Short and bushy sativa hybrid with droopy leaves

[crono]

Hi everyone!

First post, first grow.

I recently decided to get myself a starter kit from ACI. It's a small tent (2x2x4) with the 100W LED board. I grabbed some Super Silver Haze + Afghan seeds from a local supplier and got started a few weeks ago.

Bought some light mix soil and coco from BioBizz and mixed them 50/50 into a 5gal pot, because I have no clue wtf I'm doing

I germinated a seed, planted it in the soil - and, surprise surprise, something actually grew! Was really excited and nurtured the little seedling into something bigger.

Now, everything seemed to be going great. But after noticing a slight green edge on one of the fan leaves, I panicked, and because I could not find any examples of what was happening, I gave her too much water (2L) just one day after having already watered her (500ml). The leaves also started to wrinkle a lot, which seemed to be due to overwatering/PH imbalance, according to the experts in here.

So, realizing that I might have effed up, I let her sit and dry.. for 7 days.. and she kept drooping. Not perking at all like what I see other's plants do at this stage.

I convinced myself that maybe it was normal, and kept going. I decided to top her right above the 4th node, and the drooping kept going. Today, after checking the soil at the core of the pot, it felt bone dry, so I decided to give her 1L of water with 2ml of Acti-Vera. I have yet to add any extra nutrients to the water, as the soil contains some already.

She's also looking very bushy for a sativa dominant strain, and very short too - with fan leaves completely covering all new growth underneath. New growth looks nice and green, but also drooping a bit.

Average temperature is 25C day / 20C night, with RH 45% day / 55% night, water PH always 6.3.

As a first time grower, I have no clue if this is normal, or if I should do something at this point.

She's 3½ weeks old at this point. Oh, and ofc. I broke one of the cotyledons today

 

[Carcass]

Welcome to 420, crono
I grew a Super Silver Haze a few years ago, and it had wide, semi-droopy leaves it's whole life.
It didn't really look at all sativa, but the smoke def. leaned toward sativa...
Your plant looks great to me- maybe a smidge too much water, but, other than that she looks healthy as can be...
An example-Here's my SSH- notice the wide, kinda droopy leaves- the leaves looked like that practically from day one. She did ok despite the droop, in fact she was 420's plant of the year back in 2021...

 

[crono]

Welcome to 420, crono
I grew a Super Silver Haze a few years ago, and it had wide, semi-droopy leaves it's whole life.
It didn't really look at all sativa, but the smoke def. leaned toward sativa...
Your plant looks great to me- maybe a smidge too much water, but, other than that she looks healthy as can be...
An example-Here's my SSH- notice the wide, kinda droopy leaves- the leaves looked like that practically from day one. She did ok despite the droop, in fact she was 420's plant of the year back in 2021...

Thank you for the warm welcome!

That's a gorgeous picture Oo - just wow

My leaves look a bit wider than yours, but that's maybe because of the hybridization with Afghan. Are the wrinkly leaves a common occurrence or is it that why you mention she looks slightly overwatered?

Also, the fact that she's completely shrouding the undergrowth should not be an issue?

 

[Carcass]

Thank you for the warm welcome!

And Thank You for joining the forum! *edit- coincidentally, I also grow in a 2'x2'x48".

is it that why you mention she looks slightly overwatered?

Yes, but looking again at your plant, I'm thinking overwatering isn't an issue..the leaves will also get "bumpy" when they're growing fast, and that's what I think your plant is doing..she looks damn good!

Also, the fact that she's completely shrouding the undergrowth should not be an issue?

You kinda have to let them block stuff for a little while- I usually wait till the little branches underneath get to be an inch long or so,
then I'll remove the leaves that are doing the blocking, which is usually just the top 4 leaves- once you unblock them, those little branches will start growing like crazy- so your plant won't look "naked" for long..

If you don't like removing leaves, you may be able to just tuck them out of the way, but that can be difficult when they're as young as your plant, because everything is so compact- this stuff gets easier once she gets a little bigger, because you've got more room..

I broke one of the cotyledons today

She's done with them, so not a problem...

Good Luck with your grow!

 

[crono]

And Thank You for joining the forum!

Yes, but looking again at your plant, I'm thinking overwatering isn't an issue..the leaves will also get "bumpy" when they're growing fast, and that's what I think your plant is doing..she looks damn good!

You kinda have to let them block stuff for a little while- I usually wait till the little branches underneath get to be an inch long or so,
then I'll remove the leaves that are doing the blocking, which is usually just the top 4 leaves- once you unblock them, those little branches will start growing like crazy- so your plant won't look "naked" for long..

