Sqwheels' 2nd Grow - White Widow - Soil-Less Mix 2011

[420fied]

Hi OG,

I'm still in early planning, I haven't decided which way to go yet, I'm gonna get some seeds, somewhere, and grow a couple of them to mothers, then clone 10 plants, or start 10 seeds. I know I can't count on all 10 seeds being female so I like the clone idea better, but I don't own a cloner.

Thanks for the lighting info, that's pretty much my thoughts on it, I'm trying to decide how many CFL's I can get in there. The MH I have I've used for 2 grows now and I've read they lose effectiveness after a # of hours...but it's a cool light, I can leave it just 2-3" above the plants and they won't burn, and it's suppose to give the proper spectrum for veg and flower. I think a HPS would be much hotter, that's way I was going to do CFL's. And I have to think about the amps available in there too.

I know there is a difference between watts and lumens, and I thought lumens were more important.

OMM, if you read this could you tell me the different CFL's you're using and how many lumens each produces...thanks so much.

Wow, so much to consider, I need to do more research...

Ok, this was my thought on the feeding thing...tubs are 14Lx10Wx6D. As I type this I'm wondering if these tubs will hold enough liquid to sufficiently feed 5 plants.

If I mix my nutrients and aerate in these tubs and then set the bottles down inside, they will flood from the bottom up, the rock I'll use will keep it from floating and the top of the perl/verm mix won't get wet enough to grow algae, does that sound logical?

Anyway, with plants that only grow 18-24" and have a footprint of 1 sq ft really sounds like the grow for me. That's my ultimate goal this time. Small and compact.

I'm going to visit the DIY section and see what I can find...

As always all comments are appreciated.

Although I haven't read the entire thread....I read your plan above and let me say... please do as you wish. However, I have a question and some comments:

Why go through the trouble of mixing and aerating nutes into the tub and then dunking your plants allowing them to fill from the bottom up? What advantages over regular feedings are you hoping to obtain?

The algae that forms on top of the P&V Hempys doesn't cause a bit of harm. In fact, if anything it produces Oxygen. Some of mine grow a little Algae on the tops and it doesn't affect my yield one bit. If I were you I'd make my life much easier... I'd mix P&V as my medium and feed them from the top. You'll use less nutrients and there will be way less mess. What you're doing sounds like a lot of extra work for no reason.

Remember, if you want your plants to finish in the 18-24" range you'll want to flower them when they're 6-8" tall. I agree on the premise of smaller plants indoors. CFL, HPS, etc.. lighting simply doesn't mimic the Sun well enough to get light very far down into the canopy. Short plants are the way to go indoors to maximize yield/space given.

Your MH light has more life in it. I've been running the same bulbs in my 600's for the last 2 years with no problems.

I'll try to stop by as much as I can. Best of luck my friend.

 

[sqwheels]

Hi Sqwheels!

Personally, I think you're right the HPS does seem to run a little hotter, but not a ton hotter I don't think (over MH). CFL's and Floros are good for vegging, and you are going to be spending almost all your time flowering, which is where a 400w HPS would work much better than the MH bulb. MH bulbs, even with red in them are not as good for flowering as HPS. BUT, if temps are an issue, stick with what works. Good environment trumps everything. It's the most important factor - good temps, RH, darkness control, etc.

I figure anything over 40w per sq ft. is pretty good, personally, but I'm not an expert on that subject and I don't have a chart to share. I have never supplemented my grows with CFL's, but it certainly might help with side branch/bud development.

Hi Xlr8,

Yep, somewhere I read HPS runs about 10% hotter than MH. My roon temps during the winter with my 400w MH were 78-82 avg, hum 35-50% if I remember right, another 8-10 degrees might be a bad thing. I'm sure this last grow was adversely affected by temps in the 90's avg.

If I keep these plants small by short veg there shouldn't be alot of side branching, right? I may end up just trying a HPS and see what it does to the temps.

Also, didn't I read you were going to dry a hempy/perlite grow? I have never done a grow like that, but I seem to remember Jozo-sha trying something similar ... Maybe somebody with more (any) hempy experience can weigh in on your methodology. Just sounded like something I heard didn't work for Jozo-sha. I'll see if I can find the info I'm referring too... Bear with me, I know so little about hempies, but I want you to succeed.

