A ratio of 1:5 is for fairly experienced patients.

I have a bin of 1:5 capsules that even my dabbing buddies get blasted on.

This is what sucks about not being face to face. Very confusing.
 
cajuncelt said:
A 1:5 ratio (cco:flax) with +/- 1 tablespoon of lecithin still pots me in orbit if I'm not careful.

Something in his processing, the herb, the oil?

A complete beginner's dose is usually 1:20!
A ratio of 1:5 is for fairly experienced patients.

I have a bin of 1:5 capsules that even my dabbing buddies get blasted on.

This is what sucks about not being face to face. Very confusing.
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What in the processing could have diminished the psychoactive effects? I'm totally new to this and I'm drawing a blank. I'm pretty sure he used the exact same process I did. I'm gonna have to make some capsules and try myself. I'm finding I have an incredible tolerance, but if they hit you Cajun, they should hit me the same way.

Maybe I need to reset my system and start again. Awk! That initial time out keeps me from doing that. Suck it up girl! I guess I could do that next week. I have plans for the weekend that included indulging to excess. :battingeyelashes:


Chewey, I'm assuming a high THC strain? Just being sure of the ratios.
 
SweetSue said:
The terpenes are as important, if not more so, than the cannabinoids. So much so that I'm convinced that we need to concentrate on developing methods to either preserve the terpenes or replace them before we administer the meds. Every effect you get from your cannabis is attributed to the synergistic effects of the terpenes and flavinoids. It's myrcene that is most instrumental in getting the cannabinoids across the blood/brain barrier. It's a monoterpene, one of those that will degrade by more than 30% within the first week and 50-60% in the first month. When we decarb prior to processing we destroy the terpenes. Neikodog proved that for us with his test results.

This is unacceptable to me. I've learned in passing somewhere that if you decarb the oil after purging the solvent you preserve more of the terpenes. I remember noting that in my brain, but I didn't capture the source, and I've lost it in the flurry of tabs I end up with. :straightface: I'm gonna learn to be better at that one of these days.

I'm assuming that the inclusion of essential oil drops into the processed CCO is to replace or beef up the terpene and flavinoid presence. Can someone verify that for me? If this is the case, my next thought was, do we need to be more attentive to the ratios originally occurring in the buds, in hopes of coming somewhere in the neighborhood of those ratios? This assumes you had your buds tested, something unavailable to many of us.

This is why I'm so taken by PsyCro's olive oil extraction. It feels like a perfect fit to incorporate with traditional CCO. I feel instinctively that this is the direction we should be heading, and I believe that's what panacea's playing around with now. My goal here is to find ways to explain what this medication does to benefit you, to demonstrate safe and effective ways to process plant material into CCO and to find ways to make the best damn oil you can in the comfort of your kitchen.

I'm so thankful that the business world is waking up to the possibilities. This speaks well to the future of innovative meds, but take note, those innovations are going to be most available to those with deeper pockets than most of us have. There's no reason, in my mind, that we shouldn't be able to teach members to create a quality of oil for their treatments that will rival anything they'd get in a dispensary, with the advantage of being hand-picked in strain and processing to meet individual needs, and for way less money.

This attitude of letting others control your healthcare hasn't worked well for us in a world where the highest death rate is attributable to prescription drug complications. Maybe it's time for a paradigm shift.
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I believe the terpenes are so important that I got some to to put in my finished oils. I am going to talk to the guy that produces them to get some info on how they determine what to put in their various mixes.
 
Mighty Mouse said:
I believe the terpenes are so important that I got some to to put in my finished oils. I am going to talk to the guy that produces them to get some info on how they determine what to put in their various mixes.
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Thank you Mighty Mouse. This is becoming more important the deeper I look.
 
I told you guys & take my word for it if nothing else....
Terpenoids & terpenes are the key.
They determine SO many things.
Right now in the industry terpene testing is in its infancy.
When we master them, we'll be able to treat specific diseases in specific people.
Until then, the knowledge currently out there is what we have.
The good news is that the info known every 6 months is pretty amazing.
Good on ya.
 
cajuncelt said:
I told you guys & take my word for it if nothing else....
Terpenoids & terpenes are the key.
They determine SO many things.
Right now in the industry terpene testing is in its infancy.
When we master them, we'll be able to treat specific diseases in specific people.
Until then, the knowledge currently out there is what we have.
The good news is that the info known every 6 months is pretty amazing.
Good on ya.
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I agree 100% that they are the key. I cannot wait for more research to come out.
 
Mighty Mouse said:
From what I have researched, a lot of terpenes get cooked out when making oil. I think it is critical for healing to put back in as many as we can. In my mind terpenes are as important as THC and CBD.

Taming THC: potential cannabis synergy and phytocannabinoid-terpenoid entourage effects
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I agree for the most part.
The terpenes are facilitators. Not as critical as cannabinoids, but equally important.
The cannabinoids are the motor/tranny...
The terpenes/terpenoids are the steering wheel.

The car still can run down a road, but it would be nice to steer when the curves come at us huh?

I'm very satisfied with the thread, the subjects, the intelligence, the lack of "cult" members, & the members. Sue is the creator, but you all are the authors.

Great job.

If y'all are out there researching, don't lose site of terpenes & the resulting studies.
I'll drop anything I find as well.
 
cajuncelt said:
I agree for the most part.
The terpenes are facilitators. Not as critical as cannabinoids, but equally important.
The cannabinoids are the motor/tranny...
The terpenes/terpenoids are the steering wheel.

The car still can run down a road, but it would be nice to steer when the curves come at us huh?

I'm very satisfied with the thread, the subjects, the intelligence, the lack of "cult" members, & the members. Sue is the creator, but you all are the authors.

Great job.

If y'all are out there researching, don't lose site of terpenes & the resulting studies.
I'll drop anything I find as well.
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Thanks Cajun!!! It is nice to have you hanging around (in all your spare time :rofl:) and adding your little points of wisdom!!! :circle-of-love::peace:
 
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