SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

What are the pathways into the system and how effective are they?

This is from a white paper at Green House Labs.

So what happens in your body when you take cannabis or cannabinoids?

This primarily depends on which cannabinoids were taken and how they were taken/the route of administration.

Route of administration

Cannabis or cannabinoids are often smoked but can also be ingested (oil, cake, tea etc.), injected or absorbed through the skin (patch) or mucous membranes (tongue, cheek, rectum). The chosen route of administration has a major impact on the actual effect.

For instance, smoking inevitably heats up cannabinoids causing decarboxylation and a shift from acidic to neutral compounds, which tend to be more biologically active. In addition, the incineration process will render part of the cannabinoids biologically inactive.

However, inhaled cannabinoids enter the bloodstream through the lungs and therefore reach the rest of the body before it passes the liver. This first-pass liver effect can seriously reduce the amount of available cannabinoids. Similarly, ingesting cannabinoids can reduce the amount of available cannabinoids through degradation in the gut/digestive tract.

Heat, chemical degradation or biological degradation/metabolism can dramatically change the amount of cannabinoids that is biologically active: bioavailability. Injected substances are considered 100% bioavailable. Any reduction is ascribed to the route of administration.

Smoked, or inhaled cannabinoids have reported bioavailabilities ranging from 2-56%(Huestis, 2007) with an average of about 30% (McGilveray, 2005). This variability is mainly due to differences in smoking dynamics (how deeply does one inhale, how long does one hold it in). Compared to oral application, the effects of smoking cannabinoids are relatively fast in on- and offset.

Cannabinoids that are absorbed through the mucous membranes in the mouth (buccomucosal application) have bioavailabilities of around 13% (Karschner et al., 2011). Application via the mucous membranes of tongue and cheek or rectal application bypasses degradation in the gut and improves bioavailability.


Slide1-white.jpg

Distribution

Cannabinoids (and their metabolites/breakdown products) are very lipophilic and are preferentially distributed to fatty tissues such as brain, spleen and body fat rather than aquaeous/water-rich tissues such as blood.

Distribution of THC (other cannabinoids will have similar but not identical distributions based on their respective biochemical properties):

About 1% of biologically available THC reaches the brain.

THC (and metabolites) accumulates in testicular/epididymal fat where it may affect sperm production.

THC crosses the placenta far more efficiently than its metabolites. From 15% (late pregnancy) to 30% (early pregnancy) of maternal plasma THC can be detected in fetal plasma.

THC also accumulates in breast milk (levels 8.4 times higher than plasma). About 10% of maternally consumed THC can be passed on to breast milk.

THC levels peak around 10 minutes after onset of smoking and rapidly go down to ~ 60% of peak after 15 minutes, 20% of peak after 30 minutes and 3% of peak after 2 hours.

THC is degraded to 11-OH-THC, which is also psychoactive, and subsequently to THC-COOH which is not psychoactive. THC-COOH is relatively stabile and can remain detectable for weeks (and is therefore used for drug screening). Most cannabinoid metabolites are excreted with urine (~1/3) or feces (~2/3).

The image below shows the distribution of CB1 receptor ligand 18F-FMPEP after injection into the blood circulation (this distribution can be expected to be similar but not identical to that of THC).

CB1_ligand_distribution.jpg

Development

CB1 can be detected in human tissues throughout development (Mato et al., 2003). Comparison of CB1 distribution in the human brain at difference developmental stages shows:
-CB1 expression is relatively low in fetuses, intermediate in children and high in adults.
-CB1 expression in adults is particularly high in hippocampus and basal ganglia.
-CB1 expression in fetuses is particularly high in capsula interna, pyramidal tract and brachium conjunctivum (while not detectable in children and adults) suggesting a transient surge of CB1 in developing neuronal fiber tracts and thus a role in brain development.

Example by numbers

Now let's breakdown what happens when you smoke a cannabis cigarette (adapted from (McGilveray, 2005)).

A cigarette containing 35 mg THC produces peak THC levels of 162 ng/ml plasma 10 minutes after onset of smoking.