EDIT: Shoot, I can't find the info - might not have been Jozo-sha. Hope someone with good hempie experience can just weigh in.

This is why I asked for some feedback on this idea...I figured if someone has tried it people here would know...thanks for the info

 

[sqwheels]

Hey Sqwheels! don't fret! As long as they are not so wet that they mold, the longer it takes to fully dry the buds the better the cure! Make sure the humidity isn't really high in the room when you are burping the jars or it kind of defeats the purpose.

If they were really moist, I would suggest you leave the cover off for a while, or even take the buds out of the jar for a couple of hours, but I don't think you need to go that far.

I just uploaded a couple of lighting charts into my gallery, this one might help with what you are looking for.

I've always been told 1000 watts for a 4x4 space, so that would be more like 2 600s for your area, but Xlr8 is correct, environment is the most important aspect of growing indoors, so you go with whatever you can run in a acceptable temperature range.

Hi Fratdogg

Nice of you to visit and to my rambling

My cure seems to be going good actually...I tried it yesterday and it's good. Not done yet but getting there, the buds are actually quite dry but the stems are still moist, they bend, not snap, and I don't want to pack it away until they do.

Great Chart, Where did you find it? Is there one like it for MH? I'm really a visual learner charts such as this are good for me.

1000w in a 4x4' space sounds like alot, I have a growers supply book that says 400w covers a 4x4' and that 1000w is for 8x8' area. I don't have A/C and wouldn't be able to get rid of the excess heat.

 

[sqwheels]

Hey Sqwheels

Here is a link to everything you need to know about CFLs.


This grow I'll be learning from you.......it's going to be new for me.

Glad the fish didn't pull you in!

Hi OMM,

Really informative thread, I'll have to read a while to finish it, but a short peruse has already got me rethinking my last post to Xlr8, about the HPS. Everytime I think I've made a decision on something, I learn something new and start rethinkin' ... Information Overload

The fish...actually they were small...10 maybe 11 inch, large mouth bass, small by most peoples standards, but I don't have any torso muscles and only weight 102lbs myself so they felt big to me. I had sooo much fun, my husband got a picture of me holding my catch just cheezin from ear to ear.

 

[Vapedogg223]

Hi Fratdogg

Nice of you to visit and to my rambling

My cure seems to be going good actually...I tried it yesterday and it's good. Not done yet but getting there, the buds are actually quite dry but the stems are still moist, they bend, not snap, and I don't want to pack it away until they do.

Great Chart, Where did you find it? Is there one like it for MH? I'm really a visual learner charts such as this are good for me.

1000w in a 4x4' space sounds like alot, I have a growers supply book that says 400w covers a 4x4' and that 1000w is for 8x8' area. I don't have A/C and wouldn't be able to get rid of the excess heat.

We all understand the inverse square law, but it makes a big difference to be able to see in a chart how quickly the light diminishes as the source is moved away. The chart was actually shown in a book on growing MMJ that I have, and I later found it else ware on the internet. I do have charts for MH also, I'll upload them and post it in a bit.

I am by no means an expert, it has just been my observation that although you certainly can use a 400w for a 4x4' space, the plants will just do better under more light (assuming you can keep the temps down). The big advantage of a 1000w is in the light penetration. So, if you keep the plants on the smaller side you'll do fine.

I use a 1000w HPS for a 4x4' footprint, but near the end of my last grow I was dealing with heat issues and had to dim it to 600w to keep my temps below 90...we do what we have to, right? As long as you remember environment first, you will be rewarded.

 

[sqwheels]

Some growers do that but it's unnecessary. I slowly pour my feedings into my Hempy's with absolute minimal runoff. Everyone saw the results. Xare feeds his the same way with fantastic results.

Keep it simple.

Xare...is his grow journaled? I did a quick search and didn't find a member Xare.

Although I haven't read the entire thread....I read your plan above and let me say... please do as you wish. However, I have a question and some comments:

Why go through the trouble of mixing and aerating nutes into the tub and then dunking your plants allowing them to fill from the bottom up? What advantages over regular feedings are you hoping to obtain?

The algae that forms on top of the P&V Hempys doesn't cause a bit of harm. In fact, if anything it produces Oxygen. Some of mine grow a little Algae on the tops and it doesn't affect my yield one bit. If I were you I'd make my life much easier... I'd mix P&V as my medium and feed them from the top. You'll use less nutrients and there will be way less mess. What you're doing sounds like a lot of extra work for no reason.