If you don't like removing leaves, you may be able to just tuck them out of the way, but that can be difficult when they're as young as your plant, because everything is so compact- this stuff gets easier once she gets a little bigger, because you've got more room..

She's done with them, so not a problem...

Good Luck with your grow!

Thank you for putting my mind at ease. Hope she won't get too mad that I stopped watering her for a week

I don't have an issue with trimming her down if needed, even though I feel a little bad for her, haha (never thought I'd feel this way about a plant!). I'm willing to take a few risks while learning.

The inner branches (behind the biggest fan leaf) is roughly 1½-2" long now, with 1-2" long leaves, so might be an idea to chop those big wings off soon. I topped her 3 days ago, so should maybe let her recover for a few more days before snipping off more?

The first true leaves wilted a bit from my lack of watering - would you prune those too?

Also happy to hear she won't be too upset about my clumsy fingers breaking a cotyledon. They're still green, but I guess she's pulling nutrients from the soil already.

Thanks again for taking the time to answer

 

[Carcass]

You're Welcome, crono

I topped her 3 days ago, so should maybe let her recover for a few more days before snipping off more?

She should be good with the topping by now, so you could snip (or tuck) those big fans any time...

IF you do cut the leaves off, leave about a half inch of the petiole (leaf stem) on the plant- it's supposed to be easier on the plant if you leave a bit of the the stem on.

She may look a bit sparse for a day or 2, but those branches will really take off once they can see the light, and she'll fill back in in no time..

 

[crono]

You're Welcome, crono

She should be good with the topping by now, so you could snip (or tuck) those big fans any time...

IF you do cut the leaves off, leave about a half inch of the petiole (leaf stem) on the plant- it's supposed to be easier on the plant if you leave a bit of the the stem on.

She may look a bit sparse for a day or 2, but those branches will really take off once they can see the light, and she'll fill back in in no time..

Good stuff - thank you.

Getting a bit late here, and she's about to go to sleep. Will write an update in this thread and ping you in a day or two, if you don't mind?

 

[Carcass]

Sounds good to me!

 

[zigzagman1960]

Those plants are overwatered. Let em dry out until you stick your finger up to the first knuckle and it feels dry. Taking any leaves off those plants will do no good. There’s like 6 to 8 fans on each plant. Here’s how it works….
the human feeds the medium
the medium feeds the roots
the roots feed the leaves
and the leaves feed the buds—bud sites in your case

the plant experiences photosynthesis through those big green fans

my reddest, sweetest tomatoes last year— came from deep within the plant under the leaves—bud sites work the same way except given a chance will make nice long colas that will rise above those FAT fans. I believe those will be the biggest fans and as the plant matures it will display some sativa traits. The leaves will come in a bit narrower. And you can control your lights to mimic the tropics which will bring out the sativa in a hybrid. 10 on 14 off during flower. That is if you like sativa. I made white widow and gelato seeds this way—the plants from those Seeds have pretty much muted the indica completely out. Especially the white widow. It’ll Jack you up 70’s brick weed style.

 

[013]

Looks like the grow bag is sitting on a self watering or bottom watering base… can you confirm?? How about a better pic maybe side shot showing the whole container & plant?

no harm on breaking cotys, they are backup food source for a tiny seedling.

Welcome to the forums at 420 Mag!!

 

[crono]

Those plants are overwatered. Let em dry out until you stick your finger up to the first knuckle and it feels dry. Taking any leaves off those plants will do no good. There’s like 6 to 8 fans on each plant. Here’s how it works….
the human feeds the medium
the medium feeds the roots
the roots feed the leaves
and the leaves feed the buds—bud sites in your case

the plant experiences photosynthesis through those big green fans

my reddest, sweetest tomatoes last year— came from deep within the plant under the leaves—bud sites work the same way except given a chance will make nice long colas that will rise above those FAT fans. I believe those will be the biggest fans and as the plant matures it will display some sativa traits. The leaves will come in a bit narrower. And you can control your lights to mimic the tropics which will bring out the sativa in a hybrid. 10 on 14 off during flower. That is if you like sativa. I made white widow and gelato seeds this way—the plants from those Seeds have pretty much muted the indica completely out. Especially the white widow. It’ll Jack you up 70’s brick weed style.

Thanks for your input - much appreciated.

I did do the knuckle test a couple of times over the course of the 7 day drying period, and it was bone dry. Stuck a skewer into the core of the pot, and it came out bone dry as well - that's when I decided to water her (yesterday).

