Slye's First Discreet Closet Soil Grow 2012

[Slye]

I decided to start this grow journal because I'm a growing virgin and I'm open to all the help this community of experienced greenthumbs can offer. Maybe later I'll add a little backstory on why I've decided to grow, but for now, it's down to brass tacks:

This journal will cover my first growing attempt from construction to ... hopefully a bountiful harvest! All of the other journals I looked over started at germination (or later!). This journal starts at the beginningmost beginning. Since this is my first grow, and since I intend to put seeds to water sooner than later, and since this might be helpful for others who are just starting out, I figure I may as well just jump right in.

My grow at a glance:

• Indoor
• Soil
• 3-6 plants
• Grow space is a 64" wide x 46" deep x 96" tall closet (roughly 5'3" x 3'10" x 8')

Phase 1 - The Big Build
So, this project is currently in the planning stage. I can't save this post as a draft, so I'll just have to come back to add more details later when I have a bit more time.

I'm currently trying to decide on a lighting system.

LED
Pros

• Low electrical footprint
• Reduced heat generation

Cons

• Mixed results. Some people swear by their LEDs, others have tried and failed with them. The overall consensus seems to be that the technology isn't quite mature enough yet.
• Initial cost. Although the operating costs are significantly reduced, the purchase price for a quality light is quite high.

CFL
I don't really know a lot about CFLs. Seems like a more complicated system because you need to balance different types of lights (e.g., bulbs and tubes) and different spectrums (e.g., daylight and broad spectrum).

HID
Pros

• By all accounts, it produces the heartiest plants with the greatest yield

Cons

• Greatly increased electrical footprint
• Heat may become a factor
• Cost. Operating costs are the highest of the three options, and initial purchase or bulbs and ballast is nothing to shrug at either.

Problem: What type of lighting should I go with? I've all but ruled out LED, given their poor performance, which is too bad because the decreased heat and power consumption are serious plusses. I'm leaning towards a 600W HID setup, but I'm concerned about the heat and electricity usage. My current monthly electrical usage (haha, get it?) is quite low and the change in usage would be evident, I think. I'm in Canada, where I think I enjoy a little more privacy protection than those south of me, but still. Would a 400W HID be sufficient? If I went with CFLs instead, would I be able to reduce my heat and power consumption without sacrificing yield or driving up cost?

Phase 2 - Grow, Baby, Grow
Anticipated start October 14.

Phase 3 - Harvest

Time to work on other things ... more later. Feedback on lighting most welcome!!

 

[little-G]

give us a pic of the closet

Im subed.

 

[Slye]

Welcome little-G! Thanks for hanging out

I've been totally overwhelmed by all the options for my closet. This way, that way, one of these, two of those. I spent the better part of this past week humming and hawing about a bcnl cabinet. They're pricey, no doubt, but I like the idea of flattening out the learning curve a bit. I even found some used producers in my local area at a great price. Unfortunately, the producer is too big for my space. I looked at the roommate model too, but I found it to be too small. With space only for 4 plants, I don't think it offers the same value.

So, onwards and upwards -- back to building my own.

In trying to keep things simple, I figure I can save myself some bother with temperature regulation, fan noise, and ducting running off every which way by opting for a LED solution. I've read enough grow journals to be confident that they are capable of producing a fine crop. I'll grow the plants in a SCrOG (screen of green) to try to make up for any weakness in the LED light. I'm looking at the Dorm Grow 450W or 600W, or the GrowStealth 300W Pro-Bloom. Both are sponsors here, both have been used successfully in journals here. I wish the GrowStealth had something in the 450W range though, because the price jump from 300W to 600W is brutal. Especially with an LED, I think 300W runs the risk of being underpowered, while 600W is probably more than I need. I figure I could throw in a pair of T5s for flowering if need be.

Also, the growing space has changed. It's now smaller Whatever I build will now have to fit within 44" x 27.5" x 96" (w x d x h). I can claim a little more depth if I need it (2 feet is pretty tight), but the other two dimensions are set in stone ... or drywall, as the case may be.

Finally, I'm leaning away from soil. Too conspicuous to be moving old soil out and new soil in for each grow, and there's really no place to dispose of the old soil. So, hydro it is. Now, the question is, ebb & flow, drip buckets, deep water culture, recirculating dwc? So many options. So much to read. So much to learn and do. Granted, that's part of the fun, but I would like to keep to my schedule of germing in two weeks!