An average human has approximately 5l of blood meaning that 162 x 5000 = 810 μg of THC is bioavailable at peak levels, corresponding to bioavailability of 0.81/35 = 2.4% at peak levels.

Peak THC levels are 162 ng/ml. The molecular weight of THC is 314g/mol. 314 ng of THC in 1 ml of plasma corresponds to a 1 μM THC concentration. Therefore, our measured concentration of 162 ng/ml corresponds to 520 nM THC at peak. After 30 minutes, ~20% or ~100 nM is still bioavailable. After 2 hours, ~3% or 15 nM of THC is still bioavailable.

With relative affinities for THC of 10 nM and 24 nM for CB1 and CB2 receptors it can be assumed that most biological activity of THC will have disappeared within 2 hours after smoking a cannabis cigarette (An affinity of 10 nM means that at this concentration 50% of receptors are bound/activated by THC).

Literature
Huestis, M.A. (2007). Human Cannabinoid Pharmacokinetics. Chem. Biodivers. 4, 1770—1804.
Karschner, E.L., Darwin, W.D., Goodwin, R.S., Wright, S., and Huestis, M.A. (2011). Plasma cannabinoid pharmacokinetics following controlled oral delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol and oromucosal cannabis extract administration. Clin. Chem. 57, 66—75.
Mato, S., Del Olmo, E., and Pazos, A. (2003). Ontogenetic development of cannabinoid receptor expression and signal transduction functionality in the human brain. Eur. J. Neurosci. 17, 1747—1754.
McGilveray, I.J. (2005). Pharmacokinetics of cannabinoids. Pain Res. Manag. J. Can. Pain Soc. J. Société Can. Pour Trait. Douleur 10 Suppl A, 15A — 22A.

Full article: Cannabinoids in Your Body
Author: Uncredited
Visuals: Uncredited
Website: GHMedical
I'm a bit late (as usual) ..great info! Thank you Sweet Sue. I'm just beginning to read this thread and I will have to reread and study a few words because this is deep and above my knowledge on this side of the cannabis scene. But excited to dig in and learn what I can.
Thanks again!
 
I'm a bit late (as usual) ..great info! Thank you Sweet Sue. I'm just beginning to read this thread and I will have to reread and study a few words because this is deep and above my knowledge on this side of the cannabis scene. But excited to dig in and learn what I can.
Thanks again!

:welcome: to cannabis brainstorming central Regi. Glad to have you along. Please don't think you have to read all of that to get to here. This isn't like your normal thread at all. We play a lot here and the posts show it. :laughtwo: The levity helps break the frustration of prohibition.

If there's anything specific we can help you with, don't hesitate to ask. No one here will say "read the thread." Lol!
 
Loading a wet mix of toasted flo9wer edible oil and LSL. Is a PITA. I can do it if I must but easier ways to use the mixture.

My mix is in fridge now I'll try the wet cap loading tomorrow then put them back in the fridge. I'll let y'all know how it goes. For now I have some cleanup to do and a hockey game to listen to.

Go Sens Go
 
Loading a wet mix of toasted flo9wer edible oil and LSL. Is a PITA. I can do it if I must but easier ways to use the mixture.

I can certainly appreciate that Oldbear. There are specialized little tools for that chore that I'm fairly certain aren't lying around in your den. :battingeyelashes:
 
Sue,

Just a thought, when you go to jar the cold dried herb, would it be better to seal it while it is still cold rather than waiting for it to get to room temperature?

The Ghost Train has been drying in the frig for 11 days now in half gallon jars with the stems on. Yesterday I dropped a hydrometer in one of the jars. It is staying at 83-85% and they will need a lot more drying. OTOH I had a few of the smaller buds and branches in a quart jar that were dry in 8 days. The RH is staying around 21% in the frig.

I think I will move a few choice buds to a quart jar so I will have some dry flowers to have tested on Tuesday of next week while I am in Albuquerque.

I was also up North a few days ago visiting a friend. His sister and her husband were visiting from Memphis and they had not had good smoke for a long time. So, we broke out our best and bought some shatter and BHO. Before the concentrates and after a few hours of doing bowels and testing one gram bags of assorted store bought flowers, I broke out Ghost 1 and 2. They said they could tell a lot of difference between the two. I just left it at that.