I might put off trimming any fan leaves for now - just a little confusing with conflicting information

Never heard of the 10/14 cycle to bring out the sativa, but since that's what I'm aiming for, I'll look a bit more into that

Looks like the grow bag is sitting on a self watering or bottom watering base… can you confirm?? How about a better pic maybe side shot showing the whole container & plant?

no harm on breaking cotys, they are backup food source for a tiny seedling.

Welcome to the forums at 420 Mag!!

Thank you for the welcome!

Yes, the pot is sitting on a wicked auto-watering system from ACI, but it is not in use yet, as I don't think the roots are quite there yet (???). Here's some extra pictures of the tent from this morning. The sponges are my temporary humidifiers until I receive the proper one in the mail

She's looking a lot more perky than the last couple of days.

 

[crono]

Sounds good to me!

So, she's looking a lot better now.

Going to hijack my own thread and ask for a little advice concerning ScrOG. What would be the best course of action on this plant?

As you can see above, the tent does not leave a lot of room to grow, and she's a sativa, so I need to start the process very soon.

You suggested trimming some of the fan leaves, but others suggest it would be a bad idea at this stage - so I'm really conflicted about what to do. She has 4 long branches hiding under the big fan leaves and 2 more expanding slowly from the top.

Should I just wait until those 4 branches penetrate and grow above the fan leaves, and then tug those under the netting, or what is advised here?

Would those 4+2 branches end up giving me 6 main colas, or can I expect more if I do the ScrOG correctly?

I really should have tried out some LST earlier, but was a little confused as to when to start, so she ended up with a rigid stem before I could take action.

 

[SmokingWings]

Welcome to the group. A lot of fun people here with interesting and good info so you should be able to enjoy the time you spend on-line and be able to gather information along the way.

I might put off trimming any fan leaves for now - just a little confusing with conflicting information

It may seem a bit confusing but it is not necessarily conflicting information. What you are experiencing is opinions and theories from members who are giving their thoughts on the best way to handle a "plant growing" situation or solve a problem.

A big point that has to be kept in mind is that the rest of the group is not able to go in person to see the plants that come up in the discussions. They have to rely on the photographs and what the person mentions and the type of question being asked.

It kinda ends up being that the gardener has to pick the solution that best fits their situation.

Since you asked I figure it is best to hold off on any leaf trimming as long as possible. As @zigzagman1960 brings up the leaves are important to photosynthesis. A gardener can feed all the nutrients possible and without photosynthesis taking place in the leaves there is not much that the plant will be able to do with what the roots take up. The plant will use photosynthesis to create sugars and then starches which it can use, along with the minerals/nutrients it has absorbed, to grow more leaves, stems, and roots.

If you were to cut off the large 'fan leaves' I figure that you will be removing about 25 to 35% of the plant that is actively using the photosynthesis. The plant growth will then slow down while it concentrates on replacing the lost leaves. We might not notice this slow down but there have been others who have spent enough time watching their plants to say that they notice it happening.

Plus, a healthy plant will produce more sugars and starches than it needs so it stores the excess in the root system (which is a good reason to keep a healthy root mass) and stores a good amount in the leaves.

 

[crono]

Welcome to the group. A lot of fun people here with interesting and good info so you should be able to enjoy the time you spend on-line and be able to gather information along the way.


It may seem a bit confusing but it is not necessarily conflicting information. What you are experiencing is opinions and theories from members who are giving their thoughts on the best way to handle a "plant growing" situation or solve a problem.

A big point that has to be kept in mind is that the rest of the group is not able to go in person to see the plants that come up in the discussions. They have to rely on the photographs and what the person mentions and the type of question being asked.

It kinda ends up being that the gardener has to pick the solution that best fits their situation.

Since you asked I figure it is best to hold off on any leaf trimming as long as possible. As @zigzagman1960 brings up the leaves are important to photosynthesis. A gardener can feed all the nutrients possible and without photosynthesis taking place in the leaves there is not much that the plant will be able to do with what the roots take up. The plant will use photosynthesis to create sugars and then starches which it can use, along with the minerals/nutrients it has absorbed, to grow more leaves, stems, and roots.

If you were to cut off the large 'fan leaves' I figure that you will be removing about 25 to 35% of the plant that is actively using the photosynthesis. The plant growth will then slow down while it concentrates on replacing the lost leaves. We might not notice this slow down but there have been others who have spent enough time watching their plants to say that they notice it happening.

Plus, a healthy plant will produce more sugars and starches than it needs so it stores the excess in the root system (which is a good reason to keep a healthy root mass) and stores a good amount in the leaves.

Sorry, didn't mean to come off as snarky.