On the upside, I found an excellent hydro shop nearby. The location is discreet, the staff are unbelievable, and the prices are good.

Back to the books!

 

[Grand Daddy Purp]

Welcome little-G! Thanks for hanging out

I've been totally overwhelmed by all the options for my closet. This way, that way, one of these, two of those. I spent the better part of this past week humming and hawing about a bcnl cabinet. They're pricey, no doubt, but I like the idea of flattening out the learning curve a bit. I even found some used producers in my local area at a great price. Unfortunately, the producer is too big for my space. I looked at the roommate model too, but I found it to be too small. With space only for 4 plants, I don't think it offers the same value.

So, onwards and upwards -- back to building my own.

In trying to keep things simple, I figure I can save myself some bother with temperature regulation, fan noise, and ducting running off every which way by opting for a LED solution. I've read enough grow journals to be confident that they are capable of producing a fine crop. I'll grow the plants in a SCrOG (screen of green) to try to make up for any weakness in the LED light. I'm looking at the Dorm Grow 450W or 600W, or the GrowStealth 300W Pro-Bloom. Both are sponsors here, both have been used successfully in journals here. I wish the GrowStealth had something in the 450W range though, because the price jump from 300W to 600W is brutal. Especially with an LED, I think 300W runs the risk of being underpowered, while 600W is probably more than I need. I figure I could throw in a pair of T5s for flowering if need be.

Also, the growing space has changed. It's now smaller Whatever I build will now have to fit within 44" x 27.5" x 96" (w x d x h). I can claim a little more depth if I need it (2 feet is pretty tight), but the other two dimensions are set in stone ... or drywall, as the case may be.

Finally, I'm leaning away from soil. Too conspicuous to be moving old soil out and new soil in for each grow, and there's really no place to dispose of the old soil. So, hydro it is. Now, the question is, ebb & flow, drip buckets, deep water culture, recirculating dwc? So many options. So much to read. So much to learn and do. Granted, that's part of the fun, but I would like to keep to my schedule of germing in two weeks!

On the upside, I found an excellent hydro shop nearby. The location is discreet, the staff are unbelievable, and the prices are good.

Back to the books!

I am going to sub to this as I have a similar dimensional space, almost the same foot print to a T. With that said I will say Hydro is a very time consuming way of growing and also a lot trickier than soil. I recommend getting a few soil grows under your belt first as they are very forgiving. I just recently, today, added a 36"W x 20" D x 63"H tent for my grows as it is becoming necessary for my goals. I would check my grows in my signature to give you an idea of what to expect in your area. I think it will help you a lot considering we are operating out of a similar foot print. I will also post a picture of what my closet is going to be setup like next week when my 400w set up arrives to give you ideas. I hope this is helpful. I think 6 plants will not fit in the space unless you do SOG as opposed ScrOG.

 

[Slye]

Thanks for your contribution, Tactical Grow!

The limited amount of space is also a concern for the hydro setup. The reservoir and tubing take up room that could be used by plants in a soil setup. However, since I'm going to scrog this grow, I need to resist the urge to maximize the sheer number of plants and focus on methods that will accelerate vegging (to fill out the screen quickly). Also, I've read people saying that flushing soil is tricky at the best of times, and even more so when the plant can't be removed to a faucet.

 

[Grand Daddy Purp]

Yeah flushing is a juggling act if you have no idea what to expect. I was able to move my pant but it was still hard to complete the task. On my current grow I am vegging to 2' then flipping to 12/12 as I think she is going to be a nice lady and will give ample yield.
I am able to maintain heat with my HID lights in this area and think that would be the way to go for you. I am not on the LED bandwagon yet.

 

[Slye]

Found a tent of the proper size (3' x 4') that will hold my 2' x 4' flood table. Going to pick it up in a few days and start setting up. I was going to just tarp up a space of my own design, but in the vein of keeping things simple, I'm going with the tent so that I can better control light leaks and air flow. Local shop is offering me a 4" inline with scrubber for a good price that I think I can get reduced further. I can't remember the CFM off the top of my head, but it was more than 150 and less than 250. With the low heat profile I think that'll be sufficient.

