Damn I'm glad to hear you're on the other side of whatever that was! Plants are looking great though, and I hope the docs guide you well through the healing process.
Spring Sippin' With MEVOOP, Bubba Kush & Amnesia Lemon
- Thread starter AspenCultivator
- Start date
Your plants are looking good and I hope you are feeling ok.Hello everyone! Unfortunately I experienced a medical emergency last week and have been unable to put together an update since then. Between appointments, work, and being zonked on medication, I finally feel well enough to do more than just water the plants.
Which, by the way, I've already mentioned it several times so you're probably sick of it but here I go again: I would have had a much harder time if I needed to do more to this grow than what's been needed this past week. Because of the nature of the SIP containers, I just feed or water every few days and clip some fans or troublesome nodes every now and then and bada bing bada boom it grows itself. This capability has helped immensely over the last two weeks.
Back on track, the entire tent was flipped last Sunday, on Day 61. There has been quite a bit of upward growth since then, as you can see in the pics. What worked for me last time was to flip the tent and allow the plants to grow up from 18" away from the light to 12" from the light. At that point I'll start moving the light up as need be. In another few days I'll also be ramping up the ViparSpectra KS2500 from 75% to 100% as suggested. The canopies are not even (flat) at this moment in time, but it's on my radar. I just need to get the energy to find something in the house to put under the buckets or go get something. I'm not terribly concerned with it today, but perhaps this weekend.
Thanks for stopping by and reading! Nothing terribly exciting going on, which in some ways is a good thing! It makes for a boring journal, sure, but I'd rather have a boring journal with no pests/problems then frantically trying to diagnose stuff!
- Thread starter
- #83
AspenCultivator
Well-Known Member
Damn I'm glad to hear you're on the other side of whatever that was! Plants are looking great though, and I hope the docs guide you well through the healing process.
Thanks Shed, I really appreciate it! I don't intend to do the whole TMI thing, but what I can say is every time I went to the bathroom (#2) I'd vomit. Every single time. Many times a day, the entire week last week. I'm definitely on the other side of that insanity, so the meds are working a treat! Now comes the fun part: testing and figuring out what is causing it. Fun fun!
Thanks Keith!
------------------
I forgot to mention those pics were taken before a light defol happened. Most of the fans you see blocking light in the middle of the plants have been removed.
I'm sure it's not this but could be worth a read if you've never heard of it!
What’s Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome (CHS)?
CHS causes cycles of severe nausea and vomiting after long-term marijuana use. You can learn more here.
my.clevelandclinic.org
Glad I do not have that.
- Thread starter
- #86
AspenCultivator
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link! Happily (or unhappily?) that's not it. There's something in my colon that's been identified to be causing the issue. It may require surgery, not sure yet.
Wouldn't that be awful? Lol.
As long as they're getting a handle on it!
- Thread starter
- #88
AspenCultivator
Well-Known Member
Hi everyone! Another easy update today. We're about halfway or so through stretch, and I'm hoping in another 5-7 days the stretch should be slowing down/stopped entirely. I performed a rather intensive defol today, although by the pictures it doesn't seem like it! A lot of smaller branches/nodes were clipped as they're no where near the top of the canopies of each plant.
Quick question: Distance from light. The Amnesia Lemon is much taller than the other two, and I've said I'm going to put stuff under the buckets to raise them all to the same height. How important is this? I mean, will the bud development be hindered since the two plants aren't exactly 12" away from the light? Or perhaps I'm fine to leave them the way they are, and I'm not at risk of losing yield?
Due to @Azimuth correcting me on the quadlining method, I have what appears to be almost double the amount of tops I had for my last grow with the two SIP blueberries. The canopies are also more-or-less at the same height (relative to the plant itself). Fingers crossed the yield is higher, as I was a bit disappointed with my final result last time. It's a learning experience though, right? So it looks like we're already on a better track.
Thanks for stopping in!
Quick question: Distance from light. The Amnesia Lemon is much taller than the other two, and I've said I'm going to put stuff under the buckets to raise them all to the same height. How important is this? I mean, will the bud development be hindered since the two plants aren't exactly 12" away from the light? Or perhaps I'm fine to leave them the way they are, and I'm not at risk of losing yield?
Due to @Azimuth correcting me on the quadlining method, I have what appears to be almost double the amount of tops I had for my last grow with the two SIP blueberries. The canopies are also more-or-less at the same height (relative to the plant itself). Fingers crossed the yield is higher, as I was a bit disappointed with my final result last time. It's a learning experience though, right? So it looks like we're already on a better track.