I'm somewhat aware of how photosynthesis works, but was only asking/pointing out the conflicting information because I was/am in doubt. I spent some 2-300 hours researching so far, so I am by no means an expert - in fact, I won't claim to know anything about this process - which is why I'm here

I've seen plenty of people strip their ladies naked, but was unsure when or how exactly to do it.

The main reason for me asking is, that I have a very small tent to grow in, and sativas tend to grow tall. So I'm just asking for a few guidelines 'in person' as I can only garner so much from youtube and articles with no step by step pictures.

I understand that members of the group obviously can't see my plant, and have to gauge from the photos I provide. Maybe I naively thought that there was a somewhat cookie-cutter way to handle these early steps

 

[SmokingWings]

Sorry, didn't mean to come off as snarky.

Not at all. The comments about confusion or conflicting advice comes up frequently and the usual reason is that those of us responding to a question are giving what we find has been working for us.

I've seen plenty of people strip their ladies naked, but was unsure when or how exactly to do it.

Yes, we see some of those show up. Sometimes they do to get a structure to the plant because it fits in with their goal at harvest and sometimes ... I am not sure why they do it.

 

[crono]

Not at all. The comments about confusion or conflicting advice comes up frequently and the usual reason is that those of us responding to a question are giving what we find has been working for us.


Yes, we see some of those show up. Sometimes they do to get a structure to the plant because it fits in with their goal at harvest and sometimes ... I am not sure why they do it.

Thank you for clearing that up

With that said, mind if I pick your brain and ask what you would do at this stage if the end goal is to ScrOG this plant?

As mentioned above, I don't really have a lot of room to grow, maybe 70-80cm total, so there is no way I can just let her stretch out (seed supplier wrote 1-2M tall without any training). I was too unsure about LST in the beginning, so all I have done is top her above the 4th node.

My gut tells me I have to do something very soon, if I want her to really spread her wings. I just don't know what exactly

 

[Carcass]

Good morning crono
Here's a link to a training thing I did awhile back- It shows in detail how I train my plants to keep them short and wide. I've grown around 15 plants in my 2'x2'x48" space, and the tallest one was 26" tall, and yielded over ten ounces..You'll see that plant in the training pics...You'll notice that I left the fanleaves on on this one, because they weren't very big, so I was able to work around them..

There are definitely other ways to do it, but this is what works for me-look it over and see what you think..
And best of luck on your grow!

A very special Thank You to @HashGirl for putting this list together:

HashGirl's Summer 2022 Grow Journal

Oops, I forgot about the Magnums. They were harvested on August 17 and trimmed on September 1. I removed a lot of bud rot and when I trimmed, I mixed both plants together for a total yield of 54 grams. Here are the results and the pics: Magnum 1 Days in Veg - 31 Days in Flower - 82 Final...

www.420magazine.com

 

[crono]

Good morning crono
Here's a link to a training thing I did awhile back- It shows in detail how I train my plants to keep them short and wide. I've grown around 15 plants in my 2'x2'x48" space, and the tallest one was 26" tall, and yielded over ten ounces..You'll see that plant in the training pics...You'll notice that I left the fanleaves on on this one, because they weren't very big, so I was able to work around them..

There are definitely other ways to do it, but this is what works for me-look it over and see what you think..
And best of luck on your grow!

A very special Thank You to @HashGirl for putting this list together:

HashGirl's Summer 2022 Grow Journal

Oops, I forgot about the Magnums. They were harvested on August 17 and trimmed on September 1. I removed a lot of bud rot and when I trimmed, I mixed both plants together for a total yield of 54 grams. Here are the results and the pics: Magnum 1 Days in Veg - 31 Days in Flower - 82 Final...

www.420magazine.com

Awesome, thank you - this was exactly the kind of stuff I was looking for!

Will get to reading, thoroughly, right away

 

[zigzagman1960]

@crono here’s a similar situation.

Look how large the lower fans are here and a few weeks later—the colas tower above those old fans and they are still being used for the plants benefit. As you gain more experience you can delve off into defoliation but I would leave those plants be and focus on the basics.

 

[crono]

@crono here’s a similar situation.

Look how large the lower fans are here and a few weeks later—the colas tower above those old fans and they are still being used for the plants benefit. As you gain more experience you can delve off into defoliation but I would leave those plants be and focus on the basics.

Very nice - thank you for sharing those. Helps a lot to have a visual que like that, when I have no idea what things are supposed to look like - even after watching countless videos and reading articles. Somehow it sticks a bit better when getting spoon-fed

Will stick to the basics for sure, but also looking to get some decent yield (hopefully enough to last until the next grow finishes). But I really appreciate your input, and will take it to heart! Thanks again.