I've read so bloody damn much on lighting I feel like ... well, I don't know ... like I've read a lot about lighting! There's so many options and most of them are bad. Well, maybe not bad outright, but there is a lot of 'bro science' and misinformation to sift through. As it stands, I'm looking pretty hard at either 2 Advanced LED Diamond XML 150s, an Advanced LED DS600, or ... well, not sure if I can name the others ... If I can't find a local distributor then I'll have to decide quickly and get my order in if I want to keep my germination date!

Seriously though, I feel like I could give an hour lecture on LEDs. I've surely spent at least 20 hours reading this and that -- and not reviews and marketing brochure crap, but actually getting my head around what a plants photosynthetic requirements are, spectrum profiles, light intensity, and so on, and on, and on.

 

[Slye]

Picked up seeds, lighting, and most of the growing area. Good things are underway!

So, tent is 4.5' by 3' -- an odd dimension. For whatever reason, a lot of the available tents are square. My space is rectangular and for various reasons I'm not interested in doing a construction job of that size. So, for example, anything Secret Jardin is not available. Bummer. I did find one eventually and I'll have more to say about that when I put it together.

Lighting is provided by 8 x 4' 54W T5s. 4 bulbs are veggers and 4 flower powers. One of the nice features of this lamp is that bulbs are wired in parallel, so I can remove, say, the last bulb or two from either side and run just the 4 or 6 inside lamps. I figure that'll save a bit of power consumption. The plants will be grown in a scrog with fairly aggressive pruning, so light penetration should be plenty good.

Ventilation is provided by a 4" ~180 CFM inline fan with a carbon filter. I was going to DIY a carbon filter, and I still probably will at some point for a drying box, but I thought I should have one that's known to work! Also picked up a fan speed controller.

Any suggestions on a slick temperature/humidity meter? I'd like to see one with a remote sensor ... small sensor inside and classy little readout for outside?

 

[Pho-Real]

Subbed to this, coincidentally I'm finishing up a closet soil design and it's my first time growing as well, I'll put in updates and such, maybe we could help each other out on this quest for bud

 

[Pho-Real]

Also, I think you should check out Subcool's super soil recipe, there's enough nutrients in it that all it needs is water for the entire life cycle

 

[Muttt]

Sounds like a good plan. Take a look at my grow journal in my signature block (just below this paragraph). It has a good explaination of my grow box and lots of pics. Sounds like your's and mine are similar.

 

[Slye]

So I thought I would be able to edit my first post as I went along to keep it updated with the most recent information. I can not. Maybe it's because I'm a new member here and maybe there's some other reason, but the end result is the same. Bummer.

Probably the most important change from the original grow description is that I will not be using soil. I'll be using an ebb & flow system instead. I've got a 4x2 flood table that holds roughly 13 gallons of water when completely full. I'm only doing two plants, so I picked up 2 net pots that measure 7 1/2" tall by almost 10" wide. Too big, I think, and they have a lip on them that suggests they're intended use with buckets, but it's what the local shop had. It was either pots too big or too small. I went with bigger and figured I'd just add more medium. More medium should mean less frequent floods and a more stable plant. Time will tell.

I decided to go with Growstones rather than hydroton because a) I like to be different , b) it was less expensive, and c) I'd read various bad things about hydroton and various good things about growstones. Once again, time will tell. But I can say that they're very clean, light, porous, and absorbant. I put about a 1/2 tsp of water on the counter and put a stone in it and the stone just sucked it right up. Let me see hydroton do that. Also, it's made from recycled glass in the USA instead of strip mined and imported from Germany, so, win, win.

I'm trying to get the best of both worlds with my seed starting technique. I soaked the seeds in a shot glass of water, covered with a coffee mug, set upon a small plate, and placed on top of my water heater. Dark - check. Warm - check. Wet - double check. 18hr later the seeds had just cracked open. No tap root emerging yet, just cracked open so you could see the white inside. I moved them to rockwool cubes that I had been soaked in a water/lemon juice mix for 1hr. They're back on top of the water heater now until, hopefully, the seedlings break the surface and really begin to grow. It's been 36hr in the rockwool so far and I wouldn't expect to see anything poking through for another day or two or three or four but hopefully not more!

You can see the seeds are nicely mottled and they sank within the first 12h of soaking. They seem as eager to grow as I am!

 

[Slye]

Oh, also wanted to add a few photos of the fan/filter mounting, since I had a little trouble getting it right and couldn't find much helpful information out there.