The BHO was nicer than the shatter.

OK, this is interesting. Cannabinoids are lipophilic and aren't supposed to be able to bond to water molecules, so it must be the lecithin emulsifying. I never thought to try this. I can't wait to read your update on this.

See? This is what I love about brainstorming and experimentation. :cheesygrinsmiley:


Now we have to estabilish LSL to H2O ratios, time, tempiture, frig time, very confusing, I sure hope it works.

I never know
 
Another hour gone by and the high persists at this delicious level. Problem is, I keep forgetting what I'm doing. :rofl:
 
:welcome: to cannabis brainstorming central Regi. Glad to have you along. Please don't think you have to read all of that to get to here. This isn't like your normal thread at all. We play a lot here and the posts show it. :laughtwo: The levity helps break the frustration of prohibition.

If there's anything specific we can help you with, don't hesitate to ask. No one here will say "read the thread." Lol!
So glad to be here and finally meet you. Your very popular! And I see why..you are very interesting and smart.

This is a little different than the average "how to grow" thread but it's very good info. I want to read all of it and will with time.

Gosh, I thought growing was all I needed to learn about. Boy was I wrong! A little bit of physics, biology, math and so much more then a seed and some dirt. Little did I know growing was gonna spark an interest in politics..I'm loving it and my new friends on 420.

Really glad to be here. You guys are awesome!
 
Hi Canyon I put a write up on my water based extraction in my Journal. Link in signature.

My next test run I'll toast the buds and leave everything else the same - maybe. If others have an idea of other variables to change I'm all ears :)




Sue,

Just a thought, when you go to jar the cold dried herb, would it be better to seal it while it is still cold rather than waiting for it to get to room temperature?

The Ghost Train has been drying in the frig for 11 days now in half gallon jars with the stems on. Yesterday I dropped a hydrometer in one of the jars. It is staying at 83-85% and they will need a lot more drying. OTOH I had a few of the smaller buds and branches in a quart jar that were dry in 8 days. The RH is staying around 21% in the frig.

I think I will move a few choice buds to a quart jar so I will have some dry flowers to have tested on Tuesday of next week while I am in Albuquerque.

I was also up North a few days ago visiting a friend. His sister and her husband were visiting from Memphis and they had not had good smoke for a long time. So, we broke out our best and bought some shatter and BHO. Before the concentrates and after a few hours of doing bowels and testing one gram bags of assorted store bought flowers, I broke out Ghost 1 and 2. They said they could tell a lot of difference between the two. I just left it at that.

The BHO was nicer than the shatter.




Now we have to estabilish LSL to H2O ratios, time, tempiture, frig time, very confusing, I sure hope it works.

I never know
 
Hi all.
Dropping in to say hello. This 420 & me don't dig each other.
Hope to get caught up someday, lol

Well hello mon ami. :hugs: :kisstwo: Long time no see, you busy, busy man. Thanks for stopping and letting us know you're still with us. Get some playtime in already. :laughtwo:
 
Sue,

Just a thought, when you go to jar the cold dried herb, would it be better to seal it while it is still cold rather than waiting for it to get to room temperature?

The Ghost Train has been drying in the frig for 11 days now in half gallon jars with the stems on. Yesterday I dropped a hydrometer in one of the jars. It is staying at 83-85% and they will need a lot more drying. OTOH I had a few of the smaller buds and branches in a quart jar that were dry in 8 days. The RH is staying around 21% in the frig.

I think I will move a few choice buds to a quart jar so I will have some dry flowers to have tested on Tuesday of next week while I am in Albuquerque.

I was also up North a few days ago visiting a friend. His sister and her husband were visiting from Memphis and they had not had good smoke for a long time. So, we broke out our best and bought some shatter and BHO. Before the concentrates and after a few hours of doing bowels and testing one gram bags of assorted store bought flowers, I broke out Ghost 1 and 2. They said they could tell a lot of difference between the two. I just left it at that.

