Scorpio's Cavalcade Of Horrors With Hempy, Genetics, Perpetual & Much Much More

glad to hear the wife is ok Chris, cars are replaceable, people not so much.

I am no breeding expert, but cannabis breeding sparked my interest in horse breeding years ago. While plants and animals are obviously very different, I think there are some similarities one can use to gain a better understanding of general breeding/genetics. But I don't think looking at humans for breeding examples is productive as there havent been enough documentation/studies or specified breedings.

Looking into any livestock breeding will give you a lot more information as they have been documented and recorded for decades/centuries, especially the europeans, who are years ahead of north America in breeding experience/knowledge.

that being said, breeding is a crap shoot, regardless of what it is, you never know what the results might be.

one thing that's generally accepted amongst horse breeders' is that the mare is usually responsible for 80% of the foals genetic make up. That explains why Dutch/German/France etc, have produced the majority of the Olympic level horses ridden by every major country from canada and usa to saudi arabia and china. They hold the mares bloodlines, some family farms go back 2-300 years.

to me, a strong mare line is representative of a strain such as the original Cinderella 99. Everyone used it to breed to as it was stable, and from what I have read/come across info wise, no matter what male is used, the offspring expressed more of the mothers traits. this would, to me, make chris' observations in line with the general rule of 80% comes from the mom.

I think where cannabis breeding is severely lacking is coming from the input/selections people are making with regards to males.

why do I think this? Taking it back to what I am familiar with, finding a stallion who makes a distinct impression upon his offspring, regardless of the mother lines, is what every breeder hopes to find.

But raising/training stallions is expensive and a risk, many put 4-5years into colts/stallions of remarkable bloodlines and then their off spring dont come close to the quality that they should have produced.

the world famous stallions are the ones that the breeder, or owner, saw something special in where many would have given up. these stallions pass on their traits, athletic ability, smarts, physique, regardless of the mare lines.

bringing that back to our cannabis scene, many breeders don't do any, or very little, male selection. I know some do, but I feel like over the years this has been overlooked by most, and again doesn't help that prohibition hasn't provided breeders with the space/ability to hunt for a good male, without ruining their crops. feminized seeds havent really helped the case either, and in my opinion, can lack some of the quality that regular seeds do.

I think the future of producing quality cannabis is going to come from breeders abilities to hunt for the strong males that will pass on and enhance the qualities of the females that they already have.

like van said, you would need to grow out thousands of plants. But I am of the opinion that the true power of our plants is still hidden due to the lack of quality breeding/selections in preserving the male genetics. Finding that perfect male/female combo could throw out the most potent cannabis seen to date.

anyways... I didn't mean to type this much... Sorry folks... Genetics just intrigue me. It's a gamble and rolling the dice is addictive.

:passitleft:
Fantastic info my friend

Ya human and plants didn't coralate to me either

I worked at nurseries, plants, as a kid and saw grafting and stuff and always intreaged me

The horse comparison makes sense.
I've made and grown 6 of my own strains, well made more but just grown 6 so far. I can really see the mothers traits and not so much the father's

I'll be researching this aot more

Feel free to chime in with a y small or LARGE comments, I'm very interested in learning
 
ya I have lots to learn, grafting and such is a whole other avenue I haven't gone down yet lol

I think the horse comparison works for sure, but in terms of breeding, one should look into the bovine/swine/poultry industries as they have done a lot more inbreeding, line breeding, etc. And would probably relate more closely with what we are trying to achieve with our plants.
 
I think animals have a lot more chromosomes than plants which makes breeding them a lot more variable. There is a ton of info on breeding orchids and other exotic plants, that I think would more directly apply.

I’ve done a lot of reading on breeding and what I’ve figured out is the best breeders find good males only by growing out lots of their offspring. They keep the males alive as “mother” (father?) plants in veg under 24/0 lighting and take clones to flower and breed with later after they’ve seen the offspring.

Once they find a really good male they cross it with clones of known mother plants and chart all the common characteristics and differences of the offspring. On some other sites they regularly give these seeds away for testing. I think that’s basically the only way to really tell what each unique male provides to the gene pool. I think a lot of breeders haved prized males that they value much more than female plants. I’ve even seen some prized male clones offered for sale for $5k each.
:passitleft:
 
Not trying to be a smart ass...I actually remembered some H.S biology that was in the dark recesses of my cobweb covered memory.
Nice

Biology was to long ago for me ...lol
 
I think animals have a lot more chromosomes than plants which makes breeding them a lot more variable. There is a ton of info on breeding orchids and other exotic plants, that I think would more directly apply.

I’ve done a lot of reading on breeding and what I’ve figured out is the best breeders find good males only by growing out lots of their offspring. They keep the males alive as “mother” (father?) plants in veg under 24/0 lighting and take clones to flower and breed with later after they’ve seen the offspring.

Once they find a really good male they cross it with clones of known mother plants and chart all the common characteristics and differences of the offspring. On some other sites they regularly give these seeds away for testing. I think that’s basically the only way to really tell what each unique male provides to the gene pool. I think a lot of breeders haved prized males that they value much more than female plants. I’ve even seen some prized male clones offered for sale for $5k each.
:passitleft:

huh... I thought plants, generally, had more... I'll have to do some googling later... Just get way more phenotypes of plants than you would breeds of chickens.... Also I think it would be better to look at crop studies, tomatoes or peppers, instead of exotic flowers, in terms of yields, flavors, colour.... But again I am no expert, I just was referring to being able to correlate data they have found through animal breeding practices and using the methods to breed and produce better cannabis.

the males is spot on and what I figured would be the case of the high end breeders.... Would have been tough to keep males and grow out offspring during prohibition etc... But laws loosening makes these things possible.