Remember, if you want your plants to finish in the 18-24" range you'll want to flower them when they're 6-8" tall. I agree on the premise of smaller plants indoors. CFL, HPS, etc.. lighting simply doesn't mimic the Sun well enough to get light very far down into the canopy. Short plants are the way to go indoors to maximize yield/space given.

Your MH light has more life in it. I've been running the same bulbs in my 600's for the last 2 years with no problems.

I'll try to stop by as much as I can. Best of luck my friend.

Hi 420fied,

So nice of you to visit, it's your 112sog journal that inspired me to try this style grow. Your results were amazing...truly.

"Why go through the trouble of mixing and aerating..."
because I was recently told this is the way to best incorporate all the nutes, not that it's absolutely necessary but it's better.

"The algae that forms...doesn't cause a bit of harm. In fact, if anything it produces Oxygen."
I didn't know this, and using less nute would be better/cheaper. And less mess is always best.

Smaller is what I'm shooting for with this next grow, my first 2 grows the plants got so big I couldn't hardly deal with them, each time I only had 2 plants and they completely filled that 4x5' room...I don't want to do that again.

Like I said I'd like to dup your 112 sog, but on a much smaller scale.

If you can't tell, I'm new to this and quite overloaded with all the info and differing opinions on various topics.


Thanks for all your input, its much appreciated

 

[Vapedogg223]

Okay, I'm back with the MH chart...

As far as algae goes, you could just cut a slit in a paper plate and you've got a cheap homemade net pot cover for your hempy pots! no light means no algae.

 

[420fied]

To find Xare's journal Google: "White poison Hempy SOG". It's on another site.

Thanks for the kind words. Growing is a neverending learning process. I've been doing it for years and I learn something new almost everyday. Enjoy yourself.

May all your buds be dense.

 

[sqwheels]

Fratdogg,

Thanks for the chart, according to this I've been keeping my light way too close. Optimal would be 5" or more...I have been leaving it about 2-3". Another newbie mistake...man, I've got a lot to learn.

Again...

 

[sqwheels]

420fied,

It's good to know that even an experienced grower such as yourself is still learning...I feel like such an idiot sometimes, ya know..that "duhhh!" feeling.

Thanks for the tip on Xare's journal...I don't frequent other grow sites, but I'll go find this, just because of your suggestion.

 

[Vapedogg223]

Fratdogg,

Thanks for the chart, according to this I've been keeping my light way too close. Optimal would be 5" or more...I have been leaving it about 2-3". Another newbie mistake...man, I've got a lot to learn.

Again...

Well, It's just a chart. There's nothing that says you can't test limits! If your plants weren't showing any signs of heat stress, or bleaching, you are probably okay. If you try the same thing with a different strain you might have issues.

My last couple of grows were White Widow also, and until the Summer heat hit here in earnest I had my 1000w HPS (air cooled!) a few inches from the tops with no issues. Maybe WW is just a really tolerant strain, or maybe the chart has a safety buffer built in. either way, charts, books, etc. are guidelines...when it actually comes to growing, you can start there, but you have to listen to the plants, they'll tell you what they need.

Just remember, as we try to improve on our craft, we NEVER stop learning! That's why we're all here.

 

[sqwheels]

Hi All,

Ok, here we go again. I couldn't resist, I picked 4 white widow seeds from my last hermied grow and germinated them. I used the old paper towel on the cable box method. I wasn't sure it would work, but it did...

Here's the pics...Tues night 7pm

I dampened the paper towel and slipped it into a zipper baggie and put it on top of the cable box

Fri 8am

obviously this simple method works..

I wasn't really planning on starting a new grow until it cooled down here, I figured by the time these seeds grew big enough to take clones it would be at least 5-6wks from now maybe more.

Well, while visiting friends yesterday, I adopted another baby, here she is...

Wonder Woman. This pic is kinda dark, I'll take more and post later

 

[OldMedMan]

Hi Girl
I love my cable box! It works.

Yea, your a grower.....seeds around...you just got to try them. They look good...may you have all girls. The plant you inherited is a good one. Paranoid me. will tell you to check that girl well for critters... you never know. It should start cooling off soon and you'll be ready.