Thanks for stopping in!
The more light to the canopy the better the odds of hitting your Daily Light Integral (DLI) for the plant in the light hours it gets. That's why an even canopy indoors is best. Of course it's not always possible, but if a riser will get that for you it's an easy and effective fix.
Wow what a growth they had in a week! Nice! And nice to see you're on the mend!
- Thread starter
- #91
AspenCultivator
Well-Known Member
Hi everyone! It's been a couple weeks of straight busy I'll say, but I finally have a chance to take some pics and make an update.
And it's not good.
All 3 plants are showing a deficiency, which started with the Bubba Kush about a week ago. At that same time I raised the BK and the MEVOOP up to the level of the Amnesia Lemon (so the tops are about the same level) and I thought the problem with the BK was from light burn or something from being raised up 9 inches or so all at once (but the MEVOOP didn't have that problem). I left it for a few days and the problem steadily got worse, and started presenting in the other two plants. So it's not light burn.
All 3 were flushed yesterday in the bath tub. They got 10 gallons from the top and I waited for it all to drain out of the overflow hole in the SIPs. Even with larger overflow holes the whole process still took about 6 hours. I could only get 1/2 gallon in at a time and then have to wait for the water level to decrease so I can add more. Real big pain. But, never-the-less, it's done now and I'm hoping that solves the problem.
I took a peek this morning and things are looking worse. To compound the problem, while the plants were out of the tent yesterday, I was forced to move the tent from where it was on my first floor up to another room on the second floor. My house doesn't have A/C, and the entire second level gets pretty warm in mid to late summer, and the inside of the tent right now is registering 89* F. I suspect in a few hours that'll get up to 95*F or higher, and that's how it's going to be until things cool off in early September.
So, I can't control the heat (can't buy a stand-up AC or a window unit for that room) and they've already been flushed. If they don't get better at this point, I'm not sure what else to do. This grow might very well be done at this point if they don't get better.
Thanks for stopping by.
And it's not good.
All 3 plants are showing a deficiency, which started with the Bubba Kush about a week ago. At that same time I raised the BK and the MEVOOP up to the level of the Amnesia Lemon (so the tops are about the same level) and I thought the problem with the BK was from light burn or something from being raised up 9 inches or so all at once (but the MEVOOP didn't have that problem). I left it for a few days and the problem steadily got worse, and started presenting in the other two plants. So it's not light burn.
All 3 were flushed yesterday in the bath tub. They got 10 gallons from the top and I waited for it all to drain out of the overflow hole in the SIPs. Even with larger overflow holes the whole process still took about 6 hours. I could only get 1/2 gallon in at a time and then have to wait for the water level to decrease so I can add more. Real big pain. But, never-the-less, it's done now and I'm hoping that solves the problem.
I took a peek this morning and things are looking worse. To compound the problem, while the plants were out of the tent yesterday, I was forced to move the tent from where it was on my first floor up to another room on the second floor. My house doesn't have A/C, and the entire second level gets pretty warm in mid to late summer, and the inside of the tent right now is registering 89* F. I suspect in a few hours that'll get up to 95*F or higher, and that's how it's going to be until things cool off in early September.
So, I can't control the heat (can't buy a stand-up AC or a window unit for that room) and they've already been flushed. If they don't get better at this point, I'm not sure what else to do. This grow might very well be done at this point if they don't get better.
Thanks for stopping by.
Damn. Not sure what that is, AC.
Phosphorous deficiency?
I guess it could be light burn but I don't have enough experience with grow lights to say for sure.
Good luck!
Phosphorous deficiency?
I guess it could be light burn but I don't have enough experience with grow lights to say for sure.
Good luck!
Boy, that seems to be limited to just the tops of the highest buds. Seems like that should point to environmental. If you're sure it's not light burn (which would be my first guess) do you have some weird air flow pattern at just that height?
- Thread starter
- #94
AspenCultivator
Well-Known Member
It's possible, which is why I flushed. My previous grow in SIP with FF nutes needed a flush around this time, but I caught it earlier than this. However, the damage appears to be different than how it looked when I flushed last grow...so it's hard telling.