4" inline fan with activated carbon filter. You want your fan to pull air through the filter, and you want that filter as near the top of your grow space as you can reasonably get it. Since hot air rises having the exhaust up high will more efficiently remove hot air. But also, I needed to ensure that I had enough space between the flood table and the light. In an 8' tent, subtract 2 1/2' for the distance between the floor and the top of the flood table, another 2' from the top of the tent to the top of the light fixture, and you're only left with 3 1/2' of vertical growing space. Subtract from that the distance between the bottom of the light and the top of the top of the plant canopy when the plants are fully mature and there isn't a lot of vertical space to spare! Sure, fluorescents don't get as hot as HIDs, but they don't run cold either and there needs to be 4" - 1 1/2' of space there (depending on how many bulbs and their wattage).

I don't know how people do it with HIDs. Not only are HID reflectors going to be taller than fluoros, they're going to need to keep the light ever further away from their plants. Not to mention all the extra heat means running fans at higher speeds. You would have no choice but to grow using a system that kept your plants at floor level.

I ran a test and I can keep my fan turned down to between 50%-60% and maintain temps in the mid 70s.

 

[Slye]

Subbed to this, coincidentally I'm finishing up a closet soil design and it's my first time growing as well, I'll put in updates and such, maybe we could help each other out on this quest for bud

Thanks for subbing up! I've abandoned the idea of soil for now, but hopefully you'll stick around anyway!

 

[Slye]

Sounds like a good plan. Take a look at my grow journal in my signature block (just below this paragraph). It has a good explaination of my grow box and lots of pics. Sounds like your's and mine are similar.

Lots of similarities indeed. We even have similar wives!

 

[Grand Daddy Purp]

Looks like your plan is moving right along.

 

[Slye]

Pretty sure I damaged my two sprouting seeds. Maybe not irreparably, but their development seems to have been hindered enough for me to start again.

I didn't balance the water that I presoaked the rockwool cubes in -- I just squirted in a bunch of lemon juice. Also, I didn't give the rockwool cubes any light after I put the seeds in. Now, granted, they wouldn't need a lot of light, but I think I should have put them under at least 1 T5 bulb, if only to provide a little heat.

I'm not going to try to reinvent the wheel this time. I'm going to follow ... can't find the link now ... a YouTube video that I thought was particularly well executed. It's just the standard paper towel method. This time I'll balance the rockwool, wait to plant the seeds until the tap roots are roughly 1/4" - 3/8", and put the planted seeds under a T5.

Live and learn... live and learn.

 

[Muttt]

As long as you LEARN .... all is good.

 

[Slye]

Quick little update...

One of the seedlings that I thought I damaged is growing quite nicely. The other, not so much.

I've gotten my little seedling hatchery pretty much where I want it now, in terms of heat and humidity.

Just to the left of the tray is a small 5v fan. When I put the cover over the tray I leave a 1/4" - 1/2" gap where the air can blow in. The incoming air crosses the little espresso cup of water picking up humidity, past the hygrometer, over and around the seedlings, and exhausted out the other end. The water in the espresso cup is pH 5.8. The first two rockwool cubes are recently germinated (using only paper towel method); the two on the right are the first two seeds I germinated. Clearly the one on the left is the one that's growing and the other is the one I killed. (Well, most likely killed. The seed head is just barely visible breaching the rockwool, but it's been that way for 3 or 4 days and I don't expect it to suddenly start to thrive.) I water the bare rockwool cubes by just dipping them briefly in the espresso cup, and I water the other two with a spray bottle.

I'm not really loving the rockwool cubes though, I have to say. The prepared holes are never right in the middle, they're differing widths and depths, and once the sprout is in, it's really difficult to pack the medium back down to hold the sprout snugly. I'm pretty sure that one seedling died because there was too much air around the tap root.

My local shop wasn't too helpful with suggesting alternatives and, despite reading and searching around, I'm not fully clear on what other products can be used with a hydroponic system. So, question: what are some alternatives to rockwool that can be used in a hydro system? Would peat pucks be acceptable?

On germinating seeds ... my experience so far suggests that the best way to start from seeds is to soak in a shot glass of water for 12-18 hours (not necessarily until the seeds pop, just long enough to get them good and wet), then transfer to paper towel while the tap root grows out a bit. Keep them warm and keep them dark. You'll be planting those sprouts in no time!

 

[Grand Daddy Purp]

Nice set up!