I think the males will always be more highly prized, pheno hunting them is time consuming and has very little reward... But if you happened to have some old seed stock of some classics, finding the best males could possibly become a whole new revenue.... The first ever cannabis stud book, Selling male pollen and clones, preserving male genetics for the future lol
 
Oh please don't mistaken my example of people as being indicative of being the same as plants, I was simply stating that there is a lot of variety and we don't generally the whys. Despite what some people might think, 99% of the population doesn't have a clue as to the why's or how's of dominant and recessive traits and genes.

In my mind, with only 10 chromosomes from each parent, it really boils down to the dominant and recessive genes and the pheno types. I have wanted to delve more into the similar or varying traits in different phenos. Once you are dealing with IBLs, its pretty easy to see where or how things happen and what the dominant and recessive genes are. But when are dealing with 4, 6 or 8 way hybrids that were never stabilized down to the IBL level, there is just no way of guessing what you are going to get. So many genetic possibilities with all those different strains in there !

I would need to see some scientific proof to buy off on a single parent being responsible for that high of a %. Not saying it isn't so but with a simple understanding of chromosomes and dominant and recessive genes that just doesn't seem likely. I mean it doesn't matter one bit what color the mom is if the Dad's chromosome is the dominant one in the color determination. Its the same with all other genetic possibilities. Really has nothing to do with the sex of the parent. No scientific evidence has ever shown a recessive trait or gene of a female stomping out a dominant trait of a male or vice verse simply because of sex. The exceptions are very rare, think albinos or some other unusual anomaly.

Complicated complicated stuff, but damn I love it!!
 
huh... I thought plants, generally, had more.
I’m pretty sure I got a D in the only biology class I ever took, which was almost 30 years ago, so I only know what I’ve read recently which is mostly about cannabis breeding. But I’m pretty sure generally plants have less chromosomes than animals although I’m sure there are examples of plants with more and animals with less.

I assume (perhaps wrongly) that having phenotypes at all is a sign that breeding plants is less variable than animals. For instance because there is so much individual variances there is no “Secretariat” phenotype that horse breeders look for, just individual traits. Lol makes me wonder how many children my mom would have to have to get another me?

I might just be high but I also think it goes beyond dominant and recessive genes because of the combinations of genes that together contribute to the overall plants make up. For instance there may be a single gene that makes a plant produce less chlorophyll but if the plant also has a gene that makes it produce more anthocyanins it will turn purple. If it doesn’t it will just be a lighter shade of green.

I’m unusually high and tired at the moment so not sure that makes sense but it does to me at the moment. It’s interesting stuff to think about, I know I have my prized male waiting for me to grow out some more offspring to see if it’s worth breeding again.
:passitleft:
 
Cannabis has 10 sets of chromosomes. Thats it....but even then you can see the genetics diversity achievable from only 10 sets of chromosomes. Then start factoring in how the other factors can influence those genes, from environment to nutrition in soil. Changing those can change how those chromosomes express themselves in the plant.
 
I've been looking a bit, but need more of the scientific research on cannabis I haven't found yet

Fun fun fun
 
Ya.....it's all a crap shoot...lol

My brain is fried from reading. Interesting stuff for sure

I guess my noticable traits areuck of the draw more than anything. Both DDA crosses have the fruity Grapey smell
I do hope the DDA x ACDC has a good CBD level and both have the DDA high that is tied to it.

Fun fun fun
 
haha yeah, breeding comes down to luck... mother nature working in your favour... that's all there is to it, do our best to manage the situation and let it take their course.

For instance because there is so much individual variances there is no “Secretariat” phenotype that horse breeders look for, just individual traits

this is absolutely true in most respects, but there are certain breeders who have found a magical combination and they have bred the same pair a number of times and all the resulting offspring have been almost identical in their traits and slight difference in appearance.

it's a crap shoot.
 
Color Watch 2018 continues

I'd say the DDA x ACDC is getting close, I'll try and check trics soon
Color isn't as strong now as the Daddy's Devil, DDA x GDP, but still very noticeable

Smell is insanely Grapey and fruity




Purple Pupil Eater is still just hiding in the back doing her stuffs



Candida is looking incredible, the frost is strong in this one,
Lots of hairs still but will keep an eye on her also to be sure and pull early, not late, for some killer CBD




DTF is looking AMAZEBALLS!!!
Smell is very sweet, and she is packing on the frost big-time. Buds are densing up nicely as well
Realllllllllllly excited for this girl



Daddy's Devil is really strutting her colors
She is very Grapey smelling as well, nice dense buds. I'll probably let her go longer than the CBD strains for sure, see if we can get that great combo of DDA and GDP buzz

 
Can you use that THC/CBD test kit you have on wet flowers? Just wondering if it might be a good way to determine when to harvest to get maximum CBD.
:passitleft:
Hmmmmmmmmm

Well it can be used with decarbed and not decarbed flower
Damn you @DrDoob , now ya got me thinking

Lol
 
Serves you right I was up all night reading that book you reminded me about. :laugh:

I wonder though, you think that testing kit is even accurate enough to show day to day differences?
Not day to day, no

But say I tested today, and in a week, I bet if I got solid results, meaning the test works, you could see the difference

Question is on fresh material. I'd probably decarbed it if I tried it
 
Back
Top Bottom