I have three AC clip-on fans (6" I believe) that have stayed at the same velocity since I turned them up 5-6 weeks ago. I haven't changed their speeds since then. Two on top, one blowing air across the bottom of the canopies. Lights are out right now, so if I get a chance I'll take a pic of the setup tomorrow.
With the Amnesia Lemon, the only variable that's changed is heat. But you're right, the damage is only on the tops. But the light didn't change in relation to that plant, as it's much taller than the other two. It's the other two that needed to be raised, and when I raised them, the BK responded negatively but the MEVOOP was lush and green as ever until about 10 days later after the raise.
I had a eureka moment and remembered someone on these forums switched the lights to be on at night and off during the day. Since doing that just an hour ago, the temp is already down to 80F from 90F, and it's the hottest part of the day. I'll monitor over the next few days (if they stay alive!) but I'm assuming the heat shouldn't be as much of a problem as I initially thought.
What I'll also do is just raise the light 6 inches. If it is light related, raising it should help.
I do that. It not only helps keep the heat down in summer, but raises the temps during the cold night of winter. Also, some utilities have lower rates in off peak hours like nights. A win all around.
The only downside for me is scheduling the 12 hour lights on around a reasonable schedule for me to check on them. But a 7-7 type schedule works pretty well there.
And I don't control for temps. Yes, there are ideal temperature ranges in which canna grows, but I've been getting triple digit highs for a few weeks now and they handle it ok. A few curled leaves as they try to avoid it, but I haven't had any herms yet from it.
- Thread starter
- #96
AspenCultivator
Well-Known Member
Definitely makes sense, and is something I'll keep in mind for next time.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I opened the tent this morning and 30% of the tops in the entire tent were laid over and the leaves were even more crunchy and gnarly than last night. The temp in the tent was 95*F and it's the coldest part of the day. So, it's done. I'm done. I also have a server in that room that can't be in super heat, and the room itself is probably 80*F++ (and getting hotter) and if I'm being frank, the server is more important than the plants. So, this happened.
A sad day to be sure, but I'm already over it. I won't be able to grow until I fix the environment upstairs and that won't happen until next summer probably. I'll be growing indoors this winter and will post a new journal when that time comes. For now though, this is it for me.
Thank you to everyone who has stopped by to offer words of encouragement. A bigger thank you to those who helped right the ship so to speak and corrected me along the way. I've still learned a ton from this grow and can take that forward to the next one. Not all is lost as it would seem.
This grow is complete, I hope everyone has a wonderful rest of their week!
ReservoirDog
Well-Known Member
You're a trooper Aspen. Maintaining critical priorities when dashed expectations careen into complex stress events is where a lot of people fall down. Nice work. Really hoping your health holds up for you too.
I suspect some nutes require a flush once before flip, so I think every fertigated SIP should have one done for safety. My timing is to flush one week-10 days before flipping so plants recover. Replenishing the reservoir with a normal nute level after flushing is my recommendation at this point. Still learning to fly these SIPs, by the seat of our pants.
Having an exit tube on the SIP instead of just a hole really helps with the mess, and you can use a siphon to pour the water on the plant so you don't have to stand there. I also find (mostly from reading anecdotal info by growers on other forums) that the level where potential salts build-up takes place is only about an inch or so above the false floor. As a result, plugging the drain hole and then overfilling the reservoir with straight water a few times can really help soak some of that stuff out of there - as it attacks the problem area more directly.
I really recommend SIP growers pick up one of these https://www.amazon.com/s?tag=420magazine0f-20
It will change your life! Make sure to get rechargeable AA's!
I've found that because the plants have constant access to ferts, that I can easily use 1/2 -2/3 of max recommended ferts in flower and veg, and achieve the same results as 100%. I tend to max out at about 1000 ppm (500) or, always well below 2.0 EC. This is in peat/perlite (Sunshine #4 or ProMix).
I think you had an issue with the ferts; yeah, maybe your lighting was a wee bit aggressive, maybe, and I'm not there to really know what happened, and importantly, in what order, so can't be sure. But you really had some life stuff happen and for me this can really hiccup a grow. I have to learn to accept it, on some level, or quit. Super impressed by you, please hang in there with me mate.
I suspect some nutes require a flush once before flip, so I think every fertigated SIP should have one done for safety. My timing is to flush one week-10 days before flipping so plants recover. Replenishing the reservoir with a normal nute level after flushing is my recommendation at this point. Still learning to fly these SIPs, by the seat of our pants.