The BHO was nicer than the shatter.




Now we have to estabilish LSL to H2O ratios, time, tempiture, frig time, very confusing, I sure hope it works.

I never know

It's not as confusing as it appears Canyon, just one step at a time. :cheesygrinsmiley:

I've learned from my last low and slow drying that it works best, from the perspective of timeliness if the buds are cut down to smaller pieces, more like individual flowers, the way Doc Bud does his, as a matter of fact, or at least that's the way the buds we got in Jamaica were. The ones that dried the fastest were the smallest pieces, of course.

This is how I cut mine down.

IMG_652411.JPG


This was my largest bud.

IMG_65229.JPG


Cut them down to size and they dry faster. I need to get some decent hygrometers if I intend to continue doing this, and I do plan to keep after this process.
 
Fresh-harvest oil update:

This is day 5 of paying closer attention to the effects of the fresh harvest oil capsules, and once again I'm so high I'm surprised. I keep thinking this is so improbable that I must be imagining it, but my entire body is trembling this morning. It appears to grow slightly more powerful with each new day. What would explain that?

I take the capsule, and then every time I have something to eat it shoots me right back up over the top. They're carrying me strongly for over 7 hours, on average, still so high that I don't touch the brownies. :laughtwo: This experience is the most enjoyable euphoric ride I've had to date. It never really wears off before the next dose, and it's a sweet rolling buzz, unlike any I've ever experienced. I know it's time for the next dose when I start yawning, although I'm not all that tired. Absolutely intriguing. :battingeyelashes:
 
Fresh-harvest oil update:

This is day 5 of paying closer attention to the effects of the fresh harvest oil capsules, and once again I'm so high I'm surprised. I keep thinking this is so improbable that I must be imagining it, but my entire body is trembling this morning. It appears to grow slightly more powerful with each new day. What would explain that?

I take the capsule, and then every time I have something to eat it shoots me right back up over the top. They're carrying me strongly for over 7 hours, on average, still so high that I don't touch the brownies. :laughtwo: This experience is the most enjoyable euphoric ride I've had to date. It never really wears off before the next dose, and it's a sweet rolling buzz, unlike any I've ever experienced. I know it's time for the next dose when I start yawning, although I'm not all that tired. Absolutely intriguing. :battingeyelashes:

Good stuff and enjoy the ride Sue!:surf:

I know it's still early days but can I ask you to compare your experience with the fresh harvest vs cured flower using the same method? I won't be able to get fresh flower this time around but hopefully next time. I'm wondering if you had similar affects with the dried bud ?

I'm seeking that euphoria Sue as long as I'm able to function in a work environment I will be o.k. I read that you build a tolerance with the oil but it still helps with symptoms even after the euphoria fades. I guess there's only one way to find out. Thanks for your earlier reply I am still working on that CBD (cannatonic sold out real quick( and am wondering how many grams I should use for CBD flower vs THC flower (right now I have about two OZs of THC flower) and of course it will depend on the amount of CBD in the actual flower. That 28% CBD strain would have been perfect. . .

Lowest setting on oven can vary is there a safe temperature that you know of 220 F for example?
 
Good stuff and enjoy the ride Sue!:surf:

I know it's still early days but can I ask you to compare your experience with the fresh harvest vs cured flower using the same method? I won't be able to get fresh flower this time around but hopefully next time. I'm wondering if you had similar affects with the dried bud ?

I'm seeking that euphoria Sue as long as I'm able to function in a work environment I will be o.k. I read that you build a tolerance with the oil but it still helps with symptoms even after the euphoria fades. I guess there's only one way to find out. Thanks for your earlier reply I am still working on that CBD (cannatonic sold out real quick( and am wondering how many grams I should use for CBD flower vs THC flower (right now I have about two OZs of THC flower) and of course it will depend on the amount of CBD in the actual flower. That 28% CBD strain would have been perfect. . .

Lowest setting on oven can vary is there a safe temperature that you know of 220 F for example?