 

[OG13]

Good time to get em started....get two crops done before it gets too hot again....

 

[Xlr8]

Good luck with the new seeds - I'm just starting some new ones too. The progress seems so slowwwww at the beginning.

 

[sqwheels]

Hi Girl
I love my cable box! It works.

Yea, your a grower.....seeds around...you just got to try them. They look good...may you have all girls. The plant you inherited is a good one. Paranoid me. will tell you to check that girl well for critters... you never know. It should start cooling off soon and you'll be ready.

Hi OMM,

Yep, I'm addicted to growing. It shouldn't surprise me tho, I've always liked to plant and watch things grow, til recently it's been mostly outside flowers, and a few vegies in the summer.

You know about Wonder Woman?? I don't like that paranoid feeling after smoking, is that how she affected you?

I've been watching for bugs, will be inspecting daily as usual.

I started a new journal, take a look when you have time.

I'll be asking for input as usual

 

[sqwheels]

Good time to get em started....get two crops done before it gets too hot again....

Hey OG,

Originally I wasn't going to start for another month maybe, but...

Not sure how I'm going to grow these...I'm thinking about making mothers and taking clones, I just haven't figured out a good way to keep and mother in the tiny little spaces I have available to me. The closet I've been using for both veg and flower is 4x5, I have another closet that's 2.5x4 I'm going to try to keep mothers in the little one. Just have to come up with a good plan...any ideas? Visit my new journal and let me hear 'em.

 

[420fied]

Hey OG,

Originally I wasn't going to start for another month maybe, but...

Not sure how I'm going to grow these...I'm thinking about making mothers and taking clones, I just haven't figured out a good way to keep and mother in the tiny little spaces I have available to me. The closet I've been using for both veg and flower is 4x5, I have another closet that's 2.5x4 I'm going to try to keep mothers in the little one. Just have to come up with a good plan...any ideas? Visit my new journal and let me hear 'em.

I don't know if you have other space available where you could incorporate an aero cloner... but if you can, you could run a setp very similar to my 2 liter SOG.

You could keep two mothers in the smaller closet and use CFL's for lighting and cut clones for the cloner. When rooted in the cloner, transfer them to your 4x5 flower room where you could run up to 100, 2 liter SOG plants and enjoy large yields if you have enough lights.

People don't realize that I grow in a really small space. My "veg room" is a very small room that's about 6'x8'.. However, I don't even use all of that space. I keep my mom and cloner in there under a 2'x4' T5 floro unit. When rooted I transfer them to my flower room where I grow on a footprint that's only 4'x6'.

I produce over 50 ounces per 100 plant run.

Just something to think about.

 

[sqwheels]

I don't know if you have other space available where you could incorporate an aero cloner... but if you can, you could run a setp very similar to my 2 liter SOG.

You could keep two mothers in the smaller closet and use CFL's for lighting and cut clones for the cloner. When rooted in the cloner, transfer them to your 4x5 flower room where you could run up to 100, 2 liter SOG plants and enjoy large yields if you have enough lights.

People don't realize that I grow in a really small space. My "veg room" is a very small room that's about 6'x8'.. However, I don't even use all of that space. I keep my mom and cloner in there under a 2'x4' T5 floro unit. When rooted I transfer them to my flower room where I grow on a footprint that's only 4'x6'.

I produce over 50 ounces per 100 plant run.

Just something to think about.

Hi 420fied,

I do have a second smaller closet, I may get a footprint of 2.5'x2.5' in there, that's what I've decided to try anyway. I've started a new journal that will show all this eventually...right now I've got a 5" Wonder Woman and 4 seedlings started, we shall see...

It's your 112 SoG journal that set me on this path to begin with. Truly amazing journal...really. I probably won't make a cloner. From what my buddy says it only takes him a couple weeks to get roots with just a jar of water and some clonex, I don't really have the space for a cloner like yours, and I don't need those kind of numbers. I'm allowed 12 plants, that's it. But I plan on turning that little closet into a room for my mother/'s and flower in the 4x5 closet. I hope it works good...again, we shall see

Come see my new journal if you have time.

Thanks for all your thoughts and suggestions, really appreciated.

 

[OldMedMan]

Hi Girl!

The Wonder Woman I've smoked made me the same way too!