Having an exit tube on the SIP instead of just a hole really helps with the mess, and you can use a siphon to pour the water on the plant so you don't have to stand there. I also find (mostly from reading anecdotal info by growers on other forums) that the level where potential salts build-up takes place is only about an inch or so above the false floor. As a result, plugging the drain hole and then overfilling the reservoir with straight water a few times can really help soak some of that stuff out of there - as it attacks the problem area more directly.
I really recommend SIP growers pick up one of these https://www.amazon.com/s?tag=420magazine0f-20
It will change your life! Make sure to get rechargeable AA's!
I've found that because the plants have constant access to ferts, that I can easily use 1/2 -2/3 of max recommended ferts in flower and veg, and achieve the same results as 100%. I tend to max out at about 1000 ppm (500) or, always well below 2.0 EC. This is in peat/perlite (Sunshine #4 or ProMix).
I think you had an issue with the ferts; yeah, maybe your lighting was a wee bit aggressive, maybe, and I'm not there to really know what happened, and importantly, in what order, so can't be sure. But you really had some life stuff happen and for me this can really hiccup a grow. I have to learn to accept it, on some level, or quit. Super impressed by you, please hang in there with me mate.
- Thread starter
- #98
AspenCultivator
Well-Known Member
Thanks RD, I appreciate your nice words. Your initial thoughts on SIP containers are what I followed to achieve the success in my Blueberry grow (along with Azi of course, can't leave him out!) so I appreciate your presence and taking the time to explain your thoughts. I must say it's very well received and I appreciate it!
The Blueberries required a flush a few weeks after flower, and I noted in that journal I'd do it my next grow. With life stuff happening, I missed the opportunity to do that and by the time I had even thought of it, it was too late. Once I flushed, I should have left them where they were (to have the same environment) for a couple of days before moving them. I believe the combination of the over-fert (I'll get to that) lock out/deficiency, flooded roots, and drastic increase in temperature contributed to their demise. But, I'm not an expert. I absolutely agree flushing is needed for these nutes, tho.
As I was bent over the bathtub pouring water from a pitcher ever-so-slowly I thought of using a fine mesh over a 1" x 1" hole in the bucket, at the level 1" below the top of the internal reservoir. Perlite would be located directly in front of it, between the res and the bucket wall, which is what I already do for the 3/8" hole that's there. Indeed that would allow a greater volume of water to drain at a faster pace, similar to your tube. I'd say either method is critical when using synthetic nutes. Again, I noted these design changes (and even considered a two bucket design) in my last journal, but alas, nothing was done about it. Lesson learned.
Lastly, a note about fert values. I was using 100% strength from the Fox Farms schedule and not alternating water between feedings (which I did with the Blueberries, perhaps contributing to their success). Others are using synthetic and not doing F/W/F, so I wanted to push the plants and give it a shot. I think the salts caught up to them, thus your blocking of a tube would make more sense than a giant mesh hole to get them out. My PPM (0.7 scale) was ridiculously high, way higher than 1000. Fox Farms is known to be hot as it is, so lowering the strength would definitely be a better bet moving forward.
I'll be hanging out here until around late September or early October. The temps should be much cooler by then to get 3 SIPs going again and I can jump back into it. I was pissed a few days ago, but now it's all good because knowledge was gained and I've become a better grower because of it (we'll put that to the test in Oct!)
I'd love to see you try one with the bucket-in-bucket design to apply the flush.
The only additional thing you'd need would be something to hold the top bucket up so it's not resting on the connector pot during the flush. Another bucket top would work great as the base as long as there were an adequate number of holes at the very bottom of it for the drain water to pass.
The only additional thing you'd need would be something to hold the top bucket up so it's not resting on the connector pot during the flush. Another bucket top would work great as the base as long as there were an adequate number of holes at the very bottom of it for the drain water to pass.
Well that was a surprise! Like RD mentioned, priorities are what they are so you did what you had to do. Good decision.
I also would have gone with light burn (and heat at 90+º) but a 9" change can be a huge jump for one plant and not the other, and as long as you leave it at the new height they'll keep burning. 2" every few days is usually what's recommended along with watching the tops to see how they respond.
Looking forward to the fall with you!
I also would have gone with light burn (and heat at 90+º) but a 9" change can be a huge jump for one plant and not the other, and as long as you leave it at the new height they'll keep burning. 2" every few days is usually what's recommended along with watching the tops to see how they respond.
Looking forward to the fall with you!