I've been making infused oil with this strain for many months, coming up on a year now, and all previous oils were made with the ratio of 100 grams dry to 500 ml of olive oil. Done with dried flowers this oil doesn't give me a euphoric effect beyond a sense of wellbeing, which is what you'd expect from a CBD dominant.

Made with fresh flowers it's an entirely new ballgame. It's 5:30 PM and that means I've been flying now for 7 and a half hours with no end in sight on my morning dose of one capsule. I'm really high, but also functional, as today's posting history would demonstrate. I gave it some thought earlier and I believe I'm higher on these capsules than I was I was on my 5:1 BioBombs. Last night I couldn't take the third capsule in my regimen until I went to bed at 2 AM. I was simply too high to risk another dose. Five days in and I'm still trying to figure out how to dose this properly. I haven't made any changes because I'm enjoying this unique rolling euphoria that keeps lifting me, like waves on the ocean. Never felt this type of euphoria before.

It's not like I'm a novice to cannabis. I have a legendary reputation for my tolerance level. This is a new experience for me, and a delightful one at that.

Oh! I just felt the first signs that the dose is beginning to wane. That's early signs that I'm beginning to recognize. I still won't be able to take a dose for another hour or so, because I'm still too high. :cheesygrinsmiley: gosh, I'm having fun with this. :laughtwo:

When you get your strains it's a matter of working the math. So much THC in each and so much CBD. You're looking to get the ratios as close to balanced as you can, without stressing over it. Once you know what you have to work with we can help you reason it out, if need be.

The lowest temp in my oven is 170 F. The directions on that oil were simply to go with the lowest setting. Oldbear's 210 F in the toaster oven would work as well, but you might want to take it out closer to 24 hours than 36 hours. I no longer stress so much about the conversion rates because I now understand that there's tremendous benefit to the acid cannabinoids too, so it doesn't bother me to have more THCa or more CBDa in the plant material I'm using.

In a cancer case, we'd be doing everything possible to get the maximum THC expression.
 
So sue..tomorrow I'm taking down my uncles CBDREAM and doing a fresh oil production!!
Now my question are..
My uncle needs it for pain relief and a solid sleep he wakes arpund every 2 hours and tosses till sleeps again,what amount in capsules do you think I should use?
He is on strong pharma meds, so this is also for weaning off of those to solid cannabis over time.
I've read as little as 1ml of cco can intensify his prescription.
I do not want him to have way too much and be turned off but also want him to see and feel the benefits.
 
So sue..tomorrow I'm taking down my uncles CBDREAM and doing a fresh oil production!!
Now my question are..
My uncle needs it for pain relief and a solid sleep he wakes arpund every 2 hours and tosses till sleeps again,what amount in capsules do you think I should use?
He is on strong pharma meds, so this is also for weaning off of those to solid cannabis over time.
I've read as little as 1ml of cco can intensify his prescription.
I do not want him to have way too much and be turned off but also want him to see and feel the benefits.

Given my experience this past week I'd say start him out on small dose. I'll be ordering size 0 capsules next week to shift to a half dose, and I suspect that would be the best dose for a sense of wellbeing. If you start with 00 capsules I suggest you fill them halfway. I'm shocked at how potent these are.

If he's open to using them as suppositories, and I would highly recommend that, go with one full capsule for three to four doses a day. If this euphoria is any indication of medicinal value we're in for a real treat. I'm a fan of continuous cannabinoid presence and that means three to four doses a day. With this oil it'll probably be three. :cheesygrinsmiley:

As an alternative use it the way PsyCro does and just take a small dose and swish it in the mouth before swallowing. You'd have to use a drop or two like that. I'd think loading capsules halfway would work better. The capsules are only 1ml.

To be honest NewB, this is so potent at 5% THC that I recommend you try it yourself first to get a sense of effect. I'm still reeling from the unexpected potency. This is brand new territory for us and PsyCro hasn't checked in for months. We'll need more experimentation by others so we can feel our way through this.

I'm incredibly high but I'm fully functional. I'm out to dinner right now, after walking a half mile to the restaurant. I'm engaged with the staff and feeding myself from the salad bar. I'll be interested in seeing what others experience with their strains.
 
Back
Top Bottom